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Moderator Confirmation PLEASE

By Nanaers - MEMBER - September 14, 2013, 11:26:42

Okay, so ill get straight to the point.

There have been people knowingly abusing the panda-belligerence bug in Remington. Now Ankama has made it clear this is a bug but, what they HAVEN'T made clear is if the strategy is sanctionable.

People have been using this bug for over 1 week now and nothing has happened to them, I honestly hope these underserving shit heads get whats coming to them because if people get away with half a dozen undeserved dragon pig wins...

Thats just pure incompetence on Ankama's im not going to deal with anymore.

A prompt response would be very appreciated.

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Reactions 30
Score : 6591
Nanaers|2013-09-14 11:26:42


...

Thats just pure incompetence on Ankama's im not going to deal with anymore.

...


What we hope is happening at Ankama HQ...

Tot: "Guys, get a move on with the Dragon Pig bug. We've had him delayed long enough as it is."

Grou: "Okay. We have the data on each team that abused the Dragon Pig glitch. Shall we take action?"

Ankama Underlings and Tot: "Yeah!"

What's really happening.

-Tot is casually eating a baguette sub while completely ignoring the rabble in the Development Team's Office Cubicles.

Grou: "Sadidas, Sadidas, Sadidas... that's all I hear Troyle tell me the players are complaining about. Well you know what? I'M TIRED OF LOOKING AT SADIDAS. Moving on, are there any other problems being addressed from the players... Tot? Troyle? Eskarina?"

Troyle: "Well, Sadidas-"

-Grou stares evilly at Troyle.

Troyle: "..."

-Troyle sighs and continues doing his job.

-Eskarina snickers in the background.

-Tot has his mouth stuffed with his baguette sub, but talks anyways.

Tot: "Gwew. Wut abot Draon Pihg? Pwayrz arr aboosing a gwitch."

Grou: "Yeah? And?"

-Tot swallows.

Tot: "Do something about it?"

-Grou writes some theoretical formulas to attempt to find a solution to the problem.

Grou: "This is going to take awhile... damn spaghetti code. Can't fix something without causing other problems in the system. Isn't there someone that can restructure this crap so it's less of a hassle?"

-Blank stares at Grou from all corners of the room.
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Investigations and solutions are currently being worked on. Ankama is fully aware of both the Panda-Belligerence abuse as well as the Doll Seed abuse. You should hear more about their take on it as well as the upcoming repercussions and actions in the near future.

Until then it is best just to be patient. We understand how this can be a frustrating dilemma for players who may not be taking advantage of the abusive strategies.

- Moon 

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MODMoon|2013-09-14 13:55:03
Investigations and solutions are currently being worked on. Ankama is fully aware of both the Panda-Belligerence abuse as well as the Doll Seed abuse. You should hear more about their take on it as well as the upcoming repercussions and actions in the near future.

Until then it is best just to be patient. We understand how this can be a frustrating dilemma for players who may not be taking advantage of the abusive strategies.

- Moon
Thank you, Moon.

Moreover, I think it'd be also a good opportunity to nudge devs in the right direction regarding what they think it's an exploit and what isn't. Wakfu is not a simple game and there will always be tons and tons of emergent behavior they (And we, as players) can't account for.

I think there should be a clearer division between what's considered a valid strategy and what's considered a bug, because my biggest gripe above them all, even more over unbalanced classes and enemies, is simply not knowing if my "clever idea" just completely goes around what a developer had in mind for that specific encounter. I know it's not quite the case with Dragon Pig since they have pretty much confirmed it is indeed unintended, but it's something to be aware of.
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I just dont understand why the Dragon Pig hasnt been closed yet. I mean the longer they linger at making a decision, the more people will abuse the bug, intentionally or not. Then when they come up with a solution, like a server wipe of dp items or a bloody rollback, the outrage will increase in proportion with time.

If they are afraid of people complaining not being able to try DP, disable the drops, yes some groups might be beating it with legitimate strats and it would hinder them, but its better than having gazillions of Dragon pig drops that was earn in an unfair way.

