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Score : 38

We need to come together.

By Zaybaby - MEMBER - January 12, 2018, 15:57:32
I've played Wakfu for a while now off and on. I play on both servers with Remington being my main, but I've come to realize that Nix seems to be drying out. What I mean by the title is that we need to keep this game alive. I love this game so much. To be honest with you all, I quit for about 8 months and now started playing again and I'm really loving the changes and this new class. We need to post videos. Advertise. Get  people to join the game. I've made plenty of friends in this game and I love it. Wakfu reminds me of the "Next Gen Chess". I speak mainly for the NA community, because that's where I play and not familiar with how popular the game is in Europe. But yea, hit me up in game! 

-King Zay.
First Ankama intervention
Hi guys,

Your feedback has been shared with the team. It has been fairly constructive at this point and we appreciate it.
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Reactions 15
Score : 283
Wakfu had a big chance when it got introduced in Steam, easily the biggest it had and going to have. People came in from Steam, looked around and left. Promotions didn't include Steam purchases, payments from Steam weren't accepted. The forums there are empty, no news posted in the official announcements for half a year now, no CM presence whatsoever.
Ankama wanted players from Steam, but wanted them to leave the platform, because then Steam wouldn't get a cut from purchases (EA games were removed from there for the very same reason). Of course the transition wasn't so smooth as a) players didn't want to leave and b) transforming a Steam account into an Ankama one hit a wall of bugs (which is quite typical).

We can advertise the game as much as we want, we can praise it, recommend it, doesn't matter. Ankama's attitude eventually shows itself and players leave. Only the problems, bugs, shortcomings stay, nobody cares about them, it's all about the money. It's quite sad, as I love this game greatly and the potential it has is enormous. I'd like to see what would happen if we take Ankamas development side from the publisher one and gave them another...
Score : 350
i play on and off too but i quit playing because they are so lazy with character design and most of the costumes are terrible, i hate feeling like a generic blan piece of toast, yet you see npcs who look amazing have amazing hair styles awesome clothes they just look amazing and the crappy 3 hair styles and 3 colors option just isnt enough for me i keep checking back to see if they ever fix it by adding better and longer hair styles or even costumes of the amazing looking npcs but they never do because ankama dont care lol their game is dieing and its their fault its not the player bases job to spread the word about the game and keep it alive its the companies, and ankama dont do that so here we are today i truly do think this is one of my fav mmos ever but im tired of generic characters that all look the same and until they change it i wont recommend this game to anyone and i wont spend money on it cause im not gonna spend money on things i dont enjoy. and i dont care about cliping or the hair and cape glitches they could easily fix that by allowing us to make capes invisible i have seen plenty games that done it. as i said i love the game i played it for years but im tired of being generic, or just another variation. and until they fix that i most likely wont come back, i just be checking the website once in a while hoping they fixed it
Score : 38
I mean I enjoy the game as well. I plan on donating more to then now and in the future. I just hope they know they can do some things to improve. Like I cannot even log into remington rn. They need to hire more support staff. Be more helpful and more understanding and that alone will net them profits.
Score : 15814
The Steam Launch and the server merge are the biggest chances the international community's gonna get to bounce back.

Steam launch was mistimed, and I suspect it came down to the team from above because the game launched on Steam in the midst of one of its most tumultuous period of changes. PVP Revamp was a disaster, stats revamp was generally well done, Sram revamp was a success but it started a wide gulf between revamped and unrevamped classes that had players bitterly clamoring for the next update in the hopes their class would transition from weak mastery bonuses to a power curve like Sram had. Anybody coming into the game would find themselves running face first into missing, outdated, broken, or just clunky content, and would also find wide content gaps in short order, even if they didn't face the worst of the balance issues.

The relationship between the wakfu shop and the steam shop is its own can of worms too.
Score : 62
I would love to see the day people stop finding excuses as to the state of Wakfu and would blame this squarely on Ankama. Wakfu season 3 proved the point of why this company will never go beyond the success they had with Dofus, this company's clueless about what they're doing with their multiple games. I'm sticking to Dofus, with Dofus I have the assurance that they have to work to keep their flagship title running well. Oh Wakfu,  Ogrest and his tears won, a tragic story for a tragic game.
Score : 10099
There's a reason the game doesn't have many players, and honestly I cannot recommend the game in it's current state.

