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ALS

By BloodAspect#6628 - MEMBER - August 13, 2020, 02:44:19

ALS (adjustable level system). A feature added by ankama to give relevance to low level content.

I'd like to start off by saying that als isn't for everyone. Some people like it; some people dislike it. 

I'm someone who dislikes als, I avoid it as much as I can. There's just something about being forced to downgrade your characters that feels unsettling for me. I won't bother going in depth about the time wasted in farming gear, wasting shards and subbing multiple characters in the desired level bracket(s). 

If als wasn't such a mandatory system I likely wouldn't have made this post. 

Some may argue that als isn't mandatory/forced but it is. The best way to obtain epic/relic subs is through the dungeon rankings. Unless someone can place top 1 in all 4 level 215 dungeons - they shouldn't expect more 1 sub each month (and that's being generous). 

Then we have the ogrest's wrath relic quest which isn't that hard to do even though it requires a lot of time. Time where a level 200 quest must be completed with a level below 200

Lastly we have the main reason why forced als sucks. This reason makes both prior points completely trivial in light of this one. Forced als on ultimate bosses. This is insanely...iop. The dungeons known to be hard, challenging, the best of the best...can only be won with characters with reduced stats. What a joke! Ogrest, Nogord, Shadowfang. The top 3 UBs that are currently in the game require the best players...to become weaker. 

I've given my opinion and feelings on the matter and i'm happier with this forum out there even if nothing changes. 

If you miss running steelbeak, dragon pig, magmog etc without having to farm gear all over again feel free to comment down below.

Long live Sufokia!











 

7 -3
Reactions 14
Score : 9228

ALS:
General Idea: adjust character strength to not overshadow lower level players you play with to have a more "equal" game experience, if desired ------- Good

Excecution: just horrible 
- the automated pages are simply inadequat (healing mastery on a Feca????)
- getting a decent equipment page together takes more time then passing through some of those level brackets (among other things, due to the latest crafting iteration)
- the lower UB might become "too" easy for high level players, but Steelbeak (not even mentioning moon here...) can still wipe out a full lvl 200 party if they are not careful, so why are you forcing us to get even weaker for him??

ALS could have been an awesome aspect of the game, if the stats and everything would have been somehow calculated/determind by the stats the character had at his current real level, but they HAD to use that page-system...

PS: I have not played in half a year now, but as far as i know, every one of these points still hits the mark.

8 0
Score : 10038

UBs implement it to stop people facerolling them with overlevelled/overgeared characters. Actually having to contend with the mechanics is the entire point of UBs. No amount of kvetching will convince me that people 1-turning the lower level UBs is the way it should be. Auto-emblems could stand to be a bit better (as is they're really, really bad), for one it could present a choice of Ranged/Aoe/Melee/ST/Tank/Healer emblems and shore up the bonus stats a bit. They'd still put you behind any halfway decent set.

Overall though I think ALS has been one of the best additions to the game for ages, it has rewards which are relevant, provides additional reasons to visit lower level content, and provides an entirely different thing to focus on (making comparatively cheap and quick optimal lower level sets) instead of slogging away at endgame stuff. Miles better than another cookie-cutter endgame island or one and done content like the Huppermage Academy.

10 -4
Score : 1931

I'd consider your point if you weren't merely level 200. You've never had to adjust your level for UBs. In fact, you've probably never even done Ogrest, Shadowfang or Nogord. Once you hit level 215 you'll understand that NO ONE wants to farm another set (level 200) just to be able to play a few select dungeons. Yet, if you do farm level a level 200 set - you need to find 5 more characters with 200 sets to run that those UBs. Once you've experienced those hardships, I'll take your view in consideration. 

2 -3
Score : 501

Personally I have no problem with UBs the way it is. Prior to forced ALS, people were just steamrolling it like there is no tomorrow that the challenges and mechanics incorporated into those bosses just became pointless. After ALS became mandatory, we were actually forming teams and gearing for those levels just so we could one up each other on the permanent leaderboards.

UBs are meant to be challenging, not to be a one-off thing that should be dismissed once you've moved past that level.

Though there are quite a number of things I think could be improved about this system:

Pros

  • It gives late game players some incentives to play with lower and mid level players at the same power level.
  • Not being able to carry / plow through these bosses give newer players an impression that 'getting stronger' is also a matter of mastery of their own class + PvE mechanics, not just a matter of leveling up and getting the best equipment, thus preparing them for more challenging dungeons/bosses late game.
  • It's still doable at lower stasis with emblems if you're not a fan of gearing up.

