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Rogue Change PDF and Discussion.

By Ekmidenisi - MEMBER - February 15, 2013, 18:07:31
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The document is only in French right now.

A "Class Revamp: Rogue and Enutrof" thread was posted on the French and EN forums, but Troyle didn't include an English version of the document saying to wait for the patch notes for more details, so I'm not sure if there will be one this time.

I expect we'll also get the revamp thread from SE later today. happy If not, soon! tongue

Edit: Just so nobody missed it, I quoted Sabi's post below.
SE-Sabi|2013-02-15 18:43:02
I will pin this thread and would like to propose the following template when sharing your feedback about a particular spell, as well as confirming the document itself, which will be updated in this post as soon as translated:

Name of spell #1:
-explanation of the issue.
-proposed solution to the issue (if any).

Name of spell #2:
-explanation of the issue.
-proposed solution to the issue (if any).

As always, well targeted and resumed information is preferable compared to any huge stones that would take a lot of time to read and which we may not get as much valuable information from.et that prevent you from discussing this beyond within the General Discussion or Class forums).

Updated Class Rebalancing Proposal 02/15/13

Grou, WAKFU Game Designer, has put together a document which goes over the latest up-coming rebalancing efforts for the Rogue class.

You may review this document in a PDF file format for your convenience. This document is in French, currently in the process to be translated and includes the proposed changes to their spells and abilities.

Thanks for your feedback and we look forward to seeing what you have to share!
 
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Score : 8302

Seems they're changing "Air master" into "Initiative master" and making it convert damage to all elements instead of air. But it has a cap of +140% damage.

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Score : 21628

haut

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Score : 9899

Ah Ekmidenisi! you beat me to it. biggrin

But that is a good thing, so I will pin this thread and would like to propose the following template when sharing your feedback about a particular spell, as well as confirming the document itself, which will be updated in this post as soon as translated:

Template

Name of spell #1:
-explanation of the issue.
-proposed solution to the issue (if any).

Name of spell #2:
-explanation of the issue.
-proposed solution to the issue (if any).

As always, well targeted and resumed information is preferable compared to any huge stones that would take a lot of time to read and which we may not get as much valuable information from.et that prevent you from discussing this beyond within the General Discussion or Class forums).

Updated Class Rebalancing Proposal 02/15/13

Grou, WAKFU Game Designer, has put together a document which goes over the latest up-coming rebalancing efforts for the Rogue class.

You may review this document in a PDF file format for your convenience. This document is in French, currently in the process to be translated and includes the proposed changes to their spells and abilities.

Thanks for your feedback and we look forward to seeing what you have to share!
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Score : 21628

thats what 360 init? plenty of room

makes an init rogue the most hybrid-able class in game, not counting a single stasis spell fogger.

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Score : 8302
BrainInAJar|2013-02-15 18:45:12
thats what 360 init? plenty of room

makes an init rogue the most hybrid-able class in game, not counting a single stasis spell fogger.
it's more like 460 init that you get close to 140% actually. Since It converts 30% of your init into damage. You'd still get 108 from 360 init though.

Even with 250 init it'd give you more general damage than powerful shooting does now, hitting a target 8 spaces away.
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Score : 21628

and with a reduction to resistance on piercingbiggrin

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Score : 393

So basicly im reading that lycho is about to get alot stronger :/

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Score : 21628

change to hotwire.... sick for pulsar rogue

10ap/3mp becomes 20ap/0mp for a pulsar one turn, 0ap/6mp for escape the next (or a weaker pulsar)

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Score : 286

OMG this propssed changes are just friggen awesome.. if not they can be quite OP.. Surprise shot now +50% damge? and that skill that doubles your AP or MP.. escape or attack mode? I think these changes really live up to the playstyle of rogues as being versatile (jack of all trades).

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Score : 1811

I dunno about any other rogues but i run around playin 9/6 piercing/pulsar build for pve and 10/5 for Ub's......and these changes.....i'm gonna have to change my pants everytime after i read them....