Actually, let's discuss state of the game at the moment.

- World. Wakfu creates an interesting world when you first visit it. I think the artstyle lets the game look good, without being very graphically demanding. The classes feel nicely different from each other and some of them feel special/unique (robot time wizard is an excellent class concept) whilst still being simple enough to understand pretty quickly. Hidden secrets scattered throughout the game make the world feel fleshed out ( honestly there isn't as much of this as you might first think, but still that's a good illusion to have for new players).
- Combat. Core combat is pretty good and turn-based grid-based games are an underserved niche too. I think 12 spells/6passives strikes a good balance of choice before battle and in battle. I do think spells and spellslots should be unlocked at lower levels though, because classes really feel incomplete at very low level.
- Levelling. I know some people hate levelling but I think Wakfu's system is pretty good for it. Want to solo? That works fine. Want to group? That works fine. Want do do achievements? Works. Quests, daily quests, merc quests, dungeons, ALS, whatever. You can make consistent reliable progress doing basically whatever you want and outside of a couple of problem lvl ranges it really doesn't take much effort to level up. So much of the game's reward scheme is built around XP that I really think the game should have a secondary XP system. Gearing takes vastly longer than levelling and the problem is it's RNG based, so you can do many runs and make 0 progress because you don't get the drop you need but a secondary XP system might make that time feel less wasted because you'd be making incremental progress on something else along the way. Perhaps the counterargument is to suggest making multiple characters but there can be a lot of downtime before you can run anything meaningful with alts and I'm not sure encouraging players to run more and more teams by themselves is a good idea.

- ALS system is a nice idea for allowing players to obtain high level rewards from low level dungeons and therefore letting high level players meaningful group with low level players. In practice I don't think it really works. The auto spell deck screwing you over is unfun and makes the system annoying to use. Yeah you can specifically construct decks to stop them from imploding, but it's still an unnecessarily limited and frustrating system that exists solely so they can try to sell you extra pages. Auto characteristics makes generalized choices you don't want and frequently bugs out so you don't even get those stats anyway lol. Auto gear emblems can be a nice convenience for running stuff, but developing your chracter is kinda the whole point of the game and the inability to make real sets without buying additional pages means all the in dungeon rewards become meaningless for you. Which then means the only rewards you care about are the modulox token (easily farmable in one minute choosing the easiest dungeons) and the end of season boxes. Farming modulox tokens can be swiftly done solo, farming dungeon leaderboards encourages maxed twink teams so neither of these things give a reason for high levels to run dungeons with low levels. So in its basic form the ALS system is neither fun nor does it encourage grouping between different level ranges thus failing at both of its intended goals (arguably worse than just making a lowbie alt lol), if you pay money for pages it can be used for both but still I'm going to classify this as something that could have been an amazing core feature that's kinda crippled by Ankama's overhanded attempts to monetize it. I also think the modulox system made a ton more sense when tokened rewards were linked - getting endgame relics to sell from running a lv 9 dungeon in one minute flat (once a day) is dumb as hell.
- Dungeon leaderboards. A competitive PvE element is a great idea but in practice the system doesn't work very well. Firstly it doesn't really encourage competition and improving your scores, it encourages grabbing easy boxes on things nobody else bothered to run and sniping first places on the last day of the month. Secondly it's massive RNG whether a box is worthless or rewarding or EXTREMELY lucrative. The droprate on cosmetic items from boxes is way too high and a player can end up with HUNDREDS of them which are all useless and due to oversupply all worthless too and even if you did want to use them you'd need to buy mimisymics to do so. And then what, make another 20 characters to use them all? Empty boxes and getting literally nothing would be more palatable than the pointless cosmetic items (some of them are even impossible to use, because they correspond to a non visual slot which can't be mimi-ed lol). Epic and Relic runes on the other hand are extremely useful and valuable and in constant demand. I do think epic and relic runes are a great addition, and I do think this acquisition method makes dungeon boxes a lot more meaningful, but I also think this system is really unfair and random and uhhh actually harmful.

