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The New Dungeons (Like/Dislike)

By Sheni - MEMBER - July 13, 2015, 15:28:57

I have been wondering what people's opinions have been trying out the newer dungeons, still including the Kelba one - Especially the opinion from people actually trying out the newly introduced dungeons close to their appropriate levels.

Note: I am not looking for responses to complain how said new dungeons are too low level for you, or have been whimsical as an experience because of said reason.

My own reviews so far have been that, while I enjoy the theme, monsters and general mechanics of the newer dungeons (Kelba/Viktoria/Stalagmotel), they all seem to introduce rather remorseless mechanics that feel very punishing when making minor mistakes. Similarly, I feel the monsters are generally way tougher than their level indicates, making it almost impossible to run the dungeons at their appropriate level (Unless our team just really sucks, still a possibility of course)

As examples, the Viktoria dungeon was 'really tough' with a team filled with level 100s to 120s. I can't imagine doing it with a group of 80s, despite the drops at the end of the dungeon being for said level. And we did use a tactic to deal with her ability scavenging mechanic. The Stalagmotel just keeps wrecking us with a level 45 group, have yet to see the boss there as the smallest mechanical mistake seems to snowball into an imminent partywipe.

The same can be said about the boss in Kelba's dungeon, as one slip-up in positioning seems to cause instant-death to partymembers. Can't say there are clear indicators either of this happening.

What are your thoughts on them? (Again, please take their level ranges in consideration)

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Score : 21621

I imagine the mizerium is very hard at level, the rolling pin guys hit my level 175 fully runed enu very hard.

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Score : 932
BrainInAJar|2015-07-13 15:30:16
I imagine the mizerium is very hard at level, the rolling pin guys hit my level 175 fully runed enu very hard.

They hit insanely hard for their level. We had to take them out immediately doing the dungeon, despite knowing the boss would immediately gain buffs for doing so. And we still had a very hard time - The dogs also occassionely spit a good close-to-1000 damage on me, with whatever range buff they can acquire.
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Score : 7322

Hm...those dungeons...lowibes should avoid at all costs.

Stalagmotel will zerg you once mobs start spliting. And the shields they gain after every death makes it even more anoying. I recomend a rogue.

As for Mizerium...mobs hit like a truck. Its a melle worst dungeon. A party will a lot of knockback can do it.

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stalags splitting mechanic was so annoying i decided i'd just buy pieces for the boss set if they showed up on the board.

who designed this encounter? they should earn demerits for not thinking about tedium.

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Score : 932
Yunru|2015-07-13 15:56:38
Hm...those dungeons...lowibes should avoid at all costs.

Stalagmotel will zerg you once mobs start spliting. And the shields they gain after every death makes it even more anoying. I recomend a rogue.

As for Mizerium...mobs hit like a truck. Its a melle worst dungeon. A party will a lot of knockback can do it.

I still don't actually know how to avoid or work-around the splitting mechanic in the Stalagmotel. First time we tried we were doing fine until about 5-6 eggs bursted, spawning more Stalags that again spawned more eggs, that would again burst - It went south fast from there.

The next time we tried, we focussed on taking down the eggs asap, at all times. 3rd room in, the stronger Stalag surprised us by either splitting off again upon death (or triggering something) when he was the last monster around. What we thought would be a victory ended in another snowball party wipe. I got pretty upset with how unforgiving it became, in case we did make some mistake.

And that's basically the problem I am noticing with all these new dungeons - One little slipup and apparently its all over, on top of what feels like all of these dungeons start being doable when you're at least 20 levels higher than they rewards they give.
If I am fighting Grand Orrok for instance, and I am standing somewhere where I am not supposed to be standing, I'd like to be able receive an adequate punishment for it while still allowing me a chance to amend. As it is however, it's an instant-kill instead.

