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Class Revamp 2020 - Xelor

By [Ankama]WAKFU - ADMINISTRATOR - December 13, 2019, 16:00:00
DevTracker AnkaTracker
Reactions 86

 

VoidSettler|2019-12-17 13:59:06
As for the AP drain mechanic - I personally don't believe in this mechanic working anymore in Wakfu
 

Hello,

I took some time to check if the game really was in the state you describe. We know it has some downsides such as the lack of visibility and feedback, but we believe it is part of the game to know the AP costs of your enemies to time your AP debuffs accordingly.

I searched for every standard monster and boss in the game, so it's mainly your typical families and bosses, archmonsters, quest monsters... I found 570 monsters (there are a lot more monsters in the game acting as NPCs etc, let's just say these are the "main" ones).

It depends of a lot of things, so the following list was a little tricky to make because of the cooldowns and spell conditions, and because a lot of monsters can gain APs in fight. However, we think it could give us some global idea about what it could look like.

And so, here we are :

356 monsters can't use all their spells if they lack just 1 AP.
43 monsters can't use all their spells if they lack 2 AP.
44 monsters can't use all their spells if they lack 3 AP.
24 monsters can't use all their spells if they lack 4 AP.

Only 51 monsters require more than a 7 AP loss to be able to cast one less spell. In this 51 monsters list, there are 17 "quest" monsters who have a specific gameplay, which would leave 34 "normal" monsters (6% of the total) being very hard, almost impossible to influence with AP losses.

They might get some more polishing in the future.

Here's my analysis :
A lot of monsters have "X use per turn" spells. It is made so that monsters don't destroy solo characters, and scale a little against multiple enemies (because they can use more spells). It also rewards your positioning.
For example, White Gobbly can use White Slobber once per target. It's a 3 AP spell and he has 6 AP. Removing him 1 AP can prevent a second cast of White Slobber.
Most of the times you want to tank it with your character so that it doesn't even get the chance to hit anyone else. If you lock the monster, since White Gobbly can only hit one enemy anyway, any AP loss under 4 won't have any impact, which is why you often think of it as inefficient.

Thank you all very much for your feedback on our proposals, I will react on your feedbacks about Xelor and everything else on the AnkamaLive stream tonight. There will be a written retranscription if you're not available to watch it.

Siu.
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Score : 5197

I guess the usual problem is that if a gobbly is locked, he will only use it on the first player, then either end turn cause he can't reach another player or dodge, loosing 1 AP and not attacking again anyway.

But yeah, I think the real problem is lack of clarity, an attack that didn't happen is hard to appreciate.
Maybe monsters could use a confused emoji when they don't have enough AP to do an attack? Like they current use angry if you kill their ally or impressed if you dodge their lock.

7 -2
Score : -2404

Xelor must be a class to change player turns of combat by sacrificing huge ap to remove ap from opponents. 
At sametime ,a class to change ally positon by mp buff them by stealing from another target.
Xelor's attack must be indirect mostly, kinds of  time aging (air), gear rust(water) or explodes in space time (fire).
 
At this point, Xelor will be a time bender  ^^.

0 -2
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Score : 29

Just to give a beginners perspective (especially since "which is quite the opposite of what you might expect when creating a Xelor." was mentioned in the DevBlog).

Having high mobility is not unexpected to me for a character that can manipulate time. The Dial also seemed to be an integral class mechanic to me, so I don't see why it's a bad thing if I use it all the time/depend on it?
To me it's just a resource/tool that I need to manage and protect in order to reap it's rewards. If the Dev team feels it's too strong, I'd suggest looking at other ways to balance it, but keep it as a main mechanic for the class. 
In MMO's in general, I tend to enjoy classes that are support DPS; something that does damage, but can also aid in buffs/debuffs or even healing. So I quite like this aspect of the Xelor, being able to dish out damage while also aiding allys with AP or other benefits. So I hope that get's preserved in the revamp. 

Again, I'm still new so maybe this isn't feasible, but maybe the Dial movement could just cost 2 MP instead of one or something? I don't really like the idea of it's movement getting tied to another resource, unless you were to create a resource specific to the Dial perhaps?

I think the idea of Tick and Tock are cool, though they could probably use something to make them more impactful. From what I hear, the Initiative reduction effect is pretty worthless?

2 0
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Score : 2888

I too love some supportive DPSs, and I miss when Huppermage could heal and had an easier time teleporting around.

1 0
Score : -2404

why low level gobly casts a spell 3 ap? you should ask yourself and Maybe you should remove ap stealing by pushing. there are enough spell to steal ap in classes and same class can push to steal.
Mp steal or resist break or incure works better instead of ap steal..Look rogue steals "no ap no resist no positioning"  @siu. Oh forgot Bombs are OP not to critic. meh.

