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P2W?

By August 15, 2013, 03:51:25
Reactions 37
Score : 4036
saphiLC|2013-08-15 23:35:20
cyndiloo|2013-08-15 22:38:12
You're complaining that you took a full pp enu to a dungeon to get gear you didn't need for pp so you could sell for profit and other people actually dropped loot instead of you and you weren't happy for them so therefore now everyone needs 6 accounts so they don't have to share drops? Your logic is batshit crazy. You get more of the loot on an enu more of the time than any other game. You don't get to group with other people in other mmo's and keep everything that drops. Greedy.
Ugh, gear i didnt need for pp? what do you mean?

Also hate how ppl in this comunity invent stuff and put it in other ppl posts to harrash them... when did i say i werent happy for them? not saying im happy doesnt mean im unhappy, infact i remember that day because we Lol'd hard about the fact the same person got the 2 kraken parts he needed in 1 fight. Anyways...that was an example of how "normal" ppl needs more time to get stuff (i only use 2 accounts btw), Maybe you got offended because you use 6 accounts? or why did you react like it was something personal against you?. So yeah, since you invented that crap about my post and said my logic is "batshit crazy" i guess the one with that kind of logic is you, since you are the one inventing things and calling the same things you invent in your mind "batshit crazy". GG

About you last thing, wich i dont fully understand... hows greedy soloing something and getting all the drops for yourself? you want me to always give away stuff from something i killed? (wich i do sometimes with random low lvl ppl or friends)

Anyways i guess you dont understand how PP works in this game, is not used just to unlock items.
I know very well how pp works in the game, it is sometimes used to unlock item if they have a pp lock and everyone has 100 hidden that doesn't calculate into drop chance increases. I also know that everyone in a dungeon has a chance to roll for an item and it's based on your individual pp. Outside of a dungeon the item is assigned to a person and they either win the roll based on their pp or not. You misunderstood when I said gear you didn't need for pp meaning gear that wasn't desirable for you pp enu and stuff you weren't going to wear, not that the gear itself had anything to do with how pp works or is calculated in game. Kraken has no pp. It's a glass canon set.

You are the one who stated you were upset you took an enu that dropped gear you didn't need and other people won it and that it was better to play more accounts b/c you get all the loot. No one is harassing you. I don't think I've ever had any dealings with you at all. I'm just saying you can easily create a group of people and play together and help each other get gear and no one has to pay to win by multiaccounting. It's nothing personal against me, I'm quite happy to help friends get loot who have one account. It does no one any good for you to give an impression to newer players that they must subscribe multiple accounts to "win" the game. Some people enjoy multiaccounting, but you also have more characters to gear when you do it.

Quit raging so much.
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Hi everyone,

I've moderated and edited a few posts in this topic in an attempt to try and make the conversation a little bit more civil. You can adamantly debate your side but please do not go out of your way to resort to ad hominem.

If the conversation gets out of hand again the topic will be locked.

Thanks for cooperating.

- Moon 

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I absolutely agree with saphi. I now have four accounts and have seen a steady increase in returns from the game the more characters I play. I'm sure if I ran 18 accounts and could have my own teams for every instance in the game I'd have an even better time gearing.

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cyndiloo|2013-08-16 02:23:32
I know very well how pp works in the game, it is sometimes used to unlock item if they have a pp lock and everyone has 100 hidden that doesn't calculate into drop chance increases. I also know that everyone in a dungeon has a chance to roll for an item and it's based on your individual pp. Outside of a dungeon the item is assigned to a person and they either win the roll based on their pp or not. You misunderstood when I said gear you didn't need for pp meaning gear that wasn't desirable for you pp enu and stuff you weren't going to wear, not that the gear itself had anything to do with how pp works or is calculated in game. Kraken has no pp. It's a glass canon set.

You are the one who stated you were upset you took an enu that dropped gear you didn't need and other people won it and that it was better to play more accounts b/c you get all the loot. No one is harassing you. I don't think I've ever had any dealings with you at all. I'm just saying you can easily create a group of people and play together and help each other get gear and no one has to pay to win by multiaccounting. It's nothing personal against me, I'm quite happy to help friends get loot who have one account. It does no one any good for you to give an impression to newer players that they must subscribe multiple accounts to "win" the game. Some people enjoy multiaccounting, but you also have more characters to gear when you do it.

