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An essay from Xelor on the topic of revamp.

By 9Nectum9#1864 - MEMBER - November 25, 2021, 23:29:26

Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.”
–George Santayana, The Life of Reason, 1905  

If no conclusions are drawn from past mistakes, these mistakes may be made again in the future. It's been almost a year since Xelor revamp. Like many of my friends, I went through a storm of emotions. From mild irritation to deep disappointment. The fact is that even when playing a game, a person wants to identify himself with a character, especially if we are talking about RPG games. In RPG this effect is especially strong, given the character customization and the length of time spent on the game. Therefore, any significant change can bring strong emotions. I am Member since 2015-03-03 And spent 9 months of real time in the game


 
I say about this, that I'm not just a random player, I have experience in PvE and PvP content (but more of course PvP) and for all the time I found at least three game designers and saw their attitude towards Xelor.
The purpose of this post is not to spread hatred or persecute Siu. He has already made most of the positive changes requested by the Xelor community. The purpose of this post is to highlight the disadvantages and advantages  Xelor revamp.This analysis does not make any personal claims.
I want to share my analysis, which does not pretend to cover all aspects or satisfy everyone with arguments, but at least after talking with other Xelor from the Spanish language and French language communities, we have got some mass of general impressions. Sorry for such a long introduction, lets go!
What does revamp mean?
Revamp - process from changing or organizing something again in order to improve it.So we can compare to understand what  has been improved and what has not. Comparison is cognitive operation underlying judgments about the similarity or difference of objects.(further on the text there will be two abbreviations BR before revamp, AR - after revamp).

Support BR
  •  Xelor can remove 40 water resist at level 200.

Spoiler (click here to show spoiler)

  • Xelor could accelerate allies (relative to the flow of time, allies got to do more actions) on Tick through the use Frostbite and Sandglass (in the best scenario you could give 3 AP to three  allies in one turn).

Spoiler (click here to show spoiler)

  • and +2 AP buff for everyone on the dial cell

Spoiler (click here to show spoiler)

so total you could give 15 AP (5 AP to three allies) this turn. The method of providing AP is easy because the allies did not need to be anywhere except in your range and sometimes-on dial cell. Considering that Xelor class is distance class he always had range. Given a supportive (harmonious, I will explain below) identity, you only needed to make sure there were enough action points in reserve to implement this buffing AP combo.
  • Xelor could simultaneously(!) remove AP and give it to an ally

Spoiler (click here to show spoiler)

  • Xelor could revive

Spoiler (click here to show spoiler)

 
Xelor BR(before revamp) had a high level of support due to the ease of providing AP and revive tool.

Support AR
  • You can no longer grant 5 AP for one ally (!) (4 AP max)
  • You cannot provide AP on the current turn without using devotion
  • Devotion does not interact with dial and is only used for one ally or for you

Spoiler (click here to show spoiler)

 
  • To grant 2 AP to four allies they must be close, but you must be at least 4 cell away from them.

Spoiler (click here to show spoiler)

To grant these 2 AP your willpower must be low or the willpower of allies very high. I'm sure there are much fewer players in the game who invest resources to willpower so you must take passive which will poison the allies.

Spoiler (click here to show spoiler)

 

In the best scenario 4 allies will receive 3 AP each from sinistro+desynchronization spell on next turn (!!!!)
And fifth of team member will receive 4 AP from sinistro + devotion if you haven’t used devotion on yourself in the past turn. But in many dungeons mobs or boss can push you or have aoe hits, or you cannot be close which makes the “best scenario” unattainable. Sinistro can die faster than allies get AP buff from it. 
for the best scenario, Xelor should be like the last one and all allies should be like this...

Spoiler (click here to show spoiler)

 
  • Xelor can give little armor (6% of max HP) literally sacrificing one single tool in order to me more tenacious.

Spoiler (click here to show spoiler)

 
Xelor AR (after revamp) low support because millions of conditions prevent you from effectively buffing AP. You cannot revive and remove water res.

Ecaflip, Elio, Rogue, Masq, Fogger, Feca can play as a damage delay  but at the same time have more tools for supporting than Xelor after revamp. The spoiler analysis by Thothus#6662

Spoiler (click here to show spoiler)

Foggernaut
  • Support
  1. Gives lock/dodge/range,
  2. negates damage on allies with blockade,
  3. reduce MP consumption throughout the map with rails,
  4. stabilise
  • Debuff
  1. reduce block,
  2. reduce crit,
  3. reduce % DI,
  4. reduce WP (kinda useless)
  5. reduces range
  6. apply incurable
  7. remove MP
  8. stabilise
  • Positioning
  1. 2 cells linear push / pull

Masqueraider
  • Support
  1. Heals
  2. Gives %DI
  3. Gives MP
  4. Gives lock
  5. Gives dodge
  6. Gives resistance
  7. Gives range
  8. Gives crit  %
  9. Gives crit damage and heals
  10. Applying flaming
  11. Revive allies
  12. Stabilise
  • Debuff
  1. Incurable
  2. Crumbly
  3. Scalded
  4. Exposing back
  5. WP removal (kinda useless)
  6. reduces resistance
  7. Stabilises
  8. removes MP
  • Positioning
  1. Free swapping with allies within 5 cells, linear push from 1-7 cells, pulls up to 3 cells

Feca
  • Support
  1. Reverse AP removals
  2. Gives resistance
  3. stabilises
  4. gives crit % and block %
  5. gives WP(!!)
  6. gives lock /dodge
  7. gives invincibility
  8. gives range
  9. gives MP
  10. gives % DI
  11. gives flaming
  12. redistributes damage (Bastion)
  • Debuff
  1. removes MP
  2. reduces dodge
  • Positioning
  1. pulls targets by 2-3 cells, pushes targets by 2 cells, freely teleports /swaps target up to 5 cells

Rogue
  • Support
  1. gives % DI
  2. Remove ally's LoS blocking
  3. Reduce distance damage suffered
  • Debuff
  1. Reduces range
  2. Removes WP (rather useless)
  3. Removes MP
  4. Incurable
  5. Removes Armour
  • Positioning 
  1. freely up to 13 cells with Boombot, up to 7 cell swaps, 3/5 cell pulls, 2 cell teleports

Ecaflip
  • Support
  1. Heals
  2. Gives crit %
  3. Gives % heals received
  4. Gives % DI
  5. Gives MP
  6. Gives WP (!!)
  7. Gives range / gives resistance
  8. Revives allies
  • Debuff
  1. Reduces resistance
  2. Reduces dodge
  3. Removes AP
  4. Removes MP
  5. Increases %DI against target
  6. reduces crit %
  • Positioning
  1. pushes enemies by 1/3, pulls enemies by 2

Eliotrope
  • Support 
  1. reduces % damage received
  2. Prevents death once
  3. removes AP
  4. minor healing
  • Debuff
  1. Reduces armour
  2. Removes MP
  3. Incurable
  4. Reduces range
  5. stabilises
  • Positioning
  1. Pushes and pulls in any way imaginable, teleports allies with no range and LoS requirements

Positioning BR
  • Push (delayed) with the ability to activate it

Spoiler (click here to show spoiler)

 
  • Accurate teleportation

Spoiler (click here to show spoiler)

 
  • Return to the start cell

No object required but dial is required. Positioning has weak restrictions teleportation of anything is accurate, If an encyclopedia is not a reliable source, why is it called an encyclopedia? It says that Xelor is a positioner. 
so let's see how Xelor is "good positioning" after a revamp...