0 0
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Hello,

There was a Live on the 18/12. We wanted to focus on your feedbacks and give your some answers, as well as giving some more information on our vision.

Xelor


The damage capabilities of the class should stay very good, although it will need to use more spells. Xelor is using the same few repetitive spell sequences at the moment. It will probably have some orientation where it can deal additional damage for each AP its target has lost. That way, we can have a synergy with the own AP removal mechanic of the class, and with any ally that can remove APs as well.

I hope it will give you more insight into what we want to do. You will still be able to play in a simple and efficient manner, but taking advantage of the Xelor’s defining mechanics will require a little proficiency.



You can find the whole summary of what we said during the live, as well as a link to the english part of the live here : Click here

Thanks a lot for your feedbacks,

Siu.
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Score : 2888

" although it will need to use more spells."

Uuuh, excuse me? MORE SPELLS? Aside from casting the Dial and Devotion for extra AP, you have:
Aging+Hand/temporal Burn with a probability of Rollback to use temporal burn again, next turn it's Clock+Hand/Burn but you can also use Aging before Clock and once again Rollback to deal more dmg, not to mention there is a nice mechanic with Hydrants+Dust and Temporal Insanity+Aging, not counting when you need to use Underhand to push or teleport and Tempus Fugit as well. And the utility spells, there are so many! Against the Clock, Mumification, Timekeeper, Desynchronization... This class basicaly allows 3 different mechanics with all 3 elements. Please do NOT change it's mechanic!

I also have a Huppermage, Ecaflip and Foggernaut, but Xelor is definitely one of the DPSs that uses the widest variety of spells and with the biggest limitation that is the tick/tock mechanic to force you to adopt different combos if you want to keep burst dmg. While some other classes either have repetitive combos (Huppermage, Iop...) or no combo at all, just whichever spell you want (Eniripsa, Ecaflip, Foggernaut...) or just stacking to your heart's content (Pandawa, Sram, Marqueraider...), Xelor is the only one adopting something actualy engaging and requiring a minimun of reading of the spells page.

5 0
Score : 6695

 

[Ankama]WAKFU-Prod|2019-12-17 16:05:59

356 monsters can't use all their spells if they lack just 1 AP.
43 monsters can't use all their spells if they lack 2 AP.
44 monsters can't use all their spells if they lack 3 AP.
24 monsters can't use all their spells if they lack 4 AP.

Only 51 monsters require more than a 7 AP loss to be able to cast one less spell. In this 51 monsters list, there are 17 "quest" monsters who have a specific gameplay, which would leave 34 "normal" monsters (6% of the total) being very hard, almost impossible to influence with AP losses.

They might get some more polishing in the future.

Siu.



Here's my take on the matter.
  1. Monsters who can't use all their spells if they lack 3AP and lower, often dies before the positive effect of AP removal can be felt, they're usually early to mid game grindable content where each match barely last a few turns.
  2. In the case of late game where AP removal truly matters, where each match lasting easily 20~100+ Turns, often the monster have high base FoW that easily overpowered even the best / most well geared Xelor, barely removing a couple AP, let alone 4~7 AP.
  3. Even for those Monster who can't use all their spells if they lack 3AP or less, they can easily gain FoW during Higher Stasis Dungeon settings, which ALWAYS overpower the amount a max geared Xelor can gain for that particular Level Category.

Speaking from actual gameplay experience.
- Reg

@Siu, I'm not sure if you will ever read this. I still think FoW AP/MP Removal calculation / Formula is messed up. The TL;DR is, it heavily favour class with high base AP/MP removal, Lashing Arrow for Example at -3MP, even at 50% success rate, it still ensure an at least 1~2MP removal. While class with low base AP/MP removal, Frostbite for Example at -1AP, that's 50% chance to deal -1AP, or 0AP, AKA wasted move / spell cast.
19 -1
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Score : 2888

Hello, me again, after a lot of though, I came up with a revamp for Xelor that rewards no using the Dial, but also makes the Dial easier to use and not overall a liability:
Original thread:
https://www.wakfu.com/en/forum/50-xelor/238459-proposition-xelor-revamp

Status: Great Clockmaker

  • +10 levels per AP removed.
  • +5 levels per AP given.
  • +10 levels per turn without a Dial.
  • +5 per activation of Temporal Freeze.

Dial: You guys want less Dial? Then lets do this!
  • No longer have a physical spire and HP, Dial is no longer a targetable object.
  • Dial lasts for 4 turns.
  • Cooldown 2 turns after it's gone.
  • Costs 2AP 1WP to summon.
  • Dial's hour change every turn clock-wise.
  • Xelor gains 5% dmg if standing over any hour, 15% if starting the turn over active hour.
  • Dial vanishes at the end of the Xelor's turn.
  • Passive: Dial Master: Increases Dial duration for 1 turn and reduces cost by 2AP.

