FR EN ES PT
Browse forums 
Ankama Trackers

A Fistful Of Combo (Rogue changes we got, post-1.69)

By Kakenshu - MEMBER - September 30, 2020, 20:41:12

This thread is a discussion of changes to the Rogue class published to the live server. I want to discuss play styles with my fellow Rogues based on what we have in the game, excluding hopes and dreams for what we want to have--save that for the sequel. We might learn new tricks from each other. These may not be very viable, but I find them interesting. 

Pulsar has really high damage for such a low cost. If you use it when you're about to end your turn, either on a melee build to shotgun or at a distance for a Scope build, Escapist lets you teleport away. Unfortunately, bombs are merciless when it comes to making room for passives that don't enhance your bombs, so this is mostly for the off-bomber builds.

Speaking of off-bomber Rogue, Wakfu Connection can be used for any Rogue build that's at least half earth or air, but is most likely to be used on the classic sandstorm (air/earth) off-bomber builds that only throw out bombs to use for utility (Evanescence jumping, blocking enemy movement path). Wakfu Connection barely overtakes Carnage's +15% final damage bonus for the classic Slap Shot-BBQ-BBQ-Slap Shot if you either started your turn with Surprise Shot or use Boot (both count as Connection activations for Wakfu Connection) to kick your utility bomb out of your way and/or into the way of the enemy. 

Is Fugitive good now? Powder Wall & Pyrotechnist builds seem to get the most out of it, along with the obvious Bomber Fan (+5 max Combo level) and Ka-Boom (natural Combo accumulation of +5 -> +8) to get a 20 Combo bomb at the start of your third turn. 

Fugitive on a Powder Wall build would likely also carry Dynamite and possibly Scope. Fugitive, Pyrotechnist, Ka-Boom, and Bomber Fan optimize your Combo accumulation and Powder Wall glyph damage. Scope would only be needed on this build if your team doesn't have a distance attacker to trigger the cluster of bombs set up by your Cross Fire and Boot after deploying your Powder Wall.

Evolved Gadgets and Explobomb are both for the off-bombers. Boomerang Dagger is a core spell for a critical mastery Rogue build, whether you're a high crit chance or low crit chance build. The only reason I would want to use Evolved Gadgets is on an off-bomber build that doesn't bother using bombs for detonating at all.

Scope and Dynamite make the most of Blunderbuss and Pulsar for shooting your own bombs to detonate. Cross Fire is mandatory for getting your bombs in position, dragging them from across the board where enemies don't bother attacking them to instead go after your Rogue. 

Speaking of Scope, the melee-conversion effect has an implicit effect: you keep the distance mastery you already had. Distance mastery from strength and enchantment combined with melee mastery from strength and enchantment means you can potentially squeeze a little more cumulative mastery over non-Scope builds.

Machine Gun can help compensate for low range on melee builds (especially with Ka-Boom) to follow up with Detonation/Badabang. If you have Jackpot, follow this up immediately with a bomb (preferably fire or air) to get the 2AP discount and +150 resist for this bomb. Machine Gun again followed with the earth bomb which benefits from the range buff. If you also use Wakfu Connection, at this point you've performed three Connections and spent between 10 (Detonation, air bomb) to 14 AP (Badabang, fire bomb) to summon two bombs (one with +150 resist), pushed yourself a max total of 4 spaces with Machine Gun, and generated +15% final damage during your next turn due to Wakfu Connection. 

Rogue Master's Longsword can copy Jackpot's effect of discounting the cost of your next bomb summoned by 2AP and giving it +150 resist. When Boombot uses Reconversion on a bomb summoned with Jackpot's effect, the copied bomb will also copy the buffed resistance. 

Rogue Master's Longsword is able to copy the Connection effect from Surprise Shot, but you have to deal damage to a linear target while you have the Connection from Surprise Shot in order for the effect to apply. If you don't successfully use the buff from Surprise Shot to deal damage, Longsword will copy the Connection but won't apply its effects.

I'll update this if I come up with more. 

2 0
Reply
Reactions 25
Score : 8170

One of the things that I really liked about the rework is that now you can take advantage of the bombs in more scenarios:
.

