Xelor after revamp. One more appeal to the developers.

Desynchronization, Mummification, Rollback are very old elements for Xelor identity. I will find mention of them since 2013....
With all the changes, they have never been deleted yet. It would be much better if Rollback worked
with the theft of time. This is the same rollback, but now the exchange is done for WP.
This compromise works for both the new and the previous system, allowing Xelor be Time Mage. 
After revamp need a lot of turns to boost AP through the thief of time, but Time Mage should be about AP (like it always has been) not about number of turns.
Also do something about it.
it is simply empty when all classes have this part of the identity.
One gets the feeling that the new Xelor is as empty as its indicator. 
 

The argument for removing mummification was, and remains unsound, now with more data to back it up.

Premonition remains in my spell deck one of the LOWEST priority spell to take along with Clock and Sandglass.

Xelor with a revive remains just as thematic as any class with anything.

Osomodas, a summoner with with Phoenix spirit self revive

Huppermage, a DD with health steal

Rogue, a DD with (2! Why?) Health steal

Cra, a top tier DD, with health steal

Sram, an evasive rather than tanking DD, with health steal

Eliotrope, a positioner, in particular with prevention revive, even though thematically this fits the idea of a Xelor rewinding time by preparing a spell in advance best.

Enutrof, a debuffer, with self Revive.

I can agree that mummification was too strong previously -you could circumvent the HP loss by stacking armour immediately after revival. In this case, the Eliotrope’s revival method thematically fits Xelor better than it does Eliotrope. Game-wise, all distance classes are fitted with one of the three ways to support regardless of their DD potential- positioning, buffing allies, or debuffing enemies. Xelor does nothing for the latter two, and is abysmal at the former because most of his spells at best boosts his own mobility more than facilitate movement of his allies (Symmetry, Dial, Tempus Fugit)

A self revive is not too much to ask for, a target revive is relatively balanced. Again, the comparison about panda being able to heal but not revive is raised, a trait no other healers share. There’s nothing in the way of letting Xelor support better- AP giving is hard gated by costs and cooldowns, ap removal remains niche and pointless in rooms given the existence of bread (why does Remington have 20+ AP??), Poison is also useless in rooms, positioning is subpar. Premonition has so little impact over the course of a battle, it costs AP on initial cast, has a 3 turn cooldown, AND continues to drain your WP for the duration of the state.

 

A simple way to buff air damage so that Suspension is not the only viable damage spell-

Change the Course of Time passive to letting Tempus Fugit trigger damage on enemy targets per teleport by the temporal glyph and do either direct or indirect damage.

This is because on odd turns, any AP in excess of 10 is pointless really, since you're just casting suspension twice, and AP spent beyond that is spent on subpar AP/damage ratio spells (Hand, Hammhour, and god forbid, Desynchronisation). Any other excess AP from devotion/time theft/acceleration would have been to position Xelor in its sweet spot of damage boosting things like 3-5 range, backstab, or Current hour, or Distortion, which is not always viable given the position of enemies/allies on the map.

Letting Tempus Fugit do more than 1 stack of damage justfies its- cost better, justify a use of a passive slot better, and it is hard to abuse because either damaging spells cost more than 2AP, restricting the number of casts, or low AP spell do not do damage on cast (Against the Clock, Premonition) , or moves the enemy off the glyph anyway (Gear, Underhand). Even Slowdown has a 2 per target restriction, and subsequent Hammhour hits do not "target" the original enemies per se so they're not teleported.

 

 

also for me. 

Arachive#9273|2021-06-16 03:48:48

The argument for removing mummification was, and remains unsound, now with more data to back it up.

Premonition remains in my spell deck one of the LOWEST priority spell to take along with Clock and Sandglass.
 

Xelor revive was really thematic, unique and balanced. Revived lost 33% HP every turn (maximum three turns). Without a healer in a battle, such resurrection was an extreme tool  to allow an ally to be in battle for a while.
Mummification before  spell deck system allowed you to control an ally! You could literally play for him.Like a old zombie mark from Eniripsa.
But mummification was never removed from the game as they did in this revamp. They just took and removed a lot of things that made up Xelor's identity, just increasing the damage.
Yes, I also don't like that Xelor is doing little for the allies now compared to what it used to be. Now, as you rightly noted, we are increasing our mobility and are deprived of accurate positioning tools. Tempus Fugit is meaningless if we cannot remove an ally from Time Rift coz if the enemy hits him, the ally will return to the old place.It seems strange to me that a class with a positioner role has so little effective positioning. Gear at least need to be separated from destruction summons and let us use it more often. The same goes for the Paradox. it would be much better if no mediator (object) was needed to symmetrically move something. As many people wrote during the beta theme, Xelor is very limited. But his limitations harm him, he seems to shoot himself in the legs.