Spoiler (click here to show spoiler)

 


Positioning AR
  • No push
  • Limited teleportation (forward only) by 2 cells and teleportation back for Xelor (limited to 1 time per turn)

Spoiler (click here to show spoiler)

  • Return to the start cell
  • Paradox requires an object

Spoiler (click here to show spoiler)

  • Tempus fugit requires additional pushing out of the temporal twist glyph

Spoiler (click here to show spoiler)

Positioning AR(after revamp) is complicated, limited and requires an object, no push.
Masq, Feca are much better positioner than Xelor, Although they did not have such a role before revamp. I won’t say anything about Panda (which fulfills this role too well) smile 

Mobility BR
  • Dial
  • Unlimited tempus fugit

Spoiler (click here to show spoiler)

Sufficiently high mobility due to unlimited tempus fugit

Mobility AR
  • It is possible to make dial large but is rarely used due to limitations

Spoiler (click here to show spoiler)

 
  • Moving around dial cost WP which has given a powerful boost to mobility but can hold back other roles (coz for damage and give armor need WP)
  • The tempus fugit is limited but it still gives mobility

Spoiler (click here to show spoiler)

 
  • Symmetry spell need an object

Spoiler (click here to show spoiler)

  • You can kill dial, sinistro or cog to teleport to their place (limited)

Spoiler (click here to show spoiler)

High level mobility, although it requires an object and needs to monitored WP

Survivability BR
  • Passive if you remove 3 AP than you get 1 AP buff back and 5% of the max HP.

Spoiler (click here to show spoiler)

 
It motivates to remove AP. Considering that in the game it is not always possible to feel the effect of removing AP (PvE).

Survivability AR
  • Passive for getting armor instead of 2 cell removing AP and +50 res

Spoiler (click here to show spoiler)

In principle gaining HP back is much more valuable than armor. After all many opponents can hit through armor, but +50 res is a good bonus.

Summons BR
  • The number of sinistro depends on the control point, the attack twice and remove AP

Spoiler (click here to show spoiler)

  • Hydrant attacks every turn. More than 2 can be summoned, Hydrant buff one aoe fire spell

Spoiler (click here to show spoiler)

Screen by Omicron-Z#5014 (Solitude Of Distant Lands)

Spoiler (click here to show spoiler)

 

The summons are useful, although they did not have depth

Summons AR
  • You can not make a lot of sinistro  (1 without passive, 2 with passive). Sinistro no longer attacks twice. sinistro buffs 1 AP and it buff enemy too.

Spoiler (click here to show spoiler)

  • Hydrant (Cog) requires activation to do damage (you can invite 1 without passive, 2 with passive)

Spoiler (click here to show spoiler)

Summons got worse due to restrictions. Sinistro is useless, Summons still lack depth.

Identity BR
  • All element are connected (both in damage and in the ability to activate additional effects)
  • Tick and Tock are part of Xelor's identity, Xelor can switch them for 1 WP

Spoiler (click here to show spoiler)

  • Rollback system allowed for 3-6 AP each turn.

Spoiler (click here to show spoiler)

Xelor's identity is supportive and rewarding (harmonious).

Identity AR
  • All elements depend (!) on fire, because there is a damage amplifier (Distortion spell) the elements are not connected (like air and water).
  • Tick and Tock now are passives – optional elements. Xelor cannot switch it.

Spoiler (click here to show spoiler)

 
  • Some passive have been absorbed in sublimation (save, temporal prism). cyclothymia sublimation duplicated with Tick, Tock passive.

Spoiler (click here to show spoiler)

  • The time thief system trades WP for AP, which makes Xelor very addicted.
 Xelor's identity has dependencies and disadvantages.

Few other observations about Xelor after revamp. 
Opportunities rarely used (for me this the would be used if there was place in the spell deck or an extra passive slot) : Sandglass spell and the course of time passive. 
Specific instruments:Big dial, Dark dimension passive (+30 FoW instead of damage in the current hour and no synergy with another passive Counterclockwise which gives +15% damage more in the current hour), More resists to dial(momentary permutation passive), but you switch places with it

Spoiler (click here to show spoiler)

and I don’t like dark bolt and assimilation passive. 
dark bolt

Spoiler (click here to show spoiler)

before revamp this spell

Spoiler (click here to show spoiler)

I am sure that most Xelor players do not use assimilation due to the too harsh penalty.
What changes will kill Xelor?
1) Сhanging WP recovery method with current WP consumption.
2) Complete change passive “Knowledge of the Past” can reduce damage but free up your range.
3) Changing the concept of the current hour
.
gifs to point 5

Spoiler (click here to show spoiler)

Spoiler (click here to show spoiler)

What is good with Xelor after revamp?
  • 1) The current hour is now active. You can auto tp to the current hour (if there is a corresponding passive) You can influence the effect of the current hour

Spoiler (click here to show spoiler)

Spoiler (click here to show spoiler)

  • 2) More damage
  • 3) Maybe that All unused AP can transform into WP
  • 4) Hammer has become a unique spell. Suspension can stab you until the end of the current turn, Hand recover 5 AP if you finish enemy.

Spoiler (click here to show spoiler)


Hammer
  • 5) Dial stronger
  • 6) Clock spell +Sandglasss spell are unique and provide powerful delayed damage

Spoiler (click here to show spoiler)


So where is the new Xelor better than the other classes?
Only in the ability to transform WP to AP, it allows Xelor class to have explosive damage given that base damage numbers have been increased and a lot of damage passives. Yes, Xelor can give AP, but then he will not be able to fully compete with different support classes that give much more than Xelor.
For me Xelor before revamp more elegance and harmony, although some of its spells were old (such as removing the ini). Xelor after revamp is more about limitation for me.  

Score in doritos.
.
 

Spoiler (click here to show spoiler)

Thank you for reading. Hope it was fun and helpful.
 

P.S. about removing AP. Frostbite + Sandglass + Clock allowed a total of 9 AP to be removed if I recall correctly. After revamping Frostbite + Desynchronization + Hammer (which in the best scenario can work 4 times on one object) and passive course of time  (if you have AP left to activate this passive) allow more than 12 AP, although they require incredible investments by willpower! you need to take into account what the numbers say, it does not mean that it will be so in reality. If the numbers say that I can try to remove 12 AP, this does not mean that in reality I can remove them, because the opponent's willpower increases after each removal of AP / MP. And taking into account the fact that the damage has grown much, removing AP has become unprofitable. Moreover, there may be another player in the team who removes MP, so a dead mob is much better than a living one with a removed AP. Removing AP can be beneficial in PvP battles, but not in 1vs1 because Xelor will quickly deplete resources and will not be able to defend himself.

