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Why new Collision update is executed poorly (ver 1.56)

By Reg3e - MEMBER - November 16, 2017, 11:29:10

It's a nerf to class who previously can do collision damage, and a buff to class who previously can't do collision damage. No damage or what so ever to the class negatively impact.

Doesn't make sense does it.

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Score : 9068

It is probably intended to be a "promotion" to the new Force of WIll mechanic they implemented.
Since more classes can reduce ap now, there is more reason for people to put points into it....

I don't like it either, since reducing AP has next to no (feeled) effect on monsters...
Especially since the results are so meager....

---->Ergo, it is probably another aspect to their, in my opinion, misguided, PvP "improving" attempts....

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I think, actually, the intent was to make Collision a properly balanced "global" mechanic. After all, the previous behavior of collision was kind of clunky and confusingly implemented.

Also, the old collision mechanics had the distance of a push directly linked to the amount of damage collision could deal, which lead to some absurd damage values on some pushes (Notably, Iop's Wallop combo and Boss monsters with push spells could hit way harder than is remotely reasonable for a niche mechanic).

So I don't quite agree with the reasoning of this post. Whether it's a buff or a nerf for classes with existing collision effects is iffy, since AP removal is a very strong effect. It is definitely a buff for classes with pushes who didn't used to deal collision effects though.

If I had to review the change I'd say this:

  • Collision is now a global mechanic that works for everybody!
  • Collision is no longer tied to the distance of the push, making it much easier to balance with strong positioning effects!
  • Now every class with a push has tools to interact with collision based mechanics.
  • AP removal is a very strong effect, and its strength does not scale very well with level.
  • When resisted, AP removal has no effect at all, leading to cases where collisions have no apparent effect.
  • The fact that AP removal can be resisted (semi-randomly!) creates poor interactions with mechanics related to collision.
  • The Masqueraider playstyle was negatively impacted by the changes. AP chipping an enemy monster is not usually worth risking AP chipping an ally!
  • AP removing collision has unfortunate interactions when a character is pushed onto a hazard tile.
  • Now every single character with a push has the potential to remove AP.
  • Now every single monster with a push has the potential to remove AP.

Basically, I think a small, scaling chunk of damage would have better interactions. But I generally agree with the decision to make collision a global mechanic not scaling by the power of the push. And I even think the style of the effect was pretty clever, it just doesn't play nice with the game's other mechanics. So I disagree with OP.

(Note: If even a handful of the above negatives changed, I'd consider it a net positive change.)
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Score : 11804

Agreed on most things.

However whilst I do think AP removal is a strong effect in theory, I think in PvE in practice it doesn't actually accomplish much. Many PvE enemies won't spend all their AP or have 0 cost attacks so AP chip doesn't feel like it meaningfully impacts their damage output (at least not consistently). There's also a burst damage meta so -2AP on an enemy can feel like a downgrade compared to burstier damage.. since if you scored a kill that's essentially -100% AP.

AP chip can be meaningful if you stack a lot of it, but at that point you probably could've killed the enemy in question if it was a mob. And if it's a boss then they get hyperimmunity every 15 removal attempts (this is a bug and it should be 15 successful removals rather than 15 removal attempts but whatever) so it doesn't really seem like something you can rely on.

If mobs operated on the same rules players do then AP chip would be a strong effect yeah. But doing that kinda requires rebalancing every enemy in the game.

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Score : -434

By dpt went up by 20% after update.

My collision heals as well.

I can sometimes steal more than 5 ap from people.

Mp for scherzo is no longer relyant on collision to deal damage.

For some stupid reason I can nerf my own ap with backbwat though... Idk what the devs were thinking there.

Over all mask as a whole benifitsd largely from the update.
And we are basically the only collision class.

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I always thought reverse backbeat was a glitch everyone abused, i mean it's meant to get away from enemies as a coward mask tree

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It caused some huge issues with masq that I’m not a fan of

I almost never wanna use backbeat now I’m opting back into my old fugue shenanigans and taking ap off ally’s is a nightmare

If they implemented it so you STOLE the ap instead of just taking it away it might feel like a larger impact especially for masqueraider who has a handful of low cost spells that can still do good damage


cody5|2017-11-17 12:00:32
I always thought reverse backbeat was a glitch everyone abused, i mean it's meant to get away from enemies as a coward mask tree

it was confirmed by Dy7 when the masq revamp happened that it was intended like a year and a half ago
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I was going to suggest that too. Stealing would've been a better addition.Since it doesn't deal damage. it wouldn't be anymore useful than using a damage spell. But for Masq, it would be a buff. One that they sort of needed.

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