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Class Passive Glitches / Weakest PvP Class

By Beezle December 10, 2015, 08:54:29

I havent posted on the forums in a while, so spoiler alert. Ill be talking about how panda is the weakest pvp class. It is my main class, i've spent months on it; trying to make it better in every way possible. Went from tankish build, to single target range, aoe range, all dmg; everything. The only thing panda is good for is being a Tossing mule. Pros of panda: mobility and tossing/positioning. Panda excels at both, but here's the thing NONE of those gives panda any advantage in pvp.

Now before i proceed, i want to make one thing clear. Im talking about pvp around lvl 175. I havent made it lvl 200, but what do pandas really gain from passives... 5 % final dmg on refreshment ( that is an extremely unreliable passive). and + 40 resist from pandemic ( very good passive); none of which will allow a panda to beat any class. Most classes can sabilize (themselves or panda), can TP ( so no kiting), they either Out number( sadida osa ) / out dmg( all dmg dealers)/ out heal ( sadida/ eni ) / out tank ( feca fogger, eca) a panda. Only thing pandas are potentially good for is kiting. They got all the tools for it, but Kiting is a thing of the past. Map positioning and map size kills it, like you really cant kite unless you get one of those absurdly wide maps that are only obtainable on certain areas of wakfu.
Here's on thing that i know will show up... how karchamrak cost 2 ap can toss up to 5 cells away. All i gotta tell you is try to pvp with a panda. 1 day. fight every class same lvl as you. Gear up to the T, and let me know how you do vs every class. I've been doing this since the lvl 100 + revamp. Getting my ass kicked by a lvl 155 sadida and lvl 156 iop def left a bitter taste. Im sick and tired of putting in all this work to achieving nothing. If some other panda knows something just post a high lvl pvp battle result showing what panda beat what class[ clearly going to get trolled]. Maybe it will give me and some other pandas hope. ( none of them bullshit pvp fight. lvl 175 above)

Anyways i made this post to allow people to show not necessarily the weaknesses but the bug/ and inconsistencies in their classes passives and spells. Allow me to start... I've mentioned this before but the devs and people on the forum need visuals to understand.

Spells: Over all panda is an AoE class, been said by devs that aoe spells have 80-85 % the base dmg of their single target counter part, but this is no excuse for explosive flask.



The cell circled in yellow, is the most useless cell in this AoE. There is... NO situation where you can successfully hit 5 targets with that spell. Seriously, imagine a feca at Mr. Punchys spot surrounded by enemies. Find the angle to fit all AoE cells. That AoE only makes sense with the barrel toss ( with that you could hit targets on all cells). This doesnt even pair up properly with flaming burp.

Passives + actives: Every class I've seen so far benefits from a specific stat. Iops block to crits conversion. fecas lock to resist, Cras range to final dmg, the list goes on. Pandas passives/ and active are Hp dependant; would have been great if that HP actually worked with other stats, or even worked properly with passives.

Bamboozle: 10 % of max HP as armor [ works] 10 % of 14009 = 1400.9



Barrel: 20 % of pandas HP + 50 % barrel litter with passive. ( roughly 30 %) [ Works]
30 % of 14009 hp = 4229.7.... barrel Hp kinda close to that.


Master of merriment: 5 % heal of max HP... 5 % of 14009 is 437. Here's where ankama math kicks in. When i punch that shit in a fckin calculator i get 704.95



Bottomless barrel: heals 12 % of missing Hp... 12 % of 9882 is 730!!? 12 % of almost 10k is 700 not 1200, but 730 REALLY ??. True heal value = 1185.84. Before anyone talks about heal resist. This was done of 0 heal resist. it wast even showing when both of these test were done.



I ddnt want to do anymore test after seeing this bull shit.... Some classes got some sweet passive when it comes to dmg. Enis for example got 240 % aoe dmg, xelors get 160 (?) long range some number close to that, both get that with some final dmg.

Where am i trying to go with this ?
Well a good friend of mine did some test with Final dmg and Damage dealt. The conclusion, he came to, was that damage dealt is double the value of final dmg. How did he do his test. He's an Osa. Every osa gets final dmg in dragon from control. So he got up to 32 final dmg ( cause 30 is impossible seeing how it their final dmg increases by 4). He then swapped that passive with carnage, which is 15 % Damage dealt, and he was pretty much doing the same dmg values. Osas feel free to test this and confirm it for yourselves.