New Passive: Timeless: A fair way to reward Xelors that fight without their Dials.
  • When the Dial is not on field, Xelor gains 2 range on all spells. Including Tempus Fugit.
  • +50% Dodge
  • +5 Force of Will (Level 2)
  • Starts the fight with 10 levels of Great Clockmaker (Level 2)

Tempus Fugit: A few alterations in this spell might be of order.
  • Only 2 uses per turn.
  • Target Active Dial Hours regardless of distance.
  • Also affected by Timeless Range bonus.
  • No longer damage allies.

Aging: There is absolutely no point in removing Initiative anymore, this concept was dead.
  • No longer removes Initiative.
  • Stacks levels of Aging that deal extra damage when triggered by Hand and Temporal Burn.
  • Damage of aging equals 50% the damage inflicted by Hand and Temporal Burn.
  • Increase by 15% damage of Temporal Freeze.

Sinistro: Why not make it a fully operational summonable like Osa's pets and Foggernaut's bot?
  • No longer on Water branch, now an Active spell.
  • 2 Turns cooldown after Sinistro is destroyed.
  • Fully summonable ally with it's own turn to be controlled by the user.
  • Only one Sinistro at a time.
  • Sinistro have 50% of Xelor's HP, 6 AP, 3WP and 5 MP
  • Spells:
  1. Frostbite - 3AP, removes 1AP, second use have 50% chance of removing 1AP.
  2. Relocation - 3AP and 1MP, teleports Sinistro to target cell, doesn't require Line of Sight, 3 cells of range.
  3. Rewind - 5AP and 1WP, restores Sinistro's HP to how much it was in the previous turn.
  4. Sacrifice - 4AP, kills the sinistro and gives the Xelor 1WP and 2AP
  5. Thirteenth Hour - 2AP and 6MP, the Sinistros casts on am empty cell an extra hour cell to the Xelor.
  • XIII hour cell lasts 2 turns, fully connected to the Dial, max 7 cells distant from closest hour.
  • Can only be cast when Dial is in place.
  • Clock rotation does not include XIII Cell.
  • If the Dial desappears next turn, the XIII Cell goes with it.

Hydrant: This summonable is more cumbersome than useful, better let the Xelor cast the spell itself.
  • No longer a summonable object
  • Becomes a spell cast by the Xelor
  • 4AP, 5 Range, Cross-shaped AoE, 3 cells-long
  • +2 levels of Hydrant charge per target hit.

Against the Clock: Just a replacement for the Sinistro,no further modificiations aside giving it some little damage.
  • Replaces Sinistro in the Water branch.
  • Deals a fair amount of damage to Enemies.
  • Enemies are given the status Against the clock, sending it back to the cell it previously occupied at the end of it's turn.
  • 3 turns cooldown.
  • Can be cast on Self and Allies.
  • No damage on Self and Allies.
0 0
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Score : 5197

Your dial is straight up better then the current one.
"Dial lasts for 4 turns.", "Dial vanishes at the end of the Xelor's turn."        What?

Timeless is an even worse passive then Lone sadida.

Would Sinistro get your willpower?

Also an elemental spell with a 3 turn cooldown is just weird.

1 -9
Score : 5197

 

Granthese|2020-01-20 19:59:50
Because Masqueraider is DEFINED by its masks, it can't have any bonus for not using the clone, which is a minor utility, Eniripsa's unnatural remedies only exist so the class doesn't have one entire elemental branch unnable to damage the enemies, The reward for not using Unnatural remedies exist, and it's called HEALING. While Enutrof's drhellzerker form is too small of a mechanic for you to rely it to the point of not using it changing the class entirely. The class is defined by some other mechanics. Xelor, however, is so dependant of the Dial is too much of a liability, but it's not what defines the class. Its a completely unique case of dependency on the wrong thing. My point is not rewarding the lack of Dial, but COMPENSATING, while also buffing the Dial without making it even more powerful when the class itself is on the edge of being OP as it is now.
Take Huppermage, for instance, it got 2 or 3 different mechanics with QB, you can either keep building it to use light spells (with several passives that increase generation and damage, decrease cost of QB and so on) use light spells to empower the elemental at the cost of generating less QB (passive Gift Incarnated) or go back and forth between full and empty QB to get a bonus damage (passive Fluctuation), three mechanics that can't exactly coexist without limiting one or the other.
Besides, sometimes the dial is more of a high-maintenance hindrance than your most valuable tool, such as close-quarters and enemies too heavy on the AoEs, but some fights are in vast fields that make it very useful to move with ease and enemies with less range that won't be hitting the dial all the time. Its best to be prepared for all cases.
 