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Score : 286

If they apply this changes as is, they probably gonna need to nerf us again in a week.. (surprise shot dealing 50% and triggering 40% of the time in a double AP turn is like madness haha.)

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kendeekenken|2013-02-15 21:05:53
If they apply this changes as is, they probably gonna need to nerf us again in a week.. (surprise shot dealing 50% and triggering 40% of the time in a double AP turn is like madness haha.)
yeah when rogues start one turning peeps in pvp you know they are doomed.
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don't forget piercing is linear now smile

so don't cream yourselves just yet.

but that air buff holy *** am I happy

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Score : 586

I love the consolidation of passives into Bomber Fan. It also seems to now buff allies to take reduced bomb damage and gives the Rogue a larger reduction in damage taken... Sounds good to me.

"Bomb Wall" under Bomber Fan: This seems to be firewall, and implies that we finally know how much damage firewall does. 4 (lvl 0) to 54 (lvl 100). Sadly I guess Megabomb won't increase that damage (probably for the best... If not, I'd be hitting ~400/cell/wall). I feel less OP with that info.

Barbed Fire: That damage sucks for the cost. Bad. But I see it's now incorporating Pyrotechnics into itself, though it's also gained a 2/target limit. Unfortunate, as it was my go-to spell to kill off weaklings.

0AP Magnetic Claw is awesome, however, not sure how I feel about the limitations on 2 casts per turn and 1 per target. I'd potentially prefer it to have a cost but a higher limit... we'll see how it works.

Air also seems much more viable now. Great to stack -Earth on Whispereds too.

Earth got a few buffs here and there. I really dislike Pulsar though, it's just too inferior to Piercing in terms of damage for it to seem useful, except to unload extra AP/MP... and a WP to do that is not cheap. Take off the WP (maybe with a damage nerf) or boost the damage?

Megabomb: Wow. This will hurt. And -MP, not bad at all. I do not mourn the loss of Blaze.

"Smoke"... What? I'm understanding it as immunity for 1 turn to any ranged damage over 7 cells away. Not sure if I am understanding this right. Does it make the Rogue's shots blind opponents? Really unsure what this is.

--------------------------

Overall a good job at making Air (and Earth? Need better translation to be sure) more viable without hurting Fire too badly and consolidating our specialties so we have less duplicate-esque skills. I'll have to try for a set for each element when I respec post-update.

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Score : 1440

From the English sort-of-translation:

fire

Barbed Fire

  • 2AP changed to 3AP1MP
  • still adds 1 charge to bombs
  • damage stays the same even though cost is increased
  • takes the effect of Pyrotechnics by teleporting enemies around bombs they are already standing near?
Burning Bomb
  • damage nerf from 65 at lvl100 to 60
  • chance to inflict 'Burning' increased from 30% at lvl100 to 66%
  • something about increased damage if more than one bomb detonates at a time?
Mega Bomb
  • replaces Blaze
  • 5AP1MP
  • 1-4 range (modifiable like most other fire spells)
  • 6 (lvl1) - 97 (lvl100) damage
  • 5 charges (to match its 5AP cost)
  • circle of 2 space area of effect (like Wrath for Iop, extra four spaces over normal bombs)
  • 100% chance to cause -1MP on detonation (instead of having a scaled success rate to spell level)
Blinding Bomb
  • chance to inflict 'Blinding' changed from 5%(lvl1) - 15%(lvl100) to 10%(lvl1) - 100%(lvl100) to inflict "Disoriented" (+1 lvl, causes -1range per lvl; ), on crit has a second chance to proc {this has been edited because when I went to translate it said "Confusion" which also causes range loss, then I went to check the Rogue and Enutrof revamp thread in general which clarified the difference}
Flaming Claw
  • changed from 5AP1WP to 3AP
  • damage changed from 7(lvl1) - 91(lvl100) to 3(lvl1) - 38(lvl100)
  • 1 use per target (assumably per turn as well)
  • still 1-4 range
  • linear requirement removed?
  • when targeting an ally (player) or a bomb, gets closer by 2 spaces

Flaming Claw looks a lot better, Blaze has been removed for a bomb that looks a lot like the bomb I suggested not too long ago for earth, and Barbed Fire has absorbed Pyrotechnics. If the new bomb becomes part of a bomb wall, does its glyph cover the area of effect its explosion does or the same square as the other two? With enough mechanics that could get pretty hectic.

