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A few unviable Revamped Xelor passives

By Thothus#6662 - MEMBER - March 23, 2021, 13:43:46
AnkaTracker

There are some passives that no sane Xelor or farming Xelor would pick if they want an agreeable experience in combat-

Momentary Permutation- Similar to Escapist on Rogue, the resistance to Dial is nice, but the teleport wrecks havoc. Seems like something you use once in the beginning of the battle to retreat to safety after turn 1 before turn 2, then destroy it turn 2 with Gear because all the enemies are already crowded around the dial by turn 2, meaning your next swap with the dial at the end of turn 2 will put you in the midst of enemies.

Specialised Mechanisms- Explodoll, but on non-mobile mechanisms, meaning you can't move them closer to enemies to explode them. Dials can be destroyed from ranged enemies and you only get to put one down. Sinistroes you do not want anywhere near your enemies. Cogs have a 2 cell range when teleported to damage, but this explosion from the passive is only 1 cell. After you swap with cog once to put it in the midst of enemies, you have to destroy it by means other than Gear, which means wasting more AP that you could have used on attacking the enemy directly. The damage isn't particularly good either? Maybe if it the passive also applies -200 res to your summons so they can be killed with Hand more easily.

Remanence- Sinistroes have a 2(!) turn cooldown, what's the point of having 1 more 2 turns later when your first is likely already dead? Cogs cost 4(!) AP and has a 1 cast per turn, meaning you have to plan your mechanisms with razor sharp intuition to use them well if you play with 2 of them. You can't summon 2 dials either. The benefits of no LoS and +1 summon to each are too fringe to justify using this over +% damage inflicted passives

Dark Dimension- Mentioned in another thread, it does not work well with Hammhour and Paradox+ Course of time, due to the linear requirement of those two spells, leaving you with desync (2 cast per turn) and slow down (2 cast per target)

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Not completely nonviable, but unnecessarily penalising passives:

Violent Omens- reduction of 1MP seems completely slapped on and harsh given that you already need to spend MP to position yourself within the designated range and this is taking up 1 passive slot.

Deja Vu- 4WP is quite harsh, again considering that this is already taking up a passive slot. It feels pretty mild though, all things considered.

Memory-Given the shift of attention away from Dial, this reversion to use of Dial to move seems out-of place and because the removal is rounded up, not rounded down, you lose more MP with odd MP than with even MP,  and you need to take 2 MP relic/epics along with Timeliness to counteract the loss of MP. Remember, MP regains to max per turn, while WP regains only by 1 per turn, so the longer the battle goes that you don't use the dial to move large distances, the more MP you "lose out" on over the course of the fight compared to if you had not taken the passive.

6 0
First Ankama intervention

Hello,

Following this thread's feedback as well as the beta etc. threads, I'll work on improving a few passives for the next hotfix.

Have a good day,

Siu.

See message in context
Reactions 23
Score : 7372

Do you think THIS


is a cool passive? It's soooo impractical to say the least ... no team will play around xelor dial. It is not profitable for a panda to run across the entire map in order to place mobs on the dial cells. Plus xelor loses damage. 
The last beta Dial Master was better.
Dial Master
  • 15% DI on targets that are standing on an hour cell
  • Dial gains 100 Resist


 

Some players wrote that they have a bug with Memory passive. But 6 WP is a nice bonus! The problem here is different, dial needs more survivability. I would like to achieve this through passives, then the penalty on movement points will not be so severe, because Xelor will be sure that his dial will not die quickly and he can safely use WP to move.
Dark Dimension nice passive. I can't stop paying attention to this, but it makes the class deeper. that we have not just the mechanics of the current hour, but WE CAN INFLUENCE to the current hour. We can trade the damage bonus for willpower. We can strengthen the current hour and teleport to it automatically. The problem is different here. Dial blocks visibility without passive Remanence and the hammer is linear. 
For the rest, I agree. Remanence good. Problem with specialized mechanism. As for the summons, need to either reduce their cost or allow players to influence the effects summons. For example, sinistro, which will take away resists and an action point (through passive). 
Tick and tock must be combined or allow players to also influence the control of these conditions. 
 
8 -2
Score : 4305

You can just put one corner of the dial around a tank to give him a 15% damage reduction from melee mobs

0 -3
Score : 4305

Honestly Clockmaking isn't that great of a passive either, it's interesting but I don't see it being great in any build

3 -11
Score : 937

it is one of those passives that provides interesting gameplay. automatic teleportation to the current hour. what's wrong with you???

9 -5
Score : 7649

I argue in defense of specialized mechanism, having my Dial no longer block line of sight was heaven-sent to me.

0 0
Score : 7372
  • you are inaccurate and protect another passive. what allows dial NOT to block visibility is NOT a specialized mechanism. Remanence is GOOD passive.

 
but specialized mechanism NOT
8 0

Hello,

Following this thread's feedback as well as the beta etc. threads, I'll work on improving a few passives for the next hotfix.

Have a good day,

Siu.

Score : 723

Could Xelor retain the tick-tock gauge by the lower bar as it always was, lot of passives play with odd and even turns still.
Might as well be seen by sniping in the status effect bar on the top right or with turn number, but this'd ease quick check while in play, retaining bit of old if anything.