Masquaraider's clone isn't "minor utility" it basically doubles his output early game, while making him more vulnerable to damage, eniripsas can still heal even when using UR (your fire spells heal nder UB and swapping states only costs MP) and enutrof becomes a melee powerhouse under zerk, but sacrifices his range.

So if xelor is so "utterly dependant on the dial", wouldn't it make more sense to nerf the dial and buff the xelor spells so he can function without it, instead of keeping it strong AND buffing him for not using it?

PS: Xelor is defined by his AP manipulation and mechanisms, the dial is just a movement utility with some damage strapped to it, it's less synergystic with his kit then pandawa's barrel
1 -8
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Score : 2888

Thing is, there is nowhere to buff a Xelor, its already one of the strongest DPSs that covers 3 entire areas with ease: Range, Single-Target and AoE, any buff to compensate a lack of a dial can only make him way too OP. I think the best solution would be making his Dial more temporary but compensating it's absence with SOMETHING other than damage, my suggestion being simply a range buff. When you have the Dial, you have the mobility and damage buff, without the dial, you have more range so you can keep attacking the enemy from a safer distance while the Dial is on cooldown.

0 -7
Score : 496

I'm quite concerned by the changes the devs are exploring.

"the dial is without downsides"

The dial being seen as without downsides ignores that it is in fact designed this way.,Not everything needs to be a set of tradeoffs, and it is not so powerful as to break the game. It is the essential tool that allows the xelor to be a fragile damage dealer and no real self sustain. Many of the xelor's other spells have a reliance on it (devotion, underhand, timekeeper) and the xelor does not have strong defensive or sustain tools.

The dial gives the xelor the ability to hop in and out of a small area. It constrains this ability to that area, and mobs will currently go out of their way to kill the dial, along with speed bonus rounds from bosses also frequently removing the dial. This further limits placement of the dial to cells which would themselves be safe.



WP for movement on the dial:

Great, so I do need to regear. Assuming the dial being without downsides leads to the obvious, but unwanted "the dial is even better, but now mandatory to perform at all", I now need to drop +MP (more than I already was) and -WP gear from the build in favor of extra +AP and +WP gear.


Wanting more AP theft

Willpower (force of will now, but ....) + stasis modifications to willpower make this terrifying that the devs want this to be the core strength of the xelor. AP theft is impactful, but I'm going to need to have a reasonable way to do it reliably if the devs want this to be part of the class, and without changes to will power, this isn't happening. You'd have to give the xelor access to too much force of will as to be overpowering in PvP to even function in PvE in this role.


Wanting us to cast more spells

I *already* run the timer out consistently waiting for spell animations and death animations

Beyond this, the last time xelors actually were casting more varied spell combinations (remember the various combinations with sandglass, temporal freeze being competitive with aging?), those spell combinations got nerfed to the point of pushing xelors to using more of the repetitive combos.

Why should I believe that anything that makes this style of gameplay attractive again isn't going to be subjected to the same cycle later?

9 -1
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Score : 5197

Not wanting to change the dial because of spells that depend on the dial is just circular logic, if something depends on the dial you can always change it, that's what a rework is.

Also more spell variety doesn't mean more spell spamming. Imo the biggest problem with xelor's current time limits is rollback, since you have to think about it and triger it on the fly, extending your turns even longer and cheap spells you have to spam to feed it.

1 -9
Score : 9008

i don't see why the dial needs to have downsides.

i don't play xelor. but i do play huppermage, osa, and ouginak.

huppermage uses QB, which does not have a downside
osamodas uses summons, which do not have a downside
ouginak transforms, which does not have a downside

these mechanics are integral to the class and are what makes them unique in the world. the xelor's dial is the same thing - it is integral to the class, and is what makes the class unique in the world.

to add a downside to the dial is to ask xelors to choose whether they want to use it or not. imagine asking a panda to choose if it wants to summon a barrel or pick things up. imagine asking an osa to choose whether or not to summon, ask a sram to choose whether or not to turn invisible, ask an eliotrope to choose not to create portals.

these mechanics that make the classes unique do not need to have downsides. the mindset that the dial needs to have a downside is wrong from the beginning.

5 -1
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Score : 5197

QB is just WP, why wold WP have a downside? It's not a mechanic, it's a stat.
Osamodas' summons aren't a mechanic, they are the whole theme of the class, xelor's theme isn't dial it's AP removal and mobility and the dial is just one of the tools it has.
Ouginak transformation does have a downside, it prevents you from gaining fury and resets your fury to 0 when you turn back.

