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Xelor Discussion Thread

By IYesWayI August 11, 2013, 20:49:50
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- where is delete post button -

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BbeforeA|2013-08-13 16:47:35
Eeryone who thinks the 4 classes i brought up are not as good as they actually are, are just noob, have no clue or just can't PVP properly and want to be on here whining about it.
As for all the other classes, i can easily compare all of them to xelor. Like how easily earth enu destroys a xelor in PVP.

I really do not want to get too much into your whole ad hominem accusation style since that is simply bad taste, but many of your claims leave me curious.

Like that 100 block Iop for example. Or that 3500 damage averaging Masq.

I am hardly someone that has never PvP'ed and it seems we are playing on the same server. I think I regularly beat many of the people that can be considered PvP specialists at 5th.

For example do I have a long term record of roughly 50% vs the best earth Enus I know on my Xelor. Like Nanners etc, or would you consider him one of the Noobs too? Nontheless I do not see why you consider this to be a matchup that destroys the Xelor.

What makes me really curious is that you claim to know all these super players (*nudge nudge*) yet I have never heard your name or even seen you. I wonder if there is some secret meeting place where all these uber chars challenge eachother that I am not aware of and if so I would like to ask for you to take me there and show me.

I am honestly curious since I always am interested in improving my builds (even though they won't ever be PvP oriented since that would just be roleplaying with PvP having no meaning whatsoever in this game).

So yeah I am asking you to present me some proper evidence in game because these people must outclass me by far when it comes to character building and I have a lvl100+ toon in basically every class which I'd like to improve then. Oo

So shoot me an invite when any of these secret PvP events are going down. Thanks.

P.S.: I never said Xelor is stronger than before revamp btw. The raw power it brought to the table then was unmatched. Now it is more of a McGyver like character with some nuking options.
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Shaleigh1|2013-08-14 17:27:56
BbeforeA|2013-08-13 16:47:35
Eeryone who thinks the 4 classes i brought up are not as good as they actually are, are just noob, have no clue or just can't PVP properly and want to be on here whining about it.
As for all the other classes, i can easily compare all of them to xelor. Like how easily earth enu destroys a xelor in PVP.

I really do not want to get too much into your whole ad hominem accusation style since that is simply bad taste, but many of your claims leave me curious.

Like that 100 block Iop for example. Or that 3500 damage averaging Masq.

I am hardly someone that has never PvP'ed and it seems we are playing on the same server. I think I regularly beat many of the people that can be considered PvP specialists at 5th.

For example do I have a long term record of roughly 50% vs the best earth Enus I know on my Xelor. Like Nanners etc, or would you consider him one of the Noobs too? Nontheless I do not see why you consider this to be a matchup that destroys the Xelor.

What makes me really curious is that you claim to know all these super players (*nudge nudge*) yet I have never heard your name or even seen you. I wonder if there is some secret meeting place where all these uber chars challenge eachother that I am not aware of and if so I would like to ask for you to take me there and show me.

I am honestly curious since I always am interested in improving my builds (even though they won't ever be PvP oriented since that would just be roleplaying with PvP having no meaning whatsoever in this game).

So yeah I am asking you to present me some proper evidence in game because these people must outclass me by far when it comes to character building and I have a lvl100+ toon in basically every class which I'd like to improve then. Oo

So shoot me an invite when any of these secret PvP events are going down. Thanks.

P.S.: I never said Xelor is stronger than before revamp btw. The raw power it brought to the table then was unmatched. Now it is more of a McGyver like character with some nuking options.

If you can gain 50block then u can gain 100 block with iop. I did say i wasn't 100% sure about an iop having 100block and maintaining a good build. Was just writing about how strong iops can be, as everyone seems to be raging at xelors.
As for masq dealing 3500 damage, i've already answered that question, it's not longer something you should be curious about. Just go to the 2nd page and read how easily a masq can deal that amount of damage, even if the build was a bad one, it just shows the potential and can obviously be improved (wakfu is straight forward).

I've never seen you either. I changed my xelor's name from Dastardly and have been doing pretty much nothing on wakfu except PVP at 5th bond with this tri xelor for over a year. I'm currently PVPIng as a tri xelor with a moo set because i have a life. If u ran into 5th bond there is a very high chance i would have challenged u as i challenge everyone that doesn't look low lv, and i get refused a lot, especially by other xelors. I haven't played in a few days out of boredom though. Nothing new, and xelor got boring again.

Nanners is a strong earth enu. I would like to see u 2 pvp seeing as how you say he's not too difficult to beat. If u haven't forgotten, nanners gets hacked often, so ur 50% losses are probably during the times he actually had his items. And how many times have u fought him after the xelor revamp?