P.S.S. Sinistro changes can add a lot of identity to the class and make Xelor shine. for example, sinistro can generate a freeze aura debuff (which by the way is among the effects in the game) and if the enemy gets there, it will have a debuff to willpower. Also about adding something to identity. temporary waves,- this is an advanced version of Tick / Tock (which, in my opinion, did not need to be sent to passives)
Each wave imposes a positive and negative effect on Xelor, which would not just be a bonus to damage, but change the effects of spells. it would add serious depth, but also load on balancing. we can think of time waves as a constant state that takes into account the actions of Xelor several turns in order to give it some kind of delayed effect. but again I don't really support effects that are just numbers. I like the things that can affect the structure of the spell better. Let's say there is a Telefrag state in dofus that takes into account the positioning of Xelor and rewards it with an AP. The Telefrag system is very deep in Dofus.
You can also expand the concept of the current hour to enhance your identity. For example, make the current hour consumable or use the current hour not only for damage, but also for support and positioning.
21 -7
Reactions 26
Score : 9633

Great in-depth analizys and balanced opinions. I do agree on A TON of these points. While I do enjoy how Xelor's damage feels more "brute", especialy with Hand and Suspension being quite the heavy hitters, plus the indirect damage of Shriveling, Clock and Sandglass kinda made Xelor the "anti-feca" in many respects.

The teleportations like Symmetry and Gear can feel quite clunky, but I enjoy how I can teleport allies and enemies without relying on the dial, and technicaly speaking the teleportation distance is almost the same (6 cells if you use the max range) but similar to Masqueraiders and Pandawa, it requires the Xelor to use their own selves.

I also agree 100% on Paradox not requiring a target.

How I would improve precise teleprotation? SMALL change on tempus fugit. Whenever you put the glyphs, one of Xelor's spells could teleport a target to the nearest glyph similar to Feca's Glyph+Avalanche combo, (perhaps Slowdown) so Xelor gain back its precise teleportation with a nice range (since Fugit have a 5-cells range)

While I agree Sinistro sucks, I'm kind of a sucker for the Cog. I think we both can agree the animation is beautiful, and now on beta it literaly bypasses ANY INVULNERABILITY, that can lead to some powerful combos. And since it deals indirect damage, Ruin + Shriveling will boost it's power to +40% damage. Plus it goes well with other classes able to teleport as they can trigger your cog even further for you, and even heal it so it can be used further. Making Cog almost usable like a companion your team can work around. But needing a passive to summon 2 is kinda dumb. I also think Cog could trigger the moment its summoned too.

Another issue I noticed with the Xelor is that it got SOME potential to be melee or at least not be defenseless in melee combat, with some good damage ones with low minimal range, and the Battlemage passive now giving us 50 res, but the armor it brings is laughable. It should be something substantial like 10 or 20% of our HP. They could also give us a passive that causes Cog's AOE to also happen around the Xelor, so we get not only a good interaction with it, but also something valuable to bring on Melee fights. As long as the Cog is alive, the Xelor will deal it's AoE at the end of it's turn, OR everytime it teleports (meaning Paradox and Simmetry will give you extra damage and you can just keep your Cog somewhere safe)

2 0
Score : 10259

Hey! thanks for taking the time to watch and rate this topic.

the current positioning feels the load on the MP. I mean, for accurate teleportation you don't need to move/spend a lot MP to indicate where to teleport anything. this is the advantage.
accurate teleportation has always been with this class. in the current positioning system, you either have to play a lot of MP in order to align with an ally (or correctly move something with the Gear), but you will not have a lot of WP (given that most of us go to a deal with the devil and change half the MP to 6 WP, which essentially led to a unique situation in the game where  class can normally play with 2 MP or even 1 MP with our dependence on dial because for movement we spend WP).
In another situation, you are forced to put the object in order to use the paradox. This method is very cognitively burdensome for the player, because it is much easier to indicate a place for teleportation and activate teleportation than to consider where an object can be placed on which to use a paradox to move something. At the same time, we do not have cheap objects that we could place every turn without investing resources. It turns out that AP after positioning is more profitable to transform into WP than to do damage or low support. What makes Xelor uncompetitive as a full-fledged positoner.
Therefore, removing the requirement from the paradox spell will greatly change the situation for the better. if you don't rely on dial for competitive positioning need have a lot MP, Underhand need to be on the line and teleports the object forward 2 сell (if Xelor looks at an object which we teleport away from myself). Gear is limited to 1 use per turn. If Xelor is looking at an object, the Gear will teleport this object back . And if the teleportation site is occupied? Or are you not allowed to teleport this way? And to control gear you need to get closer to what you want to teleport. I mean, to teleport anything to the left you need to be aligned with the object to the left, to teleport an object to the right you need to align with the object to the right. And it will be teleportation by the type of pushing forward. We can also teleport an object back relative to our location, but we also need to respect the sides (left, right, up, bottom of the map).
Precise teleportation wins 100% of the time because you don't need to align with the object or keep to the side. You just indicate the place where you want to teleport


Masq changes with the object without the need to be in line with it, and can also push and have a high level of self-healing, so the Masq is not afraid to be near the enemy. Xelor has no high recovery. Panda is a tank with high mobility, which is also not dangerous to be close to enemies. The positioning of Panda is also accurate, because the panda indicates which cell to place something. Xelor is limited by the fact that he can teleport the object only 2 cells forward, or move the object back 1 time using the Gear. Feca (which is a tank and can give itself tons of armor) has accurate teleportation and does not need to use a lot MP to teleport anyone. So for me teleportations like Underhand and Gear still force to use dial or need abandon 6 WP from Memory passive. 

I have no complaints about the Cog as you can see from the analysis. I just noted dryly that in addition to damage, Hydrant gave an additional bonus (and you can invite more than two Hydrant, Cog is maximum 2). 
And Sinistro is disgustingly useless @[email protected]
Even if you make an assembly with passives for 2 sinistro and for a passive for additional effects (Specialized Mechanisms), you will still not be competitive in relation to classes that can combine damage and support (Feca, Masq, Eca, etc.).
This is a BIG problem, that after removing revive and making it harder to provide AP, Xelor is now very sad as support and people will take another class for support.
Therefore, I suggested returning revive or not returning it, but adding a little more support. Or change the concept of providing AP, which will raise Xelor in this role. Unfortunately, the picture "how to fix" seems to be unsaid, so I explain in this message what I mean.
   
Hand, Suspension combine high damage and have unique (useful) effects. I like that after a revamp you don't have to do a million actions to do good damage.
Indirect damage of Clock and Sandglass great although I think that it is necessary to strengthen the poison by Shriveling because it requires a build to a high level of willpower, which can negatively affect survivability for example.
But Clock after completely changing the concept of the spell in 1.73 (thanks Siu!)
+ Sandglass very juicy combination. It can also be effective against sacriers. 
2 0
Score : 4411

I think you forgot to mention that you can swap with symmetry and gear, but yeah I agree with 90% of this post. The only think I would really disagree on is their survivability and identity before the rework, I'd say they were just as bad as now.