  • You can just throw them all at the enemy while having Dynamite equipped to make them hurt themselves whenever they destroy them. AND EVEN IF THEY DON'T GET HIT by the explosion you still get that sweet CH% and CH Mastery boost from Explobomb which is great.
  • Pulsar got a lot less rigid and interesting now. I don't know if the devs missed it or it is intended but the fact that you don't actually need to have MPs to use it is pretty peculiar. It just consumes your MP IF you happen to have some left, but you can always shot it with 0.
  • As an off-bomber and mostly leaned towards melee damage with the daggers, Jackpot is becoming one of my favorite passive spells. The fact that you can reduce the AP cost of the air bomb to 0 every turn is fantastic
  • I like how Explobomb, Escapist and Bomber Fan have a great synergy. By making your bombs even more fragile you ensure that they will get OHKO by the enemy, which will keep your CH% & CHM buff constantly active, you won't need to worry about detonating it the next turn so you don't get teleported back to the enemy and improves Escapist by leaving a "gift" to the enemy before TPing away. It remembers me to a move in pokemon called Parting Shot which is great.
  • The new Rogue has a lot of synergy with the Rune Yeah (a rune that refunds 2 AP on even turns and makes you los 2 on odd turns). Since the mobility and utility spells of the class are very cheap: Evanescence 2AP/1WP, Ruse 2AP/1WP, Boombot 2AP/1WP, Magnet 2WP, Smoke Bombs 1 WP, you can safely get 2 AP back from said spells on Even Turns removing their AP costs. If you cast Smoke Bombs, just because, you can get 2 APs for free. If you add sublimations such as Back and Save it can be improved even more. Also, fun fact: Evanescence and Smoke Bombs have a CD of 2 turns which fits perfectly with the Rune's effect.

Good rework overall!

P.S: Nice SteamWorld reference on the title 
1 0
Reply
Score : 1474

Pulsar let you use it with any amount of remaining MP before. The gimmick was using it at the start of your turn before moving or casting any spells to deal doubled damage (36->72 @lv100), but the cooldown increases from 1turn to 2turns. Pulsar worked decently with Claw before 1.69 for grappling away. Escapist fulfills some of what Claw used to. New Pulsar is a lot more reliable and consistent.

I enjoyed using Save and Return during the beta test to store leftover AP after Pulsar and restart my turn's worth of AP after detonating a cluster. Directives and Length seemed to work for detonations while linear to the target(s). Steadfast worked for a distance anti-crit build without Evolved Gadgets or Explobomb, filling out passive slots with bomb upgrades.

I didn't get to test Brutality during the last few days of the beta test after Scope was fixed. I heard Brutality was changed from mastery conversion to applying final damage, which might be very good for a Scope-Dynamite area build to gain even more raw power as a medium range damage dealer in addition to bombs.

0 0
Score : 254

My build looks something like this. Distance and crit mastery earth and fire with evolved gadgets, and dynamite passive.

With twelve ap. You can throw a fire bomb, an air bomb, Throw these bombs so they are on the corner of the enemy.

The boomerang pulsar hitting bombs and enemy with both attacks. Blowing up the bombs.

This is a distance only build. Because I will also be running piercing shot, carbine and execute.

This will be a every turn consistent combo. For every turn sustained damage. You can even run badabang, and elemental bombs. Along with the passive that gives additional resistant to your bomb after casting badabang.

You ideally would want to badabang your ally, and throw a bomb. Then each turn before that bomb maxes out, you can boomerang-boomerang. Boomerang, piercing shot, etc.

Once that bomb is maxed out. You go to your bread and butter combo but instead of throwing an air bomb, you would replace that two ap cost by booting your full combo bomb next to the enemy, or magnet. Then boomerang-pulsar.

By going full crit mastery, this works really well with boomerang, but also the sublimation that gives half your crit mastery converts to elemental mastery. Making both bombs and boomerang combos much stronger.