- Performance and polish. The game is littered with bugs, many of which have been around of years without any sign of them being worked on. Other bugs are labelled as fixed 4 patches in a row and still somehow persist. Sometimes it feels like progress is being made, other times it feels like things are moving backwards. Many features are implemented in incomplete broken states and then never revisited. Including changes that straight up make the game worse, for no benefit at all. Memory leak issues can also make the game perform insanely badly during long play sessions, so what should be a kinda low resource game can become unplayable if you don't restart frequently. Also in 1.57 I get DC issues all the time.

- Stasis reward curve. Stasis reward curve is junk. Y'know normally I say "debatably" about this but screw it, today we're going to prove it mathematically. This is a graph of Droprate/EnemyHP vs Stasis difficulty.
In terms of pure time efficiency, s1 is probably the most efficient and s50 is probably the least efficient (unless you're overkilling things in s1, which I suppose is often the case for boss phases).
This graph doesn't account for the extra difficulty of (greatly) increased enemy damage, of boss ramp up mechanics (s21+ = +20res, +15% fd every turn starting at the 7th, s31+ = +1 mp, + 1 range every 10 turns starting at the third) or mobs getting up to 30 force of will from stasis difficulty. Factoring in difficulty makes higher stasis less worthwhile than this graph suggests I think, and it's already a downwards line lol.
High stasis also puts you on leaderboards but that's a once per month activity.
High stasis also gives you better rewards on ogrest tear daily quest if ogrest is calmed.
High stasis gives you bonus chances on boss resource and transmutations, but neither of those are particularly compelling because boss resources are easily tokenable now and aren't rate limiting on any crafts.
High stasis gives you better efficiency on stele offerings but glou is fairly easy to come by, so I think this matters a bit more at moon than at zinit.
Running low stasis multiple times awards you more dungeon tokens than running high stasis once.

If you can beat a dungeon at s1, well congrats that's the most efficient difficulty to run it on. So why try to move up in difficulty? And when you ask that question, uh why play at all? This is a MASSIVE problem because progress and advancement is THE main point of the game and this severely undermines it. I really thought HC exclusive items were a good idea because then it feels like there's some payoff to moving up in difficulty, rather than just higher drop chance on the same items when the higher drop chance isn't worth the extra time taken.

For this reason I like that mineral tower has s21+ exclusive items... though s21 prohibits you from dropping the other s1-20 items which seems weird. I also in principle like the idea of different drop tiers for ogrest damage, but in practice I find dofus fragments are way too random and rare (despite constant 2m+ damage scores) whilst the weapons are kinda oversaturated and oversupplied. And with guides on the mechanics freely available hitting 2m isn't hard so it's basically luck if someone gets dofus fragments. So I've run ogrest since release, on 4 characters, getting 2m+ scores nearly constantly and someone has still dropped more dofus fragments in one fight (3 frags) in their only 2m run than I have accross all my characters accross all my 2m+ runs (2 frags total).

This stasis reward curve also creates a scenario where overcoming challenges is uhhh less productive than simply grinding for things (excluding Ogrest Wrath and Prismatic Dofus quests I guess). And sure I do think stasis difficulty options are a good idea but the rewards really need a rethink now that boss resources aren't in supreme demand.

- Economy. Actually I really thought the player driven economy was the best and most interesting part of the game before the craft/droprate revamp, but now I hate it. My issue is as follows. The more common items are oversupplied to the point of near worthlessness whilst the rare items are obnoxiously rare so are absurdly expensive. This creates a scenario where it feels like almost nothing is worth buying (rare items are hyper expensive so don't seem worth it, more common items are easier to farm myself than to make the kamas back) and almost nothing is worth selling (rare items I want to keep for myself, more common items nobody wants and are hardly worth anything). This also leads to really weird scenarios where low level items can be more expensive than high level ones despite being much easier fights and having much higher droprates, because nobody bothers to run that content much. Part of this problem is because several new systems for obtaining rune powder make smashing items for rune powder feel less necessary whilst simultaneously the smash payout for items was overall lowered (20 basic powder from a low rarity item feels pointless, you could smash a 99 stack and get... 10 glossy runes. Wow). Which means the minimum value for an item dropped to almost nothing. So I'm left with literally thousands of items I can't use, that nobody wants to buy, that smash for trivial amounts of powder which I don't need anyway. Meanwhile the items I actually want never drop. The venn diagram for "drops you want" and "drops you get" is two completely separate circles. Speculating on the market is also largely not worth attempting because oversaturation leads to almost everything trending downwards very quickly. And maybe some of this intentional, that the system is designed so hardcore players farm vast surplusses of items they have no use for other than to sell for truly junk prices in order to acquire one RNG-based super-rare drop for marginal improvement thereby supplying an entire server with items at bargain prices. But if it is intentional then you have to either be more subtle about it or make those super-rare drops more potent so they'd actually justify their obscene price tags, because right now selling stuff just feels like a waste of time. Not least because the market board system is really inconvenient for handling oversupply.

