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New Changes Coming (updated)

By Jabin - MEMBER - February 20, 2012, 19:16:14
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Score : 842

Ok according to the wiki when it was the old way where it acutally needed > 80 angrr to cast it was 129 non crit.

I assume it stayed close to that or went down when they switched it to only needing 25 angrr to cast. Probably not as big of a nerf as i thought at first.

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Score : 4296

Smasher is currently 120 at level 100, and 240 on a crit. So it's a bit of a nerf, but not an undeserved one.

As for air..

Air Branch
  • RejectTattoo : -2 -> -35 (critical: -3 -> -52)
  • Scaier's Fist : -4 -> 42 (critical: -6.8 -> -71.4)
  • Assault : -3 -> -37 (critical: -4.5 -> -55)
  • Motion sickness : range reduced to 1-5. damage reduced to -3 -> -20 (Critical: -5 -> -34). Motion sickness remains active until the beginning of the next round of sacrier. The state now has a sickness level 30 instead of 20.
  • Light Speed: -8 -> -100 (critical: -16 -> -200)

I don't know why they mentioned Rejectattoo and Assault in there; those damage values are the same as they are now. However Light Speed is definitely getting a small boost from 6-90 to 8-100. Nice I guess.

Sacrier's Fist is what stands out the most, though. It's currently at 2-22 damage, so there's no way they're increasing it to 4-42 without also increasing the AP cost. I'm guessing they're going to make it 4AP? I really hope this is a mistake, as it's most useful at 2AP. 4AP makes it really awkward.

I also don't get how Motion Sickness' damage is reduced from 3-19 to 3-20. That's actually an increase. And it can already be triggered by other players besides the Sacrier; the change here is that it no longer lasts indefinitely. It must be triggered before the start of your next turn or it goes away. Thus, you can no longer toss Motion Sickness in with your last AP and hope to trigger it yourself on your next turn. Too bad; there goes even more strategy.

I'm fairly happy about the earth and fire changes, though.

It feels as though Blood Pact is getting nerfed in the wrong way. I'd rather that they lower the base percentage from 20% to maybe 12% or 15%, and keep the larger bonus for allies. This helps to keep it unique when compared to what the Iops get, and keeps the emphasis on group play (this coming from someone who spends most of his time soloing).
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Score : 1320

Can't wait to play Earth Sac in release especially with the extra "shields" from rocky tattoo. Damage nerf sucks but its not that bad. I'll take it for increased survivability.

Blood Pact - Probably was a bit OP and I still think you're going to have a large amount of life. Especially with the rocky tattoo change it would of been really OP.

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Score : 153

The more I look at Sacrier the more I think that Rocky Skin should be able to give all Sac's, regardless of focus (fire, air, earth) the bonus, not just earth. This way.. if they want to make the central focus on them to be HP heavy meatbags that soak up hits... they can do so while :

A. Essentially being a reckless fighter, aka berserker (fire)
B. Controlling the placement of enemies on the battlefield (air)
C. Pure Tank (earth)

They need to just expand this class to be "the tank" and just allow us to decide in which format we'd like to do it in. Otherwise they need to give us more passives with damage rather than defenses and lock.

I wonder if I'm saying this for everyone but Moribund and Clinging imo are just too shoddy to really invest into. At best it's mainly for Fire and even then... it's when they are about dead or on their last turn as"dead".

In summary, investing 40 levels into passive skills for the 1-2 turns you might use it is simply.....

LAME

I look at other classes like Feca, Iop, Ecaflip, Sadida, shoot you name it... they seem to have passives that have them effective in every path they choose. Might help some paths more than others but not as skewered as they are on Sacrier. I'm sure they'll tune it up in time but with the current ideas they seem to be going with I'd love to have us be able to mitigate damage in all forms WITHOUT the use of the Dermarok skill. Should be like maybe +1-2 more a turn for what earth sac's get now (on top of proposed change to Rocky Skin) and give the other specs maybe 1-3 dermarok tops a round. Maybe have the last attacks in the other trees like lightspeed give 2-3 in itself as well. Maybe 4? It does cost WP after all AND require us to be fairly injured.