2 0
Score : 10259

Hi! 
I had doubts about how many Doritos to give to the topic of survivability, because on the one hand, we often said that we could be called glass cannons, but on the other hand, I see how many opponents I come across in the game who can hit through armor (poisons from mobs, poisons from other classes, feca glyphs), so I raised the rating for survivability just because raw HP recovery is so much more valuable than armor. but I agree with you that 5% of max HP was not much and required at least a lot of HP in order to get tangible recovery. For example, to restore 1250 HP, you initially had to have 25,000 HP. Many of my colleagues have not invested as much resources into HP, so I understand that survivability can feel equally low after and before revamp. Thank you for noticing this.

I deliberately left out swap and did mention Telefrag. Let me be clear. The point is that telegraph and swap are part of the same thing.
Definition:

Spoiler (click here to show spoiler)

If the destination cell is occupied, the teleported character and the entity on the occupied cell change places: a Telefrag occurs and the two characters whose places were exchanged are the targets of the Telefrag. In DOFUS, a Telefrag (reference: http://quakewiki.org/wiki/Telefrag) is a change of position between two entities, created when a destination spot is already occupied by an entity.
For Xelor spells, when this scenario occurs, all affected targets enter a “Telefrag” state for two turns.
There is one exception: Xelors cannot use a “Telefrag” state by means of a teleport. 
Telefrag will play an important part in Xelor gameplay and will be the source of many combos.
Telefrag = Swap. Only swap effect in Dofus affects gameplay! 
for example if it happened:

Spoiler (click here to show spoiler)

  • Slow Down, Hand, Xelor's Sandglass, Time Theft and Clock removes/takes an additional AP from targets in this state.
  • Shriveling and Dark Ray deal increased damage to targets in this state.
  • Xelor's Dial deals damage and removes AP from enemies, while granting bonus AP to allies in this state.
  • Targets with the is state in the AoE of the Temporal Dust spell are teleported symmetrically around the spell's centre.
  • Once per turn, if this state is applied to anyone, the Synchro summon is healed and receives a power increase.
  • etc

Swap in Wakfu game doesn't have much weight for gameplay. it seems to be unfinished, but there is mechanic, yes, in Xelor class. Maybe in the future  this mechanic received an improvement, which would likewise improve the identity of Xelor.

Thank you for saying about the swap, Cody! It allowed me to add additional information on this matter. 
2 0
Score : 158

It makes me both glad and depress, gladly knowing that the players of Wakfu are still having faith and into so much detail for the better of the game (or at least the way of thinking is).

And the depressing part is that knowing all these hard work will fall on deaf ears as the devs are very very hard press on their own vision and way of thinking of how the game should be and most of them are away from what their fanbase would like them to be, just like all the threads and suggestions before this.

Maybe will eventually take some suggestions to soothe the players but in its core its still the same.

Supporting Wakfu feels just like being in a one sided relationship.

Hope your effort are not wasted. Best of luck.

2 0
Score : 10259

Hello.
Thank you for appreciating my work! I want to believe that the changes introduced in patch 1.73 were not made to calm us down.
I was overjoyed when I saw that Siu completely abandoned the past concept of "Dial master" passive or past Clock spell and made some really interesting variations, now Dial master passive is definitely about dial mastery smile. And for the Сlock spell Siu came up with an interesting and powerful effect in 1.73
I was so happy for the entire Xelor community and for the new players who will come to play for this class! These were bold changes because the effect was completely changed, not just numbers.
The fact is that during the discussion of the revamp, there was a feeling that people were moving in different directions, which made it difficult to understand to the developer what we really want. But then everything calmed down and we began to analyze, suggest things that could be improved.
I hope that game developers now or in the future will pay attention to Xelor identity. 
There is already a foundation. For example, swap effect can be used in the Xelor gameplay. Changes can be made for other roles : Paradox spell restrictions can be lifted (positioning improvements) or added support effects. Sinistro can get a change.
Each game class sometimes needs a little more love than nerf. 
 

2 0
Score : 61

Heyo,


I disagree with quite a lot of statements in your post, so I'd like to discuss on your reasoning behind these. Don't hesitate to clarify your points if there are things that I misunderstood, or if you think that I am completely wrong on some stuff.
There are also a few mistakes that might mislead you, skewing the analysis a bit, which I'll list and try to complete.

My intention is to challenge the analysis on some points to make sure we reason on a basis that will be the least biased possible. And also because I don't understand some things.


First off, about Xelor's support tools :

TL;DR : Specialized Mechanisms looks heavily underrated to me. Assilmilation as well.

Spoiler (click here to show spoiler)

-Pre-rework's water res removal was a personal damage tool and not a support option. It only lasted for the Xelor's turn, making allies unable to make use of it.


-You actually can give 1 AP on your current turn outside of Devotion :
I think Specialized Mechanisms is key to giving AP at least efficiently. By sacrificing a Sinistro you'd have a nice +1AP in a 2-cell cross, and if combined with Assimilation and destroying the thing with Hand in melee range (not hard to get enough mastery for that), the whole manoeuver costs 1AP, to give 1AP in a decent AoE.

That bit means you can either maintain guaranteed AP buffs (up to permanent +3, with turn 1 being weaker although having Devotion) through putting and sacrificing a Sinistro each turn and spamming Desynch on allies.
If the content you're clearing also allows it, you can let the Sinistro live its course for one turn, then sacrifice it and put it back, which means you can squeeze an AoE +2AP each turn with a single Sinistro. With Assimilation, this manoeuver can be free for the Xelor from turn 2 onwards, although requiring passives to specialize in that aspect (much like any recent rework and pre-rework support Xelor).
And if the content does not allow for short fights, you can add Remanence in the mix and setup for a permanent AoE +3AP from two Sinistros, one of which gets sacrificed and put back every turn.

It is not doable in every content, but when it is, and when the fight has to take quite a time, I wouldn't want to overlook the option to have free AP.
It looks bad in PvP though, being the only content where a +1AP on enemies actually can have an effect.

-AP removals weren't mentioned all that much, but the rework nerfed multi-target AP removals, yet buffed single-target AP removals quite a bit in my opinion.
With the same kind of setup as above, Sinistros can become a -2AP attempt for only 1AP cost. That's a massively profitable tradeoff, thanks to Specialized Mechanisms.


-Comparison between pre-rework and post-rework doesn't take into account the AP-giving dynamics of both sides :
On fast content, pre-rework was a +5AP for many allies for the most part. On slow content, it was at most +5AP two turns out of four, +3 on the other two.
On fast content, post-rework is at most a +1AP for a few allies on every turn, or +0 turn 1 and up to +4 for turn 2 and later.
I'll put this one out of the spoiler because it looks very important to me :

Note that you can synchronize your AP-boost setups with that of any class that plays a 2-turn dynamic :
Place Sinistro and Desynchs on turn 1 -> Sacrifice Sinistro on turn 2
That allows for up to +4AP on turn 2 for one or two damage dealers, and Xelor gets his whole turn 2 with a +2AP (and a lower costing Distortion, and one more stack of Time Theft...). This is a high cost manoeuver on turn 1 (10AP and 2WP), but allows for a much more explosive turn 2 on the whole team, and only requires Specialized Mechanisms. Assimilation should not be needed for such a setup.
Withering might be needed if the other damage dealers cannot setup with a -2AP, but I'm sure there is a fine way to work around the -AP.
Difficulty might be there in content where the Sinistro might not survive, as well. Though that's still exploitable on bosses like Tanuki.