As for panda, yes you can't pick things up while carying a barrel, it's a major dilema when playing them and osamoda have a choice to either be strong supports or go dragon mode and have good damage but be bad at supporting.
Srams do have a choice to turn invisible, it costs 2 WP and sometimes you want to save that WP for other spells, since their WP regen sucks.
Eliotropes n the oter hand while they coud not create portls it's not a great idea because that's their whole theme of the class, like roges and bombs or enutrofs and mines. But not xelors and dials.

2 -13
Score : 496

 

cody5|2020-04-08 05:52:24
Not wanting to change the dial because of spells that depend on the dial is just circular logic, if something depends on the dial you can always change it, that's what a rework is.
 


I never said I didn't want the dial changed (without seeing the exact changes, I can only speak to what the devs have said they want to do and why, but I want to raise my concerns even with that before it gets too locked into a concept)

I was pointing out the logic that *the current dial* has certain behaviors and that characterizing *the current dial* as "without any sort of tradeoffs" worried me because it clearly is not accurate in the first place, but is being used as the basis for whatever changes are being made to it.


cody5|2020-04-08 05:52:24


Also more spell variety doesn't mean more spell spamming. Imo the biggest problem with xelor's current time limits is rollback, since you have to think about it and triger it on the fly, extending your turns even longer and cheap spells you have to spam to feed it.


Did you not read what I wrote? I never equated spell spamming with more variety. I pointed out that the last time the devs gave us more variety and when xelors started actually using that variety, they reacted by nerfing that variety pushing us towards just the same combos over and over. I'm merely stating concern about the development pushing that direction again if all that it leads to is reactionary nerfs taking it away immediately again.

I actually agree with you about rollback's dynamic nature being semi-difficult to use effectively in the given time in a round, but I also think this can be solved by just shortening some of the animations. I handle it fine (though with hotkeys, and feeling rushed) even on a 28 AP turn with a rollback needing to happen in the middle of it at a non-pre determined point.
2 -1
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Score : 263

Xelor and feca revamp concerns me a lot since i have them both on my team and if i will not like one or both of them will i get option for free class change?

1 0
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Score : 5197

No, they never give free class change for reworks

1 -1
Score : 5197

 

T1gerator|2020-04-08 16:11:38
did you reply to me just to nitpick me while being wrong about everything you said?


No, I was just pointing out that the dial is not needed to be the intgral part of the class and commented on the integral and power nature of each class a bility you mentioned as they are all different. Also if you believe I'm wrong, use an example instead of just refuting everything I said with a "no it's not"?
1 -5
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Score : 9008

you said "QB is not a mechanic, it's a stat" and my eyes rolled so hard sparks flew out.

i'm not obligated to engage with you. you are wrong, you clearly don't play a huppermage if you think QB is just reskinned WP, and i don't have to spend 30 minutes explaining a class you don't play to you knowing full well that you're going to disagree with everything i post because it seems like all you do is disagree with everything everyone posts for sport.

if you want to find out what QB is, i invite you to actually boot the game for the first time in several years and find out with your own two eyes and your own two hands.

2 -1
Score : 496

 

cody5|2020-04-09 09:30:43
 
T1gerator|2020-04-08 16:11:38
did you reply to me just to nitpick me while being wrong about everything you said?




No, I was just pointing out that the dial is not needed to be the intgral part of the class and commented on the integral and power nature of each class a bility you mentioned as they are all different. Also if you believe I'm wrong, use an example instead of just refuting everything I said with a "no it's not"?
 


And you were absolutely wrong in doing so in the process. So wrong, that no reasonable person should need to respond, but people are going to anyway because if they don't, the class might get ignored when it comes to concerns because someone decided to put things which are incorrect into the mix muddying the waters. I've refrained from chiming in in the other class threads you've done this because while I understand not all of it is correct, I can't make a strong enough argument as someone not playing those classes.

The dial is *currently* the center for the entire xelor kit. You can say that it doesn't need to be that way, and you'd be correct to an extent, but you are wrong to say it isn't currently, and I'd argue that the developers removing this or changing this aspect is bad thematically as the dial is the only real iconic bit of the xelor's kit. Everything else is just thematically appropriate animations, and things like aging which aren't so much iconic as they are things that have just been around forever and people know about.


" use an example instead of just refuting everything I said "

So let's go into why you're wrong, and how the dial is the thematic focal point of the xelor's spells.

1. It's the first class active spell you get.
2. The second and 4th active spells you get interact with it.
3. The first class passive is "Dial master" a passive that interacts with it.
4. There are multiple elemental spells that also interact with it.