Anyways... this way Earth can get about 6-10 Dermarok a turn based on AP and even more if they use the Dermarok skill. Giving the other trees half of that, if not 1/3 wouldn't be bad would it? Especially if they don't want to give Sacrier damage buffs? *cries*

Just some ideas I've been flinging around in my noggin tongue
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Score : 1320

Doing that would completely negate the point of fire doing damage to it self. Rocky Skin will give more buffs then half the earth moves. If it was on fire and air to no one would go earth. Most of the Sac specialties are pretty solid aside from Clinging to Life and Moribund. They all have there uses outside those two.

If you want to use dermarock with fire then you'll need to invest in the specialty they give you that route. Its going to cost you wakfu to do superior damage without the reflection.

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Score : 153

Doesn't mean fire can't have a "chance" of not damaging itself or having an attack or two where they get absorb instead. The main meaty attacks should indeed hurt themselves, won't dispute that. That's basically the mechanics of how they primarily work, high damage yields come with a penalty.

Just giving a thought out idea to how they are trying to see Sacrier as... Air could certainly still use some boosts. If they gave it a little bit of damage absorb rather than dealing more damage I'd be on board with that. Who couldn't agree there?

Earth needs more absorb in general, especially when you see how other classes will be dealing much better damage compared to the hits you would take in PvP while as earth your damage dealing potential is horrid.

An earth Sacrier at this current state may be able to hinder people in PvP (or any type of Sacrier for that matter) but never beat anyone 1v1. I feel like there should be some sort of rock, paper, scissors mentality going on in this game (which I generally see how some classes counter others) but Sacrier is more like... atm... something completely different which is killable by all. Something like a tofu perhaps : p

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Score : 1320

Earth is going to do well 1v1. You get a shield every turn and your damage gets stronger if you do get hurt giving you stronger shields. On top of this there is plenty of earth armor in this game that gives earth damage, HP, and tons of resist. I think the class will be a bit tougher to take down.

As for fire absorb you can do this with the dermarock specialty. I'm pretty sure that's why the added it since most Earth sacs wont waste the time getting it or using it.

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Score : 153

You don't get stronger shields having less HP, I wish that was the case. Currently it would be 20% damage with Angrrrr and a bit more with Moribund but.... we already covered how exceptional that skill is. Nothing to do with extra absorb.

From my experience, which is limited, (was level 22 personally but saw some 40-50's duke it out a couple of times) 1v1 the absorb you get doesn't even compare to the damage loss you have for going earth + the damage other classes will deal to you per turn. Match this with the fact that smasher will be dealing less damage if this change hits through and a few of the other attacks and *insert sad face*

HP absorb needs to scale better or else they will be handy in PvE but nothing else.

This aside, we should be looking at the sacrier class overall still if talking about how they function and how they fair. Didn't mean to derail the post I made earlier and go into a earth sacrier shin-dig.

So back to point... I wish they made ALL of the branches tank-viable but in different formats. Look at my previous post for my running ideas.

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Score : 3272

Enjoy your nerf Sacriers, I'll be busy raping everyone as a Feca.

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Score : 153

Don't think you'll be "busy" if you kill us in two rounds from what I've seen Mauzy lol.

More like... you'll have run into a "snag" as a Feca for 1v1 combat. May as well have a sandwich in one hand as you press the 2-3 buttons you need on the other. Don't need to move or anything laugh 

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Score : 1320
Mordeeb|2012-02-22 01:53:12
You don't get stronger shields having less HP, I wish that was the case. Currently it would be 20% damage with Angrrrr and a bit more with Moribund but.... we already covered how exceptional that skill is. Nothing to do with extra absorb.

From my experience, which is limited, (was level 22 personally but saw some 40-50's duke it out a couple of times) 1v1 the absorb you get doesn't even compare to the damage loss you have for going earth + the damage other classes will deal to you per turn. Match this with the fact that smasher will be dealing less damage if this change hits through and a few of the other attacks and *insert sad face*

HP absorb needs to scale better or else they will be handy in PvE but nothing else.

This aside, we should be looking at the sacrier class overall still if talking about how they function and how they fair. Didn't mean to derail the post I made earlier and go into a earth sacrier shin-dig.

So back to point... I wish they made ALL of the branches tank-viable but in different formats. Look at my previous post for my running ideas.
Reason I said higher shields was because of Smasher since you need to be at lower life to use it and it will give you a much stronger shield for the AP cost.

Anyways you're not factoring in the fact that the more HP we do have all around the stronger the shield is and that earth damage and resist are going to play a giant part in the fight. If you're resist are high you're not going to take much of anything for damage through a shield as well.