Arachive#9273|2021-06-16 03:48:48

A self revive is not too much to ask for, a target revive is relatively balanced. Again, the comparison about panda being able to heal but not revive is raised, a trait no other healers share. There’s nothing in the way of letting Xelor support better- AP giving is hard gated by costs and cooldowns, ap removal remains niche and pointless in rooms given the existence of bread (why does Remington have 20+ AP??), Poison is also useless in rooms, positioning is subpar. Premonition has so little impact over the course of a battle, it costs AP on initial cast, has a 3 turn cooldown, AND continues to drain your WP for the duration of the state.
 

Ongoing support is depleting Xelor's supply of WP which we always need to use on our basic tool - dial or identity - to control (steal) time. The provision of AP is limited and requires to do Sinistro or spam Acceleration, because no one use current Desynchronization (water spell) to buff AP. In 1.70. we could remove action points from enemies and simultaneously buff an ally. Now this spell literally works against Xelor, forcing us to play at very low willpower. Depriving again the ability to remove action points from enemies (which is the thematic role of this class-"Preventing movement").There are a lot of situations in this revamp that are against Xelor compared to what other classes can do. 

 I like the idea of changing the weird passive (Course of Time) and improving the air in terms of being able to do damage (coz we only spam Suspension in air damage)

Thothus#6662|2021-06-16 04:23:28

A simple way to buff air damage so that Suspension is not the only viable damage spell-

Change the Course of Time passive to letting Tempus Fugit trigger damage on enemy targets per teleport by the temporal glyph and do either direct or indirect damage.
 

like this idea too . tick/tock are the identity of the class, and not just something that can be made optional and sent into passives. 

Granthese#6501|2021-06-16 02:43:37

Maybe an idea could be give Xelor a native Tick Tock, like every Odd turn you have +10% damage and every Even turn you have +10 FoW with no malus whatsoever, and the passives Tick-Tock and Tock-Tick would be just improvements to it as they are now. And if people like it, maybe one spell or two could have a tiny bonus depending on Tick and Tock.

but if a compromise is not possible with the current developer on the issue of improving the identity Xelor, then this idea is also good :

Arachive#9273|2021-06-16 03:19:19

A simple one would just be to show the number WP converted by Time Theft so that we don't have to waste time hovering over the spell to check.

In general, I would very much like Xelor to have improved positioning and support (including its own support for survivability).It feels like Xelor has no legs or arms and this feeling is constantly pressing. Especially when I see what Feca can do with it delayed buffs (just by placing one passive), allowing to better position also or what Masq as positioner can remove res, a lot heal, a lot armor and nice dmg I feel very painful and sad to play for this new Xelor. 
Thank for ideas and comments, guys! 
 

This is more of a QoL suggestion but seeing how many Xelors are strugling with the Current Hour and WP management, one thing that I think could help is if the Current Hour only moves when you spend Wakfu Points while you are on the Dial.

This means that you could step out of the hour cell, cast Devotion/Sinistro/Distortion and then get back on it without moving the Current Hour. This would give Xelors more control over it's movement and a reason to step out of the Dial too. This would make it easier to take advantage of the DI%/FoW bonus and keep the Current Hour facing the enemy.
 

 

Bluhen#6777|2021-06-24 23:33:41

This is more of a QoL suggestion but seeing how many Xelors are strugling with the Current Hour and WP management, one thing that I think could help is if the Current Hour only moves when you spend Wakfu Points while you are on the Dial.

This means that you could step out of the hour cell, cast Devotion/Sinistro/Distortion and then get back on it without moving the Current Hour. This would give Xelors more control over it's movement and a reason to step out of the Dial too. This would make it easier to take advantage of the DI%/FoW bonus and keep the Current Hour facing the enemy.
 

