Browse forums 
Ankama Trackers

Suggestions for a Rogue Rework

By Loka- - MEMBER - February 15, 2020, 23:23:36

Hi y'all. I'm Loka, a Rogue main from Nox and Remington (as Loka Picara). I'm the person who wrote a General Rogue Guide and an AoE Rogue Guide that you've probably seen if you've tried your hand at Rogue recently. 

Today, I'm going to talk about how Rogue needs another rework, why, and provide some suggestions on what to do. If you're surprised that I'm the one saying this, well, you shouldn't be. Rogue is a great class, but as it stands, it's designed based on Dofus mechanics that do not translate well to Wakfu, a much faster paced game.

This is why I'm suggesting a Rework be done for Rogue, instead of just changes. Its spells, passives, and base mechanics are all based on Combo, which is a slow mechanic from Dofus that just doesn't work for Wakfu. I love Combo, but it's too slow for Wakfu as it stands, and needs to be replaced with something different.

Bombs will always be a part of Rogue's kit as their unique mechanic, and they'll always take time to set up. Rogue needs more reasons to set up bombs and more options for what to do while they're cooking. How I'd do it, is that I'd have Bombs get stronger in whatever aspect for every turn they've been on the field, up to three turns, similar to how it was before the most recent rework. I would not give Rogue a way to speed this process up- instead, I'd give them other options on how to use these bombs while they're on the field and what to do outside of those bombs. I'd also make bombs not killable summons (remove the ridiculous HP for bombs- Rogues aren't tanks, why should they have to have such high HP?!), similar to how it was before the rework, even if this lowers their damage as a result (more on this later). I'd also put all three bomb types (blinding, suffocating, paralyzing) on the third bar, because having to put bombs on the deck as our unique mechanic takes up a lot of deck space when we should probably just be able to use them no matter what.

So here's my train of thought and some suggestions on how this could be done.

Rogue, when I look at it, has three roles it should be able to play in this game: Damage, Sabotage, and Zone Control. I'll discuss all three of these options and my suggestions for them.

Damage Rogue

My first suggestion for Damage Rogue is really, extremely simple: Let Rogue Have Decent Damage Spells. Give them more acceptable base damage on spells, especially on the Earth Branch. The Earth branch is just gross right now.

Secondly: Give some fun answers for why rogue is building its bombs for damage. Have a passive for high Bomb damage scaling (high base damage, or powerful scaling similar to combo that adds the damage bonus of all bombs of the same type to each bomb), or a passive to consume bombs for a Single-Target burst turn for Gunner Rogues or Blade rogues, at the price of bombs not doing damage in the process. Maybe even a passive that lets you use powered up bombs as ammo: Your gun spells turn into whatever element of the bomb you're using as ammo for one attack, and that attack does a lot more damage. Or maybe it turns the single target gun spells into AoE attacks, such as a long line AoE for Piercing Shot, some type of cone for machine gun (Which should be ST by default), a cross for pulsar, or anything that would make sense for that type of thing.

Third: Give Rogue some good passives for Gun Rogue or Blade Rogue. Rogue Master and Longsword are really underwhelming or strange, since Rogue Master's armor generation is pathetic at later levels, and Longsword's "recreates the last connection" does not work for every connection. Honestly, as an unlocked spell, Longsword should be powerful, and maybe should only be allowed to be used once every five connections completed. Maybe give passives for different types of ammo for gun rogue, that changes what spells do (more on this when I talk about Sabotage Rogue), or how powerful gun spells are. I have some passive suggestions, actually, for damage rogue.

Sniper: Minimum Range of Machine Gun, Pulsar, Piercing Shot, Execution, and Cross Fire (Basically all ST gun spells) set to 4. +3 Range (Or some sort of Range Bonus that would make sense). Damage done by the Rogue to enemies at or within 3 cells of the Rogue is reduced to zero (or otherwise reduced). These Spells Only: For every cell between you and your target: 5% damage dealt on the spell. -Dodge or -MP, whichever makes more sense.

