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Score : -426

Wings

By NewHook - MEMBER - February 08, 2018, 19:51:40
DevTracker AnkaTracker

Some people are crying that wings now don't matter and that Ankama has ruined the Wing system. 

Let me make one thing perfectly clear:  Wings have never mattered. 

The way you got wings before was along the lines of kill people in 1v1 and 6v6 and such and you'll get merit, get merit and you get bigger wings. Now, I don't know how it is on Remi and Phaeris, so I can't speak for them necessarily. I can speak for Nox and I have intimate knowledge of the history of PvP, being a participator of it.

PvP fanatics and people who actively sought out and looked for good fights only got rank 6-7 wings at best. No matter how much or hard you tried, you could only get those sized wings if you PvPed like a fanatic and consistently won. 

Do you know who got the rank 1-6 wings? The cheaters. People who would log accounts for their mains to kill over and over so their wings got nice and big. To add insult to injury, these people would usually be level 40 or so, no possible way those wings were earned legitimately. Not only that, several cheaters would get their wings, flaunt them publicly in safe areas, and then never ever go into contested zones to put their skills to the test and get bigger wings like the rest of the real PvPers. The worst part? They never got punished.

What baffles me the most is that most of those cheaters are now crying out that wings are too easy to get or now wings have lost all meaning. To you people, diddlydoo you. Wings now mean more than ever, because what it means is that you put in the hours and work to benefit your nation. Wings are now something to be proud of instead of something to doubt because "there's no way that guy really has rank 7 wings, right?". Wings now mean that you should probably think twice before attacking that guy, because he might obliterate you. 

This new system, in every way possible, is superior to what we had before.

- Someone who legitimately got rank 6/7 wings before the patch hit. 

1
First Ankama intervention

Hello,

Reach the high ranks in the previous PvP system was horribly long, nearly impossible without cheating. It's normal that it's faster in the new PvP system.

However, remember that merit loss becomes bigger the higher rank you are. Even if a less-skilled PvP player* managed to hit the TOP1, that doesn't mean that he will be able to keep it.

* It's only a hypothesis, I'm not saying it's the case.

By the way, note that we will adjust Merit gained at the end of battlegrounds. The reduction will be stronger for lower battleground rating (D rank, C rank).

In combination with the other changes that we will implement (as detailed here), PvP fighters should shines !

See message in context
Reactions 34
Score : 8461

 

NewHook
Wings are now something to be proud of instead of something to doubt because "there's no way that guy really has rank 7 wings, right?". Wings now mean that you should probably think twice before attacking that guy, because he might obliterate you. 


LOL. I could pretty much say "there's no way that guy really has high ranked wings right?" about pretty much the top 10 in both bonta and sufokia. Also, wings DO NOT mean that you should probably think twice before attacking that guy.

Wings do not have anything to do with your PvP skill

But maybe if you say it enough times you'll convince yourself

 
 
0
Score : -426

It's not true that they have nothing to do with it. The world isn't black or white.

But, you can say that people with big wings contribute a ton to their nations PVP efforts. That's good enough for me. 

-5
Score : -2998

I got two chars with r4 wings legit inRemington before. Now anybody can have r4 wings and the Champion title like nothing. Talk about achievements diminished....

-2
Score : -2998

I bet all the plebs thought I was boosted LUL

-2
Score : 8731

 

NewHook
PvP fanatics and people who actively sought out and looked for good fights only got rank 6-7 wings at best. No matter how much or hard you tried, you could only get those sized wings if you PvPed like a fanatic and consistently won. 

Do you know who got the rank 1-6 wings? The cheaters. People who would log accounts for their mains to kill over and over so their wings got nice and big. To add insult to injury, these people would usually be level 40 or so, no possible way those wings were earned legitimately. Not only that, several cheaters would get their wings, flaunt them publicly in safe areas, and then never ever go into contested zones to put their skills to the test and get bigger wings like the rest of the real PvPers. The worst part? They never got punished.
 

As someone who had most of the active people who would have fit into the Rank 4+ category on Nox in my guild in 2014 (Had there been enough users with enough merit to allow for those ranks), this is inaccurate. A small number of non-cheaters were able to use the system to get into the 8000-14000+ (Sorry, I forget exactly what Monte had before quitting I want to say 16000 and change) range in the early days when there was still a large pool of people actively using it.