So, How will i bring this back to panda ? Panda has 2 passives that give dmg dealt. 10 % and 15 %. That's 50 % final dmg ( untill the damage dealt vs final is proven wrong) . Panda has a spell Lactic Acid whic at lvl175 does 82 base dmg + 10 % when carrying the barrel; so 90.2 base dmg for 4 ap. 25 % dmg dealt is constant, but a lvl 155 iop will out dmg a 175 panda on the first turn and throughout the fight with a 3 ap move that does 71 base dmg at 175.

Basically what im trying to say is pandas passives arent working the way they should. Bottomless barrel and Master of merriment are a prime example. If those HP passives arent functioning properly i believe the dmg passive arent working either.

Some shit jst ddnt add up through all my test, no matter what gear upgrade i got whether it was SB gear Dora N.i.o that new Ap range epic, there was no noticeable improvement. Well now I have visual proof, that some shit is wrong, and i encourage everyone to do some tests and post their findings here.
im on the verge of quitting this game. My main focus was lvling and gearing for pvp, but they aren't making this easy. If i get some response like the description on panda passives are wrong. Im done. Pandas have been cheated out of their revamp, their unique abilities were shared with every class and the think that people sets pandas apart from every other class is actually their greatest weakness in PvP.

Beezle

Edit: like i said im constantly doing tests. Did a test as soon as i finished this forum post. Turns out the glitch is with the General Passive Rock. When i removed rock all the math was done right, heals improved and blah blah. This jst means Pandas jst fckin suck. holy shit. Haha this might as well be my farewell forum post. Gave this shit game one last try.
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Beezle|2015-12-10 08:54:29
The only thing panda is good for is being a Tossing mule. Pros of panda: mobility and tossing/positioning. Panda excels at both, but here's the thing NONE of those gives panda any advantage in pvp.
Panda is best tosser class.

But seriously, can you show us your build?

Edit: Yeah, I thought that it was because of the Rock passive too. Tanky sadidas have the same problem. Rock does not affect shields though, it that's any help.
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Git. Gud.

And LOL Rock is not glitched, it is supposed to debuff your heals.

Seriously, try to develop your playstyle and build better.

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Beezle|2015-12-10 08:54:29



The cell circled in yellow, is the most useless cell in this AoE. There is... NO situation where you can successfully hit 5 targets with that spell. Seriously, imagine a feca at Mr. Punchys spot surrounded by enemies. Find the angle to fit all AoE cells. That AoE only makes sense with the barrel toss ( with that you could hit targets on all cells). This doesnt even pair up properly with flaming burp.

Funny fact, invisible targets don't block line of sight. If a sram uses invis to escape lock on something you can utilize it as part of the aoe and do damage to that cell, it also works well on the tiny sram monsters.
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That cell of the AOE is also quite useful when you're using Explosive Flask to throw something. Damage ratios on AOEs are such that as long as you hit at least two targets, you're coming out ahead over using single target spells.

And pandas get Poisoned Chalice, which is one of the stronger damage passives for an AOE class. Literally the only problem with Poisoned Chalice is that Bubble Trouble, Light My Fire and Milk Wave never stack dizzy for some silly reason (imagine the damage if Milk Wave generated +7 dizzy when cast on the barrel).

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Gelgy|2015-12-10 15:57:48
That cell of the AOE is also quite useful when you're using Explosive Flask to throw something. Damage ratios on AOEs are such that as long as you hit at least two targets, you're coming out ahead over using single target spells.

And pandas get Poisoned Chalice, which is one of the stronger damage passives for an AOE class. Literally the only problem with Poisoned Chalice is that Bubble Trouble, Light My Fire and Milk Wave never stack dizzy for some silly reason (imagine the damage if Milk Wave generated +7 dizzy when cast on the barrel).
If they did it would sharply close the gap between panda and cra AOE.
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@GreenEmerald: i dont have one build. I got several seeing how i've done mutiple tests. Ill prob share them all before december. No longer have a reason to keep my build to my self.