People build sets around the restricted, but powerful mobility it gives, in exchange for knowing that should the dial need to be replaced or be destroyed they will be less effective.

As for other mechanics which could be pointed to as "the xelor does this, this is what a xelor is":

AP theft isn't unique to the xelor, neither is AP buffing, neither are interactions between spells, neither is delayed damage. It's really just the dial when it comes to "what mechanics are here that other classes don't have some real close parallel to at minimum" The sinistro is a somewhat unique summon as well, but is clearly not the thematic center of the class.

People pick xelor because of the dial. I hope the devs actually see and recognize this before doing something that is going to alienate those players, and force people to regear when one of their goals for these reworks was that people would not need to do that.


 
Edit: the below got merged into this due to using the quote button. New forum software is hillarious even still, and hasn't been fixed after all this time still.
cody5|2020-04-09 12:38:31
I think people more often pick xelor for their damage output then the dial, but yes, a lot of spells interact with the dial at the moment, but mostly as a limitation not as an amplification.

I disagree with the notion that AP manipulation isn't the xelor theme, half of their spells are about stat theft (AP in water and initiative in fire)



Yeah, they are a ranged damage dealer. So are a few other classes. When a new player picks a class, it isn't gonna be just about that. Hell, a cra would be more effective in my team, but I picked the xelor because I enjoy the playstyle which does revolve around the dial.

AP manipulation may be something they can do, but as already covered above

1. it isn't unique to the class
2. (as other people pointed out) even when it is effective (in removing AP), tanking is more effective and it never feels impactful.

This mechanic really shouldn't be prioritized. It isn't one that feels impactful or good to use even when it actually is. Even with it being powerful, if it doesn't feel good, it doesn't make the class something people want to play.

The idea that initiative theft is useful or should count as stat theft is also hilarious. Yeah, it's technically a stat theft. The only purpose it actually serves is to interact with aging, and this could easily be accomplished with a state like temporal freeze instead. It also has a *downside* in PvP as if you lower someone's initiative who takes the initiative passive, you might make them deal more damage.

 
5 -1
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Score : 5197

I think people more often pick xelor for their damage output then the dial, but yes, a lot of spells interact with the dial at the moment, but mostly as a limitation not as an amplification.

I disagree with the notion that AP manipulation isn't the xelor theme, half of their spells are about stat theft (AP in water and initiative in fire)

1 -5
Score : 4286

Judging by the beta test of the foggers, the Ankama listen to the community and during the testing three times changed many features of foggers abilities!
cody5, please stop trolling. Ankama in the announcement said that stasis would be like light, but then they refused to do it. just like here, all that they voiced is not a solid stone. 
The dial already has a drawback, which is most pronounced for high-level content. and to judge something comprehensively, you need to be in this context wink 
Firstly, the dial is already fragile. bosses and mobs easily destroy it at level 200! 
Secondly, the dial limits the xelor's mobility in the sense that it ties the gameplay around the dial setting area. and the dial cannot be invoked every turn. when all classes were first updated, then the Xelors already had such an opportunity (dial every turn). For example, Ogrest does not allow Xelor to feel safe and calling the dial there is not always rational. Because there are so many different mechanics and Xelor cannot stay on the dial constantly. And there are other dungeons where the dial gives Xelor only a temporary advantage.
Thirdly, I agree that the dial is a class feature of Xelor. Many classes can remove ap! if Xelor does it better, it still means nothing. But only Xelor can do dial. 
 

15 -2
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Score : 5197

 

T1gerator|2020-04-09 20:59:17
you said "QB is not a mechanic, it's a stat" and my eyes rolled so hard sparks flew out.

i'm not obligated to engage with you. you are wrong, you clearly don't play a huppermage if you think QB is just reskinned WP, and i don't have to spend 30 minutes explaining a class you don't play to you knowing full well that you're going to disagree with everything i post because it seems like all you do is disagree with everything everyone posts for sport.

if you want to find out what QB is, i invite you to actually boot the game for the first time in several years and find out with your own two eyes and your own two hands.