About the class comparison on support tools :

TL;DR : comparing classes for their tools only from a list of what their kit offers is misleading without context.

Spoiler (click here to show spoiler)

There needs to be context. All the things listed in the comparison only show what type of stuff is available, but neither the value nor the usability of the tools described, and a good majority of them are not worth it on a specialized damage dealer.

Xelor can keep some interesting AP-giving and positioning properties without giving up all that much damage. The 2-turn setup above only requires Specialized Mechanisms, the rest can go to pure damage, and still Spec.Mechs gives the Xelor that one AP back to compensate. I think that has to be taken into account, since most recent reworks actually cannot deal significant damage without giving up most of their support kit.


Feca is the most obvious case.
A DD Feca will not have enough damage to justify playing DD if they don't spend every single AP available in damage or setup. Staff is much too expensive to cast as a DD, positioning is too expensive for a DD as well, and DD passives lock Feca out of good protections. Even Bastion gets dangerous because of the redirection.

Other cases like Rogue or Ecaflip also need context.

Ecaflip on average is not the optimal damage dealer. Their boosts also need a lot of investment, or sacrificing personal damage.

Rogue is broken currently. The class doesn't even lose damage to do support stuff, because Rogues can just put two bombs, and use every single support tool in their kit on the first turn, and they're mad strong. +30%DI on an ally, and being a Pandawa on the first turn without losing any damage is bonkers.
I know the purpose of this analysis is not to make subjective statements, but that's a really juicy tool kit.


Eliotrope got a massive rebalance also, his positioning tools got reeled back in their ease of use.
Why is that comparison here? It the topic is about pre-rework / post-rework Xelor, the comparison brings nothing more than confusion in my opinion. If it is to compare to other classes to determine what values and restrictions would be balanced on Xelor, I would say it is still too early to say. Many things still haven't be tested properly, like Sinistros because of some kind of disdain for what they became.


Positioning :

TL;DR : never was Xelor's main role, I find that both versions are equivalent in power, just not in purpose. I think that would be important to talk about. I also think you might not know enough how other classes function, because your class comparisons are inherently biased by taking into account only one aspect at a time, while classes are a whole bundle of things mixed together, with varying density and diversity.

Spoiler (click here to show spoiler)

I think it should be noted that positioning tools' drawbacks, cooldowns, and restrictions are listed on the post-rework version but not the pre-rework. Why is that?

Pre-rework positioning was expensive as hell. Pushing a single cell was at least 3AP per cell, which was the most expensive push in the game.
Same goes for the teleportation. 5AP, which was the most expensive teleportation of the game, and actually too expensive for a decent positioner.
Post-rework is usually more expensive with Paradox, but Gear and Tempus Fugit need a lot less resources to be effective.

Cooldowns. Against the Clock had a buff, from being usable once every three turns to being usable once per turn with a 4-turn cooldown per target. The spell has limited usage, but now you can use it a lot more.

Restrictions. From being limited to around the Dial to using pivots.
In both cases, positioning tools without expensive use of Tempus Fugit is bizarre. Pre-rework has precise teleportations but only towards a chequered pattern around the Dial, post-rework has mostly 2, 4, and 6-cell teleportations. Both have their massive drawbacks that prevent Xelor from being an offensive positioner.

Though the tools a Xelor has to position stuff were and still are very potent to bring enemies in, so that another positioner can do their stuff better, and post-rework is much better at kiting a boss than pre-rework, thanks to Underhand and Paradox.


The class comparison is something i really do not like in this topic because they're not complete. They're only taking one aspect of the classes into account, which only brings confusion and biased conclusions, if you're not taking into account the capabilities of the classes themselves.

A support Feca doesn't have the time to position stuff, or will have to sacrifice their whole turn for it, outside of the occasional ally switch, Masqis a dedicated positioner but struggles a lot where Xelor is fine (bringing enemies in, Masq has a lot of difficulties to reach backline targets), and it costs so much resources to position stuff that there's not much room for boosts and protection.
And comparing any class' positioning tools to Pandawa will make Pandawa look overpowered, while forgetting that Pandawa is the only class that is hyper-specialized in positioning. Masq has some issues, but can do more things. Sacrier has even more struggles and cannot position offensively as easily (can't give the rear to DDs), but is the ultimate tanking class.


About mobility :

Analysis looks very good on this one, nothing much to say, except maybe to tell about the teleportation you get when casting Dial, now. This one is very nice to have, and helps a lot to finely position yourself, your Dial, and sometimes to get out of lock.


Survivability :

This one will be short as well. I can't tell for PvP, but I think Combat Mage is strong enough to compensate for pre-rework's Time Theft lifesteal. 50res isn't negligible, as it is around 10% damage mitigation, and you can get both some amount of armor, and use Slowdown as a damage spell. This passive looks much better to me for survival than old Time Theft, as long as Xelor is not alone.
Enemies hitting through armor is mostly a PvP issue as well, since PvE relies without issue on protectors specialized in armor.


Summons :

You didn't note how weak the old summons were on their own (outside of 1v1 PvP with flocks of Sinistros since in any other case it just doesn't work).

I completely disagree with your conclusion. Old summons were mostly "cast and forget", and although fun, you just put them down and that's it, and in 1v1 PvP you'd just setup your flock and keep teleporting your target in your danger zone. There was some difficulty on where to place your summons, but once you've figured it out, it's just purely routine.

They're now somewhat interactive. If that's not depth of gameplay, I don't know what is. Sinistro not that much, although there is interaction with Specialized Mechanisms and the positioning required, but I've talked about that already. Cog though is possibly the only class spell that actually makes your supports help do damage actively. Even healers can help with it, and Xelor has the option to burn it out on their own now.


Identity :

TL;DR : You're listing drawbacks of the revamp here, but not the shortcomings of the pre-rework system.
Current Xelor doesn't fit that bad in the idea of respecting the rules of time and playing with AP.

Spoiler (click here to show spoiler)

I get that identity is a strong point in most classes, but I think what you write about it is your personal opinion. I personally find that Xelor's identity lies in having to respect the rules of time (no rule-breaking without backlash) and playing with AP one way or another.

I don't like this part of your analysis because it gets subjective, especially in your conclusions. The class's identity feels very strong on my part since the rework.


Pre-rework, you'd have Tick and Tock, but that system had very noticeable shortcomings. Tick and Tock was a forced rhythm, it was not for the Xelor to decide of their rhythm, to the point where wanting to decide of your rhythm meant skipping the mechanic as a whole. "Skip or suffer", that's kind of how it felt when the rhythm didn't fit the fight. That's an identity, but it doesn't feel good for everyone, hence Tick Tock becoming an option.
Desynch was needed anyway to keep spamming the strongest combo, which is not good at all for that part of the identity.