@Shankissimo: Been said i've tried errything.... Panda has a huge burst dmg potential, but it doesnt feel like much when you're base dmg average is around 250 and other classes is around 380 - 350. In order for panda to reach those values it needs to consume dizzy. You every try to get 15 dizzy on a single target every turn ? And its not as if a panda can do better in a 2 vs 1 fight jst because he's and Aoe class. Only true bonus he gets apart from hitting two targets at the same time is 15 % ( preparation goes from 45 % to 60 %).. Bet you never heard a panda say he won a 2 vs 1 against two of any class. If i were to follow a different logic, it would be that the more players a panda faces the stronger it should be seeing how its an AoE class... ha hah hah ha.

@Rrae: Explosive flask wasnt linear before the panda revamp. At an angle you could hit a tank + all locked mobs. Pandas apparently need an invis target spell to use of its own spell... As i said above is that aoe size only works with barrel toss... as a spell cast use im being forced to lvl milking it ) not that i have a particular problem with it)

@gelgy: I understand that, but this is where passives needs to kick in. They need to give a class the opportunity to compete with dmg dealer classes. A good example is Sadida. in term of raw power its at the bottom of the list with panda, but once its little army pops out, its virtually impossible to defeat it. It forces other classes to waste AP on the dolls. Now if you compare that to panda's Barrel. Barrel is shit. Having it on the map is pointless. its as weak a cras beacon and as useful as a xelors Dial ( /sarcasm). Xelor dial does a batter job when it comes to blockin LOS and benefiting form its bonuses.

Poisoned Chalice... hahah dont get me wrong i like this, but if losing heal on are strongest heal spells wasnt enough, pandas have to lose 50 resist. thats its even the big problem with poisoned chalice... its the fact that only single target affects its dmg. A single target passive on an AoE class.

in PvP panda cant keep up. People like to say 1 vs 1 pvp isnt a thing that 6v6 is where its at. Those people are jst making excuses for Ankama. there's ia a freaing leader board, that clearly people dont give a shit about. All i got to say is the rank 1 mfker up there is there by himself. Solo not him and his 5 other memebers. So you can do 6 vs 6 with all the toons you want and all the people on the server, but AT SOME POINT there's gonna have to be a 1 vs 1 battle to decide who's rank 1. Just think about tht. I guess i was unfortuante enough to designate Panda as my pvp class, but i aint going back on my word its Panda or nuthing. And since panda CLEARLY is the shittiest PvP class, i got no choice but the throw in the towel

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I did the math myself, I'm not sure what mistake you made, but the barrel HP is actually 1.3 higher than it should be (the picture showed 4204, I got 4202.7), the rest of your math checks out. So clearly, there are some bugs here or the game doesn't calculate it the same way we are... Which would sort of be a glitch in itself.

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Beezle|2015-12-10 18:31:27
@GreenEmerald: i dont have one build. I got several seeing how i've done mutiple tests. Ill prob share them all before december. No longer have a reason to keep my build to my self.

@Shankissimo: Been said i've tried errything.... Panda has a huge burst dmg potential, but it doesnt feel like much when you're base dmg average is around 250 and other classes is around 380 - 350. In order for panda to reach those values it needs to consume dizzy. You every try to get 15 dizzy on a single target every turn ? And its not as if a panda can do better in a 2 vs 1 fight jst because he's and Aoe class. Only true bonus he gets apart from hitting two targets at the same time is 15 % ( preparation goes from 45 % to 60 %).. Bet you never heard a panda say he won a 2 vs 1 against two of any class. If i were to follow a different logic, it would be that the more players a panda faces the stronger it should be seeing how its an AoE class... ha hah hah ha.

@Rrae: Explosive flask wasnt linear before the panda revamp. At an angle you could hit a tank + all locked mobs. Pandas apparently need an invis target spell to use of its own spell... As i said above is that aoe size only works with barrel toss... as a spell cast use im being forced to lvl milking it ) not that i have a particular problem with it)

@gelgy: I understand that, but this is where passives needs to kick in. They need to give a class the opportunity to compete with dmg dealer classes. A good example is Sadida. in term of raw power its at the bottom of the list with panda, but once its little army pops out, its virtually impossible to defeat it. It forces other classes to waste AP on the dolls. Now if you compare that to panda's Barrel. Barrel is shit. Having it on the map is pointless. its as weak a cras beacon and as useful as a xelors Dial ( /sarcasm). Xelor dial does a batter job when it comes to blockin LOS and benefiting form its bonuses.

