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Class Revamp 2020 - Xelor

By [Ankama]WAKFU - ADMINISTRATOR - December 13, 2019, 16:00:00
Reactions 176
Score : 1094

They destroyed my Feca..... May god have mercy on your souls...... Your time will come eventually

4 -2
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Score : 2100

We've already had at least one Xelorpocalypse. After that whole "we don't like this, but we're releasing it anyway" crap with Feca... yeah, I think they will just delete Xelors at this point.

1 0
Score : 5359

I made a list of points that I feel Ankama NEEDS to address or else Xelors will be outright unplayable if they don't take them in consideration but still give us passives with negatives.. It came to me after seeing the atrocities committed to the Feca.. My partner that played Feca for nearly 5 years finally hang the towel and I just thought "Oh sh*t.. That can be me soon.." so I feel like I need to point these ASAP!

  • Dial
The Dial is the bread and butter of the Xelor and it's biggest weakness, destroy a Xelor's Dial and you destroyed his damage, mobility, range and ability to teleport enemies and allies, during early to mid-game  it's not really much of an issue but in end-game there are mobs that can destroy it in the very first turn, having the Dial only take 30% of the Xelor's HP while having his resistance -50 on a class that is already quite squishy is bound to be a terrible idea.. Ankama needs to either make the Dial bulkier or allow us to re-cast it more often.
  • AP/Damage ratio
Most Xelor spells are taken in consideration things like Rollback, because of that most spells have just GARBAGE AP/Damage ratio, Temporal Burn being the biggest offender being just 21 at Lv200 (the average is 25) making it the weakest 1, 2 and 3AP spell in the game, so why do Xelors use it? Well, simply because there's no better option.. What are we going to use? Line of Fire?! Yeah.. Right.. At least this one combo with Aging.. The spell that angers me the most when it comes to damage is Clock, this spell costs 5AP but does the same damage as a 4AP spell, just.. Oof.. Before it used to remove -2AP so it was justified but Ankama just nerfed the amount without compensating in any way so.. Yeah.. This needs to be adjusted properly, either increase it or give it an extra effect to compensate.
  • Unusable Spells
Most spells of the Xelor are outright unusable just because they aren't worth it, most Air spells are just used as support like Aging, Tempus Fugit and Underhand, only 3 Fire Spells are usable, Hydrant is just dumb since it takes CC Mastery and Line of Fire is just.. Why? The only good thing about it is the combo with Distortion that can also be achieved with Time Control, a spell that cost 4 times less.. As for Water most are useful except Sinistro which is just beyond useless, it does barely any damage and very rarely remove AP.. That cements Xelors as always being Fire/Water, Ankama should create some fun combos for both Tick and Tock for all spells so we don't just spam the same combos over and over and actually think about which combos would be better for each situation.
  • Outdated Mechanics
We all already heard a BILLION times about Hand and Temporal Burn removing Initiative basically being useless, the mechanic has been outdated ever since the Initiative Revamp almost a decade ago (if not) but one that is not well spoken is the Force of Will system that made removing AP quite difficult, if you notice, most classes that have been fiddled with after this system was in place have skills that remove -3 or more AP/MP, Xelors however still have Clock removing 1AP, Frostbite (if used Time Control on Tock) can also only remove 1AP and Hourglass, the best one, can only remove 2AP and it can also remove the Xelor's own AP too, so because of how this new system works, none of these spells are efficient at removing AP, something that should had been the Xelor's specialty. The AP removal potential of these spells need to be reevaluated.
  • A luck based Damage Dealer
Most damage dealers rely on some sort of gimmick to deal damage, Srams do backstab and have high criticals, Iops build Power and can get high criticals by also having Block and Foggers can always use their strongest element to hit the weakest resistance, Xelors rely on Rollback and Criticals, two luck based mechanics, to begin with Xelors don't have any way to increase their own criticals despite being their best option and Rollbacks can be very random, depending of how things go, if you get very unlucky, you're the WORST damage dealer of the entire game, one thing are Ecaflips since being lucky is their main mechanic but when I think Xelors I don't think about a guy betting everything on 20 Red.. Maybe Ankama should give them a buff based on Rollbacks as well, like getting more criticals depending of how much Rollback you use, like, if you use just a small amount you get 15% extra criticals while getting a full 6 Rollback don't give you any to compensate you having high AP(?), dunno..