1 0
Reply
Score : 1474

Do you carry Reinforced Tunic with Dynamite? Traditionally, Reinforced Tunic is a necessity for keeping your bombs alive long enough to cook Combo, but Scope Rogue can leave bombs far away where enemies won't usually bother attacking it. You can Cross Fire your bombs into position later, though it might take a couple shots to fully drag your bombs depending on how big the board is.

0 0
Score : 2
Along with the passive that gives additional resistant to your bomb after casting badabang.
You ideally would want to badabang your ally, and throw a bomb.

That's really cool actually! Although the passive (Jackpot) description says otherwise, it does work when casting badabang on an ally instead of a bomb. it might be a good way to keep bombs alive in a bomber/support build too.
0 0
Reply
Score : 254

 

Kakenshu|2020-10-02 15:08:06
Do you carry Reinforced Tunic with Dynamite? Traditionally, Reinforced Tunic is a necessity for keeping your bombs alive long enough to cook Combo, but Scope Rogue can leave bombs far away where enemies won't usually bother attacking it. You can Cross Fire your bombs into position later, though it might take a couple shots to fully drag your bombs depending on how big the board is.

reinforced tunic actually hurts this build. you only want ONE bomb to stay alive for multiple turns. this build is for constant sustained damage.

you need to throw one bomb and forget it. but every other bomb, you need to beable to kill with your boomerang pulsar combo the turn you throw them.
1 0
Reply
Score : 1474

I figured Reinforced Tunic wouldn't be used for the build. I was trying it out during the beta test and found I preferred leaving bombs seemingly scattered at random, but they're positioned in optimal Cross Fire lanes. Cross Fire makes Rogue pretty good in large empty boards with no terrain, despite Cross Fire being obnoxious to aim.

I prefer the new Blunderbuss before Pulsar for a Dynamite-Scope build. The first Blunderbuss shouldn't kill your bomb. If you shoot your second Blunderbuss and it kills your bombs, Connection from the first Blunderbuss applies to each detonated bomb and the damage from the second Blunderbuss. If the second Blunderbuss doesn't kill any bombs, follow up with Pulsar. If Pulsar kills your bomb, Pulsar gets the Connection from your second Blunderbuss as well as each Dynamite-triggered bomb.

0 0
Score : 851

I'm still rockin the classic bomb build with Excess + Brutality. The usual detonation every two turns(turn 2,4,6..). Fugitive really helps with the damage, the +4 combo is much better on exploding semi cooked bombs.

Two disadvantages though: abysmal range (can't utilize magnet real well) and brutality nerf.

P.S: Brutality doesn't work with scope passive

1 0
Reply
Score : 2

I often have some troubles finishing my AP's in this mode without Boot as an AP sink. How do you manage that? and how does it compare with pre-change bomber for you?

0 0
Score : 1474

The following are changes to Rogue I've noticed since the hotfix 1.69.2 (October 8). Some of these changes may have occurred earlier without my realizing. 

The Connection effect from Jackpot requires that the target of Detonation/Badabang is your bomb. Pairing the two passive spells Jackpot and Minesweeper together to cast Badabang on an ally is no longer an available strategy. 

Machine Gun no longer has friendly fire. 

The base health of bombs was changed from 25% of your max HP, to 20% of your max HP.

0 0
Reply
Score : 254

Double blunderbuss would be optional on turns with bombs having already grown.

Do you know if dynamite activated on multiple bombs if you destroy them at the same time?

The combo I was talking about, is an every turn combo.

12ap. Firebomb-airbomb. On an opponent on the corner of them. Boomerang, pulsar.

Every turn you would be hitting one or multiple enemies with 2 level 10 bombs a boomerang and a critical pulsar.

1 0
Reply
Score : 1474

If the bombs are destroyed by damage without overlapping they would each receive the 10 Combo from Dynamite. My issue with how Dynamite works is trying to get the Combo from Dynamite to apply to multiple bombs which would detonate together, two bombs of the same element to mutually benefit from each other's +10 Combo. 