Cons:
  • 6/5/4/3 man teams shouldn't be competing with 2*3 or 1*6 boxers on the leaderboards. The game should incentivize players who team up with other players to encourage player interaction.
  • Gearing for every level bracket became more tedious and unfun after the new enchantment system was introduced. Prior to the enchantment system, I personally have spent most of my time grinding for these level brackets so people would invite me to ALS runs, now that this RNG element is introduced into the mix, a lot of my effort just goes to waste that I became less motivated to do it. Even the most dedicated players in our server (Phaeris) just chose to move on from the game because of it, which leads to the next point:
  • It's hard to form a decent team to play on higher stasis. The team finder system in Wakfu is unusable / My server is just too dead for it.
  • The auto emblem system is inadequate for some classes. Give players a variety of emblems to choose from like the poster above me have suggested, or mine some data on existing player builds + stat pages, generalize it into one build for each class in each level bracket, and apply some sort power cap so that it doesn't perform better than players who have actually bought pages and grinded for their own gears, although the latter might too much hassle for a small dev team.

Just my two cents.

 
9 0
Score : 9372

I had to make an entire lv200 page to get through Mineral Tower, my level? 202! And guess what... none of my gear is above lv 200, so now only I lost overall 50% of my damage with ALS, I had to create a completely redundant build just to get my stats at a DECENT level for this dungeon. And good news and bad news, my Hupper just leveled up to 201 this latest Mineral run, so... I'll have to make her a page too xD

2 0
Score : 2088

i don't quite understand your statement here. if your gears are below 200, then you can just use them can't you? how does making a page that shaves 1-2 level cause you to lose 50% of your damage if the only difference is just the few stat points? unless you mean that majority of your gears are higher than 200, then i see your point.

0 0
Score : 221

The stat of gears that ALS automatically give should at least able to do all dungeons in stasis 1 as they were claimed to be the average gear stat of that level, which don't seem to be possible.

0 0
Score : 3727

considering I've seen people do boss smasher (stasis 21, ALS) with 6 players all using an automatic build, it sounds quite possible (but yes it is much harder then with gear)

1 0
Score : 1931

I've talked to Siu, and it appears that he has no intention of removing the ALS lock on UBs. This is very unfortunate news because it means that UBs such as Shadowfang/Ogrest/Nogord will remain exclusive content for those dedicated players who farmed for 200 sets. Therefore, our only hope of tackling a UB (without spending insane kamas to play 200 content) will be to wait for the 215 UB if one appears. Yet, that UB will become locked behind ALS once they raise the level cap again - so keep that in mind. 

 

wakelio#8886|2021-09-24 23:29:41
        @BloodAspect#6628 If you can't consider others' points of view  then it makes it seems like you're just complaining and if so, what is the point of the post?pensive
         Saying things such as "If you weren't merely level 200."  has little relevance since UB's come in to play at different levels as well. Also saying things such as "No one wants to farm another set" doesn't make any valid point. One could also say "No one wants to grind to lv.215" or "No one wants to improve their professions" "No one wants the Osa update coming soon." therefore over generalizing doesn't help your case.
          It seems to me that you want the nice rewardsbiggrin, but don't want to go through the process to get itsad .Therefore, it sucks since you can't 1-shot UB's like a baby tofu. 
         ALS forces people to play differently, gives lower levels an opportunity to NOT be carried, encourages players to run dungeons they haven't ran in awhile, boosts the Wakfu economy (selling of low level sets) and whether it's considered fun to you or not is your opinion. I personally believe improvements can be made like Tiefoone said to make it a better and more enjoyable. He also gave some great suggestions without seeming condescending.


Haha, you seem to be getting the wrong idea. I do consider other peoples point of view...but there are some people who have no idea what they're talking about - like you for example. Your highest character is a level 120 Eca, you haven't even started playing the game tbh so the problem I'm talking about isn't something you've encountered yet. Once you realize how hard it is to gear a character you'll understand that it's ridiculous that some content is locked behind a full "6 character 200 gear set". As for your mention that people would just 1 shot UBs - so what? Players should be able to 1 shot UBs. Players invested the time and energy to reach that level of strength. Right now people avoid those lower level UBs because the rewards are trivial compared to the time it would take to gear 6 characters. Yet, this notion only applies to those lower level UBs. Shadowfang, Ogrest and Nogord are hard dungeons that can pose a challenge to level 215s despite being level 200 content. I should also mention that some level 215 gear is only available through those UBs. This means that players have to have a full 200 build (x6) if they want to attempt (once a week) their luck at dropping gear for their 215 build. Does that actually make sense? No. A player shouldn't be REQUIRED to have 200 gear to run 200 content to obtain 215 gear. This game is already exhausting as it is. You need to sacrifice multiple items just to get 4 slot, then you need to sacrifice even more just to get the colours you need, then you need to farm the sublimation that goes on this item. Do this 10 times and you're almost done 1 build. Then you need to spend 50 days to level your pets (unless you spend irl money), you need to buy a dagger/shield (if you don't have a 2 handed weapon), and you need to grind an emblem. Then the game forces you to run ALS (grinding entire level brackets) just to potentially drop epic/relic sublimations. Then once you've done that you have 1 full build character. Congrats. Now repeat it at least 2 more times so that you can run content with someone else. 
1 0
Score : 2088