Ankama's random and sporadic changes can also greatly shift the value of items in ways that don't feel fair or rewarding, and really suggests they don't care at all about the in game economy. During the craft revamp rare exotic moon gear was powered down, more common regular moon gear was powered up, and blueprints went from super rare to extremely common (some of them going from being worth ~15mk to worth 200k overnight). Yeah sure old gear always loses value in new updates, but that's usually without nerfing 1.5 year old items for basically no reason at all, whilst buffing all its direct competition AND adding a new tier of superior item above it. So I mean Ankama could add epics back into token machines (might even be a good idea) with no warning at all despite that obviously causing epics to lose 75% of their value and plummet in price. And I'm not automatically against changes like that, but I am against doing nothing for 8 months then suddenly doing a massive overcorrect with literally 0 warning. To me small adjustments done soon are a lot more palatable than huge adjustments done late. I mean I do think relics becoming much easier to obtain and much cheaper is good for most players but still some players could have lost hundreds of millions of kamas in that change. Sometimes their changes actually exacerbate price issues instead of trying to reduce them, things like changing the AP loss mechanics made the erebelt stele harder making that item more expensive when it was already one of the most annoying zinit steles and one of the most valuable items available. Ankama is also really bad at compensating item loss bugs, though I think they might've fixed the bug itself at this stage.

- Quests. Quests in this game are terrible and largely consist of tedious instruction following, poorly suited minigames and fetch quests. The high bar for quests is ones that are just like "Go do this dungeon. Okay good". Some of the flavour in the later dimension quests can be nice but a lot of things are still poorly designed and often the minigames try to use the combat engine for things it's straight up bad at. Ogrest Wrath quest is... actually pretty good at the end, but that's something only a tiny proportion of players will see. Most quests in this game exist as filler, they're supposed to waste your time a bit as "work" for whatever reward they give. Maybe chillberg quest is alright too.

- Crafting. Crafting used to be high investment high reward. Now it's moderate investment, marginal reward. I will absolutely argue that the craft revamp made crafting less interesting AND less rewarding. I do think most of the craft revamp's goals were worth pursuing (and it even succeeded at some of them) and I do think you can argue it works as a baseline system to be expanded off (I like souvenir crafts exactly for this reason), but still I think it's an overall downgrade and I think replacing a functional system with a skeleton system to be expanded is a bad move. Especially 5 years into a game's lifespan lol. Secure crafting was a nice addition, blueprints were due a revision but making them drop like candy makes the whole system pointless which in turns drops crafters to negligible value, item upgrading is an okay idea but using it as a wholesale replacement for item crafting makes things less nuanced and interesting, rebalancing XP levels and merging professions can be okay if handled well but if players are losing progress or feeling like they wasted their time then you're doing something wrong. Gathering professions are more lucrative than they used to be, but that's also the most boring stuff imaginable so increased prominence doesn't seem good to me.

