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Timing of Delayed Effects of Xelor are unuseable

By Thothus#6662 - MEMBER - April 23, 2021, 02:36:48

There are several spell effects by xelor with delayed timing that makes them unviable to take in the spell deck, I haven't used them at all ever since the release of revamped Xelor because they simply do not work with the needs of the Dungeon and the team.

Delayed effects that work well, or with a useable, controlled purpose:

  • Shrivelling
  • Clockmaking
  • Tick Tock
  • Tock Tick

Delayed effects that are unviable, do not work well, or do not set out to achieve the purpose of the effect because of the bad timing:
Start of Xelor's turn:
  • Premonition (takes too long)
  • Underhand (pointless for positioning by the time it triggers)
  • Sinistro (sinistro is long dead before it can serve its purpose)
  • Dial Master (Xelor is debuffed)
  • Desynchronisation (takes too long)

Start of Enemy's turn:
  • Clock (Bosses have invulnerability which Clock does not bypass, normal mobs do not need Clock to be killed easily)

End of Enemy's turn:
  • Sandglass (Enemy ends turn close to ally, Enemy ends turn away from other mobs)

Here are some alternatives that allow better timing of the spells, boosting their chances of actually being taken in the spell deck to be used.

End of Xelor's turn: Sinistro, Premonition, Underhand
If reason for the delay of the effect of these spells are too powerful to be on demand, then they are too weak to be used at their current timing. End of Xelor's turn allows the team to benefit from these spells even if the Xelor doesn't. Sinistro can grant AP to allies and hurt enemies with light damage before it dies from being sneezed at, and you have more control over preventing enemies from gaining AP because of Sinistro's position. Premonition grants armour earlier, and Underhand at least lets the Xelor position the enemy for allies, even if he cannot take advantage of the position himself during the turn.

Start of Enemy's turn: Sandglass
Basically turning it into a poison like Poisoned Wind or Shrivelling, since the enemy is more likely to be next to another enemy with the help of the Xelor/Ally's positioning, and less likely to be next to an Ally/Xelor. The Xelor also has more control over the damage by casting it on a surrounded ally that goes after him.

When Attacker targets the Xelor, after AP consumption, before damage and effect is applied: Premonition, Sandglass, Dial Master
Basically, by removing Premonition being casted on self, and instead only being applied on enemies, the spell is change to have three "charges" of armour granting that triggers when the Xelor is targetted. This boosts its useability in PvE, while in PvP enemies can still bypass it by using AoE spells. For Sandglass, this might give one last window to kill low health enemies before they get the chance to attack, and discourage attacks in PvP. Self-explanatory for Dial Master for attackers on an hour cell, giving more control for Allies and Xelor to choose not to be on hour cell when it triggers. 

After Enemy attacks an ally: Underhand, Desynchronisation
Breaks lock and makes enemy waste MP/reduce incoming melee damage as they need to close gap again. For Desync, gives earlier use of granted AP

End of Enemy's turn: Underhand
Messes up enemy's positioning and breaks lock for Ally's benefit BEFORE the start of Xelor's next turn.

Start of Ally's turn: Desynchronisation
For earlier use of granted AP

End of Round, before start of next turn: Clock
Increases likelihood that boss invulerability is gone, except for bosses like Hoodfella, Silmawhirly etc.

0 -6
Reactions 7
Score : 4307

Clock does actually bypass some boss invulnerabilities as it deals indirect damage
Tick tock isn't really a delayed effect since you get the buff before the debuff
Premonition could just trigger at the end of everyone's turn, I mean it's not like allies need armour on their turn anyway? The effect is fine already tho, imo
Attack trigered sandglass sounds fun, but for dial master it's literally how it used to work before they changed it, so I doubt they will revert it
I do actually like the idea of underhand triggering on the target's turn instead of the xelors

0 -4
Score : 7360

so funny. you were very active in the beta discord and didn't write anything like that. and now ... the train has left, it's too late to write and analyze something. the developers are confident in their delayed effects for the class. Reg already spoke at beta and he can write a whole dissertation on why the delayed effects of xelor are bad (especially push next turn). 
apparently the french players like what happened to the Xelor class. because they have silence there on FR forum about it. 
Does it make sense to write something in Xelor now if the developers do not pay attention and do not give any comments?  

