Hello,
I read some stuff here about kama sinks and I don't agree with what's being said. It's time for some facts and transparency ! I found some data from all the way back in 2016. The data just counts how many kamas have been created / destroyed and why, during a whole month.
Keep in mind, it was in 2016, also it's been rounded for clarity purposes.
Aerafal kama sink :
Remington kama sink :
Nox kama sink :
Elbor kama sink :
Dathura kama sink :
It doesn't include HW taxes since nothing was bought in the course of the month.
I won't share the detailed populations and kama at the time, all I can tell you is that Nox and Remington were a lot less populated than the other three servers and the total kama sum was way lower.
We can only assume that the gem upgrade would weigh a LOT more on the players on less populated / less wealthy servers, creating a negative dynamic.
Meanwhile, on wealthy servers, market taxes are way more efficient at destroying kamas. It also taxes everyone much more fairly : the richer people are taxed the same %. However, they will destroy more kamas, which will bring them closer to the poorer people.
(makes me wonder about how this system would work on an actual country / continent, I assume it wouldn't since the trade mechanics are so different in Wakfu)
All I can say is : at the time, all servers were in a deflation except for Remington (oddly enough, on Remington there was a TON of kamas generated by some kind of compensation. I don't have the full history, maybe it was normal)
Also, I manipulated the data to remove the kama sum destroyed through gem upgrades from the total destroyed sum : still a deflation for all aforementioned servers (and a BRUTAL one for Aerafal, billions of kamas destroyed within a month).
By the way, discussing sinks only doesn't matter at all. The sink's relevance only comes from how it works with the generation. On Wakfu, all the generated kamas have been generated with fixed values. There's no exponentiality in the generation, every player can only generate so much.
A dynamic, % based sink is necessary (and clearly, it's enough). Otherwise, it would lead to many problems. And I truly feel like it's just enough : multiplying kama sinks, in addition to being inefficient, would be frustrating. I honestly figure that we could remove all kama sinks and depend on the market taxes only.
We're still studying this kind of data every year. It's very interesting for us, so we're monitoring the kama flow closely. Sometimes it even leads us to finding some abusive generations.
I can't share details about the current state of the ingame economy, but I can assure you it's been great. We're satisfied with the current economy, and we'll take proper action if we feel like it's not the case anymore.
Anyway, I hope that provides some explanation about the state of the kama sinks.
Enjoy your weekend,
Siu
See message in context
I read some stuff here about kama sinks and I don't agree with what's being said. It's time for some facts and transparency ! I found some data from all the way back in 2016. The data just counts how many kamas have been created / destroyed and why, during a whole month.
Keep in mind, it was in 2016, also it's been rounded for clarity purposes.
Aerafal kama sink :
- 77% market taxes
- 1% transport
- 12% gem upgrade
- 9% everything else (elections, trool fair, guilds etc.)
Remington kama sink :
- 43% market taxes
- 5% transport
- 41% gem upgrade
- 11% everything else (elections, trool fair, guilds etc.)
Nox kama sink :
- 27% market taxes
- 1% transport
- 52% gem upgrade
- 20% everything else (elections, trool fair, guilds etc.)
Elbor kama sink :
- 66% market taxes
- 1% transport
- 27% gem upgrade
- 6% everything else (elections, trool fair, guilds etc.)
Dathura kama sink :
- 71% market taxes
- 2% transport
- 18% gem upgrade
- 9% everything else (elections, trool fair, guilds etc.)
It doesn't include HW taxes since nothing was bought in the course of the month.
I won't share the detailed populations and kama at the time, all I can tell you is that Nox and Remington were a lot less populated than the other three servers and the total kama sum was way lower.
We can only assume that the gem upgrade would weigh a LOT more on the players on less populated / less wealthy servers, creating a negative dynamic.
- There's few kamas and you have to spend almost of them on your gems -> the game feels unfair.
- There's a lot of kamas and you have to spend a minimal amount on your gems -> the game feels almost too easy, kamas have less meaning.
Meanwhile, on wealthy servers, market taxes are way more efficient at destroying kamas. It also taxes everyone much more fairly : the richer people are taxed the same %. However, they will destroy more kamas, which will bring them closer to the poorer people.
(makes me wonder about how this system would work on an actual country / continent, I assume it wouldn't since the trade mechanics are so different in Wakfu)
All I can say is : at the time, all servers were in a deflation except for Remington (oddly enough, on Remington there was a TON of kamas generated by some kind of compensation. I don't have the full history, maybe it was normal)
Also, I manipulated the data to remove the kama sum destroyed through gem upgrades from the total destroyed sum : still a deflation for all aforementioned servers (and a BRUTAL one for Aerafal, billions of kamas destroyed within a month).