- Broken social systems. There are serious arguments to be made that wakfu is most rewarding and best suited to being played as a single player game. There are no inherent rewards or incentives for grouping with new or different players, so static teams are heavily preferred (for familiarity and better coordination) and the most reliable and consistently available static team you can find is playing by yourself lol. Wakfu relies pretty heavily on difficulty by obscurity, which in some ways can be nice because it means winning a dungeon is about knowing how to react to it rather than everything being a stat check. But it also means running things with strangers is a gamble, because you don't know if they know what to do (no indication for if someone has run this dungeon 100 times or 10 times or 0). Or the two of you may have different strategies to overcome the dungeon, and those strategies may be incompatible. If someone doesn't know what to do they're often hesistant to ask, asking if someone has run it before often sounds patronizing and it really becomes easier to just not bother grouping with strangers than to teach them dungeons. Because PUGs kinda self select to worse and weaker players and there's no reward scheme to counteract this. Difficulty by obscurity also kinda seems like a bad combination alongside 1% droprates because that means after you've puzzled out a dungeon and know what to do, you still need to run it another 100 times to get the item you want but whatever. Wakfu also has some difficulty by specificity, where certain classes are much stronger at certain tasks than others (especially in moon section). In theory this might encourage players to make different groups, in practice if your class is really good at something you're still not really incentivized to help some guy you don't know with a task you don't care about and the need for certain classes/roles can push players to assembling more of a team of their own which then leads to them grouping even less. Things like a broken group finder, restricted guild slots alongside heroes needing to all be in the same guild, chronically bugged contact lists (possibly fixed now?) all further encourage insular behaviour. Which is a problem in an MMO.

Actually let's talk a moment about different types of MMO players.

Achievers want to progress and advance. This is probably the type of player best served by the game at the moment, but I will definitely argue that stasis reward curve kinda destroys any sense of achievement from moving to higher stasis difficulties. Levelling up to the next tier can feel like you're making progress as you move to new and different content, moving up in stasis difficulty for an increase in droprate at the cost of even greater increase in run time does not feel rewarding.
Explorers want to find new things and discover new stuff. Wakfu does have some secrets to find, but they're mostly mapped out by now. You can try to come up with novel build ideas and team compostions, but you need a pretty high mastery of the game and resource investment to actually make those things happen beyond mere theory craft and the community is small so not many people will notice or care about your discoveries.
Socializers like interacting with other people. Well I just detailed above how that's essentially pointless in this game. And as a pure social space wakfu is seriously inferior to a chatroom (except maybe if you really like the character design and costumes?).
Killers like attacking and antagonizing other people. Well they just disabled PvP and haven't implemented the replacement PvP system so lol.

Basically NOBODY is satisfied with this game right now (though achievers will only become dissatisifed after they hit max level).

I mean I don't even know why players have any hope about the server merge. Because for me the issues isn't lack of players, it's lack of any reason to interact with them. And adding more players to walk past does nothing to change that.

- Communication and response to feedback. There are changes I think this game really desperately needs, but I have seen 0 indication that devs even care about the problem. And I was fine with that when they were making some good quality of life improvements to the game, or substantiative content updates. But right now it seems like the changes they're making are either pointless or they actively make the game worse, with little reason prompting them. Willpower was a negative change. Removing half the drago turkeys was a negative change. Removing the ability to drop items and removing the option to see fights in the environment are directly removing options from players (not tremendously important options though sure) and I think the justification is so they can improve game performance. But I've found performance worse on 1.57 from the DC bug.They also had a work-in-progress bugs list which was I thought a great idea because often bug reporting felt kinda futile and pointless, but they seemed to abandon it after like a week.


Maybe people disagree with some of that or don't care about some things. That's fine. But still I'm definitely arguing that a lot of MAJOR systems are still kinda fundamentally broken. And I think it's telling that people still talk about this game's "potential" instead of trying to identify something it actually does well. Because it's hard to find something really special in the game that you can point to and say "This. This is why I play wakfu".

I mean I do of course want this game to succeed. But I also want it to be good. And I think the former would be much easier to accomplish if they first managed the latter lol.

I know this wasn't the direction you intended for your topic, but if you're concerned about Wakfu "dying" I think it's relevant to discuss the factors why that might be the case.

