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Is a Fire/Water viable?

By Vaus February 02, 2014, 19:32:42

So far I've being playing around with a fire/water build to get a feel for the xelor's capabilities, and it's been fun. Before I respec and possibly change to another build I wanted to hear anyone else's advice on fire/water.

It seems to me like the build would be versatile at the cost of some of the fire branch's firepower (forgive the pun) and the water branch's AP stealing, but could the build be spreading skills too thin?

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Plausible, but one reason it's awkward is because the branches don't have any synergy. Xelor builds typically incorporate air because of Aging being a catalyst to enhance both fire and water's damages. That, and fire/water sets are not very impressive, especially the late game Wobotic set.

• Mango

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Brokonaut|2014-02-03 17:49:18
Plausible, but one reason it's awkward is because the branches don't have any synergy. Xelor builds typically incorporate air because of Aging being a catalyst to enhance both fire and water's damages. That, and fire/water sets are not very impressive, especially the late game Wobotic set.

• Mango

I had the same exact thoughts, but was just hoping they weren't true. Even as I was going through the fire/water build, the poor synergy between branches stuck out like a sore thumb. Thanks for your advice.

I do have a question about Xelor's Punishment then, since I might as well pursue an air hybrid build. How often do you use it in combat compared to your other spells? I can see myself using it should enemies get close to my dial, but it seems like a back-up measure if they get that close. Thanks again!
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You would think it'd be awkward, but enemies end up around your dial more often than you'd expect. I use it very frequently. It can also be used off the dial in a pinch, but that's more of a last resort thing (e.g. you're on a Tock turn, you hit two enemies off the dial with Hand and follow up with Punishment for high off-dial DPT).

Also when teleporting enemies with Underhand + Temporal Distortion they'll always be in a position where you can achieve backstab on them with Xelor's Punishment.

• Mango

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I use Punishment all the time. Mobs do end up on your dial often. You can always step off to end your turn and replace it the next in a better position.

I play Air/water but I'm pretty sure I'll switch to Air/fire in the near future. I really enjoy the synergy of my fire Eni combined with other fire classes. Plus the burst potential of air/fire Xelor is much higher than /water.

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Currently thinking of a Fire/Water xelor so I'll just put my thoughts.

Fire/Water can manage 205 base damage a turn @ level 100 with 12 AP by utilizing 3x Sinestros on the first turn. This is very impractical, as its completely reliant on those Sinestros and if they get hit even once, your damage drops.
However its completely unreliant on tick/tock turns

Air+Fire to my knowledge gets up to 206 (well actually less) base damage a turn @ level 100 with 12 AP.
With Hydrant abuse its possible for them to get 227+ base damage a turn but good luck with that if you thought Sinestros were impractical.

Water/Air using the exact same Sinestro set-up above could get 215 per turn if they get good Xelors punishments, dial reliant but also completely unreliant on tick/tock turns.

Sinestros @ level 100 are 32 damage for 4 AP. Thing is Sinestros have 3 charges which means they can get 3 hits in during their lifetime. That is 96 damage per sinestro. With 3 control you can summon all 3 on the first turn which means over 3 turns they'd do 288 base. This is how you get those high DPT's.

Hydrant is in the same boat but 90 damage instead of 96 and its Aoe.

The problem with both of these is that 1) if they get hit even once that is one attack less that they can do which means less damage

2) They have to actually hit every attack every single turn for the 3 turns they are alive.

If you take that all in, Water/Fire isnt too shabby numerically but it isn't strong practically.

Maybe there is another way to look at it but so far that is what seems to be the "strongest" way to use water/fire
3x Sinestros on turn 1, then 2x Hand + 1x Sandglass for turns 2 & 3. Respawn the sinestros on turn 4 repeating the process...

The other thing I was thinking was just to do the be an AP booster in water and just 2x Hand + Temporal every time you can't AP boost.

Kinda only has purpose over Water/Air if they resist Air though....or if you can't Xelors Punishment.

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I've never seen a build so versatile that I recommend it over all others a class could achieve but... Air/Fire is just that. If you're desperate to include water I suggest a Tri build.

As Air/Fire you tick almost every possible box you can. I only need 5 spells near or at max level.

Hand+LoF+Punishment = great AoE dmg
Aging+Hand+LoF = great single target dmg
LoF = noLoS spell
Hand = long range spell
Underhand = great dmg and ranged push spell
LoF+Underhand+Punishment = CC spell
Underhand+TempDistortion = teleporting mobs and allies
Mummy = Raise
Devotion = 4ap
Rollback = more AP(3)
TempPrism and Dial = great ele dmg boost
Tempus Fugit = escape spell and helpful ally teleport. To be fair i rarely have time to consider using the teleport aspect of that spell.

I still find plenty of use for under leveld Time Control and Sandglass as well.

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Water/Fire with control gear is amazing.

I made one Xelor like that months ago just to test something that would not require Xelor Punishment spam.

I used my Sinistros as map control tools. I had a great strategic gameplay, but I did less damage. Not that less damage means that the build is useless, I could get rid of some situations that an overrated air and fire build wouldn't be able to.

It's all up to you, I know the water and fire gear available around is not the best, but you can work around it :]

Moreover, I think that a water/fire build with lots of control would be amazingly helpful in Flaxhid...

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^ I figure all the Fire/Water gear is made for Xelors...because CMC isnt doing anything for my Masq.

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Actually most Fire/Water gear is more than likely made with Summoner's in mind. Sadida's and Osamodas' that is. They each benefit from just one of those elements, but both use the CMC damage and Control.

Gear mores specifically made for Water Xelors in mind normally has an increase in removing AP.

- Kat

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kurokat|2014-07-30 09:11:47
Actually most Fire/Water gear is more than likely made with Summoner's in mind. Sadida's and Osamodas' that is. They each benefit from just one of those elements, but both use the CMC damage and Control.

Gear mores specifically made for Water Xelors in mind normally has an increase in removing AP.

- Kat
Yeah this is sorta true if anything has ap removal on it its usually made with xelors in mind. Its why black wabbit was very good for water xelors when it came out imo.

Anyway i do think fire/water xelor is perfectly viable in fact im fire water and i do fine most of the time. I mean my main issue is more getting my water to my fire damage level. What i like about water is that on bosses that are immune you can still take ap you can also give ap if you cant do anything else alot better than normally i mean you can really spread the ap around. I think the biggest issue with fire water is just getting the gear for it thats good. I actually think sinistros is the wrong way to build water but i guess its up to personal preference.
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What are you considering if not Sinestro's?
Time control, Sandglass, Hand, Temporal Burn, LoF/FB?

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I was Fire / Water and i just add Air for aging. Work well at high level.

My spell are (Hand - Burn (fire)) - (Sandglass - Cloak (water)) - (Aging (Air))

Might get hard to get a hand on 3 element gear now but it might worth it!

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