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Concerns to the Game's Changes and Effects to the Players

By OsakiYuno#1193 - MEMBER - August 07, 2021, 21:41:23
Moderators, just in case I placed my thread into the wrong place, please to move it to somewhere appropriate. Much appreciated!

Heya fellas, I go by the name Nesuka ingame (Sacrier). A player who used to be a very technical in Phaeris but now just playing the game as a merchant and craftsman. I help the newbies and players who are above level 125. But most of the time I spent my time alone with my sidekicks running low level dungeons and researching their mechs or in my haven bag to farm and craft. Played the game for 4 years. This has become more and more interesting so might as well make it a thread based on my perspective.

I have my fair share of being both a technical player as well as a casual player. With the former being a guy who researches builds and playstyles as well as being a walking encyclopedias of dungeon mechanics and the latter being the guy who goes out making bread for fun while playing with the Nation's stock market. 

I've overlooked the previous issues in the patch thinking that people might just be too aggressive and overreacting with the updates ever since the Enhancement system was implemented. But the 1.73 changes seemed to have been the last straw for me to come out voice out my concerns to the game not as an individual player, but as a player within the community. I'd like you guys to understand my concerns.

I have huge commendable respect to the players that played for more than 7 years to be able to tolerate the updates. Though it is unfortunate that many whom I have known have played that long are long gone due to reasons I won't discuss in this thread, as I have already stated my opinion on two interesting threads on noexperience's thread and tripanya's thread. And also a few of my thoughts on Sacrier's Rework Discussion.

To those who I considered old players (Players who reached level 200 on their first class for over two years) whose class that received a complete change of mechanicsI'd like to ask a few questions regarding the state of the update. However, everyone can answer that question, feel free to do so.
  1. Has it changed your gameplays entirely? (i.e. Equipment, class mechanics, enhancements, PvM fights, PvP fights, party synergy etc.)
  2. If you have worked on some equipment builds for your character previously, has the update brought changes to your builds?
  3.  Are you willing to put effort into your character again post-update?
  4.  Are you having fun?

Alright, straight to the point. If you're upset as to why technical players are this and why casual players are that then I'll advise you don't touch your keyboard. Everyone within the community has their own definition of 'fun'.

Old Players/Veterans' Efforts are not Respected
I've said this in a reply and I'll just copy paste this
"The growth players have put effort on is not respected, the revamp doesn't revolve entirely around the builds they've invested in."

Personally do not care whether there are people within the community (Regardless if it's the devs or the players) who are aware of this, but many of us are already burned out with the amount of efforts we put into the game. The class reworks so far has not been received very well, yet there are still other attempts that further opening the wounds.

The RNG for the enhancements system has its flaws where players will have to gamble for power growth. And it's already ridiculous enough to spend hours just trying to maximize an equipment let alone spending months to grind up materials to purchase, craft, sacrifice, roll, enhance. It may be okay at the first, second or third try. But what happens after reaching the 5th and beyond? Burnout. 

The question would be, how can you enjoy the experience after burning out from all the process? Ah, what if you managed to finish the whole set. Again, I'll take my previous statement from a replied thread. 

"Maybe after accumulating 3, 5 or 9 of the same equipment and you still have to rinse and repeat for the rest of the equipment slot, need I mention that there are other level caps to work on too. Ah, how about the other characters classes?

Noticed how there's no gradual power growth but instead it's a loophole of becoming a gambling addict. Sure, the RNG was previously buffed, but it's still there to waste the players' time in a game they've agreed to invest it. Now what happens once you've fulfilled all of that, very rewarding, it's satisfactory. Perhaps I can finally try and work into the PvP/PvE buil--

And then a class rework happened. Look! a wild new class mechanic appeared where you have to replace one equipment on all levels. Oh, another one. And another one, and another one, and another one..."


Everything progress made was given an 80 steps back, it's no longer worth investing time in. These are for the older players who wanted to hone their builds for the longest time. But what will happen to the mid-game players?

Mid-gamers and their experience (Level 80 -170)
These players are familiar with their classes as well as some incomplete, but still honing builds. A little bit of a lost fellow sometimes but have some ideas.

While the old players still have excess resources to accommodate the things they have to invest on. These players are still creating an investment plan for their power growing experiences. The grinding process they're going to take is going to be a challenging one. As the new enhancement system blocks them from being able to go to new heights from time to time, but that's about it.

Silver lining? We have generous players who sells items at a price and gives items for free. Going into guilds gives you access to the resources the previous players have accumulate, there are levelling services to help them more and even advice given by players, perhaps party runs will ease out the process. Surely, there's no issue on that no? Yeap, everything is solved. They can still be on a safe track. 

