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[Astrub] Why these monsters are too powerful

By Heimero - MEMBER - October 15, 2016, 19:45:58

The title says for itself...

Why Astrub monsters have a LOT OF resistance?
It was suposed to?

I mean, in others main region (Amakna, Brakmar, Bonta and Sufokia) the monsters have lesser resistance, and are more "easy" to solo, or something like that, even when a party play...

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First Ankama intervention

Hello everyone,

Thank you for the feedback, it will be discussed with the team.

See message in context
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Score : 2494

It's good practice to teach new players how to check a monsters resistance and learn which elemental spells to use against which monsters.

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Score : 787

While I was pretty shocked to see the new buffed piwis and them being really resistant in their color's element, but players should be looking at the resistance of mobs. Since all spells levels are now equal to the player's level and most low level equips give elemental mastery in all elements it should not a problem. It is a matter of just swapping out spells in your deck before a fight.

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Score : 1787

PIWIS OP AF

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Score : 25024

They are meant to be hard to kill. The game is supposed to be tactical, and not about bursting down enemies easily and getting levels fast. If they are strong and resistant then you need to use tactic to win. It also show players that this game won't be easy later on either.

The fact that monsters in nations are still easy to kill is simple: Ankama had only time to revamp Astrub. Rest assured they won't leave monsters in other regions as weak as now. They will all be buffed up one day.

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Score : 90
Heimero|2016-10-15 19:45:58
The title says for itself...

Why Astrub monsters have a LOT OF resistance?
It was suposed to?

I mean, in others main region (Amakna, Brakmar, Bonta and Sufokia) the monsters have lesser resistance, and are more "easy" to solo, or something like that, even when a party play...
Seeing this, I decided to create a new character to try out from even Incarnam. The monsters are indeed too strong for beginners surrounding Astrub.
Good luck retaining frustrated & confused new comers that just started while old veterans don't even care much for Astrub except rushing through to power level them.

While the intention is clear to promote tactical and team-plays for mobbing, good luck once again finding parties everytime with this withering population except inviting friends to play.

Dungeons are no-no soloing as well.

Great way to stuck below 25. And I thought 130-140 is when frustration starts.

But its funny though seeing new players dying left and right building cemeteries all over the place.

xXRonndoXx|2016-10-15 22:18:30
While I was pretty shocked to see the new buffed piwis and them being really resistant in their color's element, but players should be looking at the resistance of mobs. Since all spells levels are now equal to the player's level and most low level equips give elemental mastery in all elements it should not a problem. It is a matter of just swapping out spells in your deck before a fight.
Swapping is too situational in Astrub fighting below level 20, some classes suck at certain element which are more on support/utility instead of dealing damage, not to mention not having some skills unlocked yet.
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Score : 1353

Stasis

That is all.

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Score : 5756

It's a strategy game, don't forget... and also consider that the Mentor System will be added to the game too.

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Score : 2494

The difficulty level in Astrub is now more on par with the difficulty level of endgame.

To put things in perspective I can barely solo a single level 175 moon monster with a level 180 character. Towards endgame the monsters have more than 60% resistance in every single element. This is intended to be a very difficult game, best to get prepared for the difficulty level earlier rather than later.

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Score : 1010
Aacher|2016-10-16 06:15:34
It's a strategy game, don't forget... and also consider that the Mentor System will be added to the game too.
Pfft like late november at this rate,
I wanna help my newbies as soon as possible.
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Hello everyone,

Thank you for the feedback, it will be discussed with the team.

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Score : -3032
KKthulhu|2016-10-17 06:28:01
Aacher|2016-10-16 06:15:34
It's a strategy game, don't forget... and also consider that the Mentor System will be added to the game too.
Pfft like late november at this rate,
I wanna help my newbies as soon as possible.
so make a new character is that really so hard
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Score : 90

It is currently near to impossible for characters below 25 to complete tofu dungeon, even with 5 players or more together.
with constant almost 200 damage a turn (AOE) from just the boss alone and sometimes even get back to full hp at some point of the fight.

