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PvP Focused Patch is not the way save WAKFU

By Born-Stubborn - MEMBER - September 11, 2019, 10:18:25
PvP Focused patch is not the way save WAKFU

PvP has never been the "main" stream contents of WAKFU. There are lots of things to do in this game like following main stories or side ones, haven bag/world decoration, trading/economy, doing achievements, collecting gears, as well as raising your characters level. PvP is just one of them.

As a matter of fact, however, PvP balance has always been heavily spot-lighted by some 'opinion leaders' who have a lot in-game money and be highly interested in PvP, in usual. Since PvP balance adjustment is rarely influenced by 'normal players' but by 'PvP prefer players', feedbacks are somewhat biased. Moreover, their ideas of PvP are likely to get favorable reactions from many players because most of players who have no interests in PvP rarely have willingness to share their thinking while PvP prefer players do so. It doesn't mean that PvP players are more active than PvE prefer players. It is true that the voice of PvP prefer players have more influence on feedback and public opinion.

Players who play PvE more than PvP cannot speak up on the forum or on the unofficial channels. Because, players who have bigger voice are PvP prefer players. Even worse, big mouths from the unofficial channels have led public opinion, and pushed ideas which doesn't match up with big mouths' opinion off behind as off topics or nothing.

Balancing based on PvP sometimes make some classes have hard time in PvE and make them abandoned. Ouginak and Rogue have been treated as PvP classes because big mouths want to do so. Players playing Ouginak and Rogue have had a hard time in PvE for a long time. They became PvE unfriendly classes. It took too much time to set Ouginak class as adjusting required class, however, it seems like the class will be rarely seen on PvE field for sure. Meanwhile, Rogue class is not even on upcoming update list. It is totally dead in PvE.

I don't say PvP balance is not important. I respect the preference of PvP. My point is that the importance of feedbacks from PvP prefer players has overblown. It has been considered too much than how important it really is. So to speak, it is a tyranny of ideas from PvP prefer players.
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I think a lot of whining about pvp is unfair. Ankama did a good job. Many compare pvp with other games, but this is the wrong way.
I like pvp now. That now the prestige of the nation depends on the players and it is necessary to actively participate. Moreover, this active participation is rewarded.
Nobody forces you to collect flowers or collect boxes. You can fight as you please and with anyone. You can negotiate with friends and do gangs, why not? It's fun.
The only thing you can do now is add new modes and new mini-games. for example, we now have arenas of the gods Iop, Eni. Why not make a pvp arena god Xelor? happy
I agree that there is no need to distort the game for the sake of pvp. 

Born-Stubborn

PvP has never been the "main" stream contents of WAKFU 


but current battlefields offer a different kind of game activity in which you can also fight and have fun ~ 
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You are the only one who gave replying with actual thinking, after reading my post so far.
There are too many people who actually cannot read.
They think they read, but it seems like they have an automatic translator, which changes someone's words distorted in their tastes, in their head.

I agree with your opinions of adding more modes and new mini-games.
Thanks for replying.

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Actually the new revamps like rogue haven't been balanced around PvP, but rather "PvM as Ankama plans to make it from now on", which makes the suck at dungeons atm, but will probably improve (relatively) as Anakma "fixes" other classes and dungeons.

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dam this sound like some illuminaty consipracy theory 

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Nope, it is based on what I experienced.
Considering that you saying "conspiracy theory", you might hadn't seen such a flattering talks about "potato beating beta screenshots" and massive salt on the unofficial channels.

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cawleerr|2019-09-11 16:44:24
dam this sound like some illuminaty consipracy theory 

Careful, you never know who's watching you!   tongue
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It's funny that you consider Ouginak a "balanced for PvP" class, when the fact it can just walk up to anyone and 1-turn them is pretty damn unbalanced in PvP, it would in fact suggest that they were not balanced for PvP.

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What makes you funny?

It seems like you didn't even read my post lol.

Tiefoone|2019-09-12 13:17:14
It's funny that you consider Ouginak a "balanced for PvP" class, when the fact it can just walk up to anyone and 1-turn them is pretty damn unbalanced in PvP, it would in fact suggest that they were not balanced for PvP.
 