By the way, discussing sinks only doesn't matter at all. The sink's relevance only comes from how it works with the generation. On Wakfu, all the generated kamas have been generated with fixed values. There's no exponentiality in the generation, every player can only generate so much.
A dynamic, % based sink is necessary (and clearly, it's enough). Otherwise, it would lead to many problems. And I truly feel like it's just enough : multiplying kama sinks, in addition to being inefficient, would be frustrating. I honestly figure that we could remove all kama sinks and depend on the market taxes only.
We're still studying this kind of data every year. It's very interesting for us, so we're monitoring the kama flow closely. Sometimes it even leads us to finding some abusive generations.
I can't share details about the current state of the ingame economy, but I can assure you it's been great. We're satisfied with the current economy, and we'll take proper action if we feel like it's not the case anymore.
Anyway, I hope that provides some explanation about the state of the kama sinks.
Enjoy your weekend,
Siu
2. Honestly, tax seems fine
3. Yeah pets loosing HP when you die is kinda annoying, but then the whole pet system could be updated a bit after all this time. Dedarm is fine tho.
4. Yeah
>dedarm is bearable but i just hate respawning outside of the dungeon with 1hp, no mmo does it anymore
>idk about rushu but it seems 2sacs is ideal team comp, won't be surprised if anything else can't get top score
I imagine they will add some kind of megaherosystem to monoaccount server, so players will comfortably 6box on 1account
2. I think there should be a Kama sink for activating Steles instead of using resources to activate it. Sinking Kama on a frequently used mechanic which has beneficial AND optional function for players is the best way to do it imo. Idk just how much Kama is needed to activate one but it shouldn't be ridiculously expensive.
3. NGL I hate Dedarm stacking, but Level 1 Dedarm is fine with me. Is that weird? Pet health loss for not feeding is fine with me, health loss on death is no no. Please remove it.
I mean you did die from loosing all your HP, so respawning with 1 HP makes sense
But on the other hand, I wish they made the HP regen when sitting a % rate instead of flat, cause at endgame levels it takes ridiculously long to regen any of it
This is what I hate most. Please buff weaker classes regularly. You have data on class and spell usage, just buff the numbers of the weaker classes every once in a while.
but hey apparently spamming LFG on a multilanguage global channel for HOURS is more human and fun, craaazy.But I will say tho, I believe Heroes aren't the responsibles of 6-boxing. You have always been able to create your own full team of 6 for free since the beginning of the game by opening multiple clients, even devs are aware of that and even give you an official setting in the launcher to register your accounts and open them up instantly. All Heroes do is make that process of multiaccounting easier by reducing the needed accounts from 6 to just 2, they saw an opportunity there and turned into a service. I say this because I would hate seeing the removal of the Heroes because players will just say "ok, I will just transfer my characters or create a new account, no big deal" and continue playing alone, but for many of us having multiple clients open is annoying as heck specially if you don't have dual monitors or something
2.- Well, maybe an interesting kama sink would be adding a kama cost to the Enchanting system? Genshin, Destiny, some korean MMOs tend to use the game's currency among other materials to upgrade and improve your gear. Maybe by adding a Kama cost when using shards on a Socket or when putting a sublimation on an item would be a good Kama sink and, at the same time due to the new cost, Devs could reduce the amount of shards needed to Enchant an item at higher socket levels.
3.- I feel like Dedarm just adds salt to the injury. I'm not against spawning at 1hp but having to wait for dedarm to go away after healing up is kind of annoying ngl, specially if you use Heroes. The slow passive HP regen is punishing enough if you don't have bread on you, needing 2 different consumables per character to quickly get back into battle is ... ugh, please no.
4.- I think that issue should be solved once every class is reworked. But I'll admit I haven't been paying attention to the boards so idk if there have been an increase in Cras, Huppers, Elios or any other recently reworked class.
Trying to beat Competitive Enviros :p
I want the mono server to be good but they’re gonna have to fix a lot of this for it to be functional, I’m genuinely worried about clearing content when that server drops and the economy as well… it has a lot of potential but I don’t envy the work the devs are gonna have to put in to make it work well.
I read some stuff here about kama sinks and I don't agree with what's being said. It's time for some facts and transparency ! I found some data from all the way back in 2016. The data just counts how many kamas have been created / destroyed and why, during a whole month.
