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Class Revamp 2020 - Feca

By [Ankama]WAKFU - ADMINISTRATOR - December 13, 2019, 16:00:00
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Reactions 158
Score : 505

Perhaps large glyphs that feca's can place in fights that grant different/various buffs (armor, range, damage/elemental resistence, barrier, etc.) if allies step on them!

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Score : 142

I think the best way would be to go with the new Fogger passives, you trade something for something else. Example, a Feca passive that increases shields on allies but decreases shields on yourself, or in the same way increases/decreases glyph effects, if you plan on implementing more support glyphs, or a passive that completely changes the way a spell or a glyph works, like changing Fecablades to instead give movement to allies who start their turn on it, etc.
Or you can implement an active very much alike to Osamodas dragon: call it Staff/Shield. When in Staff state, Feca spells/glyphs are supportive, when in Shield state, Feca spells/glyphs are tank oriented.

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Score : 67

Really, just cause Feca is broken in PvP you want to *revamp* it? Nice play on words there, just say the truth, bunch of butthurt people who got beaten up in PvP against feca wants it nerfed.  Instead on focusing what those people say, can you do us a favour and rework the damn Panda already? I'm waiting for three years already and you still won't do anything about it, i don't get what the fuck is wrong with you people at Ankama.

Even tho it's broken in PvP, that's not the damn reason to destro- *revamp* best tank in the game.

Suspect--|2019-12-14 16:55:53
 
Grook66|2019-12-14 15:43:00
Feca is a powerful tank. Sacriers are powerful in most PvP ( battlefield brackets), so you'd be okay if Sacrier got revamped? A class that you invested a lot of work in, to be altered - to make it fairer. Because that's what would happen if the topic were about Sacriers and Fecas.


No class has ever been reworked with PvP as a focus
Not only would i be ok with a Sacrier revamp, i would fully support and give all my notes, tweaks and improvement ideas to help make it as good as possible
"A class you invested a lot of work in to be altered to make it fairer"
"To make it fairer"
A class should be Fair at the very begining, the fact that you address that Feca currently has an unfair advantage only proves my point

 

"No class has ever been reworked with PvP as a focus?"

"You will be able to keep the current strong tank role of the Feca, or be a strong and reliable protector, but you won’t be able to keep both roles at their maximal potential. You will still be able to cumulate the two roles in a fight, in a more jack-of-all-trades manner because you won’t be as efficient as a character that specialized itself in one of the roles."

This answers your absolutely clueless fact, if you even can call it a fact.

"Not only would i be ok with a Sacrier revamp, i would fully support and give all my notes, tweaks and improvement ideas to help make it as good as possible."

Pretty sure i saw you ranting in wakfu how they "destroyed" your class before AND you're saying it can be *improved* so it means you're not even satisfied with it.
Stop talking before it's too late.

Anyway, if you decide to *revamp* it, talk with people who actually HAVE experience in Feca and has been playing it for coupe of years already, instead of some random sacriers, iops and others.
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Score : 4651

They were going to revamp it anyway, nerfing it is just a bonus.
But no, this isn't about PvP, feca is also too strong in PvE and thus they are nerfing it.

As for panda, they have been already reworked twice, compared to feca and xelor who have only been reworked once ever.

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Score : 1

I agree that Feca are ubiquitous in high end play, but I think that is an indication that other tanks and supports aren't as strong or as fun as they need to be and not necessarily an indication that Feca needs a nerf.  Feca are one of the few classes right new which feels good and plays good, and 
I'm worried changes to Feca rather than buffs to the other tanks/supports makes every tanking class feel bad and play bad. 

Feca being one of the few classes I find fun to play, I'm worried that changes to game play towards a pure support role that enables others to tank could result in less fun for Feca players. I like the class identify of a frontline support, with armors, and glyphs to support the team. But I think the change toward making Feca a class that makes another class more tank-able, makes Feca less fun to play overall and an indication that other tanks might not be as playable as standalone tanks. One of my fears as a player is when the class feels very boring to play, but the gameplay is so strong that devs and other plays and don't think theirs an issue with it and it never gets looked at. By splitting the support and tank roles, that might result in more balance from a gameplay point of view, but much less fun to play overall. I'm not saying that it shouldn't happen, but something else needs to fill in for that fun-ness.

 

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Score : 4348

"One of my fears as a player is when the class feels very boring to play, but the gameplay is so strong that devs and other plays and don't think theirs an issue with it and it never gets looked at "

Doesn't this perfectly describe feca?