This would be like, your sniper passive that allows you to hit enemies hard from far away, but make you unable to do much about enemies who are too close to you, and reduces your mobility, especially if an enemy is close to you. I figure this is a strong gunner passive, so I wanted to add some downsides like reduced mobility and elimination of melee damage, because as a Sniper you shouldn't be that close to enemies, nevermind attacking them. It's also a simple passive to counter in PvP, since you'd just have to be at least 3 cells away or closer to the Rogue.

Shoot Out: Unlocks the Duel spell. 

Duel - 2AP 1WP - 1-3 Range, Modifiable - Usable on Enemies - Inflicts the Shoot Out status on the Rogue and the Target for 3 turns. During the Turn (of someone with this status): 50% damage inflicted if attacking another entity with the Shoot Out status. -100% damage inflicted if attacking something without the Shoot Out Status. Not During the Turn (of someone with this status): 200 general resistance (or something reasonable). 

Yeehaw my dudes. This passive essentially allows the Rogue to challenge an enemy to a duel, where they do more damage to each other and cannot do damage to anyone else, and are resistant to attacks from outside of the duel. Although this passive sounds like a Gunner passive, this can also be used as a Blade passive. Felt like a fun idea.

Bazooka: Unlocks the Load Spell.

Load - 1WP - 1 Range, nonmodifiable - Usable on Bombs Only - Loads up a bomb into a big gun. Consumes the Bomb. Turns all gun spells into the element of that bomb for the next attack. On the next Gun spell(and only on that spell): %damage inflicted based on how many turns the Bomb has been active. 1 Turn: 20% damage inflicted. 2 Turns: 50% damage inflicted 3 Turns: 100% damage inflicted. 1 Use per turn. 

You know the Rogue from about 1:35 into this Video? This passive is what she was using. Call out: This one's for you, Baz. Should probably have some sort of cooldown. I'm not terribly protective of the numbers here, I'm just throwing out suggestions.

Hot Blades: Unlocks the Coat spell.

Coat - 1WP - 1 Range, nonmodifiable - Usable on Bombs Only - Use a bomb to enchant your blades for a turn. Consumes the bomb. For one turn: Turns all blade spells into the element of that bomb. %damage inflicted for Blade Spells based on how many turns the bomb has been active: 1 Turn: 10% damage inflicted. 2 Turns: 30% damage inflicted. 3 Turns: 50% damage inflicted. 1 Use per turn. 

This is basically the Blade Rogue version of Bazooka. The %damage inflicted bonuses are lower because it lasts a turn instead of one spell. Should also probably have some sort of cooldown. I didn't want to do a poison themed passive because that's a Sram thing, and we're Rogues, not Srams. We're flashy as heck.

Bomber Fan: Doubles the damage bonus per turn of Bombs, but bombs do not inflict Debuffs.

This one's pretty self explanatory. If Bombs get, say, 25% damage inflicted for every turn they're out by default, this passive lets them get 50%. This will not buff the bonuses that Coat or Load give, for obvious reasons. Didn't have a good name for this one, so I just went with Bomber Fan : (

Sabotage/Zone Denial Rogue

I kind of have to talk about these two aspects of Rogue at the same time, because Crowd Control and Debuffing are closely related in wakfu. 

First Suggestion: Add some passives that give Rogue more debuffing capabilities. I love that they can stabilize, inflict incurable, -MP, -WP, and -range, but it's limited as it stands. Give Rogue some passives that allow them to debuff more in exchange for damage.

Second Suggestion: Bring back firewall. There will be passives about this. Replace Powder Wall with another bomb utility and have firewalls be automatically formed when a bomb is in line with 2 other bombs that are 2 or less cells away from it. The default firewall does fire damage through armor. 