I didn't claim to know 'all the super players'. A bit annoying you said that. I know good players that know how to play their classes properly because i've seen them by spectating their PVP s or by PVPing them my self. Most of them don't PVP so much though. Not sure why they don't, probably UB and item hunting.

You can enjoy the game as you like by PVM or PVP, doesn't bother me. Personally i find the game a total waste of time and the only worth it has is for entertainment. It's easier for PVM to turn into repetitive straight forward events for me though, as it's pretty much the same thing over and over. Learning about all the classes and PVPing against different builds takes longer to be repetitive, so i find that more fun. Though i agree, pointless, just like PVM is.

Props to you getting good gear and being able to punishment spam before update.

So after all that writing u did and after my answers. Tell me, what does anything u have been saying have anything to do with xelors being OP? Do u think xelors are OP or not? And if not then what are u doing trying to go against me also trying to say that xelors are not OP?
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I am friends with Nanners, so yeah I remember, but I am talking about beating him post Xelor revamp, so he is in full magmog gear and shit.

@Last comment: I said that Xelors lost pure power, but gained utility so overall I would say that a good Xelor is really, really hard to beat. It is maybe not straight out overpowered, but you make it look like those other classes you mention just 1 button spam the Xelor off the battlefield whenever they please and that is just nonsense. Especially stuff like that immensly limited earth Rogue is so easy to beat.

I was mainly upset since you made everyone look like an idiot that did not agree with your point even though you have a strong tendency to over-exaggerate there. Your first comment indicates that Xelor is actually bound to lose vs most dedicated PvP classes and that is just not true.

P.S.: You should try actual late game PvE, it is very demanding and interesting actually.

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Shaleigh1|2013-08-14 19:37:04
P.S.: You should try actual late game PvE, it is very demanding and interesting actually.

Agreed^, especially when you play multiple characters and have no extra time outside your 30 seconds to make decisions. Yes, some dungeons etc are pushovers, but not all. Those are the ones I enjoy.

MacGyver rocks. Xelor rocks. Even Masks rock.
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i hope they dont lock this thread :/

Shaleigh1|2013-08-14 19:37:04
P.S.: You should try actual late game PvE, it is very demanding and interesting actually.
yeah pve is great! at least i think so. i find pvp boring personally and it serves no purpose i gain nothing from it.
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Shaleigh1|2013-08-14 19:37:04
I am friends with Nanners, so yeah I remember, but I am talking about beating him post Xelor revamp, so he is in full magmog gear and shit.

@Last comment: I said that Xelors lost pure power, but gained utility so overall I would say that a good Xelor is really, really hard to beat. It is maybe not straight out overpowered, but you make it look like those other classes you mention just 1 button spam the Xelor off the battlefield whenever they please and that is just nonsense. Especially stuff like that immensly limited earth Rogue is so easy to beat.

I was mainly upset since you made everyone look like an idiot that did not agree with your point even though you have a strong tendency to over-exaggerate there. Your first comment indicates that Xelor is actually bound to lose vs most dedicated PvP classes and that is just not true.

P.S.: You should try actual late game PvE, it is very demanding and interesting actually.
I actually find UBs fun, but finding a group is another story. Grinding general mobs is fun for the first 30 or 60minutes then i can't handle it forever. This is because i personally find lving way too boring and unrewarding, takes too long, and item drops are too difficult. That to me makes that side of the game too boring.

I was solely discussing the new xelor. Not sure why you brought up post revamp xelor as it has nothing to do with my comments or this thread.

I was stating something obvious, the 4 classes i listed are very strong and i don't see why anyone would argue the point i made. If i said '2+2 = 4 and if u think it's not 4 than u're an idiot' then it's the same thing. U can't argue 2+2 = 5 unless u're an idiot or just arguing for the sake of arguments or fun. And if someone doesn't know what 2+2 equals then they shouldn't be arguing and setting people off and annoying them but instead discussing, which is what caused me to say that in the first place.

And if u hadn't noticed the person who started this thread is indicating that xelors are cheap and overpowered, that means u and ur xelor. I think you are arguing with the wrong person and the wrong side if u think xelors are not cheap and are not overpowered. Kind of annoying when u are targeting me for unrelated matters to the thread, whereas i was on topic.

I was the one that actually sold nanners that zereous blade that later got hacked btw. He will know me. I'm surprised u don't though.
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Post = After

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lol and now i'm an idiot.

If it was post revamp i would love to see it, out of curiosity not to prove a point. I want to see how u can beat a strong earth enu.