Their current gameplay isn't unique. It's extremely flexible in their role so it doesn't add anything to tactics either. By definition of a tactics game Feca is boring. Feca can do everything a tank wants to do while also buffing someone to be worth another damage dealer. That's not fun for anyone since no class in the game can do that. Eni can't buff someone into a damage dealer while healing. They can buff while healing but 20% isn't much, everyone can give 20%. Feca walking around giving 20%-60% and 4 ap then while potentially buffing someone else and shielding them... every turn. It's far too powerful.

The potential to see Feca become a damage dealer or a full time buffer is already more interesting than current Feca. Feca could potentially place glyphs to buff allies or shield them. That would be interesting.

4 -3
Score : 9386

whatever happens with the feca, make sure you don't do what you did with the foggernaut passives.

the downsides on the new foggernaut passives are so big that i actually struggled to WANT to equip more than 3 passives. everything else was a trade not worth making because the passives were actively flying in the face of what i wanted to accomplish, so i ended up relying on the generic passives like carnage.

a class is good when there's lots of options, and the only way there's options is if the passives do not have downsides. otherwise, wanting a certain bonus locks you out of a bunch of passives which deliberately harms your ability to make the bonus you want worthwhile.

don't give the foggernaut problem to feca in the first place! i know that this game's dev cycle doesn't allow you to go back and fix things for several years, so don't even begin to put negative effects on the feca passives. just don't do it. it's not good, people won't want to equip the passives, and you'll have done all that work for nothing, because you gave the foggernaut like 20 passives and only 3 are playable.

the spell deck system was supposed to enable you to make a bunch of powerful passives that we had to choose between. it doesn't work if you make 20 weak passives that are fighting for 5/6 slots but then have conflicting downsides that don't actually allow you to specialise because you are too weak to do the job you're trying to build for.

you could literally remove the downsides from every foggernaut passive and then merge them so there's half as many passives that do twice as much and it still wouldn't be as strong as iop or ougi.

so please, don't do that to feca. and if possible, undo it from fog so that fog players don't have to deal with that for 2-3 years before it gets seen. it's not too late to fix foggernaut and it's not too soon to avoid doing the same to feca.

if you want feca to have to choose between roles, then make the base kit weak, give the passive lots of power, and then keep in mind that we can only equip 5/6 passives! they balance themselves because you can't have all of them at once. fecas are forced to choose what build they want BECAUSE they can't equip every passive at once. adding negative effects into passives is an inelegant solution to a problem that already has a better solution and doesn't make the class feel so bad that people class change their foggernauts into ecaflips. *whistles innocently*

TL;DR: the downside to every passive is that it takes up a passive slot. the passives don't additionally need negative effects that hamstring you while also taking up a passive slot. so don't put any negative effects in passives, unless the passive is like... GODLY strong.

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Score : 4651

What if they give everyone weak passives in the passive rework this year?

Then they would all be balanced, but there wouldn't be as much of a power spike when you gain passive slots

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Score : 502

have you already ruined the steamer now are you also spoiling the feca? but how do you work? instead of letting people play, you make them run away. compliments!!

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Score : -3048

isn't foggernaut almost as strong as before?

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Score : 964

I just have to ask; why so many revamps? Since beta everything ever has been revamped. Now a passive revamp too... apparently? What's the issue? Shouldn't the game be left to breathe and the meta evolve?

I've come back after like a 6 year hiatus so I am not the best informed, but still. I can't imagine always changing everything is a positive and now that I've just gotten back into learning my class, I'm hearing there's gonna be a passive revamp. I don't want to re-learn Sacrier, Xelor, or w/e for the 4th time.

 

ichiga-kenshin|2020-06-18 14:03:46
all mmorpg have revamps in their systems through the time, thats is a main point of the genre, is not static like offline rpg, for example, wow has changes in talents and skills on every single patch, bdo, aion etc, their worlds is always progresing 


This is usually because abilities are added, usually during expansions, and things that are unnecessary or deprecated are removed, not simply for the sake of reworking. I don't think it's fair to say that normal balancing is comparable to an entire class revamp either. Ninja from FFXIV for example went through a rework, and while now it's less supportive, I wouldn't be halfway lost playing it. I can't say the same happens in Wakfu. Not to mention this is apparently a very strong core class for groups and as I understand it, it's being revamped because it's simply too good at its main job while being able to support. So after this what happens? Who is next in the chopping block? Iop, Sacrier, Pandas? Whoever tanks best? It sounds like a class doing what it's designed to do right. They can always nerf or adjust its capabilities but a full revamp that changes its role doesn't make much sense to me. I'd go as far as saying it's probably really disruptive to end game players.