 
 

I 'NEVER WROTE' that " Ouginak a "balanced for PvP" class ".
You even used quotation marks for it lol.

According to my post, I wrote, "It took too much time to set Ouginak class as adjusting required class."
I don't think it will make such a balance though.

See. This is how witch hunting begins.
Distorting small person's words into their tastes.
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There is no point in this moot topic. On Nox when I first came back BGs were empty most of the time. I stayed with doing them and was able to get rank 1 wings within the first month of returning. I felt like all I was doing was playing a minigame throughout the time doing BGs where it should have been PvP content. After I even pushed around trying to get more people involved in BGs with no luck there cause the mindset of some people thing they control what happens within the game.

This in turn made me make the choice to make a grand ending before my next hiatus. I did the things I did and now I am not playing anymore cause the content of wakfu not just including PvP is incomplete. It truely feels like a beta game still. Zone leaders are missing/Nation mechanics are incomplete/Eco systems incomplete(some area you cannot get seeds for mobs if they get to zero) and there are so many way to complete the game but from my opinion Wakfu still isn't out of beta.

Revamping PvP isn't it. The game as a whole need a total revamp a reset to bring back people that are gone or are leaving. Server merge, what if, isn't going to happen cause the data for all characters and accounts would most likely break. Even the forums have gone quiet there isn't much activity, there mostly just a few that will go around just to "downvote" just because they don't like your character ingame.

I will keep watching just to see what happens with Wakfu but I won't be investing my time in playing ever again or my money.

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You are only readin/listening to pvp-related stuff on the forum, because there are pvm-related threads in here.
Also, a real pvp-focused update (=that isn't failed) would be a completely new argument to bring people on wakfu, people that right now are either playing dofus, or not playing any ankama game. Maybe they wouldn't come, maybe they would, that we don't know, but you can't be sure that a pvp revam would be utterly useless.
I personnally don't like pvp, but I still think that a nicely-made system for it wouldn't hurt.
Btw, why would wakfu need to be saved ? It isn't in a dire situation.

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It isn't in a dire situation?
I saw a lot of people quit this game too many times. Last update had a major quit - me included.
Last update was a clear sign there are little devs, they don't plan to expand the number and are artificially extending the game and finding ways to pull up money. If that isn't dire, what is?

And I don't think a PvP update would bring more people. They would bring back some people that are constantly checking the game. As would a PvE oriented update. Wakfu updates are not bringing new people, just old ones back. Advertisement and natural look for other games bring in new people.
I just don't ever see wakfu being a PvP heavy game, it's been a cooperative PvE all the way. PvE it is the main focus and should remain being. I do agree PvP isn't useless, ofc. PvP is an aspect of the game there are people enjoying and it should be given some love. But when several changes - mostly nerfs - are made to balance out PvP a bit, it feels unfair to PvE players.
 

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PVP always has been exclusive property of rich people, ego monsters. Good thing is that we don't need to live within danger of PK, since time that field pvp has gone. My first experience of PVP was that famous PK player on server attacked me in front of dungeon, sadly i could kill him because he was alone and i had 2 character to defense.

Anyway, i don't think it's different that people play Wakfu PVP as a fair competition like CSGO, LOL, dota2(Usually was and is PK as i said above). And it has been worse since enchantment meta where gear gaps get way more higher. In my opinion, PVP is dead. Adjusting character balance for PVP is such a waste. Ruining 95% of player's PVE experience. 

If ankama wants to make PVP to main content of wakfu. then they have to put more development resources on wakfu which is impossible. Devs have to make totally separated balance system from PVE, like Dungeon and fighter Nexon. only way to bring people back to enjoy PVP as a fair competition content.

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Born-Stubborn|2019-09-12 09:25:23
You are the only one who gave replying with actual thinking, after reading my post so far.
There are too many people who actually cannot read.
They think they read, but it seems like they have an automatic translator, which changes someone's words distorted in their tastes, in their head.

I agree with your opinions of adding more modes and new mini-games.
Thanks for replying.