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Invite me too if you do, I really cant think of a good way without exploiting bugs... Maybe a sinstro cage?

Btw, I'm actuality not entirely opposed to exploiting bugs, its fun :p, but not very useful in this discussion.

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Of course I was talking post revamp all the time. My posts make that very obvious.

I don't see the problem in beating said earth Enu. What is it you have troubles with there?

The problem is that you think your insights are a simple truth like a mathematical formula when they are really just very exaggerated opinions. You did however create a new running joke in our guild qabout that 3500 average damage masq ^^

So I guess thanks for that.

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Shaleigh1|2013-08-14 17:27:56
3500 damage averaging Masq.

To be clear, it's not 3500 damage average. Once per game it can hit 3500.
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Shaleigh1|2013-08-15 08:14:07
Of course I was talking post revamp all the time. My posts make that very obvious.

I don't see the problem in beating said earth Enu. What is it you have troubles with there?

The problem is that you think your insights are a simple truth like a mathematical formula when they are really just very exaggerated opinions. You did however create a new running joke in our guild qabout that 3500 average damage masq ^^

So I guess thanks for that.

You see how people set me off? On bad days i reply in the same form and end up calling people idiots. Stop trying to cause problems.

I think earth enus destroy xelors because they can hit them easily after xelors teleport at the same time as maintaining good damage, hp and res.

Is there a problem with me wanting to see that match up?

Pointyy|2013-08-15 12:39:00
Shaleigh1|2013-08-14 17:27:56
3500 damage averaging Masq.

To be clear, it's not 3500 damage average. Once per game it can hit 3500.

It's actually 5000+.

3500+ going up to 5000+ depending on resists.
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I am hardly someone that has never PvP'ed and it seems we are playing on the same server. I think I regularly beat many of the people that can be considered PvP specialists at 5th.
u are looking for specialists in a wrong place /@[email protected]/

and yes, 1:0 me vs hulk.
#positioning #magic #dodge
\@[email protected]/

Spoiler (click here to show spoiler)

hope he doesnt go for a rematch later on, otherwise im doomd /@[email protected]\

but yeah, met a fire pander, attempted like 8 times - no luck on winning that.
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@BbeforeA: Maybe you should learn some manners then or calm down a little.

Not a problem at all to watch me PvP btw. I just don't have much time lately to play and if I am I usually prefer PvE stuff like killing all UBs on all chars every week etc. But I am certain we will find some time in between.

I'd like to see one of those magical masqs then too though, please.

Btw remember I never said it was like an easy match up. Earth Enus are way too strong to give anyone an easy match up. 50% win chance I think is about realistic though.

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Shaleigh1|2013-08-15 16:16:18
@BbeforeA: Maybe you should learn some manners then or calm down a little.

Not a problem at all to watch me PvP btw. I just don't have much time lately to play and if I am I usually prefer PvE stuff like killing all UBs on all chars every week etc. But I am certain we will find some time in between.

I'd like to see one of those magical masqs then too though, please.

Btw remember I never said it was like an easy match up. Earth Enus are way too strong to give anyone an easy match up. 50% win chance I think is about realistic though.
I have manners, just not for someone who is constantly trying to attack me and degrade me using stupid arguments when i state fact.

Yeh because PVP takes up a lot of time right. I hope u will find that time within ur busy schedule.

Enjoy ur random statistics. We'll just wait and see what aknama do and that will decide how OP xelors are or are not.

As for masqs, u still haven't read page 2 or have but are unable to understand something so simple.
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a) That random statistic is what I roughly experienced myself so far. Might be totally off, I never claimed this was final truth. Would have to go through a way bigger sample size to actually say anything with certainty.

b) I have yet to see any facts from your side. All you do is make ridiculous claims that nobody else seems to be able to support. Everyone is telling you that you are far off from the truth and all you respond with is "Lel you noobs, l2p". That is bad taste as I have already mentioned.

It is a rather common sign of false presumption I have witnessed in many (online) debates when someone who seems to not be able to back up their own claims stands all alone and starts to accuse those opposing them as the ones suffering from delusions as a last point of defense.

c) The masq thing has - as I stated before - become somewhat of a joke as it marks rather trenchantly the ridiculousness of your assessment of classes in Wakfu. So I am using it for hyperbolic clarification* wink

d) My time shedule is none of your business and should not serve as a spot to attack even if you do not have any real arguments to deliver.

I am trying to find actual results to the balance in PvP. The enu vs xelor thing is proof that I do not claim any of my findings are 100% certain. I might have gotten lucky with crits, positioning or whatever here and maybe my match up is far worse.