Post-rework, there's one rule : burn your resources and you will have to rest. That looks not so great but means that with this rule, the player gets to decide when to act, and also, when they will have to rest.
That was not present at all before the rework, with Rollback being the only variable and combos being flexible enough to account for Rollback unreliability.

Every strong combo relied on some part of fire damage as well. Tick Aging combos required fire spells (around 2/3rds fire, 1/3rd air, and were generally the highest damage combos), Temporal Freeze was consumed by a fire spell (Temp Freeze combos were around 4/5ths water 1/5th fire, sometimes more water for very long combos), Temporal Dust was pure fire, and other elements' combos had shite damage.

Dependency on fire for damage is not a new thing at all, and that dependency was forced by the spells themselves. You had to play Hand and Temporal Burn with Aging, you had to play Hand and Temporal Burn with Time Control and Clock. You had to play Hydrants to make Temporal Dust strong.

Post-rework's fire dependency only relies on Distortion, but Distortion doesn't force to play specific spells to be effective, as long as it hits and deals damage, since it brings so much base damage that the DPA difference between most spells becomes marginal.


Post-rework, Xelor has to respect the rules of time, and although Time Theft's AP are not always used, it feels really nice when it gets to a high number, knowing you're charging up turn after turn.

Burn your resources too fast to deal more damage and you will have to skip a turn to gain them back. I find that very strong of an identity in itself, and it still comes with AP management. I prefer that to the old identity where there were never disadvantages, and I find much more flavour in being overpowered once in a while but having to rest than being very strong very reliably and without flaw.


About the other observations :

Assimilation is strange but should work very well with Sinistro setups as I mentioned far above. For damage-dealing purposes, it should be manageable if you still stand above 10 maxWP so that you can play the first turns without issue, then compensate for the drawback on bosses through your team giving you food, and the utility of being able to use Sinistros for cheap.


About how to fix Xelor problems :

Play with the damn things. I'm sure Sinistros can be much stronger and usable than you seem to think.

And about Paradox, it kind of has to be "bad" if it is to remain a damage spell, because not requiring a pivot would just make it free boss kiting without actual damage loss. Maybe if it didn't have damage, it would be fine, but there are also technical limitations to the spell, as the GDs already talked about on the beta server long ago.


Lastly, for your P.S. about AP removals :

Pre-rework could easily try at the very least -10AP with Time Control's AP removal redirections and AP gains. Clock was absolutely not effective for single target AP removal. Attempt at -10 would usually not be forced because it would be more efficient to spend some AP to gain FoW to try -8 but better than to not gain as much and try -10.

Post-rework gained a bit more FoW, and still requires as much investment to be effective in single target. Total -AP you can attempt is likely the same but it is more reliable, with one Slowdown on self, two Slowdowns on target and two Desynchs having only -2 bases instead of a few -2s and lots of -1s.
But total amount you'd attempt can actually get higher if you play with the damn Sinistros and Specialized Mechs.

Though still, AP removal will forever be plagued by the fact that killing an enemy or kiting it is better than removing its AP. It does have its uses when you can squeeze AP boosts in the meantime.
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Score : 10259

Greetings!

I am glad that you accepted my proposal in the discord and joined the discussion. This allowed to bring in more analysis, which is always welcome.

  • Regarding removing water resist, have you a screenshot of this spell (name "Time control" in English). It seems to me that the effect lasted until the beginning of the next Xelor turn, but if this is not so, then I apologize for this point.

It's so strange that to provide 1 AP aoe buff, you need to spend 2 AP 2 WP for sisnistro and spend Hand (which has a 2-time limit per turn), so you lose damage by coz no double casting this spell, and also take a passive slot to give sinistro this additional effect. Assimilation is a very severe penalty for being able to restore 2 WP by killing sinistro. So you spend 2 passive slots, 1 cast Hand to make + 1 AP buff? Do I understand correctly? It is very strange to me that sinistro, which used to benefit from its existence on the map (remove AP and attacked twice), should now be perceived as something that needs to be killed.

If you put a sinistro on the first turn, then what guarantees that it will be profitable and not dangerous for allies to stand next to the sinistro on the second turn?

What kind of workaround - AP do you mention other than poison? Most people do not invest resources in the average willpower (above 20 willpower), but Xelor needs this indicator if he wants to support the team not only through the AP buff, but also through the removing AP too. 

Support tools.
  • What do you think about deleting mummification (revive) from Xelor class? Do you think that having removed such a powerful tool, support for Xelor has not become worse?

If we are talking about dynamics, then does it not rest on the ease of providing action points?

I draw attention to the fact that you could give 5 AP to allies at once, in the current turn and 2 AP to three others if they were standing on the dial cell.

Spoiler (click here to show spoiler)

And after revamp gives one ally 3 AP immediately through Devotion, + 1 AP buff (you spend 6 WP 2 AP one valuable damage spell Hand and 2 passive slots for Desynchronization (in order to keep the dynamics of AP granting later) and Special mechanisms for Sinistro buff effect) in the current turn, that in the best scenario, 5 team members get 1 AP buff and the sixth team member gets 4 AP (from the death of sinistro + devotion), which in total 5 + 4 = 9 AP can be given in the current turn (first turn) after revamp, and before the revamp you could give 15 AP in the first turn (5 AP for three team members and the other three received 2 AP each (3ally * 2 AP = 6 AP) if everyone stood on the dial cell). In total, in the best scenario before the revamp, Xelor gave 21 AP in the first turn !!

9 AP <21 AP from which I conclude that providing AP (support) is worse.


And continuing to talk about the ease of providing action points, for Xelor before the revamp,-  it was not necessary for allies to be close, the dial allowed three allies to be located so that Xelor did not even need to move in order to buff two allies and spend 1-3 MP (+2 MP for devotion so total around 5 MP could be used) to buff the third ally +2 AP
.

 
Now let's see to how the allies should stand after the revamp in order to get 9 AP in the current turn
.

.
They stand closer. And most importantly, Xelor must deprive himself of the distance bonus in order to get 1 AP buff too. Are you sure Xelor will be able to kill sinistro without losing distance bonus than cast Hand? I would like to check it out. But even if we can kill sinistro, allies should still be closer than they could have stood before the revamp. 

Next, about dynamics, I draw attention to the fact that desynchronization in this dynamics lags behind in comparison with Xelor before the revamp, because it gives AP on the next turn and all the more makes allies stand even closer!

Spoiler (click here to show spoiler)

 
Given the conditions of the battle and the dynamism of the battle, this is a very unlikely scenario (about the location of the allies).

When before the revamp, you could have given 15 AP to three more easily in the current turn, regardless of the dynamics and conditions of the battle.
From which we conclude that the provision of AP has become more difficult. I write next that even if we begin to justify this complication, shouldn't we have been given something to support with the removal of revive?

Comparison of classes.

Comparison of the classes shows the range of possibilities, shows that this classes have much more effects to support the team. We do not fully analyze the value and context, because we want shows the number of these effects. But even with an analysis of quality and context, do you have doubts that support from Feca is much better than support from Xelor? Or Masq support. We're not talking about Eniripsa support and we call specific classes because they have many effects for support and can play as a damage dealer...