And then class revamp. Build? Gone. Plan? Ruined. Effort? Wasted. Hotel? Not gonna dive into that. Again, they're already in the middle of the power building process only to be ruined immediately because of a complete 180 of the class. They, too, are the victims of the overhaul because they were being pushed back all the way to square one. Some would just quit the game entirely and some would tank on the changes, but there are only a small number who can do that. Some transitioned to casual players.

I do have some positive side of view regarding this change towards the mid-game players, but this only applies for players who are tolerate with the changes. Since not all of the contents are revealed due to their level range, they are still pretty much be able to catch up until the late game. The incomplete builds can still undergo changes, a change of investment, thus, saving resources and a bit of time.

Are they enjoying the process though?

Newcomers (Level 20 - 80)
There's nothing much to comment on them since they're still exploring around the World of Twelve and are too busy filling their inventory with "Just in case I don't need it" items. There's not a lot I can think of that could affect them aside from the complete spell changes they received. But if there are any, feel free to respond~

As the passives are still locked these players can still pretty much process with the changes at a slower pace. However, one possibility that could occur is that they will be the isolation by the experienced players. As they are busy going into areas newcomers couldn't go to grind out new content.

Late game casual players such as me still remembered the process of exploring the World of Twelve. However, I previously gone through the questing process thanks to Methodwakfu, which unfortunately is no longer available for me to refer to and had to re-learn it myself, and a bunch of other players I've come across who were familiar with the quest. Despite being able to help these groups out, I still have to at least invest what little effort I have left to my builds, after all. Technical players do not undergo a 100% transition. And that investment could take hours, days, or weeks.

Final Thoughts to the Update (Since Enhancement)
Wakfu is a game where I want to waste my time on. Where investing on it can be worthwhile and a good escape mechanism. Of all tactical turn-based games I've played, this is the best option where I can play a game with a genre I like in a form of an MMO. To me, that's an absolutely brilliant concept. 

However, ever since the enhancement system is implemented it went from a game to waste time on to a game where it feels like a daily chore of grind and gamble. I do see some changes that I personally like such as the UI design, even the pact feature got me interested more in creating builds meant for PvP and PvM. But that doesn't change the fact that we players have been played around, either intentional or unintentional by the revamps that I'm confidently sure we didn't ask for

A well respected Xelor friend of mine that I've played with for 3 years have gone on a hiatus due to the revamp that removed most of the flexible kits they can perform. That is one of examples of players I've played with who stopped because of the revamp. And I'm pretty sure that they are already satisfied with the previous class mechanics. Just needed some smaller tweaks. I repeat, smaller tweaks. The revamping process do felt like it wasn't researched deep enough, it felt like a decision made by the developers themselves without consulting with long time players.

The idea of mine where you have the options to branch out the class' skillsets and passives and changing it back and forth by praying to their respective gods/goddess still remains interesting in my head.

Will I still be playing the game? Of course! It's been a way to hangout with some of my friends despite going solo for most of the time. I still enjoy playing with the Nation market after all. At this point, I'm better off not thinking about the technical parts of the game and be a casual player. But there's no way I can ignore the amount of upset players have towards certain changes.

I've said what I want to say, I'd like to read about your thoughts regarding the game's condition. It would be interesting to see what everybody thinks. Perhaps we can play around that and come up a much better solution. With that. Thank you!
17 -1
Reactions 19
Score : 3589

I personally like the changes they did to my main xelor, the old rng rollback system was super annoying because it meant you had to spam spells to stack it. I just hope they buff summons so that cog xelor will be more viable, as before the rework my main build was a 9 control summoner build and I hope it will be viable again soon

As fpr changes in general, I think changing the meta is good as it keeps the game fresh, as long as the class' strenghts and themes don't get shifted too much

3 -23
Score : 859

There are some class changes where it's received very well, although I didn't play the class, Masqueraider seemed to have pretty good mechanical changes. Still, seeing that there are still some potential tweaks that can be done with the new Xelor goes to show that there are some issues needed considerations.

Meta change is something I can go by any time. It's unfortunate that the game has been updated in a way where the potential of the class has been socially distanced away from the builds players put effort on. It can be time consuming to re-build from scratch to match up, especially when considering the amount of drawback system that are implemented when equipping passives or skills. It's a very tiring and not really an enjoyable process to many.

Of course, there are a part of me that says "Suck it up, git gud". It's something I no longer enjoy doing in the game, might as well give it up and do something you can to enjoy the escapism.