Not sure what's going on, and new comers I met are almost have next to no idea about builds and mechanics, let alone "tactical fights" positioning. Before long they learn how to play like end game, its more like good game and quit.

Flatops|2016-10-17 07:54:08
Hello everyone,

Thank you for the feedback, it will be discussed with the team.

Not sure how true this is and how much effect will it be on the Dev side, nonetheless, its still heart warming to know at least some guy from the team took notice.
Please accept critics when players care, its too late when no one even want to reply and withers away.
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Score : 6292
KyrieZalzy|2016-10-17 17:57:59
It is currently near to impossible for characters below 25 to complete tofu dungeon, even with 5 players or more together.
with constant almost 200 damage a turn (AOE) from just the boss alone and sometimes even get back to full hp at some point of the fight.

Not sure what's going on, and new comers I met are almost have next to no idea about builds and mechanics, let alone "tactical fights" positioning. Before long they learn how to play like end game, its more like good game and quit.
Flatops|2016-10-17 07:54:08
Hello everyone,

Thank you for the feedback, it will be discussed with the team.

Not sure how true this is and how much effect will it be on the Dev side, nonetheless, its still heart warming to know at least some guy from the team took notice.
Please accept critics when players care, its too late when no one even want to reply and withers away.

Yup, the Tofu dungeon is rediculous for its level, especially in comparison to the Gobball one. The Boss' damage is insane (least for its lvl)
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Score : 37077

Learning tactical play should be a progression not thrown in your face the minute you make your character

I agree that they should read resistances but theres no reason that you need end game difficulty at level 1

Slowly introduce harder and harder content like you did before

When whispers came out we all got a slap in the face of reality to how hard this game will get now a days whispers is a joke but level 100 was the right time to enforce tactical play not level 6

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Score : 25024
KyrieZalzy|2016-10-17 17:57:59
It is currently near to impossible for characters below 25 to complete tofu dungeon, even with 5 players or more together.
with constant almost 200 damage a turn (AOE) from just the boss alone and sometimes even get back to full hp at some point of the fight.
What are you talking about is pure speculation.

Just to make sure everything is fine, i started new character, i leveled it in astrub alone and it was all fine. Environmental quests were also fun to do, especially since now there is no quester block and you can jump from map to map to do them one after another. But fights are also easy. Obviously if a level 6 rush into fight with 20lvl warchief, then most likely he will die with no experience, bad map, etc. (some classes can win such fight but it require knowledge about class and mechanics). But its normal that a monster 2x of your level has adventage and easily kills you. Would you try to kill 180 lvl monster with 90 level toon? Good luck doing so.

Also i invited some randoms. Osamodas level 18, huppermage level 21, iop level 38 and me as 23 lvl sadida. We cleared tofu dungeon as 4 people, with just 1 being iop level 38, but that iop was new player too, not experienced and undergeared. He also wasnt doing much more dmg then we did ourself and he only had like 300 hp more then level 20-25 character. Considering we lacked of 2 people it was quite fair fight, or rather we still were at disadventage.

Mind you, boss does hit hard, but there is a way to play around it If YOU use tactic. Boss uses aoe on gathered targets, thats his ai preference. Using summons as decoys for boss to aoe them saves player's the trouble of taking the hit. Using huppermage to tank with stronghold fixed 1000 protection of dmg is also crazy good there. Staying away is adviced there, as its a dungeon for ranged toons. In contrary gobbal is easier for melee's then ranged, so there's that. If you run in tofu dungeon, surround the boss with your army of iops and you expect to win, then you will obviously die.

Soloing this boss also seems impossible, unless maybe you are eliotrope or huppermage with that stronghold, but i doubt that. But its normal that 25 lvl character cannot solo this dungeon. Its not meant to be soloed at this level, but it IS doable by party of 3 people i say, and its way easier if you have full team.

The players can learn from this fight to not stay close to eachother, to avoid being aoe'd thats a wise lesson for the future. The dungeon is fine, and monster difficulty is as well.

The only problem might be that there is no class guide npc's, which you'd expect to be in incarnam. But since people avoid incarnam anyway, then perhaps there should be some guide in astrub, maybe some quest that trigger right away that will teach each class how to use own spells, but that would require ankama to make such quest different for every class (and adapt changes to it in case of revamp). So likely won't happen.