Just because the class has an unique method of WP/QB regeneration doesn't make it anything more then fractionated WP. The only unique thing about it is that some spells consume a percentage of it instead of a flat amount. Also I do play huppers, I play ever class except for cra, on Remington, Nox and Phaeris, for the last 9 years.
9Nectum9|2020-04-09 22:04:45
Judging by the beta test of the foggers, the Ankama listen to the community and during the testing three times changed many features of foggers abilities!
cody5, please stop trolling. Ankama in the announcement said that stasis would be like light, but then they refused to do it. just like here, all that they voiced is not a solid stone. 
The dial already has a drawback, which is most pronounced for high-level content. and to judge something comprehensively, you need to be in this context wink 
Firstly, the dial is already fragile. bosses and mobs easily destroy it at level 200! 
Secondly, the dial limits the xelor's mobility in the sense that it ties the gameplay around the dial setting area. and the dial cannot be invoked every turn. when all classes were first updated, then the Xelors already had such an opportunity (dial every turn). For example, Ogrest does not allow Xelor to feel safe and calling the dial there is not always rational. Because there are so many different mechanics and Xelor cannot stay on the dial constantly. And there are other dungeons where the dial gives Xelor only a temporary advantage.
Thirdly, I agree that the dial is a class feature of Xelor. Many classes can remove ap! if Xelor does it better, it still means nothing. But only Xelor can do dial. 
 


I'm not trolling and completely understand that these changes are ulimately tenative, I was there arging against the change of stasis when it was announced as a possibility.
Secondly while I think it would make sense for a dial to have a drawback, but obviously if you have a drawback it could be given power otherwhere, like:
-a lower cost/cooldown
-being indestructible
-being movable with xelor's spells
-etc.

Thirdly I think a fixed-mobility like the dial is on-theme for xelor, he has multiple spells that can give you teleportation in a limited area:
Dial: high mobility in a limited area
Tempus fugit: semi-permanent tepeortation between 2 points
Against the clock: teleportation to a fixed point on a delay
Underhand: Teleportation limited to the dial area

I would still like the dial used, you think this would hamper the xelor's movememnt to once or twice, but this is entirely a preconception based on the surrent xelor design, if the would indeed make movement on the dial cost WP, obviously they would have to give xelor a much better WP regen, or some other bonus.
These are glimpses into the possible xelor design not the complete rework, if I told you fogger would be able to have a huge damage boost at max WP you would call it insane, but that is because you wouldn't know that they will start at 0 WP.
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cody5|2020-04-10 01:53:48
Well that's because there's more to the game then grinding exp to level 200.
I prefer doing quests and exploring the world with all 18 classes (except cra, I don't find them interesting), especially at levels under 100.
I probably completed the main questline up to the Bovis Rockwool at least 20 times and know the glyph puzzle in wild estate temple like the back of my hand.

Seems to me you're just assuming you're the special one and no one else is doing what you're doing. There's plenty of people with Multiple Class at Lv.200, very well geared, capable of S31+ Shadofang, and still being a completionist when it comes to Quest and Achievement. Yet, I've never seen them spewing as much nonsense and lack of in-game experience as you do. So what is your excuse?
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I'm not saying I'm a completionist, I'm saying I'm a procrastinator who deletes and restarts my low level characters occasionally and hates grinding my high level characters, so I spend most of my time playing my 14  characters that are under lvl 100 instead of my 3 characters that are over lvl 100.
I would like to argue about my oppinion being nonsense, I like to think it's well informed if off-meta.

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cody5|2020-04-10 11:32:14
I'm not saying I'm a completionist, I'm saying I'm a procrastinator who deletes and restarts my low level characters occasionally and hates grinding my high level characters, so I spend most of my time playing my 14  characters that are under lvl 100 instead of my 3 characters that are over lvl 100.
I would like to argue about my oppinion being nonsense, I like to think it's well informed if off-meta.

Like everyone else, I'm worried about the Xelor Revamp. I've been following this thread since it open, and I for one can tell you're going way off topic. Stop making it all about you, and how great you are, where your opinion matter more than others, nitpicking on others opinions is generally bad forum behavior. 
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I was only talking about me because that dude keeps gatekeeping me just because I don't have a lvl 200 character.

As for the revamp, I am not worried, all the recent revamps have been great, so I am excited and hopeful.
And if the rework will be bad on beta you can be sure I will complain about it.

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I often hear Xelors as "glass guns". This means that they are fragile, but strong. Indeed, the ability to heal itself opens at level 170, and that depends on how successfully the Xelor will take action points. Currently, the Xelors show their class archetype not only because they know how to take action points. Xelors can play more actions, because they create a huge number of action points both for themselves and for allies, thereby creating an imaginary effect of acceleration during. That Xelors can manipulate time, so they can do more things than a class that does not manipulate time. Dial is an important "symbol".
Let's talk about passives. Fogger now has 16 passives.
exclXelor has only half (8 passives)excl

1 - allows Xelor to do more things (move faster in the flow of time).
2 - increases damage and allows you to do dial for free.
3 - slows down the Xelor (he does fewer actions in the current turn), but speeds him up the next turn.
4 - buff on damage, willpower and range.
5 - gives Xelor get 20 final damage, but not from the first and not from the second move you can achieve the maximum effect. there is an even stronger version:
6- a passive that rewards Xelor when he steals AP. the only passive from which Xelor life can be restored. Ecaflip can do can perfectly restore yourself and do a lot of damage. But I recall the main argument that Xelor is now a "glass guns".
And as my colleague professional Xelor said
 