Sorry for the wall of text but this NEEDS to be said, please Ankama, I am begging you, don't pull a Feca on the Xelor, PLEASE!!
7 0
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Score : 3900

I agree, rollback either has to be 1 AP every x AP used so it's not random or just flat changed to something else, it's both annoying to have RNG mechanics as well as annyoing to keep thrack of the vale changing mid-turn so you don't waste AP.

For dial, yeah it's very strong, if they decide to nerf it they definitely have to buff mobility elsewhere (or something).

The rest I completely agree
Also our passives generally just suck, I can't wait to have more then 3 passives to pick from

1 -3
Score : 4180

So this recently came to mind as I was running a dungeon:

  • Xelor has zero ability to get past armor outside of raw damage. Most damage dealer classes have at least one spell that targets armor and with Osamosa monsters being able to very easily gain armor, I think this is something that NEEDS to be in whatever the future version of the class looks like.
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Score : 1664

Xelor also has one of the lowest Damage/AP ratio, and it's very dependent on Rollback RNG to make up for the below average Damage/AP, just to even stay on par in total damage output compared to other Range DD.

Xelor also has next to no Survivability in terms of Self Heal or Armor, outside from a pathetic 5% max hp self heal, that not only is locked behind a heavy condition to trigger, and can easily be countered by enemy with high Willpower, it's also only unlocked at Lv.170, meaning there's ZERO way for Xelor to sustain before that. Meanwhile other damage class like Sram, Cra, Masqueraider just to name a few can easily full heal from 1% to 100% HP in a single turn even at Lv.80. Let's not forget that you need to waste a passive slot on Xelor just to even heal, unlike every other class who's self heal is baked directly into their spells. It's funny how some people still wants this aspect, the only means for Xelor to sustain nerfed.

Currently, Xelor's only primary way to stay alive is by kiting, Dial is already weak as it is, being one turn by mobs for any content above Lv.171. Mobility is average compared to class like Cra, who can easily Stab and -MP enemy, steal MP, self Resist Buff and kite with beacon, Eliotrope, who kiting capability is top tier, and indestructible portal. Again, It's funny how some people still wants the Xelor's mobility nerfed.

Every class should have their ups and down, they can't have everything that's for sure, if Xelor can barely self heal to sustain, at least let it keep it's mobility. I seriously hope the Revamp will finally make Xelor unique in it's own way, accurate the lore. Cuz the way it is now, is just average. In the case of PvM, it simply makes more sense to choose Range DD like Fogger, Cra, Elio, Hupper due to their abundant utility unique to their class that's beneficial to team play, while still capable to dishing out more consistent and higher damage than Xelor could when given the same tier of gears. In Xelor's case, it feels like majority of the Utility spells are just there to compensate Xelor's lack luster spells & mechanics to keep them on par to other DDs in combat performance, rather than creating something that's beneficial in team tactical play.

15 -7
Score : 187

Okey i just dont get it why instead improving classes you trying to complete make them unplayable...
Look at oug who is way more mobility and way higher damage. And u trying to nerf simple balanced ability of xelor, in mine opinion your balance team should go back to university to learn game dev. Because what I seeing at this point they don’t know what they are doing at all

0 -7
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Score : 118

Despite not knowing how to write properly and your arguments being invalid, balancing is not game dev but game design.
Have a great day.

5 -2
Score : -21

I have been playing xelor ever since i started, and what i can say is this.

  1. Dial is strong at lower levels, which is sort of balanced by the lack of sustain (not really)
  2. The AP removal is utterly useless outside of PvP, and in PvP it MUST be the main goal for you to get any mileage from it.
  3. The -Initiative is useless for reasons previously laid out clear.
  4. The sustain is garbage if you can't remove AP perfectly, and it being only unlocked at Lvl 170 is just lemon juice on the papercut. (thank you: Billy Crystal!)
  5. Temporal Freeze doesn't do enough damage to try to trigger it, better to ignore it all together
  6. mobility options are still limited, and you need to dedicate you entire turn to move any decent distance, even compared to classes without that don't advertise this as a main feature it is lackluster.
  7. [*](please don't be angry) I like the idea that moving on the dial would not be moving per se, but instead a teleport, which would make for a free escape from locking situations. BUT! if you still get locked, it is a terrible change and would probably drop the class altogether for a better one.
    (it's Cra, HAVE YOU SEEN THAT MP REMOVAL?)
  8. Distortion is a very fun spell, I have been running air/water for a while, and i have enjoyed it a lot, easily one of the better damage spells in my opinion.
  9. temporal burn's adjustible AP cost is not the best idea, it completely sidesteps a very useful passive, and sublimation, Save.