:wind:

Quick/Slap Shot
  • AP cost changed from 2 to 1
  • damage changed from 2(28) per hit to 1(14) per hit (basically this attack becomes a crit magnet from constant usage)
  • air resist loss on crit changed from -5(20) to always -10, maximum of -60%

Roguery
  • changed to always inflict 'Confusion' on crit instead of scaled to level

Boomerang Dagger
  • seems to be unchanged

Between?/Barbecued Ribs
  • seems to be unchanged

Longsword
  • seems to be unchanged


It looks like their main goal was to make Slap Shot a crit magnet kind of like Flurry for Iop, but instead of giving you damage it causes resist loss so your allies can help you with the beat down. Its damage is still the same for the cost but it now has double the chance to crit since you can use it twice as often. Crits, crits everywhere.

earth

Machine Gun
  • damage buff from 2(22) to 2(24)
Piercing Shot
  • range buff from 2-4 to 2-6
  • becomes linear like Pulsar currently is

Cross Fire
  • damage buff from 3(47) to 3(50)

Blam
  • cost reduced from 4AP1MP to just 4AP
  • damage nerf from 5(68) to 4(56)
  • modifiable range
  • linear (if you have increased range, otherwise the base range is still 1)

Pulsar
  • seems to have its linear requirement removed
  • damage buff from 1(12) per AP and MP to 1(13) per AP and MP
The linear requirement switches from Pulsar to Piercing, Blam can be ranged instead of a shotgun, and slight damage buffs for everyone else. The damage buffs for Machine and Cross are kind of nice but chances are people are still going to stick to Piercing, Pulsar, and maybe Blam.

neutral{active}

Unsheather (replaces Hotwire)
  • cost changed from 1WP at all ranks to 3AP1WP to 1WP at max level
  • one use per turn
  • +5(50)% damage effect removed
  • "Defourailleur" state for the turn used, "Slump" state for the next turn
  • "Defourailleur" state: prevents use of earth spells but doubles your AP (including temporary AP from detonated bombs, friendly Xelors, etc.) but makes you lose all your MP; delays damage dealt during this turn until it ends and reduces damage dealt unless you rank it up (0% if unranked, 100% max)?
  • "Slump" state: still prevents use of earth spells but does the opposite of "Defourailleur"; doubles MP but removes all AP?

Detonator {this has become 'Remote Control' which is essentially the same thing but has a slightly different name to give it a broader meaning instead of specifically working as a detonator for bombs}
  • cost changed from 1AP at all ranks to 2AP1MP unranked and 1AP maxed
  • area of effect changed from 1 space to a cross of 1 space (Blinding Arrow, the area of effect Blaze currently has when targeting a bomb though Blaze is being removed with this set of updates)
  • when your Boombot is in the Detonator area of effect, turns it towards the center space (now we can turn our Boombots outside of its own turn)

Magnetic Claw/Grapple Loving?
  • cost change from 4(2 at max) to 5(0 at max)
  • max range nerf at max level from 1-7 to 1-6
  • when used on an ally pulls them 1 space closer (like the Dofus version of this spell)
  • neutral damage removed
  • 1 use per target and up to 2 uses per turn