Not sure if RyF designed all of these dungeons, but if so, I hope he'll check this thread for some ideas. wink 
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Score : 1237

Seems that Ankama wants tactical to mean "learn how we want you to do this fight and then adapt classes accordingly." That's how it was with the old Ultimate Bosses and how it is with the new Steel Beak fight. Similar thing in the HC Xelorium dungeons; learn the mechanic or die. On one hand, it puts more emphasis on thinking and not just zerg rushing everything like a lot of other games, but on the other, it can be very deflating for people that aren't geared to the nines. There is a certain point, however, IMO, where if you're so far above the dungeon and are still having trouble, something's wrong with you (gear or lack of tactical awareness), not the dungeon.

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Score : 592

Stalagmotel does REALLY need a nerf, the new stalas do way too much damage for their level, plus they have way too much health and on top of that they build armor :/
Ryf should have taken a look on other nations' special 42 dungeons before making the Stalagmotel, the others are way easier and have better loot (I think >_&gtwink
a level 42 dungeon should be simple not annoying
Same with grand orrok and miseryeum, wayy too much damage for its level, though IMO grand orrok is worse because of the totems and raskaws have higher HP than miseryeum monsters.

So I suggest that stalas armor building mechanic get entirely removed and an HP nerf to the new ones plus the boss, boss has too much HP compared to whirligig/shark /crackler boss and on top of that it splits.

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Score : 8723

I like to call this the 'complex mechanics' theory, where the design team starts to implement overly complicated mechanics that are either comically strong for their range (Lenalds) or so convoluted that they make the dungeon stupidly time consuming even after content is easy. (Hagen, Anything with immunity mechanics, ect.)

It feels like the newer the content, the worse this effect becomes. I always look back at release Vampyro... totally fair dungeon, even with stupid death tiles (which is a bad concept and a cheap way to 'add tactics' IMHO). Comparing that to some of the ridiculous new content just makes the new stuff feel obviously out-of-wack.

- Madd

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vampiro is a brilliant dungeon. when it was the top end content it took real skill and teamwork to do. (at appropriate level)

not every new idea is another vampiro though, sadly.

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I also remember when Vampyro was released. Man, the first time he clinged, me and my entire party shat our pants.

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Score : 16107

I don't think it helps anything that nobody seems to give much feedback on dungeons while they're in beta. Probably because 160 is the easiest level to test stuff at on beta, which kinda undermines attempts to test lower level dungeons.

Next time new dungeons go up on Beta I'm going to try a bit to test them. This past beta trial ended up slipping by me sad 

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Score : 17770

Couldn't really help it when the competing update (spell deck system) was such a huge change and would impact the entire game. Two new lv40-lv80 dungeons just didn't seem as important... I'd chalk it up to bad timing.

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Score : -3017

At least you need to be geared AND play well in order to do these dungeons well with a group of the recommended level - i think same would be with most other dungeons . I think this is what makes PvM fun - most of it is challenging to do even when you are very well geared and slightly bigger than recommended level (pretty sure it would be the samesituation with Blackspore HC, Castuc HC, Infected Cawwot Stowewoom, Lenald Empelol's Temple, even Ow El Dungeon iif one would try doing them with a group of first-timers within recommended level range x) ).

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Score : 8723
blazakkhakabow|2015-07-14 00:34:52
At least you need to be geared AND play well in order to do these dungeons well with a group of the recommended level - i think same would be with most other dungeons . I think this is what makes PvM fun - most of it is challenging to do even when you are very well geared and slightly bigger than recommended level (pretty sure it would be the samesituation with Blackspore HC, Castuc HC, Infected Cawwot Stowewoom, Lenald Empelol's Temple, even Ow El Dungeon iif one would try doing them with a group of first-timers within recommended level range x) ).
I don't think all content should be like this, this is why there are normal dungeons and HC dungeons. It's one thing to have to figure out mechanics that can wreck a run (Srambad) at end game, but when you're still learning the ropes I think overcomplicating dungeons with damning limitations that will automatically wipe you is poor design. Many of the dungeons you mention were like this at release and have since been fixed by patches. The only content that should faceroll you is late-end game content. Early game should be a fun experience all the way around, with options to play harder content available in playing it under-level or via HC versions.

For example: Release Stritch, before anyone played Lock tanks was broken difficult, not in the fun way, but in the way that it forced everyone to roll with a specific build just to succeed. Requiring this level of overspecialization is not healthy to the game IMHO.