Here's my proposal for Powder Wall's replacement

Sabotage - 2AP 1WP - 1-4 Range modifiable - castable on Bombs - Changes the element of the Fire Wall. Fire Wall now inflicts debuffs instead of damage. Lasts 2 turns, 3 turn cooldown. Suffocating Bomb: -1 WP (or another debuff, since that could get out of control really quickly. Maybe -20 general resist?). Blinding Bomb: -2 Range. Paralyzing Bomb: -2 MP.

Third Suggestion: Execution's incurable is based on the # of bombs placed. First, this should start counting if the spell is on the deck instead of requiring that you cast it first, or even if it's not on deck, so people in PvP can't be sure if you have it. Secondly... maybe add a passive that lets us put down multiple bombs of the same type in a turn? I'll suggest some sabotage passives.

Bomb Squad: Boombot now has 35% HP of the Rogue (or something that makes sense like that) and does not die at the end of his turn. Boombot is immune to bomb related damage, (Powder Wall, Bomb detonations, etc), fire wall debuffs and damage, and shares Rogue's resistance. Bombs can now be pushed/pulled through each other, but will detonate if they end on top of one another. Boombot can not pick up monsters or players.

This is basically a passive that turns Boombot into old Boombot: he doesn't die immediately from taking damage, and lasts several turns. He's basically a little helper for Sabotage Rogue especially.

Saboteur: The Firewall does 0 damage. (But still inflicts a hit, stopping pushes or pulls.) Unlocks the spell Proximity. Bombs only get 1 turn of bonus damage. 

Proximity - 1WP - 2-4 range modifiable - castable on bombs - When cast on a bomb, the tiles surrounding the bomb's debuffs are doubled for 1 turn. 2 Casts per turn.

This spell is really resource intensive, so I'm tempted for it to cost 2 AP instead of 1 WP, but maybe that's the disadvantage of it. It'd be really tempting to just use proximity all the time to get some really tasty -4 mp tiles that last a turn. And then you'd run out of WP, and the way to regain WP is detonating your bombs. The 1 turn of bonus damage is meant to weaken Load and Coat, which consuming a bomb while having this passive would only give them the bonus they'd get if the bomb was out for only 1 turn. 

Destructive Tendencies: Doubles the removals from Firewall. -25% damage inflicted. 

Yes, combine this with Saboteur and you can get -8 MP tiles. I know that's ridiculous, but it would eliminate a lot of passive space and make rogue's bombs really weak in damage, and that's kind of the point. Sabotage Rogue has little damage but a lot of debuffing capability. You also have to, yknow, move an enemy to get them to lose the MP. How I see Sabotage Rogue, is basically they're MP Xelors, except they don't steal the MP, they just destroy it.

Atrophy: When a detonation occurs and hits an enemy, that enemy gets -50 general resistance per bomb that hit them for 1 turn. -25% damage inflicted.

You know how stuff tends to fall apart or collapse after a bomb goes off? This is following that logic. Some pretty heavy -%damage inflicted though, because I'm well aware of the fact that this is an AoE resist debuff. 

So there are some of my suggestions. Feel free to rip them apart, but try to provide your own feedback, given Rogue rarely gets any constructive posts nowadays and I'm only one person who isn't even a game designer. I've gotten to the point where I can see that another Rogue Rework is inevitable given how Wakfu is, and as it is now, Rogue isn't going to work well even if the game slows down in its pacing. It just doesn't have the options. 

3 -1
Reactions 14
Score : 86

Need a passive where if you get 3 bombs of all 3 types of bombs you can fuse them together for the Exodia Bomb

1 0
Score : 1262

Cool idea but had you thought in how many turns and AP this move would translate to? That's one of the biggest problems with current Rogue, with all the AP and turns needed for bombs you can play in a more satisfacting way with many other classes.