Imo its good to make it tactical game right away. Having it easy at start and then complaining that you cannot beat dungeons that are not in nations will make you feel like you wasted time in a game that you expected to be easy.

The environmental bosses however, seems to have too much resist indeed (and dmg), for the area. It is possible to defeat them, mind you, but you need special map for it (long hedge) and special class skills for it, which some classes dont have (teleportations, jumps, throws, etc). Either that or using summons and playing around with monster ai by hoping it will go hit summons and not you. Either work, but its still long fight, of repeating the same thing over and over untill the boss die, which is too much of a time waste if you ask me. And appearently doing this environemental bosses in group will most likely lead to all of the players except one to die. I doubt its intentional.

TL;DR: the only monsters that are overpowered for their area level range are environmental bosses (not hordes). Bosses in dungeons are fine, i tested it with randoms of low level.

EDIT:

It appers Royal Tofu gain buff to final damage (and decrease of resist in same time) when players use aoe's. I learned this after 2nd run, so its not hard to figure. At first I thought its only when you hit the boss with aoe, but it just seems to work on any monster used. So its basically anti aoe boss. Also at some point it is also healed when you aoe it, but regardless of the deep mechanic behind it, just not using aoes is enough to know. Unless, of course, you dont mind to make boss a glass cannon berserk.

Also, its also possible to do this boss with 2 players (once you learn to not use aoes). Here's proof, i did it with just sadi and the newly met huppermage newbee:



So please stop saying the content is impossible to do for low level players. Belive in people being smart, even the new players. Those who join this game expect it to be turn based tactical mmo, so let's not dissapoint them at least with the turn based tactical aspect, because mmo is already questionable for wakfu description due to heroes and multi boxing.

I hope this time ankama won't nerf the monsters difficulty to make them boring and weak. They are fine as they are now, and i hope more monsters will be adapted to this level of difficulty.

p.s. side note but party search stil shows offline players being registered. [bug]
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Score : 90

As a matter of fact, I did tested and its not speculation. Perhaps you just skipped though the middle and read only the last post.
And I did runs with all pure new comers but never tried with classes with summons. Even had a new comer with level 3x. (For relic quest)

For your argument and proof of dungeon completion,
Well, good for you, and let's hope the new comers are as veteran and deep in the game mechanic as you.

Its like after saying human can't possibly swim across a whole sea region, then someone put it to test and proves one can,
however the fact is that those people are the minorities, while most people are ordinary swimmers.

If what you meant is Wakfu should only contain those minority of players, so be it. Since most likely only those will reach to end games.
#sourmuch

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Score : 16268

honestly it's hard to say what you'll run into with complete newcomers.

I made a brand new iop on Remington server, and ended up partying with a level 18 Sadida who didn't seem to be wearing anything but a green piwi cape... and she refused to do anything but attack enemies with her knife. Still don't know what that was about.

Dunno what you do with that. I think I'd rather see the game (gently, if possible) steer players toward learning its mechanics, since at higher levels that's mandatory. Maybe the monsters resistances are too much, but they should be signficant enough that players learn that resistances are a factor.

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Score : 744

Perhaps new players attempting their first dungeon solo need a little 'hint' ... like playing a different music track when they enter the dungeon. This one should send the right message: biggrin

Click here

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Score : 988
MiniMikeh|2016-10-17 21:37:05
Learning tactical play should be a progression not thrown in your face the minute you make your character

I agree that they should read resistances but theres no reason that you need end game difficulty at level 1

Slowly introduce harder and harder content like you did before

When whispers came out we all got a slap in the face of reality to how hard this game will get now a days whispers is a joke but level 100 was the right time to enforce tactical play not level 6


Agree completely.

Veteran players making new characters and declaring the content doable are forgetting that true newbies don't yet fully appreciate the importance of maximising armor, spell combos, stat placement etc. It's all bread-and-butter stuff that players learn as they progress, not something they should be expected to be competent at from the get-go.
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