Then so be it, I am willing to accept that as I am searching truth and not victory.

Same is true for the other classes and match ups. If you can deliver me any evidence then I will happily accept that I was wrong.

P.S.: I can assure you one thing though, I am neither stupid nor naive. So please refrain from insulting me in that manner any further. Thank you.

*I'd still like to see this in action btw. If it is so strong I consider it very unlikely that nobody has found out yet and actually built this.

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Let me get this straight. Your whole problem with me is because u disagree with what i said which was:

  1. Masqs are capable of dealing 3500+ damage in 1 turn
  2. Rogues being able to deal 3500+ damage in 2 turns
  3. Iops being able to have 7mp, 10ap and 5000+ HP (i've seen a 5800hp Iop in PVP)
  4. A sacrier having one of the hardest hitting spells in the game, can catch a xelor from nearly anywhere and can use cage of blood

I said this because i did not agree with this thread, this thread is making xelors out to be overpowered and cheap. Excluding all the arguments that have been had however weak the opposing views were in my opinion, from those 4 points i used to counter the argument that xelors are so powerful now and 'in a league of their own', which do you have a problem with?

  1. Is it masqs not being able to do 3500+ damage? Even though i proved it with a simple example, and have more.
  2. Is it that earth rogues can't deal 3500+ in 2 turns? And are able to have good mobility thanks to bombs and boombot?
  3. Are you saying iops can't have 10ap, 7mp and 5000+hp? While maintaining good dmg and resist?
  4. Or is it sacriers not being able to transposition and pull, use cage of blood and have 5500+HP?


Let me get something clear, are you here just to argue with me for whatever reason or do you actually care about this thread and the facts i brought forth to try and show Xelors are not cheap and OP? Which is what this thread is about.
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BbeforeA|2013-08-15 18:14:06
Let me get this straight. Your whole problem with me is because u disagree with what i said which was:
  1. Masqs are capable of dealing 3500+ damage in 1 turn
  2. Rogues being able to deal 3500+ damage in 2 turns
  3. Iops being able to have 7mp, 10ap and 5000+ HP (i've seen a 5800hp Iop in PVP)
  4. A sacrier having one of the hardest hitting spells in the game, can catch a xelor from nearly anywhere and can use cage of blood

I said this because i did not agree with this thread, this thread is making xelors out to be overpowered and cheap. Excluding all the arguments that have been had however weak the opposing views were in my opinion, from those 4 points i used to counter the argument that xelors are so powerful now and 'in a league of their own', which do you have a problem with?

  1. Is it masqs not being able to do 3500+ damage? Even though i proved it with a simple example, and have more.
  2. Is it that earth rogues can't deal 3500+ in 2 turns? And are able to have good mobility thanks to bombs and boombot?
  3. Are you saying iops can't have 10ap, 7mp and 5000+hp? While maintaining good dmg and resist?
  4. Or is it sacriers not being able to transposition and pull, use cage of blood and have 5500+HP?


Let me get something clear, are you here just to argue with me for whatever reason or do you actually care about this thread and the facts i brought forth to try and show Xelors are not cheap and OP? Which is what this thread is about.

My Xelor has 1900 base HP. Makafire gogo. Also, all those nasty attacks you talk about do hit very hard. But I'll just steal all your AP's and make them my own. Mwahaha. rolleyes

PS, I suck at playing Xelor, but i'm getting better... slowly.
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Shaleigh1|2013-08-15 17:38:35
b) I have yet to see any facts from your side. All you do is make ridiculous claims that nobody else seems to be able to support. Everyone is telling you that you are far off from the truth and all you respond with is "Lel you noobs, l2p". That is bad taste as I have already mentioned.
He spelled out how its done on page two with all of the spell damage calculations and even went as far as linking to the build set up in wakfu elements.

Responding like this after he posted that means either you cant follow the calculations or never bothered reading it in the first place, a wealth of facts and evidence have been provided so I'm afraid calling you stupid is entirely valid.

Unfortunately, Bbeforea fails to realize that people can bait him into posting angry responses and then use them to attempt to discredit his argument, it is fallacious, but still effective to convince people who rely on their emotions about the poster rather than the content of their actual argument, it is plainly obvious you are no stranger to this tactic Shaleigh1.

Now then, read that post Shaleigh1, then if you find nothing wrong with those calculations you have to give up your position, but if you do then state them and he will have to give up his, please stop baiting him. And Bbeforea before posting responses to people, try to call people out for baiting you rather than responding as you do right now, its far more effective.
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