0 0
Score : 3323

Close combat Rogue fundamentals could be more around exploding bombs on enemies like mines. Like rogue places bomb on enemy after 1 turn, next spell of bomb element explodes bomb(Adjacent to the target) and providing benefits to rogue and crippling the enemy. Rogue would remain about thinking ahead and be more interactive with the enemy while also being stronger short term. 
My general idea would be to Keep Rogue thinking ahead of each turn, keeping the hit and run mechanic, while still having a utility through debuffing, effectively having map control. While bomb wall activating glpyhs on adjacent squares to enemies with a "bomb mine on them".Air mine could adjacent units when he detonates it, earth mine could reduce enemies mp, and fire mine reducing wp on target.

I think reinforced tunic is a really stupid spell. They didn't learn from Sadida. The problem isn't keeping the bombs alive, it's keeping them relevant all points of the fight. Bomb wall was supposed to do that but it's more a bandaid to the issue. Reinforced tunic could be changed to allies close to bombs gain armor after being dealt damage from an explosion according to combo. .  

While long term bomb rogue would remain as it is now(Probably with a lot less mobility, and more independent bomb control).

Ranged rogue would have more emphasize on placing bombs and using connections to debuff the enemy. Also placing obstacles and hindering the enemy. Bombs already block paths, but I mean having mostov burning effects on the field,  Punishing enemies for ending in line of sight, providing armor to allies on turns. the fundamental design would be rewarding Rogue for thinking ahead and punishing enemies for thinking short term.

I want for people to think "Having a rogue really pays off when he's playing really well" instead of "We have to play around rogue for the best results". While still preforming at well enough for beginner. Simple stuff just exploding bombs should pay off the second turn, but when you really get in to the nitty gritty, starting linear to an enemy should really put your damage above. Finishing beside a bomb should be punishable. Bombs should be a viable counter play,  but killing the rouge should be  the main priority at all times.

A lot of these things were on pass iterations of rogue, so they're very much possible. Every idea assumes combo exist in some capacity since the devs seem to love it.

I think combos personally should be cut in half (so instead of max 60 > 30 and having rogue be able to readily deal more stack up faster. First idea is lower ap on bombs but increase amount able to be placed by 1. So second turn you'd likely have 15 combo.

0 0
Score : 1990

On your first point: I actually had an idea for a Mine passive a while ago that I forgot to add in. Although this would make bombs an awful lot like Sram's traps, because it's a mine, so if you step on it you set it off... I do also like the idea of shooting bombs and causing them to go off but I haven't come up with many specifics on what the benefits of that would be. If we did get mines, I'd like for each mine to have 2 casts per turn depending on what their AoE is/how much space they take up.

I have a lot of mixed feelings on Reinforced tunic, but just specifically because I don't like bombs being killable in the first place. In my optimal revamp, bombs wouldn't have HP anymore, so Reinforced Tunic wouldn't have a reason to exist. Rogues really shouldn't have to focus so much on HP, it's just really weird for a damage dealing class.

Long Term Bomb Rogue also needs to change just because combo is too slow of a system for a game like Wakfu. Don't get me wrong, I love how powerful bombs are with combo, but it feels really bad when you have 2 turns of setup wasted because your bombs died.

Honestly I'd love for Rogue to have some type of utility that creates a smokescreen that blocks LoS, similar to Huppermage's light wall but smoke, and stepping in it reduces range instead of MP. 

I always saw Rogue as a class that should probably have a steep learning curve. Not how it is now, though, since right now Rogue is so unwieldy and you're either good at rogue or terrible, there's no in-between. Rogue should be able to be enjoyable even when played at a low level, because really fun is the name of the game here, and Rogue should be a lot of fun and really good when played well, because strategy is a huge part of its playstyle.

Yea I know a lot of this stuff was on previous versions of Rogue. It's where I got some of it from, lol. Combo, by the by, does not have a maximum on how much combo can stack to boost bomb damage. It does have a max 20 per bomb, but there is no limit to how many bombs you can stack beyond your control. I'm more for the elimination of combo altogether for a better system that works better with how Wakfu as a game is, because combo is a mechanic taken from Dofus which is much slower. 