best argument here is probably only from Atrutha#8414.  all the others are just people complaining about UBs being level locked [especially more so for 200s rather than overall] or how hard it is to gear with the new enchantment system, and how 215 is intertwined with 200 and not having 200 build is making your life so much harder, Which all of these can be a contributing factor why als is problematic, but not why it is the actual problem.

Level locked UBs
i agree, Ultimate bosses shouldn't have to be level locked. let als be there for competitive just as it is for normal dungeons, but intentionally locking them for als only is definitely the worst thing they could've done. Veteran player still come there every week even though the reward is trivial before, they can help out newbies along the way too. heck my "inactive" guild leader used to just come online to play with guild mates by carrying them on UBs. but now he can't do that. One shotting low level UBs as BloodAspect#6628 mentioned is fine because Players invested the time and energy to reach that level of strength. and Steelbeak being able to wipe out level 200 party is a non argument. UBs should be challenging, it should be strong. rather than level locking it, might as well let it scale with the team level like how tormentor dungeon works. or better yet remove the level lock. just by doing this it'd already fix your end game 200+ problems.

Gearing / enchantment
Is it the best system now, or is it better than the last system? debate able. is it actually a problem for ALS though? none of you provided a decent argument for this on lower level besides your troubles having to gear for 200 set. it is a contributing factor why some people shy away from als, but doesn't mean some other people aren't drawn to it. discounting every other opinion just because it doesn't align with your interest is not helping anyone. Every level bracket have to deal with this system. it's a universal problem everyone have to go through no matter the level bracket. now why is als problematic for this? because the gears you guys need are level locked with UBs. hence again why UBs are constantly brought up here [especially lvl 200] instead of the actual ALS system it self.

The ALS it self
The only problem directly correlated to ALS that people actually touched on here is the Auto emblems. it's certainly not perfect, but they work just enough so that you can clear the dungeons you are running. and they are just that, automatic emblems/ stats that given to player that wants to run lower level brackets without having to sacrifice their time and effort to compete in the leaderboards. It is working as intended. if you are arguing if it could be better? then of course, giving players the ability to distribute the points them self is one thing. it'll let people be more flexible and more well equipped than the random stats thats pre determined. but if your argument is to just let people steamroll with auto build, then that's nonsense.

Pros of ALS
"Pros

  • It gives late game players some incentives to play with lower and mid level players at the same power level.
  • Not being able to carry / plow through these bosses give newer players an impression that 'getting stronger' is also a matter of mastery of their own class + PvE mechanics, not just a matter of leveling up and getting the best equipment, thus preparing them for more challenging dungeons/bosses late game.
  • It's still doable at lower stasis with emblems if you're not a fan of gearing up."

this are quite adequate but doesn't encompass all the benefit ALS provided to the game. while I also tend to brush off lower level "opinions" because honestly most of the time they don't know what they're talking about, but disregarding the very valid points Tiefoone#2485 and wakelio#8886 isn't helping anyone or provides any meaningful arguments about the ALS system it self.

"it has rewards which are relevant, provides additional reasons to visit lower level content, and provides an entirely different thing to focus on (making comparatively cheap and quick optimal lower level sets) instead of slogging away at endgame stuff."

