Pandawa feels clunky and underperforming

I don't have plenty of EXP on Pandawas yet, but I prefer them for the defensive gameplay.

The armor generated with the WP spell can be far better than the one from Six Roses if you have a good HP pool, thus being a good alternative for those turns you can't have the Dizzy charge ready (Dizzy 15 gives a very decent armor and restores that extra WP, but the rest relies too much on equipment). And being a living tower for your allies has no price.

About damage, it might get some love, yeah, but it works decently as area bombing too. Flaming Burp is kinda "weak" for the amount of resistance it takes away (it takes time to stack the Dizzy, and even when maxed the debuff is not such a big deal). Some of the passives for maxing damage basically require being using the barrel, thus getting "stuck" with Earth spells.

The healing... I don't know if it's worth it to go as healer. The best healing spell is single-target and suffers the same "needs maxed Dizzy" problem for being good, because it's limited to once per turn. The other ones are in area, and very much need some incentive for being reliable. The passives for healing are not a big deal either. I need checking this more in-depth to get a good idea.

Thanks for the answer! Yeah, I do use the Bamboozle actively and I also prefer my Panda in it's tankish version. But today I had this moment where I started thinking about the comparision of Pandawa and Sacrier and I cannot get rid of this feeling that we lose this fight completely.

I'm a long time max leveled Pandawa and my feeling are partially the same.
I think Pandawa don't need a full revamp, onlly some tweaks to make him comparable with other classes. I think he should perform good in two roles at the same time with an aditional option to positioner if needed. Most classes have two really good roles they can perform at the same time, so why is Pandawa that limited? The basic idea behind Pandawa and a lot of mechanics are awesome, but some things need the improvements.
My suggested improvements (pve centered):
-Six Roses is a strong spell and the Armor is really good at higher levels reaching like 35%-40% of your max HP per turn, if you fully concentrate on generating armor, but Six roses should be improved to be not a that weak, if you don't use alll stacks for it. So I would give him a basic armor generation + additional armor per consumed dizzy, which should end in the same armor as before at max dizzy, but with more options to work other things with your dizzy too, if you don't want to cosume that much stacks.
Rework Light my Fire to be something else. I don't know what at the moment, but this spell isn't useful.
-Lactid Acid was nerfed at the willpower change with nearly nobody noticing it, so I think it could get 6AP baseaoe-damage instead of 4 baseaoe-damage if you throw a target with it. Like explosive flask.
-Some waterspells should be castable on themself while holding the barrel instead of non-castable. For example the waterspell with the heal-glyph should apply a transportable glyph around the pandawa for one turn or make milk fountain castable one themself to apply dizzy and hurt enemies.
-Milk Fountain: This spell is nearly identical with Sacriers Insanity, besides it cost 1MP and 1AP more, but does only one AP more damage and has the same AOE only while casting on the barrel+pull effect. So to make it fair, reduce cost from 5AP1MP to 5AP. (Sidenote: Pandawa and revamped Sacrier have now nearly the same roles, but Pandawa get nearly 100% outperformed by Sacris).
One waterspell should have a direct healing. And milk wave don't count, because Pandawas need a lot of WP to be underperforming at their roles in comparison to other classes. For example the 3 AP water spell could get it.
-Reduce -Res, -finaldamage and -finalhealing on passives. Seriously, not many classes have so many disadvantages on passives like Pandawa. A lot of classes have nearly same or better passives with the same function, but if you see Pandawa they all get debuffed for taking their needed passives for their roles.
So I would change: 1.)Poisoned Chalice don't reduce Res anymore, but reduce final healing 20%, damage dealt from 15% to 10%. Damage centered passive. Res is extremly valuable for pandawas so this would be an improvement.
2.)Cocktail: Same as before, but no -Damage%. It is fair. Look before on Ecaflips Trance, if you don't think so, this is a logical passive for an off-healer without the -damage.
3.)Pandemic: Reduce the -damage from -10% damage to -5% damage.

OK, this is most I thought about. This wouldn't make this class op. The class would be still weaker than all specialized classes and partially than most allrounders, but could find more places in variable team comps. I would have more ideas for improvements, but thatt are the most logical and needed for me, while maintaining all I love of Pandawa.

Thank you for reading.
 

men.... panda at high lvl is OP, one of the strongest.... lvl 200 pandawas are unstopable...