0 -1
Score : 1262

First change needed: Bombs no more!

0 -1
Score : 461

I think it would be cool if rogues had spells that when cast on bombs gave bombs different detonation effects or buffs. Here's a few examples.

  • A spell that made it so bombs, when detonated, left a glyph in their wake. Like the earth bomb could leave a field of caltrops that deal damage and remove mp. Fire could leave a field of smoke that removed range and block los of those inside.
  • A spell that made bombs push or pull on detonation. Bonus points if it pushes and pull before other bombs go off.
  • A spell that makes a bomb immune for a turn
  • A spell that gives a bomb a greater AoE.
  • A spell that makes bombs go off when someone enter within 2 cells of it.
1 0
Score : 3323

I recently finally retired on the idea of my rogue, it's just too impractical. It plays in a very impratical manner. After doing caluclations on what my first turn should look like and second turn. The general idea is things I just do not like.

For example, If you actually sit down and crunch some numbers. Badabang is FAR  too powerful not to use first turn. Just using it on a for example Sram or Eca can result in 30-50 base damage per AP. Isn't that the exact opposite from damage dealer?  Just an example of a problem I have with Rogue in one single spell. Guess what, if your bomb is broken during the first turn, Badabang is again the strongest spell you have(Bar piercing shot which you're almost expected to use).

Another problem is bombs die far too easily unless you have high resistance (Which is another one of those weird for this type of damage dealer). In general Rogue shouldn't care for high resistance, almost akin to Sram, or Cra those two being full damage dealers. But they have to due to their mechanics. Xelor doesn't worry about dial breaking(although it's a viable strategy), why should we? I use Xelor here because it's a great example of a really strong meta class, I could easily use Panda as well due to barrels. These mechanics follow the same philosophy the durability of Bombs do. But they work much better for similar reasons. These mechanics are made to be always out of the enemies reach. Dial is normally not placed as to make sure Xelor is always playing a a distance and Barrel is often straight up un-targetable in panda hands or thrown far away so panda can transport to it and stay a distance.

Bombs due to the increasing power of quantity and being restrained by AP, is wanted to be close to the enemy to reduce the amount of resources needed to use it. Since Rogue only has 1 (weak) passive for defense, bombs are easily broken. Now the argument could be build tanky, but by doing that you're playing at a disadvantage to other classes that don't have to and you should be replaced by them because they're now better at their jobs due to the trade off for damage vs durability. It's also not a very viable idea for the leveling/new or developing player which is why it's impractical,  It's a progression based game so you're expected to always be looking to build optimally that's the end game, to only be strong at that point you're playing at a disadvantage till then.

I truly believe Rogue needs another revamp due to these problems as it would benefit from a complete overhaul.(Solutions when I get the chance). What saddens me more is bombs, A spell that sounds like an AoE spell most of these problems are more apparent for AoE rogue. The math is there.There's just so many problems that need to be discussed. Also crossfire is underwhelming.

1 0
Score : 1262

Still wonder what was thinking the responsible at the the time when they thought  the good and perfect gun rogue was a bad idea and made an irritating and very limited bomb rogue instead.

0 0
Score : 2175

How about this: All 3 bombs are converted into one in the Active Spell branch. When thrown, the bomb have a 2-cells radius that grants the nearby enemy a status (similar to Foggernaut's Blockade status), and lets throwa passive to give the bomb one more cell of radius and such. This status would affect your damaging spells, granting bonuses and such, while also, everytime the monster affected by the bomb is attacked, the bomb gains a level of "detonation" (the condition could be that any enemy that takes damage inside the bomb's radius, gives the bomb one level of "Detonation"), when it reaches the cap (and lets give a passive to increase the cap of "Detonation"), it explodes when the turn is over. You would also have 3 different "trigger" spells to detonate the bomb prematurely, but each trigger would add an effect to the detonation, perhaps similar to Sram's "weak point", each trigger would require a specific number of "detonation" and grant it a different effect, plus each affecting the element of the bomb when it explodes, replacing the Wind, Earth and Fire bomb with a Wind, Earth and Fire triggers. This would give the rogue some more variety, he can either detonate the bomb with fewer levels for quick fights or let it acumulate for longer for a bigger BOOM in fights that are bound to be longer and enemies that won't move so much (or can be reliably repositioned to your bomb).