Keep in mind, it was in 2016, also it's been rounded for clarity purposes.
Aerafal kama sink :
Remington kama sink :
Nox kama sink :
Elbor kama sink :
Dathura kama sink :
It doesn't include HW taxes since nothing was bought in the course of the month.
I won't share the detailed populations and kama at the time, all I can tell you is that Nox and Remington were a lot less populated than the other three servers and the total kama sum was way lower.
We can only assume that the gem upgrade would weigh a LOT more on the players on less populated / less wealthy servers, creating a negative dynamic.
Meanwhile, on wealthy servers, market taxes are way more efficient at destroying kamas. It also taxes everyone much more fairly : the richer people are taxed the same %. However, they will destroy more kamas, which will bring them closer to the poorer people.
(makes me wonder about how this system would work on an actual country / continent, I assume it wouldn't since the trade mechanics are so different in Wakfu)
All I can say is : at the time, all servers were in a deflation except for Remington (oddly enough, on Remington there was a TON of kamas generated by some kind of compensation. I don't have the full history, maybe it was normal)
Also, I manipulated the data to remove the kama sum destroyed through gem upgrades from the total destroyed sum : still a deflation for all aforementioned servers (and a BRUTAL one for Aerafal, billions of kamas destroyed within a month).
By the way, discussing sinks only doesn't matter at all. The sink's relevance only comes from how it works with the generation. On Wakfu, all the generated kamas have been generated with fixed values. There's no exponentiality in the generation, every player can only generate so much.
A dynamic, % based sink is necessary (and clearly, it's enough). Otherwise, it would lead to many problems. And I truly feel like it's just enough : multiplying kama sinks, in addition to being inefficient, would be frustrating. I honestly figure that we could remove all kama sinks and depend on the market taxes only.
We're still studying this kind of data every year. It's very interesting for us, so we're monitoring the kama flow closely. Sometimes it even leads us to finding some abusive generations.
I can't share details about the current state of the ingame economy, but I can assure you it's been great. We're satisfied with the current economy, and we'll take proper action if we feel like it's not the case anymore.
Anyway, I hope that provides some explanation about the state of the kama sinks.
Enjoy your weekend,
Siu
ODDLY?
i was player at remmington server and i can tell with 80% confidence this is also because that particular international server was more civilized than the others , the mayority used kelba market or paid the taxes without whinning ,was the server with less corruption or at least there was pillar of alligned good paladin players(i was part of the people that busted and reported many scammers even LLane), seeking to help busted the corrupt players , even if whole riktus nation was corrupted at the time , was very normal and popular using the market even if the taxes was unbalanced ... perhaps there were same problems like kama sellers and dupers , this two variables striked back all the servers , please take in account that the behaviour of the playerbase towards the kama market was very different at the time .... very few players was unable or had troubles paying the boosters via cell codes or whatever ... now mayority want all free and on that mindset thing must worth less so the whole economy sinks !
Even if im spanish i rejected to played on elbor community due to the amount of tax evasion , toxicity and corrupted players that still play the game braking the efforts for a more healthy and fun economy ... now is not good because the time invest versus the low profit kicks out many players . on this new server rubilax the kama sink have a strong variable and is that many ..really many super players use to sell kamas and thats something the game cant track because they evade that by using guild banks !
i find really odd why at remmington server the spanish community didnt harmed the server as the whole elbor server is doing to rubilax ? i guess remmnigton server was dollar and euro economy based playerbased versus elbor that was all latin america and just spain players currency... nowdays is not even clear if the support team care of the TOU when report a scammer or illegal behaviour .
As an example i remember on remmington server that some monopoly grinders used to choose a niche ,for example the guy that just sells experience potions or some kind of bread : normally when you tried to sell for less the same seller buys your product and then he monopolize the price making a standard, away from the ogrine/kama/euros rates so at the end some resources and items was selling using that standard and the market full of this monopoly sellers that at the end helped protected the economy for many years on that server .... hope this help to understand few facts .
i want to ask you personally if is possible to give us at least or just evaluate the actual situation about population , because is a fact that the mayority around 50-70% of remmington players left the game ...many because the language barrier and cultural distance... is not possible to separate chat by language ?