Couple that with blood pact and our lock. Now that lock is changed, lock from rocky tattoo and multi arm will keep an enemy pretty locked down. Earth Sac will shine in group pvp more for the fact you can run in and keep people locked down for the most part. I'd make use of motion sickness as well for this. Someone gets away? Can always use transposition later on if you get it or attraction.

Fire really shouldn't be a tank considering your doing damage to yourself. You're trying to make your self a DPS and Tank while taking damage from you and others. Not a good idea.

Air isn't much of a tank either in the fact that you're more about moving people out of harms way and dealing some damage while doing it. Granted you can tank better with this using resist and blood pact but its never had any "tank" like abilities.

I get what you're saying but it be hard to do. Fire can't really be a tank if its going to do mad damage. Can't have your cake and eat it too.

We'll probably stay up longer then any class if you gear yourself right. Couple that with ok damage from gear and lock and it wont be all that bad.

I have a feeling fire and air will be going through more iterations in the future till they get it exactly where they want it. Where ever that may be. I don't think we'll see as many changes to Earth.

You're only looking at the class in terms of damage. To fully play the class you need to make use of some of the amazing specialty skills they give us and not just the passive ones. Sacrifice, Transposition, Attraction. You keep others out of harms way lock them down deal some damage and try to reduce the damage you take in the meantime.

Tank may be a bad word for this game. You're more of a Protector, keeping people out of harms way as best as you can while mitigating damage as best as you can and dealing some average damage.
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Score : 1080
Mauzy|2012-02-22 02:24:28
Enjoy your nerf Sacriers, I'll be busy raping everyone as a Feca.

Nerf? What nerf?
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Score : 153

I get what you are saying Zayri

I just feel that if the direction they want for Sacrier is to take hits (be more of a tank) then it should be more well spread out into all the branches.

For example these classes share universal branch synergy :

Cra = all have range and beacon use
Feca = all use glyphs + armor buffs
Iop = all about the offense
Sadida = all about supporting the pets or utilizing totem
Ecaflip = all about weighing different levels of risk
Xelor = all about AP or initiative (status effects)
Sram = all about hitting the rear

These are just the examples I can tell from messing around with them in beta. I am not sure if all the classes synergize like this but I do know Sacrier does not. They still have an identity crisis and they need to have a UNIVERSAL role in all branches.

I'm not trying to look at the class in terms of damage I just want them to have a calling. If we can assume that we are supposed to be shields for the team (or at the very least lockers) we should have attacks in each branch that remove dodge from an enemy or increase our lock. Increase our damage absorb or increase our resists. The branches can all go at it from a different angle. Fire doesn't honestly seem to have any place for a Sacrier... better to go an Iop for what that calls for. Why would the same class be able to be a tank or go full offense? This makes our selectable passive skills skewered to be favoring one way or the other. If they all complimented each other we would have much more viable passives for ALL of the branches to use as the other classes do. Not all skills are viable to be used for the branches to fit into their current strategy (especially not fire unless you want to die faster?). Just my two cents on it.

I have no doubt we will see more revisions for this class in the time to come. On the bright side, least I know there is another person out there who will be sticking with it and being passionate about them all the while with me.

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Score : 1320

Ya Fire is somewhat out of place now I agree. Air probably isn't exactly where it should be but its still a bit better off then Fire.

I feel like Air makes great utility right now but doesn't stand well on its own. Fire is just not tanky at all. I mean they are buffing cage and that does give awkward but the rest are all just about damage for the most part. Burning blood, Blood Rush, Punishment are simply damage moves and Bloodthristy Fury just buffs your damage for a bit.

I do hope they make fire more suited for the class but I think I'll be going Earth for now I like the whole shield system.

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Score : 1339
Mauzy|2012-02-22 02:24:28
Enjoy your nerf Sacriers, I'll be busy raping everyone as a Feca.

As if Feca is perfectly balanced. Delusions of grandeur.
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Score : 701

I think they should do what they did with Earth skills giving demerok and make a new one for Fire based skills as well as air for example earth gives Demerok which gives HP shield(Tanking),Fire gives (Just gonna use Vigor on this or what ever you want to call it) Which will give increased damage as you get self damage from fire spells and Air would give(Just gonna use motion sickness for the name here) Which increases thee damage and or max cells in which it will take damage as you continuously force the enemy to move.