0 0
Score : 3323

Great idea IMO. Also something I suggested a while ago. I almost assume they can't make a mechanic that can be hit with an element and take the element it has to start as the element in the first place.(even Hupper has such a restraint). Technical restraints I assumed.

But yes, that would be a great idea. The detention is a bit convoluted.  I think I would've done something more simple perhaps make combo mean actual combo and have AP to Combo given to bombs. For example, 5 ap in the radius of bombs = 5 combo. Then exploding bombs work exactly as they do now. While also having a passive that increases combo cap from 10 to 20/30 for long term rogue.  

I also have a couple of problems with the elemental branches of Rogue where Fire is single target (range), Earth is AoE, Air is Single target Melee. There's barely a relationship between the branches other than Fire/Airs single target. It doesn't need to be like this. I think All air spells should be 1-1 range modifable( To keep them powerful in melee while viable  for ranged) and give some viable means for AoE to single target. Bombs being single target is bunch of non-sense as is,. This wasn't the case for any of the revamps prior, it's new with the recent one and makes bombs far more ally friendly reducing the risk/reward factor, There's no reason for the entire class to be strongest with single target because of it.

I really like the idea of current air branch, I really hate that it's completely melee. I think it being 1-1 range modifable would be more interesting because it would give me a viable reason to build range(There's no real reason right now) and with 1 range close combat rogue would also benefit.

0 0
Score : 3323

I really like rogue. okay. That's why I care so much about the class to update this thread. I just don't think it's practical w/o a full build.

My main problems and potential solutions for the class currently without revamping the whole thing -

Problem 1 - Rogue Master - Not a very versatile passive, it has one specific use for one specific branch in one specific situation and it's not really all too good. By new passive standards(What you said in fogger review), this is a bad passive. The entire air branch is kind of really poorly designed in the sense it really pushes the idea of Melee Single target instead of being an element branch for Rogue. 

Evanensence is way too strict and obstinate. Talking about a spell that has one use.  Only applies connection on "Melee, Single target". Why?

My suggestion  - Rogue master = Every connection reduces detonation/Badabang AP by 1 ap.
5 connection - detonation/badabang adds 2 combo before exploding
5 connection - next use of boombot or ruse cost 0 ap.

To promote the idea of Air rogue exploding wanting to use their bombs while not having a completely obstinate passive while also being useful for all builds(Who wouldn't want 0 AP badabang.)

Problem 2 - Air branch is far too strict in comparsion to the rest of the branches. Slap shot and BBQ ribs are very strong spells but are far too strict on range and spell effect. You would almost think it was an Iop's branch. While every single branch works with single target melee(Are we sure, we're not Iops?). 

My suggestion -  Make BBQ ribs, Slapshot range modifable. Make Evanesence transport back to bomb on recast and remove the conditional for melee single target on cast. Making Evanesence far more powerful for a hit and run function for melees while still being viable for range..

Problem 3: This debatable, as such it should probably be discussed. Piercing shot is way way way too valuable. It caps at 475  base damage and can be used first turn, and realistically is the only way we'll run out of wp. That is probably the highest damage any class can deal turn 1 at ranged, bar potentially Eliotrope. But.... I kind of really like it. THAT being said, That spell has some really good potential to be our bread and butter. 

My suggestion - 2 ap 1 wp Piercing shot X Damage/AP next spell on target consumes 3 wp and deals 225 damage.