1 -1
Score : 1534

well ..... deep breath^^...:

1-yes
2-indeed
3-yes
4-yes

dont get confused here , maybe the players that had beed around more than 5 years playing this role-game still enjoy it maybe for some kind of mental issue or masochism ^^(im not pretend to insult no one is a sarcastic joke)... i used to play tsr table role games in my childhood  and scince the first time i played dofus or wakfu i just love it for the 2d art , fantasy and the storytelling ...the ankama sense of humor is amazing and thats what i describe it as masochism  by playing a game you fall in love  in parallel the game that 80% punishes you for play .

i understand we all are different and make happy all is really hard.
the pattern here is they punishes more than focus on make player base happy in a majority and basically you feel the changes are more an asset for the 24/7 overpowered players that got annoyed of the game every 6 months ...
why that? well is social and psychological issue that fights completely with the role-game concept itself , let me explain my mind on this topic: 
theres a lot of role-games out there, you can find fast adventures to really hard ones that can take months to accomplish and wakfu have all that  , the problem is that normally when you got a class character in any role-game you get attached to it and in wakfu you cannot do this because time to time they change it , is lame ,totally sad  and more because theres a lot you already customized (emotes,titles,names,strategy ,reputation...) so this is not possible in this game or in order to keep relevant "your"(because is not your account you use a license to use it) character ,you MUST buy a change class scroll .For years i cannot understand this concept of not balancing (using maths) all the classes at the same patch , you see they tune something that disbalance another stuff they didnt think of .... so on this im agree with shadow-partner 
the random overpower player just eats games for breakfast, lunch and dinner they get annoyed too fast for the game developers ....that in my pov is the type of player that demand game developers more effort and thats why wakfu now is a super rng mmo game .Dont misunderstand me , is not good not bad thats the social-psychological i mentioned before , so the overpowered got something while the random or casual player got punished on the character(dignity) and progression on this .

all this said you also have to understand that for years this game had lot of attacks (other games programmers, programmers ,noob-programmers,h a c k s , scammers , kama sellers and all type of TOU rules breakers) , so is also need some emphaty (not symphaty) here to also understand why the game lost in the years lot of its shinning aura ...in perspective the playerbase is guilty of abuse the game than make it better (for those that knows ...you know is true), and for that i know i will get many downvotes  but is true  and if any have some conscience here...well is true , i guess all games have its drama but the community had made all kinds of turn arounds  of the game rules ...thats not the willing community you want for a game (in general)

so is not only blame the devs for their decisions , im agree that the game have to get balance but is a hole wakfu rebalance meanning also the staff and community as a hole to respect and make grater this game and not only for few individuals .

i hope you get another perspective from a Ankama wakfu fan player 
pd: another suggestion here to put on the table is to focus more on security and ban systems on the game many kama sellers use its native language slang to confuse mods and the actual system or why not make kamas a new cryptocurrency ^^many would love to "work" while playing legally (sarcastic joke again)

5 0
Score : 859

Ah right, I forgot to reply the post I've made... Never really paid attention to anything I've made. In response to this, there are a few clarifications needed to make. Paragraph by paragraph.

In my perspective as a casual player, yes. Indeed, some of us are into the masochism this game provides. Some of us, do, indeed, play for the storyline, humour and the aesthetic value the game has to offer However, this satisfies players that are within the casual side of the standpoint. Looking through this at the technical players' point of view paints a different picture to it.

As I've said, the update has no proper research. And I'll explain in full detail as to why I meant that.
1. On the PvM perspective, we have a bunch of classes that runs dungeon as a team, filled with different compositions and builds as well as metas. From there, we can see that there are a bunch of data that can be picked up on to see what makes certain tactics work against the dungeon's mechanics. Be it stupid or smart.

If played from there, the numerous amount of dungeon runs could've been used as a catalyst to pinpoint what can be improved on certain classes. Instead of reworking them thinking that it would be a could idea to remove and replace their kits from flexible to absolutely one sided.

2. IF ignoring the PvP aspect of the game, which, to me, is something that shouldn't be involved in the tweaking of the classes because 1v1 can only prove so much. There are way more opportunities that can be considered in the PvM perspective. That is, unless we see this on a team based PvP, which shows a lot more result.

Of course, I'm not saying that they did 0 research, but the conclusion they made through those 'research' the devs have done is insufficient to justify the decisions they made towards the game.
 
I'll admit that as much as I want to show empathy or sympathy towards the devs. This is something that THEY have to hold responsibility to. Many of the decisions and updates provided by them lacked a lot of player-to-developer (and vice versa) interaction at a deeper scale. 

Keep in mind there are many known histories of them messing up with the updates and decision that made many player to progressively quit playing. Meaning many of us have tolerated to the years of unreasonable patches. Sure, I cannot blame them for it, but someone needs to take accountability for a mistake that already happened or is currently happening. 