World is changing to unify humanity for transparency as you said ... how come is possible the team didnt warn the community about all this massive changes for log into game before the update ...and i mean by testing the beta so people decide when to pay for their booster i myself looses 20 days due to the new " old " mac log troubles that suposed to be solved in several weeks ... svereal weeks ?
best regards
fellow player GOUG
thanks for the great work even if few of us seem not happy is just that is hard to swallow some changes and some others feel nonesense...
just saying but did ankama ever thought about kama being a cryptocurrency or something that validates the pirates in game to trade more legal ..maybe that way the full game can balance the economy someday .
this reminded me...i knew ingame names of most of resellers and was avoiding buying anything from them, my motivation for that was to deny speculants getting even richer. Those were fun times
the actual status is just the omni player that easly conquer the game every update and manage to keep dropping tons of gear , selling perfect gear even for cheap prices ...so what makes all this relevant to me is this balance ...
economy/time/progression ... in order of relevance without good economy people dont bother to play the game , if the time invest is too much people dont bother to play the game , if the progression is too hard people dont play the game!
+ im agree with more machines and mechanics to make gear a sink of kamas , that way people respect some prices and some resources related to those recepies/items ...
if players are grinding too much making dropping so frustrating vs the profit then the big brother have to guide the game to a healthier economy... necessity vs abundance, more balance please...
+how about some gears that can just be purchase on machines and with a limit per month?
is a game not finished and seems still at alpha / beta status when need to rework in small periods of time is because the said changes didnt work at all ... is frustrating
------please
i want to share some my opinion maybe lot of player dont like it maybe like it lets discuss in this reply
i played tons of games and a being part of game industry but that doesnt mean what i write here acceptable.
Nowadays in our world everything give us fast consumable dopamin, wakfu turn based game not a action or like that, so players (mostly new ones) get boring fast (in my opinion). They want try something new, explore the world and being part of the game but todays system not let them what they want. They need good items to being part of party, they need strong items to being part of pvp list
but they need to grind very much (usually i like grind but when its overgrindy or rng im going to burnout) and some of dont want pay.
And my ideas are;
I- Less level. Thats mean new player shouldnt fear the high numbers.
II- Less grind for everyting (i know grind is the best friends for mmorpg's but we can see other games loses players when grind is high (also rng)
III- Party system difficulty. I want to see diffculty scales for party members which 2-4-6 group size not everyone find ppl to talk or be team or just want to play with close friends.
IV- There should be fun end game contents but as i said less grind for try new things.
Actually i cant try new things because items are over priced and no time for craft my own gear over and over again for acceptable rune combination. Actually i love to buy cosmetics and being social.
"Actually i cant try new things because items are over priced and no time for craft my own gear over and over again for acceptable rune combination", agree. Even though I spend a lot of time on Wakfu I've never had time and resources to rune an item. It seems to be something for power players or people already on late game.
Well, before the hero system I, a player not yet in the end game, couldn't find group for anything. I'm glad they implemented the hero system. Also, when you have a support character, like a Feca Protector or a Tanker which you have absolute s**t damage and a lot of resistance/HP, how are you supposed to level up alone compared to people which only play as Damage Dealer (DD)? If you're saying something against the Hero System, you better consider those points before going against it.
"No kama sinks"
As Siu pointed out, the kama sink right now is already being looked upon and I think it's already fine as it is. The only way for it to get better is if they made consumables a more common thing. I never seen someone using/buying consumables other than bread and I guess the Chef profession is in a bad state right now (I might be wrong, tho, but at my current level I don't see why I should waste 40k on a consumable which will be wasted on a single fight and won't make a huge difference). Too many resources for too little benefit. They should use less resources in recipes or increase the amount of product you get form it.
"Death penalties"
You can buy consumables to compensate, which is part of the kama sink.
"Not being able to get stuff just because you don't have specific class in team is just bs"
Totally agree with that. Lately I'm not playing with classes which I like, I'm playing with classes required to do the game content. The balance is non-existent here. Some branches/elements/builds for some classes are totally useless and the punishment for using some passives are way higher than the benefits of using them and there are a lot of bad mechanics and bs right now. Like, what's the point in creating a tanker and investing in a lot of lock if almost every mob have a jump/push.
Well the thing about wakfu is that unlike most MMOs where getting to max level is basicaly a grind gate before you get to the fun stuff, in wakfu getting to max lvl is the core gameplay.
There is nothing to do at the max level because when you get there you finished the game, aside from lowering your level to do low lvl stuff again.
Welp, probably for the best, I'll just keep touching grass I guess, peace.
Um no, most content below 200 isn't abandoned since 90% of players are below lvl 200. It's just sometimes tricky finding a group if you aren't in a big guild.
With the new game coming out; I ask why SHOULD I play with others when I can just throw money at the problem and play solo the entire way through it seems.