Spoiler (click here to show spoiler)

I'm not saying that they can combine this, but Feca perfectly combines self-defense and damage in the piece armor, just like Masq combines damage and the ability to restore itself + ability removing resists.
 
Positioning.

Positioning has always been Xelor's role, it is indicated in the encyclopedia and on the home page https://www.wakfu.com/en/prehome. By the way, on the main page, Cra, Iop and Sram are indicated as damage dealers, not Xelor, which is somewhat confusing, because even a Feca after a revamp can play as a damage dealer.

And the description of the three roles in the encyclopedia speaks of the most pronounced archetypes. Therefore, we are comparing classes at the level of these archetypes. Panda and Xelor have a common archetype (positioning).
For me "Preventing movement" in Xelor is higher role than others.

Spoiler (click here to show spoiler)

 

Spoiler (click here to show spoiler)

panda
.
If you say that positioning is expensive, let's not forget to mention again, positioning after a revamp is very limited not only by the object for the paradox, but also by the fact that you can use the gear once per turn, and the underhand always teleports forward from Xelor by 2 cells.

Spoiler (click here to show spoiler)

When we talk about positioning, we mean three things.

1) can we move allies to a safe place (by moving mobs or moving allies)?
2) can we move the boss to remove his invulnerability?
3) can we place mobs for aoe damage?

And the presence of accurate teleportation before the revamp allowed for 10 AP to accurately save two allies, allowed for 5 AP to accurately teleport an ally without the need to line up in a line (which underhand after revamp does not allow), before the revamp, you also easily positioned the boss without having to be on the line with it ... Gear customization requires moving, a MP and especially WP an expensive resource. After the revamp, you can much more difficult to save one ally and at the same time move the boss to the right place, when using precise teleportation before revamp (10 AP for two for two teleportation) you could do both easy.

If you position with the paradox, you spend more AP than before the revamp. 4 AP paradox and you need some kind of object, : - sinistro 2 AP 2 WP or cog 4 AP or bone 3 AP (?)
In any of these cases, you spend 6 AP 2 WP or more than 6 AP, which already raises doubts about the most expensive teleportation in the game. 5 AP (precise teleportation) which did not require an object is not the most expensive teleportation against the background of the use of paradox spell. You can say that we used dial, but do not forget that we did not spend AP on it and dial was free (just 1 WP) with using a passive (for which we always had a place, given the small number of passives).
 
5 AP 1 WP (dial) VS 6 AP 2 WP (sinistro as an object) or even more AP, taking into account the cost of other objects.

Therefore, I suggested that if we remove the restriction from the paradox spell
on the object it will be a great change. 

Mobility.

Nice addition, I agree. BTW, I dont said about it because teleportation when you casting Dial was before the spell deck system! But everyone has already forgotten about it...
year 2012 

Spoiler (click here to show spoiler)

 

 I am a fairly old Xelor, so Siu passed back something from a very very old past.

Summons.

Yes, they are so interactive that I need to kill them. Cog becomes fragile after each activation, and Sinistro still buffs enemies. Hydrant gave a permanent bonus to aoe fire spell, taking into account the fact that it dealt damage and could remove a freeze debuff from you, which is used against you in several dungeons.

Spoiler (click here to show spoiler)

this debuff is found in Freeze's dungeon and also in dungeon 215 level in the snow area, osamosa
Can you remove freeze debuff from yourself after revamping by using fire spells? No. 

Identity

Before revamp there was an interactionbetween water and air.For each removal of action points, the enemy received damage if before that you had use Aging spell

Spoiler (click here to show spoiler)

 
 
and we had Tock condition on Xelor. After the revamp, there was no interaction between water and air.

I noted the merit of the new Xelor is the WP recovery system. You reproach my analysis for the lack of context, but you say that you can enjoy achieving a large number AP = WP trade, but this is also a lack of context. If we take the low difficulty of the dungeon, then how many turns will you spend there? Probably from 2-5 turn on average per room, which undoubtedly will not allow you to get pleasure from the fact that you can get 6 AP for 6 WP, so for this you need at least 6 turns and have enough WP. before the revamp, you could get more likely 6 AP from the first turn(!) through the Rollback system, although more often it was 3-4 AP, but such an opportunity was what the new system cannot boast of.
 
For example,

Spoiler (click here to show spoiler)

 
about the context, this dungeon for this team - 15 turns and 11 turns in the boss room. I don't think Xelor would be able to get 10 AP from the time thief and that's 50 stasis dungeon of the highest level at 1.73 patch! If you lower the difficulty, I don't think you can really enjoy big exchanges AP = WP... 
BUT! it is completely different in rift content. It is much easier to get this very pleasure from Time  thief there.


I agree on this your point.

Spoiler (click here to show spoiler)

However, removing an AP will always be difficult due to the fact that killing an enemy or kiting is better than removing their AP. This is really useful when you can squeeze the AP boost in the meantime

And thank you again for your comment. Hope to receive your feedback

o/
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Score : 10259

Today everything was difficult due to depression and my emotional exhaustion, but I would like to complete this essay. First of all, thanks to everyone who left comments. It warmed me up and gave me "mental food" for thought. 

Even if the AP grant has restrictions (on the AP grant on the first turn) and on the location of the allies (they must be close) in order for them to receive AP, I was able to enjoy the passive by special mechanisms
.


Considering that Xelor regenerates an additional 1 WP, we can imagine that sinistro costs 2 AP 1 WP, if we do not use a 2 MP passive.
...
https://www.wakfu.com/en/prehome
I don't want the main site to mislead new players.

Spoiler (click here to show spoiler)

 
Xelor's positioning is disgusting.
but why are positioning tools SO limited?
Underhand...Gear...
I understood why the paradox cannot be changed now. This spell is needed not only for positioning, but also for aoe damage, since it has good indicators for this.
Underhand not only limited by what that you need to be on the line, but also by the fact that it can be used 1 time per target...
Gear can be used once per turn...
Before revamp, Underhand was able to manipulate the same object multiple times. You were only limited by AP...

Spoiler (click here to show spoiler)

 
and now now ... I tried to repeat this combination (5 AP, 1 MP 1 WP (for dial))

Spoiler (click here to show spoiler)

 

and I'm sad to see it

Spoiler (click here to show spoiler)

 
the goal is the same. exactly place the object, but as a result I wasted 11 AP 2 MP 2 WP 

One and the same goal, but after the revamp I spend more to achieve it. What then, was the positioning improved? if someone finds a cheaper way to do what is in the picture, please share it...
and in order to use these limited new gear and underhand for positioning now I need to move more, I even need to use symmetry spell and leave my dial

Spoiler (click here to show spoiler)

 
Identity. 
The new Xelor has a foundation and potential that is not being used, but it can lead to an improvement in identity. I'm talking about swap effect = Telefrag.
See how much of this Xelor has now:

Spoiler (click here to show spoiler)

 

Spoiler (click here to show spoiler)

 

Spoiler (click here to show spoiler)

 
pay special attention to this (combination Telefrag in Wakfu)

Spoiler (click here to show spoiler)

 
similar combination in Dofus

Spoiler (click here to show spoiler)

 
it frustrates me very much. Why add so much swap effects if it minimally affects the depth of the Xelor gameplay in Wakfu.