As time progressed (into when I went on hiatus), this was no longer possible to do legitimately due to the low number of people interested in PVP, restrictive nature of the system, and large number of people abusing the system. One need only look at the history of unbeatable 1v1 machine Ultramonte for reference. Even 6-mans like Kriz were gaining merit legitimately, albeit through what players would constantly complain to me were unfair fighting tactics. The efficient ways for legitimately gaining merit through the old system are ultimately what destroyed the system's user-base and created the environment you experienced and are referencing. A lower overall server population is also likely a major cause.

No relevance to your actual post content, though. Haven't had much interest in the new system. Just an obnoxious correction. I will now disappear and not be seen again for many moons.

*poof*
0
Score : -2998

What I personally did, on my 2nd 12000 merit Sram... I simply made it lower level, so i can kill players 20-40 levels above myself for large merit gains 1v1, and guarded him from high level and ganks with my main. Just racked up 50 winstreaks on the people that were with wings up and the 12k came rather quickly, in a month or something.
PVP died off even in remington half a year after that though, and it wasn't really possible to legitimately grind merit anymore.

The 1st one I just casually pvped to the point of stomping people, it was active enough to reach the 12k mark if you were truly good and owning everybody - I was not the only one who had this, there were multiple other legit 12-14k's, even (No Divide amaknian feca, Beethoven sufokian sram and his osa, to name a few, Tiger Lover Killer brakmarian sram). 

TLDR: just kill everyone you see and never lose, 10k merits was possible in remington a couple years ago. You just need to be well prepared and organised in a way you grind merits, if you know you can lose a fight, you disappear.
 

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Score : 531

eyo, remington player here, reporting curent situation from battlegrounds.  

as you can see just in 3 days people already reached rank 1 with best wings.
*wow what an awesome pvpers remington has*  or *Wings now mean that you should probably think twice before attacking that guy, because he might obliterate you* - some people can think, but no, wings do not display how good persone pvps anymore. all it shows is how grindy he was and if he chose to be part *right* nations.
as you can see those 2 nations decided to form alliance and if you add in that biggest part of active players are residents of those nations it results into something like this:

while players from other nations managed to score 7000merit(rank7) at max: 

to sum this up: i didnt wanted to say that any of those ppl are bad pvpers (even though i tried atacking 1st place eca and it was a) his friend joining or b) just running away in fight untill battleground ends (and those end fast if its 10vs40 scenario) just to protect precious wings, but dats a different story folks) .

Only thing i ment by this is that battlegrouds did not replaced old pvp system in any way, all it brought is just flower carying/ boxes opening/ amakna or riktus joining grind fiesta just to *get their wings, and flaunt them publicly*@NewHook
 
4
Score : 8461

Same situation for on Nox except Bonta and Sufo.

-1
Score : 1785

Well the only problem right now of the wings is this. in the past if u have the big wings people can just attack you and try to put your grade down.but right now u can farm grade 1 wings and then quitting to do bg cause u just want big wings and no one can remove your merit

0
Score : 1704

Not true, only 1 person can have rank 1 wings, meaning, you have to work for it daily to maintain them, the second someone gets higher merit than you, you get downgraded.

3
Score : 531

 

Tzirah|2018-02-10 11:00:23

1) The reason Amakna + Riktus has 100% win-rate is because competition gave up on day 1, if you included screenshots from day 1, you'd have seen we actually lost fights, and quite the fair amount of them as well. However people completely gave up and changed to Amakna and Riktus to freeload merit, so now those 2 nations have around 80% of the playerbase, of course we have a 100% win-rate now when every match turns up to be 40v6.

2) You can't really blame the most serious players on server for planning appropriately. Instead, blame the people that abandoned their nation just to be on the favorable side.
 

1) yes competition gave up after 1st day of battlegrounds, mainly becouse *quite the fair amount of them* is that other nations managed to win only one battleground while amakna+riktus claimed all other (sadly i wasnt making screenshots that day). And after 1st day finishing like that, most ppl made a conclusion that they should join winning side instead of continuing losing.