Quit raging so much.
I didnt misunderstood anything, the one that dont get it is you, i use my enu to drop the gear i use on my main, using kraken on enu is silly (good damage but super weak resist/hp aka glass canon).

And you still keep typing about things i never wrote... where did i wrote i was upset? But yeah, what i said is... if you run 6 accounts you get all the drops, you have to gear 6 characters, but thats piece a cake with 6 accounts, greedy or w/e you wanna call it, but it is easier with 6 characters. Im not sure if you understand the concept of "win" in this kind of games, is as easy as "get to max lvl, get the best gear and get them as fast as you can", and in Wakfu, since most servers are empty, means you need 6 accounts(well.. more than 3, not 6) to achieve that. Ankama is the one giving that impression you talk about, gosh... i dont even support ppl using more than 2 accounts... (2 accounts so we can trade our own items... because looks like ankama wont be adding a shared chest anytime soon -.-). And if you find people to party as fast as you say, grats, but all i find is ppl doing UBs or already full or doing profesions.

And that "quit raging so much"... im not even raging? im not blind, but thats not raging

Tip, when you post a reply, try reading the column on the right of the page

Show respect for other members.Insults, provocation, flaming and any lack of respect will be sanctioned.
and stop provocating and lacking respect smile thanks

Madd1|2013-08-16 07:58:25
I absolutely agree with saphi. I now have four accounts and have seen a steady increase in returns from the game the more characters I play. I'm sure if I ran 18 accounts and could have my own teams for every instance in the game I'd have an even better time gearing.
Finally :3
Since i made my second account im able to solo polars and mechas, yay \^o^/
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I'm done speaking with you.

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I'm amazed that there is anyone who has the gall to say that Cyndiloo of all people doesn't "get it". The one person with any brains and sense at all on these forums gets told to show more respect. What nonsense.

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Server merge.

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Icekin|2013-08-16 02:14:19
Kikuihimonji|2013-08-16 00:53:12
Icekin|2013-08-15 05:48:13
The only items worth mentioning in a "p2w" topic are the makabra items.
They are all sold in game in the market for very low cost if lvl 0, at very moderate cost if max level.
They are beaten while leveling by some weapons
They are beaten at max level by many other weapons.

Their purpose is not power but convenience, since it levels up with you. You don't need one at all to compete at any level.
Makabras are convenient? First time i heard that. For me they are not convenient at all.
First i need to NOT USE other weapons that i will get because if i do, then it will not level makabra weapon. I have to forget about all the cool weapons that i could use from level 1 to 100 and just stick with this one stupid makabra. This is not even funny.
Secondly it take ages before it will level to 100 to make it worth using. From level 1 to 99 makabra weapons could be replaced with better weapons.

As for the rings you will receive 2x less exp to the ring if you will also try to level makabra weapon. This will make you level them both 2x longer. You have to use 1 at time for lvling, and that is no where close to convenience.

Also if you are leveling the ring you will be unable to use for example Gelano, if your current set that give AP require ring slot as well. This means you will have to loose 1AP in order to level your ring, till you get set with AP that doesn't require ring slot.

Seriously Makabra items are the opposite to what convenience is.