Poisoned Chalice... hahah dont get me wrong i like this, but if losing heal on are strongest heal spells wasnt enough, pandas have to lose 50 resist. thats its even the big problem with poisoned chalice... its the fact that only single target affects its dmg. A single target passive on an AoE class.

in PvP panda cant keep up. People like to say 1 vs 1 pvp isnt a thing that 6v6 is where its at. Those people are jst making excuses for Ankama. there's ia a freaing leader board, that clearly people dont give a shit about. All i got to say is the rank 1 mfker up there is there by himself. Solo not him and his 5 other memebers. So you can do 6 vs 6 with all the toons you want and all the people on the server, but AT SOME POINT there's gonna have to be a 1 vs 1 battle to decide who's rank 1. Just think about tht. I guess i was unfortuante enough to designate Panda as my pvp class, but i aint going back on my word its Panda or nuthing. And since panda CLEARLY is the shittiest PvP class, i got no choice but the throw in the towel
That leaderboard nobody gives a shit about is because its been boosted, over 60% of players in the top tiers of the pvp rankings on nox and remi have at least partially been boosted to that point. Someone a mile ahead? hard boost check his win streak its prolly 60.

The real issue here is that your the wrong kind of panda and you want to be a fire cra based upon your desire to use fire but pvp heavily relies on shielding, healing, and base resistance. A fire panda gets none of these, fire panda cant keep up in this resistance meta game.

Ever consider why people who pvp the most are lucloak mask, sram, feca? its a funny thing? almost like they do it for a reason?
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i think you are not taking into account that final hp is different than max hp, what you see in a fight is final hp, with rock%, gear hp, skills/passives hp etc, you shield based on you max "base" hp, not the final hp, im bad explaining but hope it helps

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Panda beats Masq pretty easily. Karchamrak makes it nigh impossible for them to use their clone without getting hit by double AoE, and Ether deprives them of Backstab and Knockback.

1v1 isn't balanced and never will be, get over it.

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@Rrae :Im not going to go explaining all this again. I've tried different build. Meaning i wasnt fire all the time. I used to have a lucloak on my panda, that still ddnt help.

Fire is Needed for pandas best burst dmg ( All im going to say on that).

@saphilC2: i get what you're trying to say, but if thats the case rock is kinda useless. in my current situation its 3000 hp for -25 % dmg dealt - 50 % heals performed and +20 (?) % heals received. The debuffs are not worth the HP.

@Tiefoone: "1 vs 1 isnt balance and never will be get over it" That is the type of dumbass comment that isnt needed, and ill break that argument right now. I don't want balance. I want panda to get what ever class has, which is using its speciallity to gain an advantage. Reason why i keep using Sadida as an example. Sadida in a hit for hit fight will lost to almost any class even panda, but as soon as it overwhelms you with dolls thats a whole different story. Osa has 2 vs 1 game style. Rogue bombs bypass coag, iops cant be kited, Cras cant be locked ( except by fecas), Enis can heal and do dmg for the cost of 1 spell. Masq has their double, if a panda beat you. that means you're one of those masq that summons the double on the first turn. Double should be should to burst finish. The moment you start doing that you'll see if a panda every beats your masq every again. Pandas dmg isnt even enough to force you to rush it right of the rip.

Karchamrak: 2 ap known counters stabilize / TP
Barrel : AoE effect so fckin small... and enemies benefit from Milk cloud heals
BarrelHop: Yes it has huuuge range potential. best to flee with, but once you see an iop Jump + bravery standard and do more dmg than you did with his remaining AP/mp/wp... then stabilize you. You don't feel like doing it again.
Ether: can only be activated 1 every 3 turns on one target. 2/3 if you alternate between yourself and enemy, but now there's fuckin destabilize... Where you cant even use it.
Bamboozle: 10 % hp as coag, roughly 1000 hp, Value which gets blown away.

THE ONLY THING i've seen that potentially makes panda "good" is its potential to reduce dmg by 60 %. I mean theoretically, by following the descriptions of this it should be 60. what 20 % dmg reduction + 20 % dmg reduction + another 20 %,,, man fuck it ill jst fckin say it, not like it will help any panda. Bamboozle has -20% melee dmg recieved + pandemic 20 % of dmg recieved is redicted to barrel + block which is another 20 % reduction. Used this against a lvl 155 iop left the match with 1000 hp use this on a 175 + iop i still lose the match.