PVP-players is divided into three types in this game:
excl the former will always scream that they are too easy to play and they quickly get wings. but if you understand the situation in more detail, then details appear that this people didn’t pvp on anyone at all, but simply engaged in peaceful farming, therefore they were tired.
excl the second will always whine that in other pvp games it is better WHAT NEED TO DO FIX FIX FIX FIX ~ they do not see the specifics of this game. in this game, as you correctly noticed, pvp is not the main content. developers have something to focus on: economics, quests, etc.
Born-Stubborn
PvP Focused patch is not the way save WAKFU

PvP has never been the "main" stream contents of WAKFU. There are lots of things to do in this game like following main stories or side ones, haven bag/world decoration, trading/economy, doing achievements, collecting gears, as well as raising your characters level. 


and excl others just enjoy the wonderful regime
......................................................................................
if they so want a PERFECTLY balanced pvp let them go to Krosmaga or Waven. Wakfu is not about pvp, but pvp is here and they are quite interesting if you can get pleasure from the game. 
Battlefields are very well connected with the character’s national identity and the prestige of the nation, as mentioned earlier. It's MMORPG including 
And thank you for your courage.
that U were not afraid of the cons and wrote this post on the forum ~ 
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I will respond to your TL;DRs and I numbered them so it's easy to understand

Born-Stubborn
PvP Focused patch is not the way save WAKFU

1)PvP has never been the "main" stream contents of WAKFU.

2)As a matter of fact, however, PvP balance has always been heavily spot-lighted by some 'opinion leaders' who have a lot in-game money and be highly interested in PvP, in usual.

3)Players who play PvE more than PvP cannot speak up on the forum or on the unofficial channels.

4)Balancing based on PvP sometimes make some classes have hard time in PvE and make them abandoned. 


1) Agreed. Many characters in this game were created to fulfill certain roles therefore certain classes will be way better at PvP than others, like Srams, if we put the PvP in a 6v6 scenario then I think it's fine and well but mostly PvPers are 1v1 fanatics so a lot of classes fall into low tier..

2) Eh.. That's kinda true in a way but the main problem is exactly popularity, suggest a nerf for Sacriers, a popular PvP class, and you will be downvoted to oblivion, people be bias, me too, if you suggest a Xelor buff I will wish I could upvote that 1000 times.

3) Disagree partially here, Ankama doesn't listen to 98% of the playerbase no matter if a PvPer or a PvEer but it is true that they are more likelly to listen to PvP suggestions..

4) Yes, without a doubt, Ankama doesn't care much about PvE these days so whenever they nerf or buff something the PvP is always top priority which makes the PvE camp sad.. Example, the previous nerf on Iop's Uppercut combo (the one that gives +2AP) was entirely done with PvP in mind and that took some of Iop's potential in PvE as, previously, I could easily jump from one target to the other with that and now I can't.. And why? Because with Awakening this combo becomes OP and Iop's can spam that multiple times which not only endgame stuff but also expensive to pull off so your average Iop wouldn't even benefit from it..
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Tiefoone|2019-09-12 21:18:33

some crap

You have to watch your words on forum.
And how do you know what I intended, which was not written?
It is a cheap excuse to distort someone's word.

How this;
"Balancing based on PvP sometimes make some classes have hard time in PvE and make them abandoned."
turns into this?;
Tiefoone|2019-09-12 21:18:33
considered Ougi to be balanced for PvP


I also wrote this:
They became PvE unfriendly classes. ...
It took too much time to set Ouginak class as adjusting required class,

That intended meaning is only from your head, not from my words.
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Uh, I have to stand up for Tiefoone here. You are being overly paranoid on this thing. Communication is a thing of two sides: what you say and what other people read. Things can be written or read in misleading ways, and in most cases it's a blend of both.

You could have just answered him with "Hey, that's not what I meant" and solve the issue. Instead you went and accused him of twisting your words. Why create some adversity with someone when it's not really a big deal?

You also did a misread of his, and thats no problem at all. when he said:
"It's funny that you consider Ouginak a "balanced for PvP" class [...]"
He used "balanced for PvP" as a pseudo term, not a quote. Because he doesn't actually believe in it. It was his way of highlighting that it was not actually literal.
It is a matter of what everyone takes from overall language, so try to be a little more friendly, miscomunication is all over our world.

