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In Group PvP.

By Cailism - MEMBER - January 15, 2013, 04:01:06

Would you rather have an earth sac (or tank sac for that matter) or a fire/air sac on your team?

It would have maxed sacrifice no matter what it is.

And with your answer, maybe a quick reason why?

I'm trying to solve an argument with a friend about the viability of pure tank sacs in PvP versus Fire or Air sac, with the ability to use earth spells if it has to go full tank, etc.

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Personally I'd rather have a fire sac,

Might not be able to tank as well as an earth sac, but in my opinion it is more versitle than an earth sac. and specially since I have that mentality of kill or be killed, which tends for me to naturally go towards more offensive type characters.

You can start out being defensive with the fire sac, using spells to build up coag, and then support characters with trans to set them up in better positions or using sacrifice to get them out of a jam.

then with under 60% or 50% hp, you can switch to offensive and still help your teams with using trans.

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i dont know sacs. so imma say air. for me i dont need things near me or i cant do damage so it moving things would help me..

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MoshPitt|2013-01-15 05:08:55
Personally I'd rather have a fire sac,

Might not be able to tank as well as an earth sac, but in my opinion it is more versitle than an earth sac. and specially since I have that mentality of kill or be killed, which tends for me to naturally go towards more offensive type characters.

You can start out being defensive with the fire sac, using spells to build up coag, and then support characters with trans to set them up in better positions or using sacrifice to get them out of a jam.

then with under 60% or 50% hp, you can switch to offensive and still help your teams with using trans.
This is my personal opinion, yeah.
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MoshPitt|2013-01-15 05:08:55
Personally I'd rather have a fire sac,

Might not be able to tank as well as an earth sac, but in my opinion it is more versitle than an earth sac. and specially since I have that mentality of kill or be killed, which tends for me to naturally go towards more offensive type characters.

You can start out being defensive with the fire sac, using spells to build up coag, and then support characters with trans to set them up in better positions or using sacrifice to get them out of a jam.

then with under 60% or 50% hp, you can switch to offensive and still help your teams with using trans.
I disagree to an extent.

A proper Earth sac with very nice resists can provide much more for the team, than a fire sac.

I do agree that a fire sac does provide more damage in the long run, but don't forget that they are also dealing self-damage. Even building up coag in the beginning of the fight, that coag, will not be as strong as an Earth sac and will run out pretty fast. Therefore, you will reach that 60% or 50% hp that much faster, making the eni in your group to sacrifice doing damage, to heal you.

Same thing would go if you were without an eni, you would just be a target if at 60% or 50% hp and sacrificing, you would die pretty fast, even if you were transpositioning.

Mind as well go All-in lol.
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One of the things that I'm thinking about is like.. if the teams were identical except one had an earth/tank sac and the other had a fire sac, I think the side with the fire sac would have a distinct advantage-

Say both sides are spamming small abilities to get rid of sacrifice stacks.

When all the stacks are gone, what use is the earth sac? At least the fire sac can do stuff- it would put the sacrifice down again and then dish out some damage to focus down the enemy's squishy.

The earth sac would literally be doing no damage and wouldn't be tanking since no one is hitting it, lol.

But honestly, I would never say no to having an earth/tank sac on my side, because they're super helpful and good. I'm just seeing what most people have to say about which they'd rather have.

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It really depends on the situation. Sometimes tank, sometimes fire.

I'm not a huge fan of fire sacs, I would rather have support, but that's just me.

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The maxed sacrifice assumption on a fire sac is pretty shaky imo.

Fire sacs usually max their 2 damage passives so if they're maxing sacrifice as well then something is losing out between blood pact, attraction and transpose all of which can be pretty crucial in a team fight. Something has to give and that something usually gives the tank sac another advantage (be it mobility or durability and with a full group the durability loss from blood pact can be pretty big).

Sacrifice was sort of nerfed and buffed at the same time in it's last rework. Being limited to one cast per turn really hurts tank sacs especially in group pvp but the removal of the it's wp cost lets the tank recast it every turn easy which is more annoying.

I'd say fire sacs have the edge in shorter fights but tank sacs take it in longer ones.

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Why not both?

20 pact, 20 angrrr, 9 sac, 9 attract, 20 tattooed blood, 5 transposition, 1 cling, 1 MP, HP dump, Moowolf set, Minatsu boots with damage or Retreating boots, Vampiric BP, hurdy girdle, Makbrards, Khiel's Aegis.

Boom, suddenly you have a tank fire sac.

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I would have to go with a DPS sac. Putting pressure on the opposing team is often more valuable. As Hate said you can still setup your sac to defend and support as well. It may not be Earth sac defense but it will make the other team think twice about attacking that sac'd player.

If I'm fighting a team with a heavily defended earth Sac and Eni. Ignore them. CC is great for this purpose. Let them poke you with their sticks if need be and destroy their teammates.

Are there any Earth Sacs out there who are setup to deal dmg and let their +coag do their defending for them?

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Earth Sacrier. Smasher for reducing heals received on a target your team is focusing while also shielding yourself with the option of shielding other people seems better in a group PvP scenario.

But I hardly PvP... so meh.

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I'd perfer a mobility Earth Sac, for using Sacrifice and setting up opponents with Transpo and Attraction or using earth spells for damage/tanking.

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Right, I forgot about how helpful smasher can be. *_* Problem is that it's got that annoying angrr cost. Well, and I guess any sac can use it if it has to.

You know, sometimes I think they should make the coag raise with spell levels. >_>

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It doesn't have an angrrr cost it has an angrrr requirement.

Keep your sac below 88.5% HP and he can smasher/light speed/pun whenever.

@using smasher for utility

Man what a good idea that is

If only Hatespawn's suggestion added a lot of earth AND fire damage, or damage to all elements so you can have fire sac damage and earth sac utility.

Oh wait.

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Did they fix incurable being able to be removed by eniraser? Making an eni waste the cast ofthe skill is helpful, though.

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Yeah, I don't think that they can remove it anymore.

At least, I sort of remember a patch mentioning that. *_*

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Lol.

Allow me to remind you;

I'm not Earth.

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And?

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Guess you're forgetting all my hatred towards enis, and how I swore that if they kept Smasher at OP stacks of Incurable I'd KoS enis.

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Eso, you've seen my team..is this a serious question?

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