The issue here isn't about Balance its about a class niche. Panda's Niche is no where as broken as every other class. it doesnt allow it to compete. That is the issue. I dont want pandas to be over powered, thats the reason i picked the class, but i still want to have the tools to compete and bring down the over powered classes.

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Iop can't be kited?! Cra can't be locked?! Please. Stablize + Barrel behind you.

Panda is like a clear counter to the majority of melee classes. I'd argue a Panda could very well beat every single melee class.

How many cells can an Iop cross? Rocknoceros is probably the only reason he may touch you every other turn. MP rape him, throw him, barrel hop. He has to run to you to get you.

Masq, may be the hardest class for Panda to face, but if you are tanky enough. He can't burst you down in 1 turn, as mp rape, barrel hop, make sure the barrel is infront of you. The more tiles they have to cross the less damage they'll do every turn.

But more over 1v1s are garbage and purely based on counters. So I don't think it's necessary to continue. But Panda does beat quite a few classes, I can't see why you would lose to a melee class when you have things like bamboozle and the best kiting ability ever(kachamrak)

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@hearttyace: have you tried being panda ? Have you seen pvp maps ? did you forget both iops and cras can stabilize ? Barrel behind panda ? have you seen retreating arrows dmg ? mp rape ( 6 ap for - 2mp) ? Did you even read ? Holy shit!

No one realizes how GOOD iops jumps is( TP + they get resist) Bravery standard gives 50 res. Do you know what panda has to do to get its resist bonus ?

I've been saying how i've been trying to kite iops, making them waste 8 AP/ all possible mp, and they would still out dmg me with remaining AP. I'm not basing my comments on baseless impressions. I've been trying different shit since the lvl 100 + revamp. Every time i bring this up, I SEE NO PANDA SHOWING OFF... and you know people love to show off...

And because no one plays panda, No one realizes that a set up is required for panda. The time required for the set up is not worth the pay off. A tank panda needs to wait 3 turns before he can benefit from pandas tank mode ( worn-off); especially if the iop plays first. Take the iop 2 turns for SIP set up.

All people do with panda is karch, dairy , and barrel hop. I'm sick of re-explaining myself. Hupermages will be release and that will be another class that pandas cant compete against.

Fuck pandas, and Fuck this game... shitty ass pvp system... shitty ass gear variety... shitty ass passives.

so long suckers

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So if I understand this correctly: You can't win at PVP as a panda, are PO'd at the game, aren't interested in differing viewpoints, and are fed up & leaving?

OK, bye

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Gelgy|2015-12-11 10:56:04
So if I understand this correctly: You can't win at PVP as a panda, are PO'd at the game, aren't interested in differing viewpoints, and are fed up & leaving?

OK, bye
Sounds pretty accurate. smile

They should make a salty sub-forum :p
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Beezle|2015-12-11 10:25:30
@hearttyace: have you tried being panda ? Have you seen pvp maps ? did you forget both iops and cras can stabilize ? Barrel behind panda ? have you seen retreating arrows dmg ? mp rape ( 6 ap for - 2mp) ? Did you even read ? Holy shit!

No one realizes how GOOD iops jumps is( TP + they get resist) Bravery standard gives 50 res. Do you know what panda has to do to get its resist bonus ?

I've been saying how i've been trying to kite iops, making them waste 8 AP/ all possible mp, and they would still out dmg me with remaining AP. I'm not basing my comments on baseless impressions. I've been trying different shit since the lvl 100 + revamp. Every time i bring this up, I SEE NO PANDA SHOWING OFF... and you know people love to show off...

And because no one plays panda, No one realizes that a set up is required for panda. The time required for the set up is not worth the pay off. A tank panda needs to wait 3 turns before he can benefit from pandas tank mode ( worn-off); especially if the iop plays first. Take the iop 2 turns for SIP set up.

All people do with panda is karch, dairy , and barrel hop. I'm sick of re-explaining myself. Hupermages will be release and that will be another class that pandas cant compete against.

Fuck pandas, and Fuck this game... shitty ass pvp system... shitty ass gear variety... shitty ass passives.

so long suckers
Bye.

Just yesterday saw 159 Panda (with nettlez) destroy 180 Cra, as a coincidence biggrin And myself lost to pandas because they kite into corners and deal huge damage with Flaming Burp combo biggrin 
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