Area damage applies to each space in the area one at a time. If your bomb on a space in the area is destroyed due to damage, Dynamite triggers its +10 Combo and forced detonation effects before the next space of the area is damaged. The forced detonation causes chain reaction, meaning that the detonation triggered by Dynamite occurs between the bomb that gets killed and when your next bomb would be damaged. Any of your bombs that aren't chain reacted with the first bomb would remain and gain their own +10 Combo, but miss out on the stacking of Combo among bombs of the same element which chain react together.

Boomerang Dagger is Rogue's only spell capable of detonating two separate clusters with Dynamite to give 10 Combo to each, as long as the two clusters don't overlap to chain react as one cluster. Scope Rogue capitalizes on this more than a melee build would be able to, as Boomerang Dagger at 2 range means blowing yourself up with at least one bomb from each of those two clusters.

Here's an example setup:

Ideally you would only want one bomb from each cluster in the area of Boomerang Dagger and for those bombs to be either freshly summoned or from your previous turn, but this is one way to get all six bombs to hit the target in the middle.
2 0
Score : -2768

well i was the one who was telling Rogue gameplay is broken, broken and broken in every topic whole forum and when i  saw these positive posts and topics and fun of new rogue gameplay that makes me happy. it took longer time to balance but thank you Ankama about revamp again for true synergie of rogue.

2 -1
Reply
Score : 1474

Here are some observations on individual spells rather than combinations of spells that I find interesting.

Cross Fire is often underestimated, but it addresses two problems Rogue has as a class: fear of having the gap closed on us by a melee enemy, and not having enough max range to shoot back at distance enemies. For melee enemies, the majority of charging attacks are linear-restricted while self-teleporting spells for jumping onto a destination tend to not be as directionally restricted but being costly to use. For distance enemies, 10 max range is impressively high despite the diagonal restriction, not to mention Cross Fire having a base damage ratio of 14/AP @lv100 compared to the usual 13 or 12 for distance attacks on most classes. The bomb repositioning effect of Cross Fire is upward of 90% of why I use it while maybe 20% of the time I intentionally or incidentally deal damage, but for a Scope build it can be surprisingly useful for long range damage.

I haven't tested whether this works, but if Flaming applied by your ally onto an enemy causes damage to the enemy's enemies (you, your bombs), Execution and Dynamite for Rogue would be an amusing partner for classes able to apply Flaming onto other targets; assuming the damage from Flaming would be classified as your enemy being the source of damage. If all this works somehow, the tradeoff between giving an enemy an area attack against your party would be well worth forcing the boosted effects of Execution (15damage/AP @lv100 -> 22.5damage/AP @lv100), triggering +10 Combo from Dynamite. 

Barbed Fire greatly resembles the Eliotrope spell Hiding: same AP cost, 2 less max range, Hiding has slightly higher base damage (38 versus 36, @ lv100) but Hiding is 2 uses per turn while Barbed Fire is 2 per target per turn. Most Rogue builds are going to have around 11 to 13 AP on an average turn. Aside from having better range, Barbed Fire has the potential to be cast three times per turn to regenerate 108 base damage worth of life steal while summoning one new bomb. Compare this with the BBQ-Slap pairing, spending 5AP to get 56 base damage worth of healing and being able to cast that twice per turn for a total cost of 10AP. However, Barbed Fire has the advantage of much higher max range including the 1-2 melee range, giving it more flexibility as either a melee whip or distant vampirism, while BBQ-Slap is restricted to precisely 1 range.

0 0
Reply
Score : 8170
I wonder if other Rogues have realized this, but personally Up until now I used Long Sword as a direct damage without worrying about my last conecction too much, but I noticed that it can also re-create the Surprise Shot connection, so you don't have to worry about bad positioning at the start of the turn. Just move around, get to the back of the enemy, use Long Sword and enjoy the 50% bonus damage on your next Piercing Shot huh Visual bug. The combo is bugged and even though the corresponding state is added to the Rogue the bonus damage isn't triggered.

Im guessing that recreating the connection is intended and will be fixed in an upcoming patch.
3 0
Reply
Score : 1474

I tested this today. You can get the Surprise Shot Connection effect from Longsword. Whether Longsword successfully copies your last Connection requires that the Connection from Surprise Shot was successfully used, which means you have to hit something with your Surprise Shot boosted spell or the buff won't be copied to Longsword.