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Score : 1320
DarkHunter57|2012-02-22 14:23:56
I think they should do what they did with Earth skills giving demerok and make a new one for Fire based skills as well as air for example earth gives Demerok which gives HP shield(Tanking),Fire gives (Just gonna use Vigor on this or what ever you want to call it) Which will give increased damage as you get self damage from fire spells and Air would give(Just gonna use motion sickness for the name here) Which increases thee damage and or max cells in which it will take damage as you continuously force the enemy to move.
Fire already does this its called Angerr. Right now Angerr has a passive hidden buff that makes your damage go up the weaker you get. You also get multi arm if you spec into it.

I don't think Air needs some special ability I just think the tree needs tweaked in damage and AP cost somewhat so it makes more sense and is more useable while moving around on the battlefield.
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Score : 48
DarkHunter57|2012-02-22 14:23:56
I think they should do what they did with Earth skills giving demerok and make a new one for Fire based skills as well as air for example earth gives Demerok which gives HP shield(Tanking),Fire gives (Just gonna use Vigor on this or what ever you want to call it) Which will give increased damage as you get self damage from fire spells and Air would give(Just gonna use motion sickness for the name here) Which increases thee damage and or max cells in which it will take damage as you continuously force the enemy to move.


I agree with the premise of giving each tree their own effective "buff" or "debuff." Assuming that the angrrr mechanism works out well, this does help out for the fire suggestion (however, angrrr doesn't strictly have an affect on fire, it effects all tree's damages, but it does let you build it quicker).

I do like the idea of motion sickness being a debuff activated by using a movement attack on the enemy. and instead of a Motion Sickness ability, perhaps an Ability that applies a chanse of stealing 1 MP from the target being moved.

At the very least, yes, air does need a cost reduction or a damage boost or a range increase with passive, or something. It's kind of "ehh" at the closing of beta.
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Score : 1080

Angrrr is pretty buffed now imo. Between the hidden buff that makes you do more dmg as you get hurt and the fact it doesn't go down between rounds it makes Fire Sac's a very deadly force to be reckoned with. If you attack when your HP is under 20% you start hitting for 100%+ dmg. At least this is what I noticed in the last week of beta since the change.

If you went full dmg stat you could be hitting for just absolutely ridiculous amounts of dmg when your HP is low. The only real issue I see how are you going to survive an attack from a PVP enemy when your HP is low? If I have 100hp left but my Punishment hits for 400dmg it doesn't matter if the enemy can do 101dmg to me before I can kill him.

Guess that's why I'm going earth sac. It's not about negating all the dmg your opponent does, but about negating some of it. Over time it adds up to a lot of dmg negated. I'm going Full HP Earth Sac with high lock for pvp. If i'm taking hits then my DPS can be doing dmg without worrying about dying quickly. That I feel is the role for an earth sac. For a Fire sac i'd say it's about hoping the opponent thinks your unable to do a lot of dmg then blasting them with Punishement when your life is low and they aren't focused on you.

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Score : 1320
LostTranquility|2012-02-22 21:59:21
Angrrr is pretty buffed now imo. Between the hidden buff that makes you do more dmg as you get hurt and the fact it doesn't go down between rounds it makes Fire Sac's a very deadly force to be reckoned with. If you attack when your HP is under 20% you start hitting for 100%+ dmg. At least this is what I noticed in the last week of beta since the change.

If you went full dmg stat you could be hitting for just absolutely ridiculous amounts of dmg when your HP is low. The only real issue I see how are you going to survive an attack from a PVP enemy when your HP is low? If I have 100hp left but my Punishment hits for 400dmg it doesn't matter if the enemy can do 101dmg to me before I can kill him.

Guess that's why I'm going earth sac. It's not about negating all the dmg your opponent does, but about negating some of it. Over time it adds up to a lot of dmg negated. I'm going Full HP Earth Sac with high lock for pvp. If i'm taking hits then my DPS can be doing dmg without worrying about dying quickly. That I feel is the role for an earth sac. For a Fire sac i'd say it's about hoping the opponent thinks your unable to do a lot of dmg then blasting them with Punishement when your life is low and they aren't focused on you.
Hopefully we'll be able to shield our team as well as a Feca can with there new system. Even thought I'm sure thats going to get changed again quite a bit.
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