Balancing is another topic to discuss, but I'm certainly sure that reworking the whole class does NOT improve the balancing issues the game has over the past few years. I have massive respect towards them to at least have a dialogue between us players and the developers. But the result provided is damaging towards the long time players who actually paid to support the game

I do appreciate the empathetical perspective. But Wakfu is a game where you'll have to be technical to obtain the best results, abnormally change the information they have accumulated for years just demotivates the absolute hell out of the players. So why is it that they did not show anything to those players? Perhaps they didn't noticed, perhaps they were ignorant about it, perhaps we're just labrats to them.

2 0
Score : 11158

As a beta player, I think Wakfu has gone through some deep changes and has improved a lot in terms of gameplay, QoL features and performance, but it still has some serious issues that need to be addressed in order for the game to grow. I'll be honest about the following points.
.

Enchantment: 
Good idea, bad execution

It is amazing that you can customize the character the way you want, but the no-so-good part is the grinding that it requires to achieve certain build and how innaccessible it is for a casual player. 

When I first saw the Devblog I honestly thought "yeah! it looks amazing" but as I tried more and more the system I realized how frustrating (?) it was. Layers and Layers of requeriments collide here: sockets, their color, order, number, the fact that you have to destroy an item that took you hours to create just for a chance to obtain the right combination, the fact that Wakfu lacks a proper Party Finder to steadly farm a dungeon, the fact that not every class performs equally well on certain content, the time it requires to complete a battle, balancing, language, RNG, etc. All these aspects, whether it be directly or indirectly, collide and end up screwing up something that could've been the greatest thing ever. Unless you have your end-game set ready or something that you'll be using for ALS, there is no point is applying a cool sublimation on something you'll drop the next level.

I think the Enchantment should've been delivered in either the form of a Profession that allowed the players to learn the Sublimations and, as the Profession progresses, apply better enchantments to the items OR a passives tree with unlockable effects (lifesteal, ressources refund, more damage, etc). A more inmersive and fluid way than just farming -> creating -> destroying -> rolling -> start again. 

To be honest, when I play games as FF14, TESO or PoE the building of your character just feels so... natural. As you explore and progress, your character gets stronger, it isn't a hassle to customize it. Reinforcing your equipment/stats is something that you eventually do, it isn't a tangent that you have to take. If that makes sense.

In my honest and respectfuly opinion, I think that the idea of making the Enchantment a long-term challenge should be reworked and make it more natural during your playthough.
.
Reworks
.
Maybe it is an unpopular opinion, but I'm all for giving the classes a more strategic playstyle. I really dislike cheesy combos, stuff that you can do without too much trouble and result in strong actions. So far, I think that most of the reworks have given the classes a more interesting playstyle, Foggernaut and Xelors are a good example of that. I think reworks are needed, not because of the meta but because it makes them richer in terms of playstyle and strategy. In that sense, I haven't feel like they've completely destroyed my character. BUT, I also believe that forcing playstyles with Debuffs isn't the way to go either. 

That being said, I understand why many players feel frustrated when their classes get touched and I think Devs should consider that frustration too. It wouldn't hurt Ankama to gift a character-linked Class Change after a rework to 1).- Ease the frustration of the player 2).- to show appreciation to the community. It isn't fast to level up and gear up a character in Wakfu, a rework can change entirely the way you play a class and it will not always please everyone. Also the Class Change is very overpriced in the Store.

I feel like the players would feel less frustrated and the reworks would feel less like a nerf/cripple if the passives enhanced your spells rather than being a direct debuff to your own stats. Xelor's Momentary Permutation and Slowdown of Time are a good example of what I mean: Both passives enhance the way you play a class but don't affect your stats in any negative way, not even in a positive way, they just add new functionalities to your spells. Another examples would be adding a passive to Sadidas to turn the Voodooll into a summon that could only be linked to allies and redirected the heals to them, or a passive that allowed Enis to summon 2 bunnies at the same time but with reduced healing or even place Marks on the floor for indirect buffs. Things that would enhance your playstyle through new effects rather than being forced into it due to debuffs.

I think these answer question 1 & 2.

About 3 and 4: To be honest, I wouldn't invest too much time on the character. The thing is, as I said before, Wakfu is starting to feel like a part-time job. I'm mostly playing Wakfu as a Casual player so it doesn't really appeal me to spend that little time in farming ressources or looking for group for hours. I like the game but considering that it is missing some key elements I usually don't play more than 1 or 2 hours when I open it.

If it had a decent group finder, a matchmaking system and a more fluid character building system, I won't lie I would be playing this game a lot more and even feel motivated to stream it trying new team compositions, classes, builds, sublimations, spells, etc and I think many other players would too.