0 0
Score : 254

I complained about longsword not carrying surprise connection all during beta and recently in live. Unless they fixed it without me knowing.. it doesn’t carry surprise shot connection.

If you make 9 connections. You have an unlocked longsword and 4 connections towards another one.

If you THEN boomerang longsword, this counts as another connection and you can longsword again.

So it would be boomerang-longsword crit-longsword crit

Using surprise shot.. you should beable to (surpriseshot) longsword, longsword. But this does not work
As it should.

1 0
Reply
Score : 8170

Thanks for the correction.

You technically can recreate the Surprise Shot connection, even the corresponding state is added to your character but it is just a visual bug and the bonus damage is not triggered. The mistake that I made while testing was that I had equipped the passive Wakfu Connection which gives you a FD% on your next turn by every connection made on the previous one, resulting in a buffed Piercing Shot. A shame u_u

1 0
Score : 1474

Here are some more observations on spells, but this time it's for spells that don't work well together or how they could potentially be used together anyway.

Here's an obvious one: passives that increase Combo accumulation versus passives that decrease Combo accumulation. Evolved Gadgets lowers Combo gained per turn, Ka-Boom raises Combo gained per turn. Explobomb lowers max Combo level, Bomber Fan raises max Combo level. Breaking even by pairing such passives together might seem to be a good deal, but keep in mind this game favors specialized builds.

Fugitive can help compensate against Evolved Gadgets and Explobomb, but a build that willingly takes -20% final damage is going to specialize into optimizing your Combo rather than an off-bomber direct damage dealer.

Different ways to detonate: Minesweeper wants you to cast Detonator/Badabang, Dynamite wants you to let your bomb get killed by damage to detonate. You could carry both to use Badabang to buff while Dynamite is your real detonator, or have access to both in case enemies become wary of killing your bombs. 

Jackpot is more opposite to Dynamite while filling the same purpose of area damage, since Jackpot only triggers upon area detonation by casting Detonation/Badabang. Once again, you could technically use both together, but a build split between two polar opposite playstyles tends to not be very good.

Elemental Bombs lowers critical chance while Explobomb raises critical chance. You could still play an anti-crit chance build for the critical final damage buff by bringing Evolved Gadgets in, but at that point you may as well stick to an off-bomber high critical chance build with Explobomb and Evolved Gadgets. 

1 0
Reply
Score : 58

Hi there, thanks for this deep analysis for Rogue builds, as choosing passive for a solid build tend to debatable indeed.

A slightly off-topic question, for Major stat in Rogue, since the +control stat no longer mandatory, still the +40% dmg(either in range or control) is better than 10%Final damage? 

P.S: Do Jackpot really cannot trigger in ST build Detonation?  

1 0
Reply
Score : 1474

The mastery from major stats isn't why you would choose it. Your elemental mastery will reach +1,000% and beyond in higher levels while your final damage bonus won't exceed +100% after fully subliming your equipment (millions upon millions of kamas spent on that). 

I've read about control as a stat being revamped to become a buff for summons instead of a currency limiting your quantity of summons in the indefinite future but I wouldn't count on choosing your major stats on that being anytime soon. Range from major stats is good for a Scope Rogue but doesn't do much for a melee build. 

Jackpot was secretly changed in the 1.69.2 hotfix for the text of the spell's effect to change from the Connection triggering after casting Detonation/Badabang on any eligible target to casting it only on your bomb. Rogue received changes to spell effect text during the 1.69 beta test in a similar way, purging uses for spells they didn't expect or intend to exist.

For example, during the beta test I reported Execution's boosted effects not applying when you kill your own bombs but they did trigger when an ally kills your bomb, and the next update to the beta server after I mentioned this changed the text of Execution to restrict the boosted effects to require an enemy kills your bomb.

Correction: Jackpot does apply its Connection effect if Detonation/Badabang is cast on a target for a single-target detonation.

1 0
Score : 169

any plans on making a 1.69 build? i've read these topics and the change, and really seems fun and i'd willing to give it a try

0 0
Reply
Respond to this thread