Pandas certainly aren't "unstopable," but they are one of the more useful, fair classes at end game. I like some of these ideas, but I'd also have some other ideas:

• First and foremost, change the WP-regen mechanic.
  • Currently, the built-in WP regeneration is +1wp when returning to the Sober state, meaning a max of 1wp every 3 turns. This can be increased to 2 every 3 turns with a passive. This is insufficient.
  • Pandas, for a short, glorious moment, had +1wp for each turn spent sober. I'd like to see that come back — after all, they're relinquishing the ability to use Merry and Worn-Out, their two powerful states.
  • Additionally, Pandas have the +1WP when consuming 15 stacks of dizzy. This is fine, but it could use a tweak: make it so that it requires 15 stacks total, not 15 stacks at once. By this I mean something more like Cras' "sharpening" state, enis' "grace" state, etc. If you consume 5 levels of dizzy, you get 5 levels of "intoxicated"; when "intoxicated" reaches 15, you get a WP.
• As mentioned, Light My Fire is weak and generally not useful. Replace it with something else.
• Milk Fountain is a useful spell, but I'd definitely like the MP cost removed OR the damage increased. It's not strong enough for the cost.
• Spells that don't consume dizzy should always add it. This means Milk Wave on enemies should add 7 levels of dizzy, and Bubble Trouble should add 3.
• We could really use some other ways to apply dizzy on allies. Right now, there are only 2 non-damaging ways: using Milk Fountain on them, and the passive barrel effect from Milky Instinct. It's like Ankama wanted to tease us with an impressive healing nuke, and then make using it really really tough.
• A few non-essential suggestions that are nevertheless fun:
  • Make Cocktail add another effect to Flaming Burp: consume dizzy on allies and add 7 resist per level (the opposite of what it does to enemies).
  • Significantly increase base damage of thrown Lactic Acid.
  • Change Milking It to trigger a similar-sized (2-circle) explosion around the barrel for 1 ap worth of damage (22-23 at level 200). This might make it necessary to remove the base damage increase on the spell itself when the barrel is in the AoE.
  • Make consuming dizzy with the Poisoned Chalice passive active inflict the Poisoned Chalice damage immediately.
  • Perhaps replace Light My Fire with an AoE fire spell with WP cost. Fire doesn't have a WP spell, and it could be fun to add one. This would be especially useful if the WP recovery mechanisms were easier to use, as mentioned above.
  • Change consuming dizzy from "heals 5% max hp when consuming 15 levels" to "heals 1% max hp per 3 levels"

Been playing aoe DD panda for a while now, never once did i felt that my panda get out dmg by my masquaraider. Maybe u could try it too

So revamp of several lack luster spells (Especially to the universally disliked Light my fire) and some touch ups to other spells here and there? 

Excellent posts by Strawberrybug and Enceladon.

I love Panda to death, but agree that they are lacklaster feeling in a lot of ways. I agree with the partial rework of some abilities to spruce them up, aggreeing with all points from the above users.

Hopefully we get it!

I'm from Elbor. I play Pandawa as a Healer. Very Rare to see and sometimes a waste, but I like it, Why? Because it's difficult, it's a handicap. Pandawa could be one of the most difficult classes in the game, he's difficult to do whatever he wants, the only thing you're confident you could do better than others is "to position". Pandawa is one (if not the best) class to position, and he does it easier than other classes with low costs.

That's why Pandawas are "positioners" better than DD, Tanks, Healers, etc. He's useful cause he can position better than most classes. But the fact is that positioning isn't the only one thing a Class should do great.

I like these "suggestions", but I don't agree with some, specially on the water branch.

Well We begin with what's the problem with Healer Pandawa. The trouble isn't that Pandawa's heals less than other classes, not it isn't, Tsunami + 15 stacks of dizzy is the best healing spell this game has, also it's because other spell that heals and cost 6 PA and 1 PW doesn't exist. 

Pandawas Healers has 5 ways to heal allies, and 2 to heal himself.

1. They heal by using Karchamrak + Milky Breath. This heal costs 4 PA, heals better than even other spells that costs the same, but you have to be melé to the ally to heal. This is a disadvantage cause most healers can heal in distance, but with this you have to be near to the danger, also the range is less when you use this than when you use Karchamrak alone. Just why?