You don't need to use other weapons because your weapon levels with you. That's convenient.
If using several makabras makes things bad for you, then don't. Pick a ring or a weapon, and there you go.
If you have a Gelano, which is such an isolated and rare incident (does anyone on Nox even have one at all?), you really don't need to worry about Makas at all. You're already rich enough to afford better.
convienient would be if i could enjoy the game from lvl 1 to 100 with all it have to offer, including the dropped weapons and me, trying to get better weapon or simply swaping weapon for either leadership, AP or HP, etc. But because i am doomed to lvl 1 weapon (makabra), then all the weapons will be pointless for me to get. It also make it poitless for me to lvl any type of proffesion wich include crafting weapons as i will have no use of them but i will want that legendary weapon later, wich means i should instead focus on proffesion and use the weapons i craft - that would make me enjoy the proffesion more and will give me small goals while lvling it - it would be better weapon after several levels. But no, i have to lvl my makabra anyway because it would be "easier" and "faster" way to get the AP weapon with "guaranteed" success. It just ruin the fun in game that i had before the makabras were added. It's not convienient at all.
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Well, it could be a problem before, but right now we have so many +1ap weapons on lvls 80+ that you don't really need to use maka if you want ap weapon.
Im using maka wand because I think it's perfect for water Eni, it has everything I need (except good dmg).

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@Those people that claim you need 6 accounts to be successful. You are obviously not very good at choosing the people you play with.

In the groups I run all the loot is shared, no matter if it is worth 1 or 1 million kamas. If my guildie needs that hushed sceptre, I will give it to him.

So this is not the fault of the game, but of your lack of social skills.

Pulling out the one time where the Enu does not get the loot and the others do as an example is so biased btw it gave me an allergy I think. Selective perception ftw.

@OP: The game is not p2w anymore is what my answer would be. It used to be back when Maka weapons were the best end game weapons to aquire.

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I've found it a lot easier to do well ever since I started quad-boxing.

More toons = more drops

Four toons in a dungeon means + 4/6 chances of receiving a drop in a boss room.

But I guess that is just basic logic.

So in my opinion, in a game with already messed up drop rates, little things like multi-boxing do help.

Likewise, if you have a good guild and maybe some good friends. You could.. possibly just leech gear off them? People Plvl already. But this is also the reason why we have elitist players that only play among themselves. These elitist players further leads leads the game to have a lack of player base because other players often find themselves left out of things and unable to do anything for this mmo highly emphasizes group play. New players suffer in particular.

When GvG comes out, I wonder if people will truly dare to say that multi-boxers do not have an in game advantage. Still, I am not sure Ankama can fix this... nor if they should.. it seems that this is just the nature of the game. Personally, I blame the low player base for this problem; and ankama is at fault for that (for letting grou run wild, and not investing in customer service -i've had atleast 20 friends I've invited quit with their multiple accounts over the course of these past 3 months) It is quite frustrating to want to do things in a game and be unable to because you can not find a group.

In other mmos, I run by with my characters and there are always people LFG and making groups instantly. Meanwhile, on wakfu you can be Looking for a group for hours... because.. there are not that many people to play with. Level distinction and the lack of a low~mid level player base further contributes to this problem.

However, there is classification in this game. You can use it to your advantage too. For example, make a panda and then get some pp candy. Invest in your panda little gobbals, they are needed for almost every strategy. P2W? make a good investment and make a panda.

Making an enutroph is only worth it if you're into harvesting mats. All the good drops will probably be dropped by your group members when you run dungeons and tasks. If you don't have "good friends/guild" you probably won't be sharing much of anythings. I guess some people don't reaize that it takes a while to build those relationships and that new players will not be able to benefit from that. With an enutroph what is the difference between a 0.6% vs 0.8% drop rate. Ok, maybe its a change visible in 100,000 fights. But how isnt this current system about sheer luck?

For P2Wyou are better off investing in a panda, or a op commonly used dpt like an earth rogue or Osamoda, investing in some pp candy. Play well and you will get invited to -every thing- Not to mention that classes like those can easily switch out gear for pp gear/pp fillers in some scenarios.

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Dunno where you get the 0.6% vs 0.8% and in what context. From what I understand, boss X has a 0.1% drop rate on item Y. Enutrof gets a free 130 from actives/passives, 100 hidden, 200 from pp gear and a 70 candy. The drop rate is now 0.5% for him. If he pouches the boss, that's 1% (0.5% when he picks up pouch, 0.5% at end). That's incredibly significant. A normal character could get 200 pp from gear + 70 pp candy, for a total of 0.37%, unlike the enu however he completely sacrifices dmg to get this because of no 50% pp into dmg passive.