Problem 4 - Bomb wall is useless, Potentially powerful spell, very useless. Because it requires you to summon multiple bombs in 1 turn to be useful, then it also requires you to build up the bomb to high combo and assumes you won't want to explode it at that point. All while being close enough to the enemy to utilize the wall itself. Impractical.

My suggestion -  Bomb wall stabilizes bombs  and deals 2 ap worth of damage linear glyph across the bombs for 2 turns. Simple, clean, useful.

Problem 5 - Bombs will die very quickly if you're not overgeared into resist. But the real problem is - Bombs do not benefit from many Rogue stats. A fully geared damage dealer would have around 72% resist, while an average geared one would have 55%-65%. The difference is a 30% damage mitigation. It's very much a block.  Another problem - Bombs don't take from Crit, or crit damage the only damage dealer of it's kind. If Rogue was to build tanky, not only will they be losing out on damage, they'll be wasting the block that comes with the gear.

My solution - Bombs get crit chance of Crit damage  worth of stats and resist of Block. For example if Rogue had 50% crit, it'd get 50% of it's crit damage. If they had 50% block, they'd get 75 resist.

Minor Problems - Cross shot and Barbed fire - Both of these are awkward due to the ap cost but very interesting mechanics. Pulsar is alittle rough around the edges.

My suggestion: Barbed fire definitely needs an ap reduction and I'd argue we don't need 2 lifesteall spells in our kit, SO 2 ap linear and diagonal spells cause it to AoE 3 tiles. Makes for a neat way to make bombs tanky enough to stay in close combat while dealing damage like a damage dealer.

Cross shot - I like the idea of pull the bombs on shot(Would arguably be great for execution actually) Cross shot a cool spell but there's 0 reward for the effort. Do something, anything to make this. There' s no need for a solution to help this one, there's just so much you can do with it.

Pulsar doesn't have enough burst for the risk - 4 ap would do quite well.

I want Rogue to be more corherent because the class is currently all over the place in what it wants to be. Just a simple hit and run bomb oriented map controller. 

0 0
Score : 1990

Rogue master is only good at lower levels where the armor it generates is significant. I use it in level 80 stuff. I agree Rogue's connections need some work, especially since a huge majority of them don't work with longsword as they're supposed to. They're very confusing. Evanescence isn't really all that strict- it's a mobility spell meant to get backstab on a melee spell. I'm not sure if it actually has the ST requirement but I'd have to check.

Your suggestion to rogue master doesn't really improve it all that much. Those spells already cost very little AP, as in, you need 3 connections to get Badabang to cost 0 AP. That's two boots and any third connection (could be claw). I also don't think badabang in particular should add combo, because it already increases bomb damage. 

Rogue was the first class with connections, which might explain why they're not so great when compared to, for example, Cra's connections. I think, if Rogue wants to have a build around connections, it needs more of them and more useful ones, as well as having the connections promote different options for the Rogue's utility needs. Rogue as a class has to be flexible because it has to adapt not only to what the enemy team does (PvE or PvP), but also what your own team does, and overall needs more utility than most other classes because of this.

I think you need to take into account that Rogue is supposed to have a weapon specific theme to each branch, which has been heavily disrupted by this rework. The air branch is strictly melee because it is the "blade" branch for Rogue, or the branch of spells where Rogue uses daggers and swords. The rework disrupted this theming by putting a bomb in each branch, which I have my own beef with and might make another rework suggestion thread because of this. Old Air rogue was still strictly melee, though it had boomerang dagger and longsword (which was AoE). 

I think Rogue's air branch should stay melee because it makes sense for the theme, but I do wish we had an active spell like Hotwire (huge throwback to like, 2013 or 2014), which, in this case, would change Rogue's ST spells into AoE fire spells, since Rogue does promote a playstyle that can swap from ST to AoE and back at the tip of a hat if people want to thanks to how detonation works. 

Also, just look at Slap Shot/BBQ's animation. Having that be ranged makes... no sense. At all. This is what the earth branch is supposed to be for.