I do hope it continues growing, Devs have been doing a pretty good job lately, the Shop has been brought back to life and I can see how the staff is listening to what the community has to say. I hope they keep going in the right direction.
9 -11
Score : 29

I do agree with you on the equipment comparison with FF14, Wakfu requires a ton of investment both time and money, but also in luck to get a decent set. Then even more to get a good set and even more to get a perfect set for your level slice. At the same time 75% of the equipment is useless due to quality levels...If they just tuned it down to 2(like ff14, regular and rare) it would be a bit less bad (but still not very good).
It's just morphing slowly into a generic MMO with extra features in my opinion, which is a shame.

2 0
Score : 9401

I understand why your friend left. My Xelor friends also left the game after the revamp. I believe that updating a class is a process of dialogue between the developer and the players, and if the players are able to criticize, then they should argue their position, as well as suggest possible directions for improving the discussed problems.
I feel like my gameplay has changed. The fact is that I used to feel freer in the positioning role. Like many of Xelors who left, we loved our opportunities. We even joked that we didn't have enough time because we could do so much. There were different bulds (Xelor excess, inflex Xelor, Xelor summoner with 9-12 sinistro, Xelor exhausters, etc.). Now for me all Xelors are the same. They all do damage and spam distortion, spam hand and hammer. They no longer position allies. They can no longer give action points and at same time taking them from enemies. No more mummification.
I had to rebuild and no longer play with 10 AP, because the old Xelor could compensate 10 AP with a Rollback system and combos to add action points to himself.
I had to change the build and buy an eternal sword to be more tenacious.
After the update, I tried to draw attention to the fact that Xelor has problems with passives and spells. Many players have supported and wrote a lot messages.
The developers have listened to the community and made some great changes in passives and spells for Xelor.
You can tell your friend that he could try Xelor in 1.73. update. 

14 -5
Score : 3101

 

OsakiYuno#1193|2021-08-08 19:26:27


The spell levelling system sounded legitimately cool not gonna lie. Actually never heard of this on any other games aside from games that involved crafting the same item to level it up. What was the issue that made it removed? Though personally, I do have a preference in the current levelling system. 



There was another game I played before which is probably dead by now that had a spell leveling system where the more you use a spell the higher its level- Flyff. To be honest I prefer the spell deck system for multiple reason

-Reversibility of build - when spells were levelled, they occupied an amount of experience gained towards the total amount of experience points cap of your current level. That means that a spell which you don't particularly like in your build, but is very versatile might gain too much experience over your actual damaging spells or build spells, and limit the number of levels they can go up by. As a newbie player this can be devastating as you aren't sure what the spells do yet, but by using those spells you are already committing exp towards those spells.

-Specialisation of roles - instead of all 20 spells being accessible to you, only a mixture of 12 active and elemental spells are. These means that players either commit to making 1-3 builds and relay other roles to other party members, incentivizing teamplay and specialisation, and/or they pay ankama for more spell pages to make different builds, which keeps the game afloat. It also narrows the focus of what a player can do on their turn, reducing analysis paralysis.

-Less grind- leveling up the character is already a pain- leveling the spells adds another level of grinding.

Of course, some players still have preference towards the old system, and that's fine too. But my personal opinion is that the spell deck system changed the game for the better.
4 0
Score : 818

Thanks for making this thread.

Here are my honest thoughts and opinions as someone who played Wakfu since 2014 – retired in mid 2016  – came back since last server merge.

  1. [*]Has it changed your gameplays entirely? (i.e. Equipment, class mechanics, enhancements, PvM fights, PvP fights, party synergy etc.)

    Yes of course!  I still remember the old days when everything was so much simpler and linear. There are pros and cons in this, no doubt. In the old days, there was only one or two ways to build a class, and everyone was using the same set. The current Wakfu allows players to build their characters uniquely, which brings us to my answer regarding the next question....

    (And not to mention, Cra was super weak before spell deck came in.)


    [*]If you have worked on some equipment builds for your character previously, has the update brought changes to your builds?

    The way Wakfu is currently,... DEFINITELY YES. It's a disaster, in fact. As the game evolves and with the enchantment system, classes can go different routes based on your personal preference and what is available at the point of time. Which is why, any updates be it on classes or like the recent enchantment updates,  will affect our current builds and we will then be forced to re-gear/re-build everything

    It's tiring, if you think about it. Players always work towards the most efficient way to play their classes and they succeed. And then the devs come in to alter the classes; removing/altering certain spells that players use to make the classes strong that THEY created in the first place. I just don't get it. Sounds more like trolling, to me.