10 -4
Score : 1984

Beta feedback I provided was on mechanism of Xelor spells on the basis of whether or not they thematically fit Xelor, how they compared to the old spells, and preliminary understanding of the spells as applied on mobs. The feedback is subject to further revision as testing continues to accumulate with real dungeoning. I was not and still am not a level 200 player, and have no intentions of grinding for non-level-200 gear which are not provided by the ecaflipus token machine in Beta. The experience of a Xelor of ANY LEVEL is important because the road towards level 200 encompass the MAJORITY of what Xelors experience, and will primarily be what new Xelors experience as well, and their feedback is just as important.

I don't see how Reg's opinions has anything to do with what I have to say? I did not reject his opinions, nor complain about them. I'm just continuing to offer my own perspective after the release of the revamp.

"The train has left, it's too late to write and analyze something. the developers are confident in their delayed effects for the class"

Foggernauts spells and passives continued to be tweak up until Feca revamp was released, same for Feca until Masqueraiders revamp was released, and Masqueraiders until Xelors were released. There's no reason to believe this can't continue up until we get the new Osamodas.

The purpose of my post is to continue to provide feedback that I hope will be heard, regardless of whether or not the developers actually listen or not. I do not understand the purpose of your reply? Why are you trying to discourage this? What do you hope to achieve by complaining that the developers do not pay attention?

5 -6
Score : 1984


9Nectum9|2021-04-23 18:30:45
everything has already been said. why repeat the obvious 100 times. 

As I recall, you and Reg would prefer there to be an on-demand push, or a push trigger. The contents of this post works with the spirit of intended delayed effect, only to pick a different timing of delay, of which the only mention in the beta discord I recall is to move Sinistro’s AP buffing timing. The contents of the post focus on a different aspect that can be improved on each time, and said without vitriol towards the developer, their vision of xelor, or their work ethic. You are shifting the goalpost to suit your needs of an argument.

9Nectum9|2021-04-23 18:58:53

just what's the point if there are no comments from the development team.
I and now it's too late. at least there was no comment that Xelor will receive more changes. 
after the last fix, there were three big topics on improving Xelor and silence. 
why waste time on tons of text if there is no feedback.
players have already said 100 times that the new xelor only works halfway. 

If I may quote Siu directly from the beta post:

"By satisfying, I mean that we also need to watch over the Xelor for weeks, months of playtests on real servers to have a complete and final opinion on the class.

Of course, there will necessarily be tweaks, and iterations to this class, in the future. It's the "usual" cycle of revamps and balancings, classes are to be continually balanced.

If the team updated a beta this week or last week, we wouldn't have benefited a lot from it."

The beta no longer served its purposes, because we were making a lot of suggestions on the direction we want from Xelor, which the team no longer wishes to address, rather they want playtesting results on the Xelor that they have designed.

This means that feedback after the revamp hit the live servers is equally important. Reg thinks the developers need to be more transparent about their intentions, otherwise feedback will be pointless. I agree that intentions need to be transparent, but I don't agree that feedback at this point in time serves no purpose.

That is the point of this thread. The "strike while the iron is hot" timeframe has not expired yet.

YOUR argument was that everything has been said already... which I also don't agree, because every thread made so far was analysing a different aspect of the revamped Xelor with little overlap. The developer's silence is irrelevant - these aspects of Xelor that needs improving still needs to be said, and whether or not they adopt it is up to them, not me. 
2 -3
Score : 7360
  • it is not only mine and his needs. I can name a lot of players who need a push in the current turn
  • dial still needs a buff as Xelor survivability too
  • summons "weird" to say the least
  • clock and other delayed effects also need revision
just what's the point if there are no comments from the development team.
I attach Reg words
it was important to talk about it during testing. everyone was talking about different things, and now it's too late. at least there was no comment that Xelor will receive more changes. 
after the last fix, there were three big topics on improving Xelor and silence. 
why waste time on tons of text if there is no feedback.
players have already said 100 times that the new xelor only works halfway. 
6 -2
Score : 7360

ok, sorry, but I meant something completely different. that a huge amount of text is meaningless without feedback. because we can think of a million improvements, but why waste so much effort without feedback.
I would really like to know at least some news about the opinion of the developers about the state of Xelor now. as I said in another post there are a lot of cool things they came up with. but there are also sharp corners that can be made less sharp. I respect their work and time and I have an active booster, which means that I hope for positive changes and feedback.
sorry if it seemed harsh. I didn't mean it

4 -1
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