That is all
1 -1
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Score : 3900

8. I mean temporal burn only takes up to 3 AP, you you can just use it at 5 AP to save 2.
7. As for distortion, I dislike it becuse you get  damage bonus for triggering it immediatly, which just makes it a glorified combo spell insted of delayed damage. Good damage tho.
5. Sure temporal freeing isn't super strong, but it sure beats aging on a tock turn

0 -4
Score : 2824

Hmm, if i were to change anything, id remove the damage bonus from Dial, and make the air branch more Dial-centric. (Maybe add a passive that increases Air spell damage when on the Dial, or makes the xelor bulkier, while swapping melee and distance dmg while on the dial to not punish such an in-your-face playstyle)
I'd first make the -ap/-init bonus dmg from Aging be its own active spell, with damage based on element associated (ap=water, init=fire)
Underhand I feel with all its Mechanics is a perfect spell.
Xelor Punishment I feel the same about.
Aging I would remove the -ap/-init interaction, make the spell deal additional damage(Or heal the xelor a portion of damage dealt) when the xelor is on the enhanced hour cell. And make it when used to target the dial, moves the enhanced hour cell to the next hour. 
Distortion I would change entirely, too. I'd make it a 4-5 AP single target spell with decent damage,  if the target is on an hour cell, teleport to the opposite hour of the dial. If that hour cell is occupied, deal additional non-reducible damage.
Tempus Fugit is great utility,  but id rather remove the portal tiles and replace it with the option to swap places with the dial when you target it. (At the cost of +1WP) To add some interesting mobility options and offer a not-so-free dial repositioning option. I understand itd be very uncommon to be used this way, but could still prove to be really nice to have.
 

 

cody5|2020-10-23 15:31:09
I mean the distortion idea is cool, but I'm quite aginst removing the only delayed damage mechanic, as delayed effects/triggers the most obvious mechanic for a time mage class.

Well, I could post my overall idea for xelors, where I would have the delayed effect/trigger be how Temporal Freeze/Temporal Burn(to replace the -init) and you would choose to convert the added stacks to become either -ap/-init or damage after you acquired the stacks you wanted. I figure this makes the mechanics easier to  manage while also keeping the delayed effect for time mages (and you get it on two whole mechanics instead of just one spell)
1 -3
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Score : 3900

I mean the distortion idea is cool, but I'm quite aginst removing the only delayed damage mechanic, as delayed effects/triggers the most obvious mechanic for a time mage class.

1 -3
Score : 5318

Siu! 
maybe xelor doesn't need revamp?
Revamp - give new and improved form, structure, or appearance to. This is something global. Aren't the current possibilities already perfect? Or is the current form of the class too weak? It might be better to make revive i.e. add new passives to adapt for the new passives system?
I have been playing this class for many years and when there was a large-scale update of all classes (spell desk update), xelor received a well-developed archetype and variability.
The core of this class is now time manipulation which means in the language of the game manipulation with AP. Thus, taking AP we slow down the enemy in time, and if we give ourselves an AP, we accelerate ourselves in time.
Xelor has three important gameplay components that relate to its current archetype.

I think the virtue of this class is the great synergy and variability.
Time manipulation
1)
2) - 2 MP to xelor and + 2 AP to all who stands on the clock cells
so we have + 5 AP max to 1 character 
next
slowing down the enemy in time
1)
2)
let's look at the variability 
it works with every element
1) Push
2) Activation of one effect by different elements
Let's talk about positioning. 
1) Underhand 3 AP + effect activation cost Line of Fire (4 AP) or Time Control (1 AP) or Aging (2 AP)
for 1 sell for every Underhand. 

Sram can push by 4 cells for 2 AP
2) Teleporting an enemy or ally is also not cheap (5 AP) 
previously there were no restrictions on visibility. now 7 cells maximum
3) Againts the cloak (2ap and 3 turn cooldown) - a very effective ability that allows you to return yourself or the enemy to the place where it started the turn.
4) Dial - I liked your idea about the current hour mechanic is changing: It will move from hour to hour after each time the xelor moves on the Dial and will provide a significant bonus when the xelor is on it. But where xelor will spend and needed MP if we will use WP for move in dial sell? 
continuing the theme of synergy and variability (in the damage theme)
1) 
= more dmg
2) 
Also, xelor has effects delayed in time (for next turn) if the player does not want to activate them in the current turn. 