Piercing shot is an awful spell regardless of its potential base damage because Rogue is very WP dependent and only gets WP back from detonating bombs, which do a lot more damage than Piercing shot, anyways. Piercing shot is also very beginner unfriendly and just, generally, I hate how it works right now because it was lazily nerfed. 

I don't really like your suggestion because Piercing shot should have one job: yeeting armor. I don't think it should have its WP effect or a WP related connection. I'd like a 5ap 1WP armor nuking spell that did a base damage of something like 131 at level 200, maybe making its damage higher if the target has armor (or a reasonable amount of unreducible damage because it pierces armor). 

Powder Wall does not imply that you don't want to detonate a bomb. You can use powder wall and then detonate immediately after. The wall stays. It's a useful spell, does indirect damage, and is incredibly powerful with a higher base damage than one 20 combo bomb if you cast it on a 20 combo bomb. The problem with it is that it only triggers if an enemy starts their turn on it, and Rogue has no way to make sure that happens for more than one turn. It also can easily be used against the Rogue and its allies. 

I do kind of like your suggestion. It's similar to dofus' firewall, but significantly weaker and it costs AP to get. I think it should trigger whenever something enters the wall up to 3 triggers during the rogue's turn and 3 triggers outside of the rogue's turn and inflict a debuff equivalent to what powder wall already debuffs. Even then, it might not be strong enough.

I'd also like for it to make the bombs immune to damage and detonation, or something fun like that, since you can't move them, and therefore, protect them, if they're stabilized.  

As for Bombs being squishy/dying fast, 1: bombs don't get the rogue's resist. It's actually even worse: rogue has to invest heavily into HP for bombs not to get killed easily. 2: there is a reason Bombs do not benefit from anything critical hit related. They did once before, but that was removed for a very good reason.

Now that I think about it, though, criting on bombs now might be okay, since they're not indirect damage anymore. Then again, if they did Crit, Rogues would kill phaseless dungeon bosses turn 2. I'm not kidding. This is the same reason Rogue doesn't have final damage for itself in its kit now.

Honestly, I'd like for the bombs to share rogues' resist just because 1: rogue doesn't have resist passives, so it's not like you'd have 90% resist bombs, and 2: the game promotes high 70%-80% resists endgame anyways, so bombs would be more tanky.

I mean, I'd also like even more if bombs didn't have HP and didn't die, kind of like how it used to be, but I doubt they'll ever go back to that because they want enemies to be able to do something about rogue bombs.

Pulsar is a problem and needs to be changed. There's literally no reason to sacrifice all of your MP at the start of your turn for a dinky damage boost. As it stands, Pulsar is unusable. It really should be an attack that does damage based on the % of MP that remains, not consume your MP, and have a high starting base damage that goes down as you use MP. 4 AP would be a good cost, with a base damage of something like 150 or even higher, since its damage goes down as you use MP. It should also stay as a linear cast because that promotes MP usage or teamwork

Cross fire is one of my favorite spells, as is Barbed fire, but they are really hard to use (especially cross fire). Rogue in general needs some heavy buffs so it has a reason to go distance, in particular. Cross fire is also bugged and doesn't always pull every single bomb, especially when used twice in a row.

I like Cross Fire's extremely high skill cap, someone's gonna yell at me for saying that lol. If it worked as it should 100% of the time, it's a very good spell for bomb traps as long as no one gets in your way- which is the REAL problem with it. I'd love for it to somehow have a reduced AP cost when used for utility. As for people getting in the way of a bomb trap, well... there isn't much we can do about that lol.

Barbed Fire needs more range please and thank you. Legit, like, 1 more base range. Please. 

anyways i need to go do other things, sorry for the late response to your post ohmy

EDIT: i thought this was one of my guides but this is the rogue rework thread whoops my bad. if i mention "my other thread where i suggested stuff" that's just because I thought this was a different thread lol!

0 0
Respond to this thread