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Score : 244
Noobility|2013-08-17 22:30:01
Dunno where you get the 0.6% vs 0.8% and in what context. From what I understand, boss X has a 0.1% drop rate on item Y. Enutrof gets a free 130 from actives/passives, 100 hidden, 200 from pp gear and a 70 candy. The drop rate is now 0.5% for him. If he pouches the boss, that's 1% (0.5% when he picks up pouch, 0.5% at end). That's incredibly significant. A normal character could get 200 pp from gear + 70 pp candy, for a total of 0.37%, unlike the enu however he completely sacrifices dmg to get this because of no 50% pp into dmg passive.
0.2% difference in my example. 0.4% in your example.
Luck rates
, that's what I am trying to say. In my opinion, that slight change is not even significant from that of a regular class's with pp candy (at which point the hypothetical difference in drop chance between a regular class and an enutrof would be decreased).

I never mentioned pouching. Also, not even Ankama can agree on the math behind the rates so I don't even know where you get your numbers from. The system is pretty random, and Troyle posted it a few months ago. There is no equation for it, just different equations factored from people assuming things work a certain way.

Other than pouching I really don't see the difference between having an enutrof or not in your team. My groups have been dropping just as much with just pp candy. It makes even more sense for UBs since they can not be pouched. Which is why -on topic- I suggested that people make useful elite classes that have more chances to be invited, the more chances they have to run things and be used in groups so that they do not have to "P2W" to make their own teams. Which I think is the complaint on this thread. I used the enutrof as an example of false hope.

(aquabeauty here, I was subbing this account too lazy to switch happy; pew pew, hope you're not confused)
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Score : 735

Payment items you can benefit from:

  • Makabara Weopons
  • Makabara Rings
  • Restat spells/abilities

Why each do not make the game pay to win:

  • Makabara Weopons are not so great at lv 100. If you want a strong lv 100 weopon that gives +1ap, makabara weopons are usually last on your list. Makabara Weapons can also be brought in game for in game money and are very cheap.
  • 1 makabara ring reflects damage (the other ring clearly does not make the game pay to win so not worth mentioning). This ring can help in PVP but not by much. It isn't a game breaker because it is not so powerful as there are many other rings around lv 100 that are better. It can also be brought in game as well with in game money as one of the cheapest rings to buy for lv 100+.
  • You can get free restats in game already, and generally get one free once per month per update. Restating with money is usually for the lazy, but available to everyone.
This game is P2P and in my opinion the most fair online games i've seen.
This game is a play 2 win game, rather than a pay 2 win game.
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Score : 954
Merriden|2013-08-16 20:34:06
I'm amazed that there is anyone who has the gall to say that Cyndiloo of all people doesn't "get it". The one person with any brains and sense at all on these forums gets told to show more respect. What nonsense.

Totes agree^
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Score : 2848
aquabeauty|2013-08-17 21:27:29
I've found it a lot easier to do well ever since I started quad-boxing.

More toons = more drops

Four toons in a dungeon means + 4/6 chances of receiving a drop in a boss room.

But I guess that is just basic logic.

So in my opinion, in a game with already messed up drop rates, little things like multi-boxing do help.

Likewise, if you have a good guild and maybe some good friends. You could.. possibly just leech gear off them? People Plvl already. But this is also the reason why we have elitist players that only play among themselves. These elitist players further leads leads the game to have a lack of player base because other players often find themselves left out of things and unable to do anything for this mmo highly emphasizes group play. New players suffer in particular.

When GvG comes out, I wonder if people will truly dare to say that multi-boxers do not have an in game advantage. Still, I am not sure Ankama can fix this... nor if they should.. it seems that this is just the nature of the game. Personally, I blame the low player base for this problem; and ankama is at fault for that (for letting grou run wild, and not investing in customer service -i've had atleast 20 friends I've invited quit with their multiple accounts over the course of these past 3 months) It is quite frustrating to want to do things in a game and be unable to because you can not find a group.

In other mmos, I run by with my characters and there are always people LFG and making groups instantly. Meanwhile, on wakfu you can be Looking for a group for hours... because.. there are not that many people to play with. Level distinction and the lack of a low~mid level player base further contributes to this problem.