Reg3e|2019-12-18 14:00:27
  1. Monsters who can't use all their spells if they lack 3AP and lower, often dies before the positive effect of AP removal can be felt, they're usually early to mid game grindable content where each match barely last a few turns.
  2. In the case of late game where AP removal truly matters, where each match lasting easily 20~100+ Turns, often the monster have high base FoW that easily overpowered even the best / most well geared Xelor, barely removing a couple AP, let alone 4~7 AP.
  3. Even for those Monster who can't use all their spells if they lack 3AP or less, they can easily gain FoW during Higher Stasis Dungeon settings, which ALWAYS overpower the amount a max geared Xelor can gain for that particular Level Category.


Okey? Next, 
7 -  just increases the damage, but very few Xelors use this. maybe because there are other better options?
And very beautiful finish ha-ha 
8 -  this passives is really only used in rare aoe xelor builds. it's all. Xelor has only 8 passives. we can take only 6. far more often Xelors take only 5 class passives and this :
I started playing for this class in 2015. You can check it in my profile. I experienced a change in the development and game design team after the first huge class update. For example, look at what characteristics were before.
 
But we are distracted. The Xelors already had two large nerfs. After one of them, for example, Xelors are no longer called to do Nogorod Lair and this is a very important dungeon. Despite this, Xelor copes with its roles perfectly. We have the ability to position (teleport the enemy, teleport the ally, push the enemy away by 1 cell, push away by two cells, push away by three cells). And wonderful :
this ability is very cool. 
Next. In each of the elemental direction Xelor can do good damage (air+water; fire+water; air+water or triple). There is even a  dmg spell that interacts with the dial.
 
Next. 
Preventing movement -  means slowing down the number of enemy actions, i.e. removing ap, but we already talked about this. It doesn’t work well in pve, and good in pvp. What really needs to be improved “revamp” in this class? Mechanisms and survivability. And make it an alternative to gameplay, and not the main one that can do good damage. Also replace the initiative removal mechanics. This is confusing because we do not remove initiative. That's all xelor needs right now.
But for some reason I have a bad feeling about this "revamp". Although now I see, judging by the hotfix 1.67.1, game designers increased the damage to the fogger. It is nice signal for me that they can not only reduce it smile. I just want us to not try to talk about the different images of Xelor, so that we do not divide into two camps (one camp wants to nerf the dial, and the other does not). Then we can criticize accurately and accurately, if we speak the same language, unless of course if game designers will break this class. And if they have enough time and inspiration, they can add variative and deep mechanics with a dial…or there is a simpler way, - 
just nerf it.
I pay for this game and I am pleased with the current changes. The new Fogger is just magical! New panda island, redesign of nations, redesign of sadida island, bags! They are making very high quality content right now. They even lowered the cost of the booster. Therefore, I will pay for the game. Let's just not swear and focus on what really can be improved! 
 
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I mean the initative removal is obviously a relic of the past, there's a 0% chance it will be kept in the revamp.
I agree but would like to add one thing: Weakness clarity.
At the moment there's no way to tell if you actually hampered an enemy's actions by removing AP, I would suggest adding a feature that all enemies make an angry smiley when they could have cast a spell but can't because of lowered AP (just like some low lvl monsters already do when you dodge them or kill their ally)

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Exactly, most people seems to forget Xelor has received Two Three big nerfs since it's last major revamp back in 2015.

  • Sandglass Nerf, from Unlimited Cast to 2 Cast per Target. That's one Combo out of Xelor's arsenal.
  • Dial Nerf, from Castable every Turn, to Once every Two Turns. That's not all, Dial is already Squishy as it is, being easily 1 Turn by Mobs in any S11+ 200 Content. Once destroyed, it's another Chunck of Mechanics being removed from Xelor's arsenal. (Plenty of Xelor's Kit rely on Dial / Hour Cell)
  • Force of Will Nerf, now being shared along side with MP Removal, it's more desirable to Keep Mobs FoW low for MP Removal instead of AP Removal as AP Removal has little to no Impact in PvE, meaning Xel are generally banned from using AP removal Spells. Meaning, Time Theft Passive is useless, reduced WP regen potential, and Several Spells out of the question. That's another BIG Chunch of Mechanics being removed from Xelor's arsenal. Let's not forget Clock was secretly nerf from -2AP down to -1AP. Class like Elio and Eca can remove more AP than a Xel, a class dedicated for AP manipulation, so easily outperformed.
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very important addition! thanks happy

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