2. Splash of Milk, this is one of the 2 ways to heal yourself, it heals ENEMIES too, it's a zone it's a glyph and you have to wait to the next turn to activate it. So Pandawas cannot heal themselves inmediatly to recover. The heal is good even with the cost, also stabilizes the Barrel, pretty good. But it heals enemies.... what? you have to control everything until you return to your next turn??

3. Bubble Trouble + Cocktail. For me it's good, it doesn't heal the pandawa, it should be the best spell to do it, but ok ^^

4. Tsunami + Dizzy, as I wrote, Tsunami is the best healing spell in the game in terms of quantity but I'm not saying it in terms of costs. I actually don't care about costs. But I think this spells is just for combine Flaming Burp + 15 stacks of Dizzy and then Tsunami or 15 stacks of Dizzy + Tsunami to heal an ally a great amount. For the cost of this spell it should be more useful when we use it in the tonel for the allies.

5. Bamboozle. With this you heal in health % for 3 turns. Good for healing the tank and do others things in the turn. I like it.

6. The second way to heal the pandawa is by your passives Master of Merriment and Bottomless Barrel (but it isn't viable if you want to heal allies, cause you will carry your Barrel and loose the Glyph of Splash of Milk)

Then what would I change?

Enceladon|2017-12-16 20:30:00

I'm a long time max leveled Pandawa and my feeling are partially the same.
I think Pandawa don't need a full revamp, onlly some tweaks to make him comparable with other classes. I think he should perform good in two roles at the same time with an aditional option to positioner if needed. Most classes have two really good roles they can perform at the same time, so why is Pandawa that limited? The basic idea behind Pandawa and a lot of mechanics are awesome, but some things need the improvements.
My suggested improvements (pve centered):
-Six Roses is a strong spell and the Armor is really good at higher levels reaching like 35%-40% of your max HP per turn, if you fully concentrate on generating armor, but Six roses should be improved to be not a that weak, if you don't use alll stacks for it. So I would give him a basic armor generation + additional armor per consumed dizzy, which should end in the same armor as before at max dizzy, but with more options to work other things with your dizzy too, if you don't want to cosume that much stacks.
Rework Light my Fire to be something else. I don't know what at the moment, but this spell isn't useful.
-Lactid Acid was nerfed at the willpower change with nearly nobody noticing it, so I think it could get 6AP baseaoe-damage instead of 4 baseaoe-damage if you throw a target with it. Like explosive flask.
-Some waterspells should be castable on themself while holding the barrel instead of non-castable. For example the waterspell with the heal-glyph should apply a transportable glyph around the pandawa for one turn or make milk fountain castable one themself to apply dizzy and hurt enemies.
-Milk Fountain: This spell is nearly identical with Sacriers Insanity, besides it cost 1MP and 1AP more, but does only one AP more damage and has the same AOE only while casting on the barrel+pull effect. So to make it fair, reduce cost from 5AP1MP to 5AP. (Sidenote: Pandawa and revamped Sacrier have now nearly the same roles, but Pandawa get nearly 100% outperformed by Sacris).
One waterspell should have a direct healing. And milk wave don't count, because Pandawas need a lot of WP to be underperforming at their roles in comparison to other classes. For example the 3 AP water spell could get it.
-Reduce -Res, -finaldamage and -finalhealing on passives. Seriously, not many classes have so many disadvantages on passives like Pandawa. A lot of classes have nearly same or better passives with the same function, but if you see Pandawa they all get debuffed for taking their needed passives for their roles.
So I would change: 1.)Poisoned Chalice don't reduce Res anymore, but reduce final healing 20%, damage dealt from 15% to 10%. Damage centered passive. Res is extremly valuable for pandawas so this would be an improvement.
2.)Cocktail: Same as before, but no -Damage%. It is fair. Look before on Ecaflips Trance, if you don't think so, this is a logical passive for an off-healer without the -damage.
3.)Pandemic: Reduce the -damage from -10% damage to -5% damage.

OK, this is most I thought about. This wouldn't make this class op. The class would be still weaker than all specialized classes and partially than most allrounders, but could find more places in variable team comps. I would have more ideas for improvements, but thatt are the most logical and needed for me, while maintaining all I love of Pandawa.

Thank you for reading.