If it's too strong in Siu's opinion to be an innate thing then just replace Dial Master with this for its effect. it's minor enough to both be a boon and disadvantage depending on the situation, and taking up a passive slot for such a minor effect is a disadvantage of sorts already.

Sinistro and Cog - Previously, they could be summoned depending on the control. And before revamp Sinistro was much better and more effective than it is now. At the same time, many players did PvP builds entirely on Sinistro. Now you have not only reduced the number of sinistro, but also made it a useless tool and useless passives. 

After revamp Xelors are the same. They either use singl/rear build or knowledge of the past build and strive to achieve as much AP. It is difficult to play Xelor on 10 AP as before revamp. If earlier a low amount of AP could be offset by Rollback system, now the build with 10 AP is buried. Why then in the game are sublimations and items with the condition to have no more than 10 AP, if you remove the possibility of getting AP from the classes?
About getting AP, this is generally a separate meme, for how many months I have been playing after revamp in high-end content (200/215), no one uses any Sinistro to buff other APs, so your limit on MAX 4 AP does not even work, because all other restrictions simply shoot the player in the leg. Xelor is now a bunch of different tools with constraint conditions, whose design literally hinders players more than helps.
Assimilation passive (huge fine), Portent passive (huge fine), Course of Time  passive (nobody uses it), Dial Master passive (nobody uses it), - the worst passives that need to be reversed.

Nobody uses Cog  when there is a more efficient way to do damage with Distortion+Hand or Distortion + Suspension. Before revamp, Xelor had delayed damage through the air, but the current delayed damage was AGAIN very limited. To deal delayed water damage, you need a passive slot, a lot of willpower, but none of Xelor(200/215 level) uses water poison. Сlock spell is another big meme. Here is absolutely useless. What is stopping you from making a water bomb like an air bomb before revamp?  

Temporal Distortion  - 2AP, Range 2-5, not modifiable, st
Very interesting and not typical spell that stacks a state on the enemy instead of direct damage, up to 3 times. This state sets off at the start of our next turn as damage. You can trigger the damage yourself with Time Control or Line of Fire for 10% more damage (and the base damage of the spell is quite good too) The downside is fixed range, you‘ll most probably outrange it later and it becomes awkward.
 
 
Return this spell and replace it in place water CLOCK. The concept of delayed damage will continue and the СLOCK spell will become more useful.
But even the concept of delayed damage has questions. Xelor had it before with the ability to activate this turn. You deprived us of this opportunity and gave nothing, absolutely nothing in return.Even new Feca if  wants to activate the shields immediately, then Feca uses the passive.to activate delayed effects. What prevented you from making such a passive for Xelor?
if Xelor want support (buff AP) then give a penalty for dealing damage, but do more comfortable and harmonious instruments. 
If Xelor want to position normally, and not as it is now, then also a penalty to damage. Simply by all designs, you either impose limits or impose damage penalties. In the case of Xelor, - a huge number of restrictions were imposed on the support role (Xelor could even remove the water resistance before revamping) ppl don't use Desynchronization (water spell)/Sinistro for buff AP and there are tangible restrictions on the positioning role, for the class this role is MAIN, that the only way to play Xelor now this is to do as much AP build and piu-piu as possible to cause damage.
This is the key problem of the revamp. It destroyed the harmonious class identity and created a new body from scratch, but did not put her heart and soul into it. Very sorry.

P.S. there is still an error associated with the current hour, which does not move from I if Xelor use passive Counteclokwise. Sometimes if the current hour starts I - it moves when used WP tools but often it does not move. 

May 07, 2021, 17:54:36
...
July 11, 2021, 01:53:17

Three months with no response from your Modo or the devs. :S ...

That bad,

Hi, i'm Spwinx or Teraformeur from this little fan-website.
https://wakfuguidefr.wordpress.com/ 
(May be need google trad for understand frensh Guide, lol)

Will you please excuse me by my mediocre English. x)

You have just passed on the French Forum to ask at least a serious answer from Ankama.

I admire your Subject !

Full of very intesting idead and quite thorough questioning.
(I really think, that not easy to understand all Gameplay Xelor, with Translate Frensh to English.)

Beau travail ! ^^

I hope that your Topic in French can attract the attention we all want.

I was passing by to say that in any case on the French Forum you made good appreciations

On those.