Overall, from this and your other posts, it seems you were being hurt by a discord community and is taking it here. Why not address it directly on a thread and try to clear up the situation and ask for help on that, instead of taking it to other threads? The topic of this thread seems to be "PvP should not be the main focus of wakfu".

 

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Well Im a lil tired of explaining why pvp is a good way to explore of wakfu. My words might convince you or not, many ppl here don't like me and Im also fine with that, but for once u can invest some time and read whole text.I was organizer of Brawlmington Events on remington server (13 editions + some specials and beta editions) and I had list that consist more then 80+ players (from rem only) that took part in fights there, + ppl who watched fights live on server, + ppl from Reg's channel that watched them. We had cool atmosphere and ppl were enjoying pvp. many ppl met friends and had enemies on their lvl to fight with. Till this day, almost every day somebody priv massege me and type to me that they thanks for content, and they returned to wakfu cos they saw vid on yt, that they want to lvl up and play wiht us doing pvp. For me this is big achivment for the game.

Pve is cool, new items and mechanic brings back ppl, but its imposible for wakfu team to make pve content every 2 months to keep it fresh and relevant. Let's face it it's just imposible to make for such small team Wakfu have. pvp will be always viable way of spending time in game. Mb some of you dont like it, and I understand that it's fine. But u get pve changes all the time, meanwhile pvp players get nothing at all. Let's be real here, battlegrounds are the worst pvp enviorement that u can jump into it's abomination of the system that reward mindless grind, more then fighting.

Im tired of ppl typing "If U wAnNa PvP gO tO dOfUs", u don't enjoy pvp? Okey it's fine, but don't try to drag down pvp players. 1v1 never will be balanced, tho 3v3 is for me clearly the superior pvp format that provide fast and exciting action, and it's worth exploring. Franchies have a lot of popularity in 6v6. There is many ppl that would like to try but pvp doesnt get proper introduction in game before, and fanmade events like brawlmington are cool but it wont carry the weight for entire time.

drop mic down, times will change, and pvp will shine it's just a metter of time *wink*

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I agree with most of your opinion, however, my point is on slightly different topic.
What I meant “PvP focused patch” is more like re-working classes to set as PvP oriented and making them out of PvE cooperation. For example, spells which have features of generating armor as side effect or damaging on armor only, are not best ones for PvE.

Moreover, as one player commented, player population is separated. They even don’t have to communicated each others, because PvP and PvE are not in the same ground no more. Now it is possible to get gears from battleground, sometimes players who only do PvP even don’t know how one dungeon works.

Back in the days of open-world PvP, it was required to prepare proper gears for PvP as well as PvE. Actually, a lot of players were yelling for closing open-world PvP for having better game experience, and got never interested in PvP.

Unfortunately, this game has alot things to be changed, like bugs.
Considering the weight of value, PvP is not just on the priority list.
And it is not possible for Team-WAKFU to touch PvP and PvE at the same time.

You maybe read the context, what I meant ‘PvP prefer players’ sometimes refer to ‘fake players’(my another post).
They talk too much for something.
And usually talk for PvP, because they only can imagine PvP while they hit astrub potato.

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PvP is important and this game should have it. It should be balanced on which character is more prepared and has more matchup experience. You should be able to opt out. If you only care about PvE, then stop being selfish. A lot of us enjoy PvP and pushing us away only makes your player base smaller.

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PvP is important and the game should have it, but improving it should not be the focus right now. I am a lil tired of explaining why, so I will not extensively do that anymore. I get that some of you commenting here are fervent PvP players, so understand that your own opinion is biased. Same goes for people who dislike or don't care about PvP at all. Sure improving the PvP system might not push the +- 80 players that care about it away, but it also won't really attract new players to play the game which is what we need most. Improving social aspects might.

This is also a great thread for people who care about problems that actually do matter https://www.wakfu.com/en/forum/8-general-discussions/237834-critical-report-mmo-experience-wakfu

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