Going still by the philosophy if you want to introduce passives that are in line with say Darkest Dungeon trinkets, tit for tat, + for - it should be for all classes at once, not hitting Xelor exclusively first, one of the classes that didn't have proper update for almost 10 years, but as if one opinion matters.

Ctrl skill also isn't utilized at all, it should give some bonus to summons be it hp, res, or even no +ap to enemy after certain threshold.

1 0
Score : 4305

Actually fogger and rogue also already has the +/- passives.
The rest of he classes are getting them after the osa rework

3 -4
Score : -17

I see nothing on slowdown of time, do people actually LIKE this passive?

If so... Why? What purpose does it serve other than to make playing the game harder? It uses a passive slot, it limits you more than it helps you, It's bonus is made into a negative by the very negative used to balance it... just why?

Why does this passive exist?

0 0
Score : 1986

For fairness's sake, I haven't pass judgments on passives I don't use at all, like Dial Master and Slowdown of Time, which depends on the dungeon and your build.

For example, I can imagine Slowdown of Time being good for UB maps like mamagrog and moowolf to gain backstab then escape to safety after a skirmish, but because this is not based on real dungeon experience, it's not very apparent whether it has niche use compared to more global passives.

Whereas for things like Specialised Mechanisms it is very apparently how limited its use is in combat even when testing on bag of potatoes, and when making a spell deck with competing passives that you want to take.

0 0
Score : 331

Here's my couple of passives I feel -NEED- to change, in order:

  1. Dial Master: It makes enemies on the hour cell do less damage but they also take less damage, getting the enemy to attack while standing on an hour cell is already pretty luck based when it comes to PvE and in PvP the enemy can just move out of the hour cell, attack the Xelor then get IN an hour cell to defend himself from the Xelor and forcing us to use extra AP to remove them from there, I don't see this as helpful in any way.
  2. Portent: I still feeld like 15% extra damage is too much, maybe just lower to 10%?
  3. Dark Dimension: I feel like no one would trade +30% damage on the current hour for a +30FoW since +30% damage is way more useful and consistent than a +30FoW which only increases the chance of removing or protecting against AP/MP reductions.
  4. Slowdown of Time: The passive itself is actually kinda great but it gets massively crippled by the downside which makes it unusable since all the enemy need to do is destroy the Dial and there you go, a useless Xelor.
  5. Remanence: No downside but just boring passive with nothing great enough to consider spending a passive slot in it, current Sinistro and Cog aren't all that great to justify wasting an extra of them on the field, an easy fix for this would be to just make Sinistro and Cog better.
  6. Specialized Mechanism: Same criticism as Remanence, also I think just dealing area damage when destroyed isn't that great of a boost to spend a passive slot on.
  7. Combat Mage: Who is out there making tank Xelors?! No one... I think the biggest problem here is the requirement that the AP removal has to happen in CLOSE COMBAT.
  8. Assimilation: Good passive boost but the negative is a little too crippling, a -6WP total makes it very difficult to get plays going unless you're constantly killing things, maybe just take it down a little.

But that's just me
3 0
Score : 1986

Two counterpoints:  Slowdown of Time- When the Dial is not on the field, the Xelor can still cast elemental spells as normal. When the Dial is on the field and you are off the hour cells, you have very little options except to Gear the dial so that you can cast spells again. The downside is still heavily crippling I agree, just that there are ways to circumvent it if it is not changed either.

Combat Mage: It gives ranged Xelors some easy 1AP armour by casting Slowdown on themselves, and prevents AP loss when swapping with targets while you have Course of Time equipped, so it has some use for surviveability, while still letting Xelors do normal AP removal at range. I am happy with this passive.

I agree with the points on Dial Master, Assimilation and Dark Dimensions, and have mentioned my thoughts on the other passives.

1 -1
Score : 11186

To reply all the Discord DMs request that I post my feedback here, as well as those who are planning to, unless there are any major mechanic changes, I believe all the key feedbacks & suggestions regarding current iteration of 1.71 Xelor has already been said on Beta Forum.

Siu mentioned above he'll be following all relevant 1.71 Xelor feedback threads, including this thread, and those in beta.

Here's to hoping / w \.

4 0
Score : 57

What about a new passive oriented to Mechanism?

- Buffing Cog's damage (Base or final damage, or even having base damage increased per swap made in the same turn)
- Xelor inmune to self harming with Cog (Mele-Brutality Build? :O)

The Cog combo should look like this:

https://youtu.be/hmEY2uCxGKA

This certainly could be an interesting gameplay, but need some extra love.

By the way. the biggest Xelor problem is that his gameplay is too slow compared with the actual metagame (i.e. Every class is doing high damage at 2nd turn-- Except Steamer and Xelor).

Is there any way we can improve their game speed? Regular PvM Combats aren't lasting more than 3 turns, and the Xelor is not actually be able to have a high participation on short combats.

3 0
Score : 1986
Clockmaking: This is applying a 10% damage inflicted penalty even when the dial is not summoned, or when it is summoned but you are not on an hour cell. Can this be buffed so that the malus only applies when you are on an hour cell that is not the current hour?
0 0
Score : 34

At this point I think we should ask for a entire rework of that passive and most of the xelor ones.

0 0
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