2) and yes, serious players appropriately planned everything and instead of making battlefields enjoyable for every one they just sticked to their *amakna+riktus* plan to get most incomes from it and when they done grinding their wings/items/glory orbs/etc. they will be like: *here, be grateful for our kindness plebs, we are breaking amakna+riktus alliance so you can start winning now*. And i cant blame anyone else than governors of those allied nations for this (riktus doesnt have one tho, so all blame on amakna wink).
1
Score : 1704

Lol, blame me all you want, i don't mind being blamed for other nations being too incapable to defend themselves and do proper political work, because as you hear, you really can't blame me for others flaws. Nor is it our responsibility to make battlegrounds fun, it's the entirety of the server, now which 2 nations are most active on battlegrounds? riktus and amakna! who shows up to each one? riktus and amakna! who's making an effort to make battlegrounds interresting? riktus and amakna!

and why would we feel bad about winning? of course we reap the rewards when we planned for it and you didn't, you reap what you sow

spend some of the energy you use on being upset on getting geared instead, provide some competition

-1
Score : 1704

 

Enceladon|2018-02-10 13:14:45
Why do people think that governor has anything to do with this? Only part was to form an alliance. It is obvious that there are a lot of pvpers in Riktus and Amakna is one of the nations with the highest population. Battlefield is not at the moment a question of skill, it is a question of numbers. And you can't even blame others for not being a competition, if there are less pvp players there, it won't change.

" spend some of the energy you use on being upset on getting geared instead, provide some competition"
Don't bring that comment in a hardcore grind game, it give others a bad view on you.


all I'm saying is, I've been through the same grind, just recently finished, so, he has had exact same chances to accomplish the same as the rest of us. And instead of him spending the past 4 days blaming our alliance for how unfair it is, i think he should instead use the energy to push forward. 

totally agree It's a game of numbers, and to a very slight degree pvp capabilities when important matches do finally come around, like being in a 6v6 to defend/attack chief. And the reason i'm complaining about competitions is because there were plenty competition on day 1, battlegrounds were actually fun, but then people migrated to amakna/riktus to have it easier there, leaving no opposition.

And as I said, i sincerely don't care if it brings a bad view upon me, the people that matters to me, perfectly knows me. I'm not gonna be nice to someone that blames me unjustly for his own incompetence.
2
Score : 4059

Everyone can go through the same grind, but not everyone started on the same time and not  everybody has the  same time to grind, I would suggest to not get in the topic "take yourself gear, if you think it is unfair", because this was one of the most used sentences in the dark ages of open world pvp (abuse).

And I agree that this migration to the stronger nation is a bad idea. I would like to have the option to go in different nations with different chars, so I can fight for more nations, but it is no option because of hero system punishing me for that.

0
Score : 531

 

Tzirah|2018-02-10 13:58:52
spend some of the energy you use on being upset on getting geared instead, provide some competition




in my curent state i cant be worthy oppopent on lvl 200 battlegrounds but im working on that. And to compensate it i tried atacking ppl on lvl 110/140/170 battlegrounds, where we both had autodecks and where even. But how did it ended? stalling or +1 joining on enemy side, so about what competition are you talking about if all they care is to protect their merit.

upd: also i will gladly accept 1v1 on any 110/140/170 battlegrouds from you, it will bring competition factor to battlegrouds (hopefully(?))
2
Score : 1704

Is it shocking i'm trying to defend my title as rank 1 by playing smart? no. also, i wont do downscaled combat since unlike you who pretend its balanced, I lose my melee mastery and get huge amount of range, i'm a melee fighter, so downscaled without gear literally breaks my class, stop whining and harassing me in-game.

0
Score : 12018

Currently wings are mainly a measure of activity. Because you mainly earn merit from your rank (rather than it being specific to fights) and you largely get better ranks from farming objectives than by fighting people.

I would still say wings are more meaningful than they were before. Yeah you don't really need much PvP skill to earn them (more persistence) but still that's better than the majority of wings being cheated for and back then honest wings were still more a sign of persistence than PvP skill. And I'm kinda okay with people farming wings fast now since they reset the whole system.. but hopefully they can optimize things so that wings become more meaningful in the long term.

They really need to change merit gain to being determined more by fights than by point farming. They really need to change a LOT about the flower capture mode. They really need to stop fights being cut off by the BG ending. And they need to do something about stalling.