My suggestion is to add several such effects to the elemental spells and also one-two passives for it, so that, for example, it would be profitable to activate the effect is not now (in TICK or TOCK). 
what else does xelor have and what could be improved?
1) more interactions with the dial (now there are 3-4 interactions (4 is to heal the dial, but it's useless))
2) Improve summons builds through new passives 
Now 
Sinistro - attacks at the end of the turn and at the beginning of the turn and can pick up 1 ap.
Hydrand - attacks only at the end of the turn and gives conditions for synergy with another fire ability.
You can then add to the elemental spell more opportunities to interact with xelor s mechanisms. 
I showed by examples that the current class is very variable and its elemental spells have synergy (even there is an opportunity to play only for tick/tock). Many players just don't want xelor to be a simple class. Xelor now has not the cheapest positioning and weak survivability.
Hopefully you have moved the changes for this class to give it more attention on your side. But I doubt a revamp is needed. It could be just revive with some new passives.
 Thanks. 
 
4 -2
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Score : 3900

Oh don't even joke about line of fire being used to trigger states.
Sure the core of the class (ap manipultion, delayed effects, summons, ticktock) is good, but everything else could use a lot of simplification.

0 -1
Score : 1664

I'm going to post this here. This was from long ago during Dyz era, as some point it was hidden from the Public.
To clarify what the forgotten nerfs Xelor had since it's ONLY revamp back in 2015, on top of other numerous direct & indirect nerfs Xelor had the last 5 years.

Once Upon A Time, for those who are too young to remember,

- Sandglass did not have cast Limits. Allowing Xelor to stack Time Freeze (Delayed Damage) for a big Burst. Same goes for Distortion Pre Spell Deck system.

- Xelor used to be able to buff AP on Self/Ally from Range, not Restricted to Dial. At the cost of 1MP for 1AP, limited to 2AP per Target. A nice way to burn remaining MP to Buff Ally, or Self to take advantage of Save Passive & Sublimation.

- Dial used to be Charge base, not tied to Xelor's HP and Resist. It scales well with Level, and doesn't die instantly from a single Hit. Denier might think Dial is fine if not tanky, clearly they have not play Xelor beyond 200+ Content. It's way too common to have dial, barely surviving the turn it was summoned.

- Dial used to be recastable every turn, since 1/3 of Xelor's Mechanics are tied to Dial. Teleportation, Damage, Repositioning & Mobility. Pair a Dead Dial & Limited Spell Deck Slots, you've basically render 1/3 of Xelor arsenal next to useless.

- Xelor used to be able to store unused AP in dial using Timekeeper Spell, 1AP for 1AP. Instead, now it just barely Heals the dial to justify it's 2AP cost per cast.

- Rollback used to trigger per AP used, instead of per Spell cast. Meaning Xelor once had a better CHANCE to compensate their LOW Base damage on Spell via Rollback, just to be on par to other Damage Dealers.
CHANCE, yes, chance, Xelor only has a chance based system to be At Least as good as other Damage Dealer.
LOW is an understatement, Xelor has the Lowest Damage/AP ratio among all Damage Dealers, that is a fact.

- Teleportation was Nerfed from no Limit to 6 Cell, which was later slightly bump to 7 Cell. Once a positioning class, while not as good as Panda, but still functionable as an alternative, completely butchered, when paired to a Squishy Dial, and 2 Turn Cooldown. Might as well hide the Positioning Role from the Xelor Class Encyclopedia.

 
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Score : 1627

Can we please finally have Temporal Burn & Tempus Fugit consume 100% of Temporal Freeze? and at 33.33% per AP?

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Score : 3900

I doubt they wil keep temporal freezing in the rework

0 -1
Score : 8917

I noticed no one ever mention this anywhere on the thread,

Please fix self-cast bug that has plague Xelor while being carried by Panda, the bug was never fix for the last 5 years, meanwhile self-cast on other class works just fine
- Timekeeper for Rollback
- Desync for switching between Tick & Tock

Also, we need Tempus Bubble... O wO

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