Boombot
  • health changed from a specific amount to be based on max health of the user, 30% at max level
  • even though it already does this passively, now has "Immunity Explosions" which makes the Boombot immune to bombs detonated from its owner
  • instead of having the same three spells at all ranks it starts with only 'Push' (pushes the bomb 2 spaces), learns "Draws" at lvl2, learns "Chope" at lvl4, learns "Barbrule"/Barbed Fire at lvl6, learns Detonator at lvl8
  • New spell set for Boombot:
    • Push: 2AP, pushes bomb 2 spaces (unchanged)
    • Attracts: 2AP, attracts a bomb 3 spaces, up to 2 uses per turn?
    • Barbrule/Barbed Fire: 2AP, I have no idea what it says
    • Chope: 2AP, 1 range, Boombot picks up the bomb and can throw it (like Magetic Claw)
    • Detonator: seems to work as what the Rogue has but only 1-4 range
    • Extender: seems to work the same

Smoke (replaces Pyrotechnics)
  • 5AP1WP unranked, 1WP max level
  • cast on self
  • "Smoke" state for the turn used: immune to damage inflicted by someone 7 or more spaces away, minimum distance lowered by 1 with every rank (lvl5 'Smoke' at max level, so with this spell maxed you can be immune to attacks from characters which are not at least 2 spaces close to you
  • the next turn inflicts -4 range?/"PO" to yourself

Since the effects of Pyrotechnics were taken over by the fire spell which manages bomb charges it was replaced with a good anti-range ability. Boombot looks a lot better especially if its health changes from being based on the spell rank to whatever your health is. Detonator is vastly improved to help earth builds that use its Extender effect and fire builds who already use it to chip down charges for multiple bombs at a time clustered together. Magnetic Claw can be used to pull allies away from danger and whatever replaced Hotwire seems like a great air spell to go crazy with attacks then run to another country.

neutral{passive}

Bomber Fan
  • absorbs the AP gain from bomb detonations that used to be Rogue Master (which also gave initiative)
  • bomb damage and resistance stays the same, but the resistance part is changed (at lvl10+ you only take half damage from your own bombs) to only help your allies (helps against enemies who move your allies into your bomb wall or if they feel like wading around in it)
  • bomb wall is changed so they have to be right next to each other to form the wall unless Bomber Fan is max level (under lvl10 bomb walls may not be formed at all)

Surprise Shot
  • still 2(40)% chance to proc, but damage increase from 30% to 50%

Initiator (replaces Air Master)
  • still gets damage from your initiative (30% of your initiative), max of +140% damage from this effect, but now contributes to all damage types instead of only air

Runaway/Fugitive
  • seems to be unchanged

Rogue Master (the thing that currently gives +mechanics and initiative)
  • still gives +2(40) initiative
  • chance to regain AP spent on air attacks per AP spent: 0(10)% for regular air attacks, 1(30)% on air crits (the more AP you spend at a time, each AP spent has a chance to proc the AP regain)

It looks like we no longer get mechanics from passives (Rogue Master), the passive which gained damage from initiative now contributes to all elements so earth and fire can now benefit from it, and the new Rogue Master is like a secondary version of critical hits where you can regain AP instead of simply dealing more damage like a simple Iop.
If the passives stay this way and nothing gives mechanics it looks like the 13 mechanics setup I was eyeballing a couple days ago can only be 10 mechanics, but that would still be a stupidly high amount of bombs especially combined with the 5AP one of its bomb wall glyph matches its detonation area. But what are fire Rogues supposed to do without +mechanic equipment?
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Score : 21628

wait if they don't get mechanics how does it work? you have to wait till you can wear mechanics gear?

super lame. fire rogue is dead.

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Score : 8302
BrainInAJar|2013-02-15 23:22:31
wait if they don't get mechanics how does it work? you have to wait till you can wear mechanics gear?

super lame. fire rogue is dead.

Incidentally they did the same thing with the Osamodas passives. You don't get leadership anymore so you have to customize gear for leadership instead. I think they ended up treating +mechanics and leadership the same way.

They definitely need to start adding low level gear that can use runes then. And maybe make +leadership and mechanics runes have 2 of their stat from the beginning so you can get them early on.
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Score : 2020

When are they going to release 3 and 4 mech runes

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