However, there is classification in this game. You can use it to your advantage too. For example, make a panda and then get some pp candy. Invest in your panda little gobbals, they are needed for almost every strategy. P2W? make a good investment and make a panda.

Making an enutroph is only worth it if you're into harvesting mats. All the good drops will probably be dropped by your group members when you run dungeons and tasks. If you don't have "good friends/guild" you probably won't be sharing much of anythings. I guess some people don't reaize that it takes a while to build those relationships and that new players will not be able to benefit from that. With an enutroph what is the difference between a 0.6% vs 0.8% drop rate. Ok, maybe its a change visible in 100,000 fights. But how isnt this current system about sheer luck?

For P2Wyou are better off investing in a panda, or a op commonly used dpt like an earth rogue or Osamoda, investing in some pp candy. Play well and you will get invited to -every thing- Not to mention that classes like those can easily switch out gear for pp gear/pp fillers in some scenarios.
Thats why i wub you smile

You are like one of the few -not blind- ppl in the whole community
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Score : 1698
CaWinKiDink|2013-08-18 01:08:03
Noobility|2013-08-17 22:30:01
Dunno where you get the 0.6% vs 0.8% and in what context. From what I understand, boss X has a 0.1% drop rate on item Y. Enutrof gets a free 130 from actives/passives, 100 hidden, 200 from pp gear and a 70 candy. The drop rate is now 0.5% for him. If he pouches the boss, that's 1% (0.5% when he picks up pouch, 0.5% at end). That's incredibly significant. A normal character could get 200 pp from gear + 70 pp candy, for a total of 0.37%, unlike the enu however he completely sacrifices dmg to get this because of no 50% pp into dmg passive.
0.2% difference in my example. 0.4% in your example.
Luck rates
, that's what I am trying to say. In my opinion, that slight change is not even significant from that of a regular class's with pp candy (at which point the hypothetical difference in drop chance between a regular class and an enutrof would be decreased).

I never mentioned pouching. Also, not even Ankama can agree on the math behind the rates so I don't even know where you get your numbers from. The system is pretty random, and Troyle posted it a few months ago. There is no equation for it, just different equations factored from people assuming things work a certain way.

Other than pouching I really don't see the difference between having an enutrof or not in your team. My groups have been dropping just as much with just pp candy. It makes even more sense for UBs since they can not be pouched. Which is why -on topic- I suggested that people make useful elite classes that have more chances to be invited, the more chances they have to run things and be used in groups so that they do not have to "P2W" to make their own teams. Which I think is the complaint on this thread. I used the enutrof as an example of false hope.

(aquabeauty here, I was subbing this account too lazy to switch happy; pew pew, hope you're not confused)
For sure in a UB situation, enus advantage goes a lot down. No pouch, no pp gear, his only edge is 30 + 100 more pp if can boost it. For the rest of the content it depends on how you wanna see it. In my example you could say enu still has 99% chance to not get the item. But you could also say that he has 3x more chances to drop it than the other guy. On a large sample size or on items with a slightly higher drop rate, that 3x is felt and makes a huge difference. Farm any dungeon that has OK drop rates (eg. 0.5%+) with multiple valuable items that can drop, and your enu is going to better a bucketload more drops than another char in pp gear.
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Score : 36880
Shaleigh1|2013-08-17 10:43:02
@Those people that claim you need 6 accounts to be successful. You are obviously not very good at choosing the people you play with.

In the groups I run all the loot is shared, no matter if it is worth 1 or 1 million kamas. If my guildie needs that hushed sceptre, I will give it to him.

So this is not the fault of the game, but of your lack of social skills.

Pulling out the one time where the Enu does not get the loot and the others do as an example is so biased btw it gave me an allergy I think. Selective perception ftw.

@OP: The game is not p2w anymore is what my answer would be. It used to be back when Maka weapons were the best end game weapons to aquire.
For once I actually agree with you. The guy crying about his enu not getting the loot needs to stop being so selfish in a group based game...
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