Au revoir. :p

Because I have faith that the development team is moving towards an evidence based  approach to gauging the response to updates to-be-implemented, or that have been implemented, I would be very curious to know some of the data below, if there was coding in place to log them, which I think will be informative on the reception of the new xelor and/or revamped classes in general:


​​​​​Play time of a Xelor since creation pre/post revamp.

Time till deletion of a Xelor since creation pre/post revamp

Distribution of levels of all Xelor players in the French and International server pre and post revamp

Number of stat resets by subscribed players on Xelor characters per week

Distribution of classes in monthly battlefield ranks pre/post revamp

Distribution of classes in monthly competitive dungrons pre/post revamp

Number of Xelors among last active 10000 accounts weekly

Total number of points allocated on all different stats in across all Xelor characters, stratified by level

Total prevalence of any given spell and passive currently equipped onto spell pages of all Xelor characters.

Total number of times used of any given spell or passive (divided by number of cooldown turns) of all Xelors.


Especially for the last two, I think it will be a very good indicator of whether certain spells or passives were received well.

For example, it would be good if the prevalence of spell/passive equipped has a near equal distribution, without need for the total number of times used to be equal, because sometimes there are clutch spells like Gunner, Pacification and Against the Clock, which you want in your deck but might not necessarily use.

A high prevalence, low used spell implies it is very important in combat, a low prevalence, high use spell implies it is situationaly useful for specific dungeons, and low prevalence, low use spell probably deserves some looking into

 

Here's a thought: What if Clock was a water-version of Distortion? You use it and all your damage have a secondary "watery" effect, like maybe stealing Force of Will, maybe 10 per use up to only 3x, so you can increase your Force of Will up to 30 before performing a good AP theft, or even use it WITH an AP-theft spell so the enemy essentialy gains 0 FoW when the AP is stolen. Or even give your attacks indirect Water damage.

And on that idea, Underhand could do the same, you cast on yourself, and every attack on a straight line will push the enemy, up to 2 or 3 cells max! Kinda like Masqueraider's coward mask.

And third idea: a small change on Time theft:

• 2 uses per turn
• 1st use: convert WP into AP
• 2nd use: convert AP into WP. Essentialy the idea is: "what if I need WP NOW but I'm out of it and I don't need 1 or 2 AP now?" So Time Theft allows you not only to grant yourself one more AP you need, but if you're in dire need of a WP, you can IMMEDIATLY sacrifice some AP to do something more important, like cast an emergency Tempus Fugit or walk one more hour on the Dial.

It would be great to be able to transform AP to WP in the current turn.This will really make xelor less addicted to skip turn with AP. Devs can even limit this possibility so that there is no abuse.

Granthese#6501|2021-07-13 22:28:13

.
And third idea: a small change on Time theft:

• 2 uses per turn
• 1st use: convert WP into AP
• 2nd use: convert AP into WP. Essentialy the idea is: "what if I need WP NOW but I'm out of it and I don't need 1 or 2 AP now?" So Time Theft allows you not only to grant yourself one more AP you need, but if you're in dire need of a WP, you can IMMEDIATLY sacrifice some AP to do something more important, like cast an emergency Tempus Fugit or walk one more hour on the Dial.

New idea for clock:
Cost 2 WP, no damage, modifiable range of 0-5.
Cast on self: converts 1 AP into 1 WP (and the spell wont cost you its original requirement), triggers Underhand.

Cast on Cog and Sinistro: triggers their effects. (Would be great if Sinistro did a little “cuckoo” when triggered xD)

Cast on enemy: triggers Underhand and Shriveling.

Cast on allies: triggers Underhand and Desynchronization.

Dear developers!
If you continue to ignore our attention to class problems after revamp, then at least fix the mistakes you made after revamping the Xelor class.
I reported these bugs and attached the logs, but still have not received.

• XELOR'S SPELL ERRORS WITH RANGE

error description: if a disconnect occurs due to an unstable connection, then upon returning to battle, many Xelor spells (Slow Down, Hand, Suspension) lose all Range throughout the battle. 
  

• XELOR'S CURRENT HOUR BUG

error description: the current hour does not move in some cases when using abilities that consume WP
. 