    I honestly urge the devs to think thoroughly what the impacts are on existing players for every update and not brush it away as "making it more friendly for new users". If you want to sacrifice your existing high-level players for the sake of new players, I gotta be frank, I don't want to be part of this narrative. All I care is that my time and money spent to build my characters is thrown into the gutter just like that. It's disrespectful and demoralizing.


    [*] Are you willing to put effort into your character again post-update?

    I've just read the class rebalancing updates, and no, I won't. I will quit. See how I'm no longer on booster mode?



    [*] Are you having fun?

    The only fun are the other high-level players that I get to know and play with.  So... all hail newbies? *chuckles* Sure.
9 -2
Score : 2011

Is broadly know that veterans leave the game and come back time later, sometimes years later. Wakfu is that mix of mismanagement and charming game.

2 -1
Score : 818

Yes and no.

The reason a bunch of old players returned was for the long-awaited server merge. After only less than a year, all of us have, again, lost interest.

... I doubt there's anything left up their sleeve to "hook" us. lol

5 -2
Score : 2709

To “Hook” us. I see what you did there.

2 0
Score : 2011

 

sycowellmaster#9927|2021-08-23 18:20:24
Yes and no.

The reason a bunch of old players returned was for the long-awaited server merge. After only less than a year, all of us have, again, lost interest.

... I doubt there's anything left up their sleeve to "hook" us. lol


The server merge is not the first and probably not the last 'big' event in Wakfu, there have been others like when the Asian server opened, when the game became free-to-play, elimination of key mechanics, the Astrub and nations revamp, etc.

I suggest you to not talk in name of all community otherwise you might sound coincited.
1 -2
Score : 818

I was from Phaeris/Asian server. I watched as my server died due to countless unfortunate events. So, what are your points?

When the server merge news was announced, even the oldest of the oldest Phaeris players tried to rejoin the game. That didn't last long of course. They complained that they have to re-learn the game & classes, to which I told them to relax and just treat it as a new game like I did. But it's not easy, yeah, it requires too much time & effort to get to end game. What's worse is, once you get to end-game builds, your builds that you've worked so hard for are at higher risk of being butchered to oblivion as the class revamps/rebalancing come very so often.

If you're wondering what's the turnover rate of the old returning players that I know, most did not even bother to try to re-learn. Give it a month at most. This only means most of us just don't like it when when our classes that we loved so much suddenly became an entirely new class. They're probably doing a good job at making newcomers try the "new" classes, but fail to hook old players back to the game. This is the game company's direction, anyway, to make it more newbie-friendly as they claim. Let it rest.

9 -2
Score : 1938

Honestly, after the recent changes on the Rogue and Enu, I slowly stop being active playing the game, then the Xelor and Revamp happened and that really demotivated me to play anymore. Because the recent changes felt like the devs don't really care about the player's efforts in their time and money in investing the best equipment and builds. This game has already given me mental torture instead of enjoying the game after a hard day of work. 

  1. Yes, and it has made long time players stopped playing.
  2. Yes, it ruined everything.
  3.  No, it's already too much, I'm tired of grinding to farm equips and materials better find another game that would value your efforts. 
  4.  No, Im completely lost after logging in, the changes are just too much to take especially in my case that I almost have all the classes that were hit by the recent revamps. 
6 0
Score : 4857
  1. Has it changed your gameplays entirely? (i.e. Equipment, class mechanics, enhancements, PvM fights, PvP fights, party synergy etc.)
  2. If you have worked on some equipment builds for your character previously, has the update brought changes to your builds?
  3.  Are you willing to put effort into your character again post-update?
  4.  Are you having fun?


1. Hmm, I had originally quit because of Rogue revamp like 3 years ago, came back last year and I play off and on. The only thing that annoys me is the prevalence of -resist. Now I have a member on my team that uses -resist and does some minor debuffing. THEN I have to attack that specific mob.
2. With this new Eca update, yes. AoE Eca sucks now. But Eca is better for it since AoE Eca had a boring playstyle and a prevalent one.
3. Well, yes. Eca is better than before and more fun. Three card spam was dumb.
4. I guess, I mean what I like in the game is still there. If I didn't have a super systematic way of playing due to the supporting, I think I'd have more fun.
3 0
Score : 1394
  1. Yes
  2. Yes
  3. Maybe
  4. No

I don't care about building or gearing up chars once again from scratch , it's pretty easy for a six-boxer plus you don't even need to rely on buying items. The thing is that not only there isn't actual things to do outside dungeons but that as a veteran player i'm not motivated enough to play the game.

The ALS system is boring  , it recquires you to lower your lvl and use classes that withouth certain subs or stats are useless, some stats such WP are almost inexistent at low lvl ranges and you MUST clear those low lvl dungeons as an ENDGAME player in order to get your optimal gear. This issue is just being reinforced because of how the devs are reworking classes , everything has strong maluses , at high lvl it's not that bad since you can reduce them by using subs or specific gear , doesn't happen on ALS tho , added to the reduced number of passives slots or access to certain of them is really cringe and not appealing at all for ME and many of my friends.