- Madd
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Score : 7232
Gelgy|2015-07-14 00:01:34
I don't think it helps anything that nobody seems to give much feedback on dungeons while they're in beta. Probably because 160 is the easiest level to test stuff at on beta, which kinda undermines attempts to test lower level dungeons.

Next time new dungeons go up on Beta I'm going to try a bit to test them. This past beta trial ended up slipping by me sad
i tested them in beta, and they feelt really hard and annoying, even at lvl 175, whats a lvl 70-80 mob doing with 50% resists on every element? or mobs stealing 3mp and 3ap every turn... and other mechanics... but this is not new, ankama is moving to the time wasting strategy, making us waste more and more and more and more time with every update (deck systems contributes to that, and it will even more when they re-re-re-re-revamps mobs to scale to the new damage we do, with the trap of having less resistance, ofc... in the end, ankama always uses that kind of tactics of "ok we give u more damage while we nerf everything else"). About stalagmote... something is wrong if a low lvl dungeon like that takes 20 minutes to beat with a max level, geared, damage dealer character. that only confirms the time wasting tactics ankama are following, artificial dificulty made to waste our time even more. (what ankama fails to notice is, at this rate, they wont get any money from subs)
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Score : 17770
saphiLC|2015-07-14 04:35:36
About stalagmote... something is wrong if a low lvl dungeon like that takes 20 minutes to beat with a max level, geared, damage dealer character. that only confirms the time wasting tactics ankama are following, artificial dificulty made to waste our time even more. (what ankama fails to notice is, at this rate, they wont get any money from subs)
I beat Stalagmote by myself in less than 10 minutes. :|
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Score : 4277

Maybe it's just me, but when Ankama releases new dungeons and we (with not appropriate skill and gear) travel there and die there and then start shit throwing at them it is just a sign that they want us to get better gear and to review our skills. Just an IMHO. I had no trouble at Mizerium, yet need to visit the Stalagmotel.

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Score : 7232
SSBKewkky|2015-07-14 05:26:27
saphiLC|2015-07-14 04:35:36
About stalagmote... something is wrong if a low lvl dungeon like that takes 20 minutes to beat with a max level, geared, damage dealer character. that only confirms the time wasting tactics ankama are following, artificial dificulty made to waste our time even more. (what ankama fails to notice is, at this rate, they wont get any money from subs)
I beat Stalagmote by myself in less than 10 minutes. :|
im talking about beta, i dont play this game anymore so dunno about live, but i literally had the whole map full of mobs

FinroyThePuppeteer|2015-07-14 07:38:02
Maybe it's just me, but when Ankama releases new dungeons and we (with not appropriate skill and gear) travel there and die there and then start shit throwing at them it is just a sign that they want us to get better gear and to review our skills. Just an IMHO. I had no trouble at Mizerium, yet need to visit the Stalagmotel.
mizerium is easy, but mobs are OP for their lvl, stats and skills wise
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Score : 855
blazakkhakabow|2015-07-14 00:34:52
At least you need to be geared AND play well in order to do these dungeons well with a group of the recommended level - i think same would be with most other dungeons . I think this is what makes PvM fun - most of it is challenging to do even when you are very well geared and slightly bigger than recommended level (pretty sure it would be the samesituation with Blackspore HC, Castuc HC, Infected Cawwot Stowewoom, Lenald Empelol's Temple, even Ow El Dungeon iif one would try doing them with a group of first-timers within recommended level range x) ).

Whaaaaaaaaaa
lol no way. Myserium is too hard. It's a level 77 dungeon and my whole team get hurted by those big guys. And we aren't bad at that to the point I needed to use roll again on a partner cause it took 400 damage or so two times per turn or more. They're fragile, yes, but they hit harder than boss (when the latter isn't buffed). My guildies at the level range has difficulties beating it.
And it's a level 77 dungeon. Does it need to be that hard? Most people can't (be) or aren't geared well enough to run a dungeon so hard. Specially at this level. Heck even Cro-Cave is easier and way more doable than this. Heck Vampyro's easier!
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