• XELOR DIAL DOES NOT WORK IN KOKO RICO

error description: Xelor cannot teleport to dial cells in Koko Rico 


I am especially annoyed by the first error, which does not allow playing, depriving you of the original settings. Slow Down becomes full close combat range, etc. 
These bugs ruin the gaming experience of people who have not left after Xelor revamp. 

Please. 

Got a few ideas regarding the passives and how to balance them:

Slowdown of timeial's Cooldown reduced by 1. Range in hour cells increased by 1, range in Bonus Hour increased by 2. Casting Gear on a time cell teleports the Xelor to it, Bonus Hour is turned off for the turn.  The biggest issue with this current passive is how easy is for the Xelor to be taken out of it's dial and 3 mobility spells become blocked outside of it, with only the costy and not very effective use of Summons and Gear when Simmetry and Tempus Fugit can transport you almost twice the lenght. The penalty of losing your Bonus Cell for the remain of the turn seems like a fair trade-off for this cheap emergency exit. Also reducing the cooldown of it is a must.


Course of Time:Enemies Teleported by the Xelor lose 1 AP. Allies and Xelor teleported gain 1 AP.  Giving the Xelor and it's allies a penalty for teleportation is simply ABSURD especialy when this revamp crippled the support capabilities Xelor once had.


Combat Mage:Armour Gain instead calculates by 4% of HP per use.  The amount of armour gained with "100% of your level" is LAUGHABLE at any level!

Specialized Mechanisms:Summons have their prices halved
Knowledge of the Past:Effect applied immediatly once passive is equiped, not when the fight starts.   I don't even know why this is a good idea having passives start their effect in the fight! It makes it so clunky to properly plan your build and set when you need a fight to start to see how it all works out! Plus that makes interaction with sublimations such as Controlling Space really harsh when this Sublimation would rarely fit any class better.

 

I would like to summarize, based on the changes in patch 1.73, and say that the new Xelor has several interesting concepts: the current hour, moving in the cells of the dial for WP and stealing action points from the time stream.

The current hour is an important part of Xelor's identity.

We can influence it by turning the bonus into damage for a bonus to willpower with the help of the dark dimension passive. Although this passive does not work together with Counterclockwise passive, which I believe needs to be improved. Xelor can teleport to the current hour at the start of turn if Xelor uses Clockmaking passive. Considering that moving in the cells of the dial for WP, not for MP,- this led to a unique situation where a class can have 1 MP or 2 MP, although in some dungeons this can be very dangerous.

Stealing action points from the time stream means that Xelor can take more with each turn, but we will also pay Wakfu for taking action points from the time stream. In the Rollback system, Xelor was rewarded for free by simply casting spells. I like the new concept, although we cannot influence the desired amount of theft of action points from the stream of time, if we did not do it consistently what makes us dependent on numbers of turn. 

However, removing the tick /tock system from the Xelor class made the identity less deep. Now tick /tock is just a buff/debuff. Previously, these conditions affected many of Xelor's spells, changing additional effects, which gave a sense of depth and variety. Now I just spam the distortion and it doesn't even matter if I took a tick /tock or not.

I don't support nerf Underhand spell. This spell had two effects - teleportation to near dial cell and a delayed push that can be activated. Xelor after the revamp is the same mobile as before, it can do more damage, but its support, positioning and mechanisms have become worse for me.

Cog is specific tool that shines in the team of the game. This is his advantage and disadvantage at the same time. But after the revamp, I have never seen Xelor that would do and play Cog build. Sinistro gives an action point to the enemy and we can summon 2 Sinistro with a passive, before revamp we could summon them much, much more. Sinistro before revamp remove action points and attacked enemies twice at the beginning of their turn and at the end. Sinistro nerf is undeserved, at least one could make sinistro peaceful, but useful in terms of cost-effectiveness ratio.

I like most of the changes in patch 1.73. I see that the developer has listened and changed the strange passive, for example the dial master passive, or the strange spell - Clock. I want to thank you for these changes and suggest thinking about how to come up with an alternative mechanic to Xelor besides spam distortion, to deepen the identity of this class.

I also ask [Iroko] or [Flatops] to close this topic, because in many passives and spells I got feedback in patch 1.73. I have nothing more to say to the developers.  Xelor is my first and favorite class. I saw everything that happened here from 2015 year.

Thanks for the positive changes. Hopefully over time we will be able to preserve the good moments, and not revamp class from scratch.