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As my colleague Moon already explained, it is being looked at and it WILL be sorted.
All we ask for is a little patience.
Dragon pig hasn't been closed because the bug has been stated and pointed out, the real (intended) strategy is still out there and working, so be creative and good luck!

~ Mek

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Ah smile i'm really glad the sadida doll thing is being sanctioned. This is fantastic news thank you for letting us know moon wink 

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I never understood why just about anything done at DP is considered a bug, when it's literally IMPOSSIBLE for players to know at first whether or not their strategy is a bug and will get them banned/items removed UNLESS the devs post it and explain it's a bug. A lot of these so-called "bug-abuse" strategies against DP are perfectly acceptable in most other MMOs. For example, in a certain other MMO I've played (In fact, a much bigger and more popular one than Wakfu), there was a strategy that people used against a then-novel boss monster that was insanely hard to kill. It'd take huge teams just to kill it. People figured out they could walk underneath the monster and not be attacked while they healed up. Rather than denouncing these players or sanctioning them, the company simply implemented a new Stomp attack that was triggered if players ran underneath him. I for one believe that's a more level-headed and fair approach than what Ankama may or may not do (sanction players). Also, it's Ankama's own fault, not the players who use them, that these strategies work. These so-called abuses work within the current mechanics of the game, despite whether or not Ankama INTENDED it, these strategies are still legitimate.

If Ankama has some obscure strategy they want, no EXPECT, players to use only, then they should at least point players in that direction rather than going Stasi on us.

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Score : 36880
elgatopucha|2013-09-14 20:28:32
I never understood why just about anything done at DP is considered a bug, when it's literally IMPOSSIBLE for players to know at first whether or not their strategy is a bug and will get them banned/items removed UNLESS the devs post it and explain it's a bug. A lot of these so-called "bug-abuse" strategies against DP are perfectly acceptable in most other MMOs. For example, in a certain other MMO I've played (In fact, a much bigger and more popular one than Wakfu), there was a strategy that people used against a then-novel boss monster that was insanely hard to kill. It'd take huge teams just to kill it. People figured out they could walk underneath the monster and not be attacked while they healed up. Rather than denouncing these players or sanctioning them, the company simply implemented a new Stomp attack that was triggered if players ran underneath him. I for one believe that's a more level-headed and fair approach than what Ankama may or may not do (sanction players). Also, it's Ankama's own fault, not the players who use them, that these strategies work. These so-called abuses work within the current mechanics of the game, despite whether or not Ankama INTENDED it, these strategies are still legitimate.

If Ankama has some obscure strategy they want, no EXPECT, players to use only, then they should at least point players in that direction rather than going Stasi on us.
There's a difference between a working strategy and using an obstacle that completely makes the boss pass his turn (which should be completely fucking obvious that you are abusing a bug btw)

Now the panda belligerence thing, that I don't entirely agree with but that's their decision.
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Well, there are commonly used tactics for BC, Magmog and Moowolf preventing them from doing any damage AT ALL, so it's not that easy to judge if a tactic is an abuse. If you look at this way nearly all the tactics are abuses. Players are not in position to state if what they do is an abuse or not and it should always be clearly pointed out by devs what is an exploit otherwise the strategy must be considered as legit.

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Score : 1588
MiniMikeh|2013-09-14 20:50:47
elgatopucha|2013-09-14 20:28:32
I never understood why just about anything done at DP is considered a bug, when it's literally IMPOSSIBLE for players to know at first whether or not their strategy is a bug and will get them banned/items removed UNLESS the devs post it and explain it's a bug. A lot of these so-called "bug-abuse" strategies against DP are perfectly acceptable in most other MMOs. For example, in a certain other MMO I've played (In fact, a much bigger and more popular one than Wakfu), there was a strategy that people used against a then-novel boss monster that was insanely hard to kill. It'd take huge teams just to kill it. People figured out they could walk underneath the monster and not be attacked while they healed up. Rather than denouncing these players or sanctioning them, the company simply implemented a new Stomp attack that was triggered if players ran underneath him. I for one believe that's a more level-headed and fair approach than what Ankama may or may not do (sanction players). Also, it's Ankama's own fault, not the players who use them, that these strategies work. These so-called abuses work within the current mechanics of the game, despite whether or not Ankama INTENDED it, these strategies are still legitimate.