I feel with every cell of my body that the Xelor after revamp is not using its all potential.
Revamp worsened positioning and support, but improved damage and AP removal. Although the latter is not so useful against the background of high damage.

Spoiler (click here to show spoiler)

AP removal will forever be plagued by the fact that killing an enemy or kiting it is better than removing its AP.
Patch 1.73 fixed many annoying aspects (clock spell, dial master passive, course of time passive) and is much more comfortable to play. but sometimes I start to miss a lot ... for revive and positioning.
1 0
Score : 3851

In fact, 2 cell linear  range is the best range for Telefrags ("transpositions") based on the current Xelor, because it makes use of the natural characteristics of the spells and passives available.

Paradox: Xelor can be used as a target to move teleportees up to 2 cell linear, or target needs to be 2 cell linear of the teleportee
Dial: Max telefrag distance is 2 cell, at 1 cell you cannot escape lock. Nobody uses the big dial for triggering a telefrag because the position of the big dial's hour cells is too important compared to telefragging someone linearly.
Underhand: Min 2 range, linear cast. as teleportee is moved 2 cells, the telefrag is also 2 cells.

Clockmaking: not worthwhile to trigger a telefrag from as nobody can control it, unless the Xelor is the last player, and even then, getting an enemy precisely on the current hour is a huge turmoil.
Momentary Permutation: Never allows swapping with a non-self target

Tempus Fugit, Against the Clock, Gear, Symmetry: linear not necessary, but doable at 2 cells. Against the Clock also spends a lot of effort for a telefrag for no real reason other than to create a telefrag.

Cogs have a 2 cell radius, and both summon's Specialised Mechanisms death is also capped at 2 cell range.

The only passive that purposely makes use of telefrags is, of course, Course of Time, which is either paired with Combat Mage for the -AP to turn into something actually useful without removing your own number of spells casted per turn due to AP loss, or with Shrivelling, to grant the distance Xelor options of more AP removal/ Shrivelling stack depending on if they work with melee or distance telefrags.

A 2 cell range also is not how distance Xelors work, while passives like portent, big dial, violent omens, knowledge of the past, clockmaking, etc favours distance Xelors.

Symmetry, Gear, Tempus Fugit, Against the Clock and Underhand also needs Line of Sight, and it certainly doesn't help that linearity is required for Paradox, Dial and Underhand.


Even Ecaflip's Craps had its nonlinear nonpush capabilities removed, no hope of giving Underhand nonlinear nonpush casting range to do just that little bit more air damage even though it's already once per target. Why?

This about sums up the entire telefrag properties in less than 500 words, which is rather sad to me. Not very deep as a mechanism. Actually, that is a lot of words to serve a mechanism with very little combat potential and just one passive with minor benefits (capped, at 3 per turn, even) to reward attempting it. .



 

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Score : 904

I think that any good change they manage to do will be ofuscated by the horrrible Wp regeneration mechanic, the class feels so slow because of it that the gameplay feels boring in every way because of this mechanic.  Even if they do implement good thing in the class, I don't think I will be able to came back to play it because of how boring and slow this thing is, and how it slows you down.

1 0
Score : 10259

Hi. Thanks for looking into this thread! 
Yes, especially in this regard, Tick /Tock passive are to blame, which turn your gameplay into "wait for the next turn" and you will receive more damage /willpower when the old Tick / Tock changed my gameplay. On Tick, I could combine AP buff and AP removing, on Tock the emphasis was more on AP removing, and all the elements were connected through the additional damage or trigger mechanic.
Also a new identity where you are required to pay a whole skip turn if you have used WP too much. I don't mind paying, but if the task was to simplify the class, then WP consumption imposes a cognitive load or positioning in which you need to take into account many elements (can I move to the other side to position the object and will I be safe? can I back to dial even if the return to the start cell is limited to be targeted by the spell for 4 turns?). All this lengthens the battle, but allows you to accumulate stacks of the time thief, which you also have to pay for, when Rollback rewarded you for using spells and was what I call a "supporting identity", that is, an identity that does not punish or restrict you. if you removing 3 AP you will get 1 AP back and 5% HP back from max HP, etc. 
after the revamp I open the list of passives and see what punishments I want to choose today XD
want more damage? please, here's to you - MP
want more damage? please give your whole range XD
I'm exaggerating, of course some passives should have disadvantages, but there is something missing in the identity. 
although some Xelor ppl think the Tick / Tock was a forced rhythm, but in that rhythm we could switch it if we wanted to. if we wanted, we could activate delayed damage. if we want we could activate the delayed push.
but development saw that many Xelors were using a single phase to maximize the benefits. not all were like that, but it was too. developers could do fine if Xelor switches Tick / Tock a lot but not just turn Tick / Tock into passives...
okey, we have more "swap effects" that can be used in identity. we have the current hour, which can be made consumable, etc.
I believe the Xelor community is quite intelligent, cultural and creative. And for us to stay that way, our class must inspire us, motivate us to experiment, think, etc.
 

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Score : 10259

about Gear
if the distortion spell decreases in cost every turn, Gear could design as
>>>>>>> increases the cost by 2x after use: 
first use of 2 AP
second use 4 AP
third use 8 AP
fourth use 16 AP
if we use it often, it will reduce our capabilities in the roles of damage and support, which is quite balanced.
this would also greatly improve positioning, if сan't just remove the gear limit 1 per turn for always 2 AP per use, you can just make the cost of the spell increase from use. 
small compromise but greatly improve positioning roles
 

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Score : 4411

Microbot and Aegis already kinda work like that

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Score : 11921

 

9Nectum9#1864|2021-12-03 14:35:09
about Gear
if the distortion spell decreases in cost every turn, Gear could design as
>>>>>>> increases the cost by 2x after use: 
first use of 2 AP
second use 4 AP
third use 8 AP
fourth use 16 AP
if we use it often, it will reduce our capabilities in the roles of damage and support, which is quite balanced.
this would also greatly improve positioning, if сan't just remove the gear limit 1 per turn for always 2 AP per use, you can just make the cost of the spell increase from use. 
small compromise but greatly improve positioning roles
 

I think Gear should be split into 2: A spell that destroys and swap places with mechanisms at a longer range (Slowdown of Time users would appreciate it) and another for teleportations.

I like your idea and I think it would greatly improve the Positioner role of the class. If you aren't focused on dealing damage, an progressive increase of AP cost on the spell wouldn't hurt too much. You'd be able to teleport a target around the Dial if you want and it would complement well Paradox.
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Score : 10259

Hi!
thank you for your comment and attention to this topic.
in the first beta 1.71 gear had a huge range and one effect, but then this active spell was supplemented with a second effect and got an incredible limitation...
i agree with you that it was just necessary to make a separate tools: positioning tool and gear as a tool to destroy our summons.
and in order to limit it could be conditions that after used, its cost increases.
1 using per turn now is very sad and counterproductive for a positioner role sad 

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