Score : 467
I think your break down of the game's current state is very good.
Score : 283
Very nice summary, a must read for everyone. If Ankama worked together with players such as yourself, we wouldn't be in this situation.
They won't, I know that, but still... I can dream...
Score : 548
TY Haylen  that summary was really neccesary hope we all push this thread so maybe a Dev can speak their words  in order to publicly  debate and try understand why they  seem so far to success with this amazing game .
Lot of potential in  the wrong hands is my opinion , at this point after almost 11 years Ankama  games  i think they need to change inhouse chiefs  , why? because is just wierd how they had to make lot of servers in dofus  once, now in the low community they have in comparison to golden dofus years , they forced to merge servers .... in wakfu the same and theres a scenario you didnt bring out : worldwide payment , some years back there was something great ,basically if you coudnt pay because the service was unable in angola  , you ingame easly found some code seller that make you happy for a week because of their service , Ankama instead of  own this service they prefered to closed the gaps so no code seller can  exist , by making bad payment changes. This is a big point, i think because lot of Ankama´s games lovers are living in countries that the service is unable .... why limit your playerbase from the base ? buying punishment

Wakfunding proved Ankama and the playerbase, that the game can stand alone with the players support open again the game for everyone in all countries must be huge in order to re-order the servers population and activity .

some paradigms i think you cant touch for a healthy growing game  :
1-worlwide payment and support (if cant handle a lot of country currency changes and politicy then at least a worldwide code base way to buy )

2-fix first  than new content (after 5 years of game most players still feel is a beta game)

3-30% nerfs 70 % buffing (players are sheeps that feel happy and get fat by eating a lot ^^)

4-no link (items, gears , etc) (is just frustrating for the economy)

5-unique ...what a word but irl and in games people base themselves on this  , so make more options (hairstyles, faces, even shapes  for characters, also limited edition costumes , recycle gears for mimics , etc)

6- more rewards for the playerbase that grind 24/7 like bots making the game active and hopefull for the newcommers 

7- feedback  (when more than the 51% of your playerbase are upset for the changes well why not  make a step a back ?)

 maybe there are lot more but this atm in my head  ... i really ignore if the constantly game bugs and stuff are due to an intentional time-beast-eater or that are old code problems that still push to bother if is because is old problems that was and will be there  forever..... why not planning  a remake of the whole game ...well idk about this but in my imagination works , example like copy pste all the programming that have 0 bugs  and the others just reworkthem and merge basically in a non active server that Ankama should have , could remake wakfu with 0 bugs , migrating all the playerbase to a just 1 huge server as in dofus 3

srry for my bad english hope you get the point .ty

Score : 10099
"I think the problem for grouping with strangers only occurs at high lvl content starting at moon or maybe xelorium where dungeons really start to get more mechanics. Most lower lvl dungeons require maybe 2,3 sentences to explain and are not really difficult mechanic wise.

Also i think there are alot of solo or 3 char players who would greatly benefit from increased players population. Beeing able to run things on low stasis is always better then just finding no one and ending up closing wakfu client.

Obviously the other problems you mentioned still exist but these problems are mostly seen in endgame content.

I think we just need to have a bigger playerbase so that the low lvl players can play the game and have fun and maybe stick to wakfu until they they reach the endgame.

So i think the most urgent update would be the server merge.

Obviously the problems you stated still exists so they need to be fixed afterwards. But i think it's the best way of stopping the game from dying.

But that would be another move towards new players and pushing the endgame players needs back. Which is also bad. But tbh there are not many players who're completely maxed out like you. "

Yeah I'm focussed on endgame problems because yeah that's the stage of the game I'm at and people inevitably pay more note to the problems that directly affect them than the problems they don't personally encounter but hear about second hand.

That said I really think wakfu presents itself better in the early and midgame than at endgame. I mean I played solo sram at moon so I definitely encountered some SEVERE lfg problems and some "none of my friends are on, guess I'll log off" problems but that was endgame at the time. And at lower levels finding a group was much easier, because well dungeons were simpler and much more forgiving about team compositions .. and well you could still make good progress without even needing a group. Increased player population wouldn't have made much of a difference to me back when I was levelling.

Maybe the community has shrunk since then and finding groups for say lvl 100-140 content is harder. That may well be the case. But if so, then merging your shrinking communities seems like it should be a secondary priority compared to addressing the reasons why the population was shrinking in the first place, otherwise you'll end right back in the same scenario.

And I do know lots of players who've quit, but anecdotally it seems like it was mainly them quitting at or near end game.
Hi guys,

Your feedback has been shared with the team. It has been fairly constructive at this point and we appreciate it.
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