If Ankama has some obscure strategy they want, no EXPECT, players to use only, then they should at least point players in that direction rather than going Stasi on us.
There's a difference between a working strategy and using an obstacle that completely makes the boss pass his turn (which should be completely fucking obvious that you are abusing a bug btw)

Now the panda belligerence thing, that I don't entirely agree with but that's their decision.

Maybe so, but it's Ankama's fault for causing his AI to not work in this situation, not the players. Players could be using seeds to block LoS attacks so he has to spam non-LoS attacks. Players using these strategies are essentially beta testing content for Ankama, for free. Instead of punishing players, they should simply implement proper fixes.

FajneCycki|2013-09-14 21:24:01
Well, there are commonly used tactics for BC, Magmog and Moowolf preventing them from doing any damage AT ALL, so it's not that easy to judge if a tactic is an abuse. If you look at this way nearly all the tactics are abuses. Players are not in position to state if what they do is an abuse or not and it should always be clearly pointed out by devs what is an exploit otherwise the strategy must be considered as legit.

This. I know all of the people complaining use these strategies for other bosses (including barrel to prevent Yech'Ti'Wawa attacking entire party). These are commonly used strategies that Ankama doesn't even bat an eye at. Don't be fucking hypocrites. Using everyone's logic in these threads, Ankama should ban everyone.
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Could someone explain me what is that " panda-belligerence" bug?

I think there should be a clearer division between what's considered a valid strategy and what's considered a bug
I think I can help here.

A valid strategy could be a team against moo:A sac in the team with range bonus and 6 mp which trans it away of its range till it runs out of wakfu and,after it,kill it.

As abuse bug,let's take sadida doll abuse,use sadida doll seeds to block a boss and instead of attack it and make a doll,it consider the seed an untargetable "wall" and since it has nowhere to move nor anyone to target it pass,completely wasting its turn.

On the bug,the boss "thinks" it can do nothing while,on the strategy, it tries to but is unable to do anything.

Was it helpful?
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Score : 36880
Maxiliano|2013-09-14 21:41:59
Could someone explain me what is that " panda-belligerence" bug?

I think there should be a clearer division between what's considered a valid strategy and what's considered a bug
I think I can help here.

A valid strategy could be a team against moo:A sac in the team with range bonus and 6 mp which trans it away of its range till it runs out of wakfu and,after it,kill it.

As abuse bug,let's take sadida doll abuse,use sadida doll seeds to block a boss and instead of attack it and make a doll,it consider the seed an untargetable "wall" and since it has nowhere to move nor anyone to target it pass,completely wasting its turn.

On the bug,the boss "thinks" it can do nothing while,on the strategy, it tries to but is unable to do anything.

Was it helpful?
You literally explained it spot on.

As far as the panda thing goes the panda picks up the person with the highest belligerence dragon pig is set to attack the highest belligerence person and that is his goal during his turn. Since the panda is picking that person up they technically are no longer in the fight since they are not targetable confusing the boss and having him hit the panda instead(?) that last part I need confirmation on.

Some say it should be left alone since your immediate reaction as a panda is to save your team mates which I agree with but grou does not think this is the case.
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Maxiliano|2013-09-14 21:41:59
Could someone explain me what is that " panda-belligerence" bug?

I think there should be a clearer division between what's considered a valid strategy and what's considered a bug
I think I can help here.

A valid strategy could be a team against moo:A sac in the team with range bonus and 6 mp which trans it away of its range till it runs out of wakfu and,after it,kill it.