The new rifts system is pretty interesting , sadly it's only a 2 times things to do because the only useful thing about them is the subs drop , which many of them are just useless immo and added as fillers, dungeons still have the best subs of the game . Plus they are reaaaaaaaalllyyyyy sloooooww , 40t in order to clear them takes around 1h30min for the high lv ones , you can clear around 3 dungeons s31 with triple stheles in that time , it's just a grind-fest filled with RNG mechanic that reinforces using meta classes.

You can't really get epic-relic subs by using your normal team , just because of how the ALS system is made you pretty much end up abusing the same classes in order to classify in the highest ranking to achieve the best chest Loots. This means that the game it self doesn't encourage ppl by making different builds for their chars because of how restricted the enchantment system is. Also it's funny how a 1turn UB can give better chests than end-game dungeons which recquire infinitely more preparation and time.

PvP recquires very specific builds too , plus it's just useless for players growth , it gives 0 , nothing useful or good for players to actually have interest in joining BG's or doing pacts for the PvP , pacts are just an incentive for farming more with almost 0 risk if played with guildmates, they have the pvp part just as an extra. I won't mention how unbalanced it is for players that decided to play their mains and end up being in the bad side of the meta , (a.k.a new distance classes vs meta-tank players in the 2x2  map battles.)


In this upcoming patch the problem only gets bigger, certain classes that recquired a whole rework are getting nerfed just because they "spammed one spell" , maybe if they actually had more reliable tools to use ppl wouldn't be using the same spell over and over again , but yet we only get their legs cut off to make the gameplay "more variate".
 
It's annoying to change the classes you like because of how outdated they get compared to some of them that had the luck to enter the meta or even CHANGE it. If you want to play the game in an optimal state that's the way to go.

Almost every system in the game is outdated , not only the issues I stated on this post: "  https://www.wakfu.com/en/forum/8-general-discussions/241439-explaining-dev-team-why-you-can-nerf-classes-this-state-game?page=1 "
but also more important ones such the Wakfu/Stasis % bar , ecosystem , politics,more mini games.
It was supposed to be the core mechanic of the game , the thing that made it different from other MMO's and Dofus it self.
Yet sadly we have as politics a system in which one bored person with 30 farmed chars votes to get the government crown and afk on their nation because their main role is to control whether it will rain or not in certain zones.
And we understand as ecosystem : Staying afk in certain zones until the challenge you where waiting for pops-up to clear it in order to finish 1 achievement , repeat  20 times for each existing zone. Or using haven bag for farming resources because it's almost never  a good idea to farm outside unless you're forced to for mining or fishing.

And talking about achievements: They are all so repetitive , outdated and lacking actual player progress , they don't even work as a guidance for players in order to search what they want to do in the game. Plus , has anyone noticed that the events bar only gets higher because of the boss smasher monthly event? they don't even appear there but yet you get the OCD factor by not seeing your bar full because you didn't do an ALS event that you will not be able to do ever again.


When did I last have fun? With the new quest lines for example (turq dofus , thanks Womsky for the pandora carry , I refuse doing ALS.) or when the environmental challenges such osamosa invasions or thirsters were a thing , immo no one really cares about them because once again their loot is not that good or appealing so the small existing player base won't really bother doing them.

I'll finish talking about the UB's , an ultimate boss that you as an ALS player can clear in 1 turn, abusing the use of one class that suits optimally there yet actual veteran players can't join because they need to lower their lvl in order to re-do that content. As matter of facts , ogrest bar isn't getting filled anymore because of the ALS bug removal , this just proves that a lot of players don't like investing their time optimizing their end-game gear to then get forced to ALS for specific dungeons or quests.

The last month it took 23 days for the bar gauge to fill , this states it all.


TL ; DR : I despise ALS system , I don't mind farming if the experience is fun or productive(a.k.a you actually see progression) , PvP is not something to be considered as an actual activity to invest time in it because of how unbalanced or unproductive it is , many core systems are outdated and therefore not appealing.  exclThis is MY point of view of the game which I share with some of my friends. I do Like the game , but it's more of a casual playtime since being competitive has lost my interest in it after a few years.excl

My played time on my main as proof of knowing what i'm stating: 


I've Been Lv 200 since the moon island release

 Edit:
The lv215 was totally unnecessary , a huge amount of items that almost no one uses because of how they were designed ,no UB up to date and the excuse to add it was something like ->We have many lv200 items , we can't make more.
We could've recieved many more reworks and updates or even new items around specific states such the nation swords or shushu ones ,weapon skills/effects , new skills such the hupper school ones,  yet the lv cap increase only means it's better to extend the number of content that veteran players will finish in 1 month than rework the things the game lacks, it also means there is gonna be a lv230. I personally see the divine branch something lazy to add even if i've played it entirely , it could've been added to the lv200 with tweaks and other elements, it just recquires a bit of imagination.