"ALS forces people to play differently, gives lower levels an opportunity to NOT be carried, encourages players to run dungeons they haven't ran in awhile, boosts the Wakfu economy"

which of these Pros do you think is invalid?
  • It gives relevant rewards both for lower level/newer player, and for high end/veteran players
  • the builds are comparitively cheap, quick, optimal than just having to do a constant power level and gear grindfest on the very last level bracket. which means its easier for newer player to also get into the game in a competitive fashion
  • plethora different scenario, tactics, gameplay, and playstyle that people can engross themselves on and be able to do at high level competitive manner. thus getting to know overall how the game works in a deeper level
  • Boosts the wakfu economy overall. do you realize how important this is? having and active and bustling economy is in my opinion one of the most important aspect a game/mmo needs to have. people that actually know what they are doing and done their research can make money off low lever gears and that lets them progress in the game on a healthy manner. [example moogr gears, shell epic from 50 mineral. some people even monopolize this if you check the market frequently] its way better than just a constant power leveling trips and not knowing how to play the game at level 200+. they are incentivised to know and learn the level brackets that they are going through rather than just blazing through getting power leveled and being a clueless level 200+ newbies.
  • Lower level players, actually lower their level themselves to get an optimized gear and build on level bracket lower then theirs and compete in the leaderboards or battlefields. this adds an extra layer of gameplay for them instead of a non ending rush to max level. If you actually mingle and play together with your lower level friends/guildmates surely you know this is true.
  • while this system is quite clearly and obviously not targetted for newer players, they are still able to join in and compete to experience the competitive nature of the game. and if lucky, gets a major boost to their arsenal or economy by getting rare runes.

now some of you might scoff at me because half of my opinion shows how more beneficial ALS is for lower level or new players, but you gotta look at the bigger picture here. what does new player bring to the game? they bring more player count, more party opportunity, stimulates more of the economy, more importantly it brings customers and real money to the company and support the continuation/livelihood of the game itself.

Cons of ALS
"
  • 6/5/4/3 man teams shouldn't be competing with 2*3 or 1*6 boxers on the leaderboards. The game should incentivize players who team up with other players to encourage player interaction.
  • Gearing for every level bracket became more tedious and unfun after the new enchantment system was introduced. Prior to the enchantment system, I personally have spent most of my time grinding for these level brackets so people would invite me to ALS runs, now that this RNG element is introduced into the mix, a lot of my effort just goes to waste that I became less motivated to do it. Even the most dedicated players in our server (Phaeris) just chose to move on from the game because of it, which leads to the next point:
  • It's hard to form a decent team to play on higher stasis. The team finder system in Wakfu is unusable / My server is just too dead for it.
  • The auto emblem system is inadequate for some classes. Give players a variety of emblems to choose from like the poster above me have suggested, or mine some data on existing player builds + stat pages, generalize it into one build for each class in each level bracket, and apply some sort power cap so that it doesn't perform better than players who have actually bought pages and grinded for their own gears, although the latter might too much hassle for a small dev team.
"

my two cents on these cons
  • [*]competing in leader boards with 2*3 or 1*6 boxers on the leaderboards.  its how the game has been gradually converted by the devs to bandaid their problem with player population. it also helps hardcore grinder because lets be real, you wouldn't want to spend hours trying to grind something that your party might not have the slightest idea how the mechanics works.

    plus, ALS actually incentivise people to group up rather than not because its easier to prepare for 1-2 character rather than a full blown 6 man solo army. that doesn't and will not change the fact that hardcore grinder will make 6 or even more army and spam all kind of level ranges for the monthly rewards. this is a non argument for ALS it self.
  • new enchantment is unfun and grindy. this again as i mentioned is a universal challenge every level bracket have to go through with increasing difficulty the higher your level are. so it actually helps people that are stuck on the constant end game grindfest. end game gears are multitudes harder in difficulty to obtain and way more expensive.  just a single optimised gear of level 200-215 can fund your entire low level 6 man army builds. plus the monthly runes reward are relevant for all level brackets.
  • It's hard to form a decent team to play on higher stasis. this is not only the case for high stasis or end game. it is the same problem every other level bracket or even the entirety of wakfu faces. we don't have a functional team / party finder and that needs to be fixed, not just for end game, but for the entirety of wakfu. if you actually make the effort to find or build a decent team, then you will find your ways. global chat recruitment, guild members [teach and mentor the new ones even], public discord, etc.  don't tell me that this is such a struggle for you to find decent team if you haven't tried the things i mentioned because they work.
  • The auto emblem system is inadequate for some classes. once again, this is the only real argument i've seen for the ALS system it self. and yes, it does need improvement, but just enough so people can maximize their playstyle given from the free tool they are provided [e.g auto emblem] it should not,  and it must not let player just steamroll any level bracket without any real effort put in.

TL;DR in summary, what you guys have problem with is not ALS. its level locked UBs and level 200 content intertwined with level 215. which i also agree is a problem, look at how ogrest gets longer to calm each coming month [this month was faster than the last previous ones thou]. 
as for the ALS it self? i think its one of the most brilliant and successful idea the team ever come with and implemented.
3 0
Score : 3727

Now this is a well structured and argumented post

PS: Double agree on the group finder argument

1 0
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