As abuse bug,let's take sadida doll abuse,use sadida doll seeds to block a boss and instead of attack it and make a doll,it consider the seed an untargetable "wall" and since it has nowhere to move nor anyone to target it pass,completely wasting its turn.

On the bug,the boss "thinks" it can do nothing while,on the strategy, it tries to but is unable to do anything.

Was it helpful?
thats ankama's fault, they can close the dungeon/ub until they "fix" it and they shouldnt punish ppl for doing nothing wrong.. or summoning seeds is considered a bug/exploit? if you use something that is not supposed to happen, ok... but is ankama's fault and their lack of talent programming a decent AI... punish your coders/developers, not the player base... some ppl dont even read the forum... I really dont know why takes so long to fix these "stupid" bugs... seeds blocking? do a last check before the boss skips turn to see if there is a seed, barrel, beacon, dial, etc... and make the boss attack it... i doubt thats hard to do... maybe choosing Java as wakfu's language was a bad idea to start with? but yeah try punishing your coders, so they learn to focus on what they do a bit more, stop blaming the players for doing what they can.

Note: im against bots, hacking, exploits using bugs(seeds/dolls are not bugs), etc
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I don't post often but I feel compelled to chime in on this one smile

I agree with everything being said. Panda beligerence/sadida summon is an exploit/glitch and should be fixed obv

However, Ankama shouldnt punish the players by banning or removing items, because too many questions will arise aka how long of a ban is considered approriate or what if someone who won used mats to make an item? or what if they sell an item to another player? Too many different variables involved and the process is sure to be a complicated one. How can this be dealt with? Whoever stated they should close the dungeon ASAP again was right on the money. Players will do what they can to win and Ankama should anticipate this.. yes things can slip through the cracks from time to time. Close the dungeon/re-evaluate the fight.

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If they close the dungeon, all Ankama will do is add some unreasonable buffs to the boss (and somehow create new bugs/unintended "exploits"), which can only encourage players to "cheat." I find it laughable that Ankama dares to tell us not to use exploits or be banned, yet they never make clear what are considered exploits. Additionally, if a strategy caused the boss to literally SKIP a turn, they can at least take a few minutes to implement a hotfix that causes the boss to simply destroy all barriers. It's not hard, and players should never be punished because Ankama overlooked something.

Also, an item wipe would be bullshit because I know for a fact dragon pig resources have been bought and sold on all major servers. Any server-wide deletion of any items related to that boss will only fuck innocent players over. There's literally no way to tell how items were acquired. None.

Any action on Ankama's part other than a simple hotfix will result in an uproar that will leave to loss of revenue due to players leaving the game (and giving the game a poor reputation, decreasing the number of new players to this game significantly) while setting a dangerous precedent (Ankama has and will arbitrarily declare illegal a strategy someone used the first time and ban them). A hotfix plus no sanctions is the ONLY solution.

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I know for a fact there are dragon pig drops floating around by people who have exploited one of these exploits.

I think it should be removed, it's not different than the dupes.

Exploiting should not go unpunished.

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You're willing to surrender all of your dragon pig drops, then? Also, what about all those DP sets acquired on Aerafal due to exploits in the old DP fights? After months of those being in existence, should those suddenly be removed?

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elgatopucha|2013-09-14 23:47:23
You're willing to surrender all of your dragon pig drops, then? Also, what about all those DP sets acquired on Aerafal due to exploits in the old DP fights? After months of those being in existence, should those suddenly be removed?
If I had abused an exploit yes.

But since I didn't rolleyes.
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Score : 1588
MiniMikeh|2013-09-14 23:51:08
elgatopucha|2013-09-14 23:47:23
You're willing to surrender all of your dragon pig drops, then? Also, what about all those DP sets acquired on Aerafal due to exploits in the old DP fights? After months of those being in existence, should those suddenly be removed?
If I had abused an exploit yes.

But since I didn't rolleyes.

Sure you didn't abuse one. However, the only way to remove these drops and be sure is to literally delete them all off the server. No matter how they were acquired.
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