Plus up to date , almost every build still uses lv200 items because they are better than the 215 ones ._.

Sadly there is no going back it's already so far into the game , similar to the forced ALS system.

I want to remember the player base too that we did fulfill a Poll about if we wanted the lv215 or not , a few days later they did what they wanted , our opinion didn't matter , it was already established.

WAKFU DOESN'T HAVE END-GAME , It's all about going back doing ALS for PvP or even to gear up for a zone that will only last around 1-2 years. It's a normal thing that the game doesn't get to keep their veterans, everything is against them.
14 -2
Score : 818

Pretty much it.

I came back since merge and being the competitive player as I always have been, I grinded nonstop and fully geared my entire line up. No joke.

I must say I regretted this so badly. Waste of my time & money.
After about 4 months back into the game, huge changes kicked in (some class reworks + enchantment updates) together with the addition of dimensional rift.
I immediately just stopped playing and can't be bothered anymore.

And I'm just... glad that I learnt my lesson. 'Cus god forbid, just shortly after that, 1.73 is coming with intense class reworks again. Lol.
God bless whoever that have re-geared their chars halfway or fully.

---

Good luck, folks. This is definitely not a game for competitive players.
To casual players, if you're having fun, good for you.
 

3 -1
Score : 270

I'm an absolute casual player, never hardcore grinded, never really put much effort in gearing, always going super slow with my chars (currently 171).
I played for half a year in 2012 started with my Sac and made a Sadida, picked the game up again in 2018 created my Elio (now main) stopped after a year and picked it up again now in 2021.
My perspective might lack the depth more hardcore players have, but the way things are going currently are going to effect me even as a absolut casual player greatly.

    [*]Has it changed your gameplays entirely? (i.e. Equipment, class mechanics, enhancements, PvM fights, PvP fights, party synergy etc.)
    Yes.
    So far the reworks mainly concernd my Sadida. I didn't really dare to relearn her in 2018 and only now I realearned her to play her as pure support without any doll opposed to my doll build in 2012. 
    The memories of how the Sac used to be in 2012 were hazy for me (luckly, I guess) but I remember being more flexible in positioning and everything was simpler. It was weird coming back but I didn't mind it getting more complex.
    [*]If you have worked on some equipment builds for your character previously, has the update brought changes to your builds?
    Not yet but it will, looking at the beta
    [*] Are you willing to put effort into your character again post-update?
    No.
    In the coming update two of my three characters will change so much that the playstyles I choose to play them in aren't viable anymore.
    My Single Target Distance Elio will be rendered useless as things look now. The concerns raised by the community especially regarding this build and their arguments seemingly felt on deaf ears. The devs made some tweaks but in a manner that makes it clear to me that the current game designers have a different idea about the class then the current players and the game designers that initially created the class. I have no interest in playing a completly different playstyle to just make my Elio viable so the update might very well be his death.
    It's similar for my Sacrier. She's an Air/Fire build and the Air branch is getting nerfed hard. Not speaking of all the other stuff that's going to happen with that rework. 
    I'm sure this is what most Xelor and Rogue mains have gone through.

    I'm frustrated at what happens with this game currently. On one side I see a small yet passionate community activily giving grounded feedback, raising well reasoned concerns, voicing what they are looking for and fighting for the game they love. On the other side I see the current game devs that seemingly have a different idea about the classes and mechanics then a few years ago, which makes me assume it's an enterily new team of game designers then a few years ago. They seem to be dead set on how classes should be played, effectively disreagarding how the classes are played until now and what the community likes about them. Their reasoning for spell limitiations alone is proof for them wanting to force their ideas on how the class is to be played on to the player. 
    There are threads for us to discuss updates, seemingly watched by the devs but in the end it's like shouting into a void. The only answer we get is a new changelog making small adjustments but igonre what the community considers the core problems.
    This isn't necessarily how it really is, maybe the game devs are listening way more and are really eager to improve the game they have a lot of passion for like we do.
    But this isn't what I as a player feel. I feel frustration about how it is and even more frustration because I cannot understand why, as these reworks kill the game with the amount of players leaving with every rework.

    [*] Are you having fun?
    At the moment? it's fine with my classes as a super casual player
    Looking at the coming update? No, I'll most likely stop after that
4 0
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