For the last part I'd suggest, the length of the lockout debuff recieved by the loser is equal to the length of the fight. For me this seems fair. If someone gets one turned killed before they can do anything, they can be back in action quickly. If someone stalls for an eternity they'd end up locked out of participating for a long time too. (with some sanity limits on it too I guess).

This would not be a penalty for long fights, this would be a penalty for LOSING long fights. So dragging a fight out for forever would be fine, so long as you won. If you were sure to lose than wasting as much of other people's time as possible would now have a cost to it.

Anyway I don't think it's fair to blame power players and nation alliances for unbalancing battlegrounds. If someone has been a longstanding prominent member of whatever nation and they're doing well on the battlefields and other people switch to their nation I really don't think they've done anything wrong there. I think it says more that the modes are badly designed (which they are) and I'd actually blame people team switching to the winning side much more heavily than the people who were ALWAYS on that side. Day 1 on remi things were kinda contested. Day 2 they weren't, largely because of people either giving up or switching. It's still probably worth it dissolving power alliances between different nations if there's no opposition but some of those alliances have gone back a long time (long before the battlefields) so it's understandable why people might not want to do that quickly and I don't think anyone on remi predicted that BGs would turn out quite this way. Things like ganging in fights or stalling is lame though yeah.

"Everyone can go through the same grind, but not everyone started on the same time and not  everybody has the  same time to grind, I would suggest to not get in the topic "take yourself gear, if you think it is unfair", because this was one of the most used sentences in the dark ages of open world pvp (abuse)."

Without wanting to get dragged into other people's arguments too much, I think open world PvP and BG PvP are very different here.With open world PvP people who were completely unready could get destroyed by maxed out players and there was nothing they could do about it, with BGs all parties have to opt in which means saying you're ready to fight (even if you know your build isn't maxed or optimized). And I'd really say lvl 200 gear was more meaningful here because that's the gear you'd want to be working on anywaywhilst optimized lvl 80/110/whatever sets are kinda pointless outside of BGs... except for ALS high stasis runs I suppose.

3
Score : 3283

There's some Highly questionable wings on Nox

I think something that need to be changed is getting merit for 2v1 3v2. You're still gaining points for your side and hindering ppl for doing the objective. Should be enough reward than just easy picking for merit gain.

I've seen ppl join for 2v1 even to not do anything at all ...just to get that free ride.

-2
Score : 12018

Here's some information on merit

On the winning side

A rank = 1000 merit
B rank = 750 merit
C rank = 500 merit
D rank = 250 merit

On the losing side

A rank = 500 merit
B rank = 375 merit
C rank = 250 merit
D rank = 125 merit

This may do something to explain why merit leaderboards have been turning out the way they do. So being on the losing team means you get half as much merit (maybe orbs too), but the same loot chests for that grade.

2

Hello,

Reach the high ranks in the previous PvP system was horribly long, nearly impossible without cheating. It's normal that it's faster in the new PvP system.

However, remember that merit loss becomes bigger the higher rank you are. Even if a less-skilled PvP player* managed to hit the TOP1, that doesn't mean that he will be able to keep it.

* It's only a hypothesis, I'm not saying it's the case.

By the way, note that we will adjust Merit gained at the end of battlegrounds. The reduction will be stronger for lower battleground rating (D rank, C rank).

In combination with the other changes that we will implement (as detailed here), PvP fighters should shines !

Score : 206

Unfairness inbound.

0
Score : 5466

 

Xillor-The-Shadow|2018-02-08 14:13:32

Rush has 16,000 merit in 2 days from picking up boxes and flowers. She PvPd maybe.. 3 times? 

How many players do I need to kill in BGs before you'll stop slandering me lol
Sorry I take long breaks from the game and have pauper-level equipment compared to your main.
2
Score : 3038

If this guy was a true pvper he wouldnt care about merit, just the fun of the fight. I see him with new post crying about smth, pls shut the diddly.... up. All u want is high merit and win all the time and if u cant u just cry. Btw panda, just as busted as sadi or feca, maybe u just cant play it right.

2
Score : 1085

At least now we get to see wings, as opposed to the past.

0
Score : -2998

its true wings mean something now

they dont mean youre a hardcore pvper though

0
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