Also I'd say that the point of MMOs is them being played in mass, but that's neither here or there right now.
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Score : 32

all mmorpg have revamps in their systems through the time, thats is a main point of the genre, is not static like offline rpg, for example, wow has changes in talents and skills on every single patch, bdo, aion etc, their worlds is always progresing 

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Score : 4651

Next on the chopping block is osamodas, xelor and masquaraider, plus all the passives and the control stat.
But other then that, they already reworked all the classes except eniripsa, sadida, sram and ecaflip

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Score : 964

Do we know anything about the passives revamps?

Pleasegoddon'tmakethemhavenegativeeffectslikefoggers

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Score : 69

So i tried feca on the beta server and PLEASEdo not do what you are trying to do there!

I literally could not place glyphs for 2 turns and get restricted in actions in every corner. This is  just straight up killing the feca and even if he gets buffed it is just too much of a nerf.

You basically make the feca lack any kind of specialty as every elemental skill acts the exact same, just with different effects. This is boring, too restricting due to the 2 turn cooldown for most things (ESPECIALLY SUPPORT)

Also most passives are just too weak and even more restricting to "make up for it". let the feca keep different glyphs and attacks and don't just smash everything into one mish mash skill that works the same as every other skill. At least give him variety in skills.

For the love of feca, PLEASE rework the new skills entirely!

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Score : 1

So, basically, Feca is done for? If I want a fresh tank character (that will be useful for dungeoneering groups) better to start with Sacrier/Iop now?

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Score : 947

yes dude! now you are forced to change your team because feca won't be a tank anymore,
But don't worry ,buy a class change and everyone will be satisfied  :-)

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Score : 7702

I really think they should start giving a class change whenever a class is reworked.

It is pretty much an entirely new character.

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Score : 34

As a someone who started playing the game 1,5 week ago this nerf feels like an insult to me. I was running Cra, Enu and Feca as my main 3 and now I feel like all that effort I put into leveling them went to trashcan. I guess I need to pick a healer as 3rd spot from now on..

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Score : 140

I'm having a doubt about how Shields work. In the last weeks of the beta period, if I haven't missed any change, the recast delay of the same Shield casted on the same Ally has been deleted and reintroduced as part of Master of Shields passive.

Please correct me if I'm wrong. Now problem is that this it seems to be so on Feca only (I can spam every turn the same shield on myself) but not on Allies, but I see no indication of it in any tooltip.

Is this a bug or intended?

Thanks.

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Score : 335

I am actually getting surprised how easily you guys can turn a good character into.. this.

From 200+ perspective, Feca can barely do anything now.
It can't move freely around enemy units, because both teleport and bubble armor were taken away. It can't buff allies properly, because pretty much everything that feca can offer is a couple of unreliable armor buffs and bunch of weird things nobody will ever use, such as "1350 armor if the unit didn't get hit" ones.
It can't reduce enemy damage% anymore, because.. well.. it was pretty much removed entirely.
It can't properly give armor to anyone, even itself.

Fire branch spells are literally the same value in fight
"Every spell is a glyph now!11!" is literally just the same damage glyph placed by different spells. They don't even have anything special in them. They just do damage, that's all.

In the end, you made an immobile, armorless and tasteless class archetype that nobody will ever use. 
The only reason I leave feca as my alt is because I have a very good mimic set on her, nothing else.

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Score : 113

I am level 45 and this new feca just doesn't seem good anymore.. I was building on zone damage.. now there's one zone spell in melee and glyph that you can place 2 times so it damage 2 turn after that you are out of WP when using the passive for range AOE glyph.. and shield doesn't seem to be relevant with all the thing require to do. His shield look like what a summon would give to other character not a main character. Well it's my opinion and I didn't test much yet but I like the idea of turning the feca to a buff shield like he's suppose to be but right now he feel really weak, give me a shield that send back spell to attacker and maybe instead of buffing a glyph on the ground, buff ally shield too?

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Score : 178

To me, this class is barely recognizable and not at all usable like it was before the 'revamp'. I don't quite know how I will replace mine, but this I can say: my booster is up today and I'm not renewing it. I'm also not inclined to reward you by giving you money for a class change scroll. I realize this isn't a train station (and I'm not quite leaving), but you asked for feedback on the changes. Rethinking the changes or, at the very least, issuing a free class change to affected users, would probably go a long way for many. At the very least, some response to the feedback that's coming in would be appreciated.

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Score : 140

Exactly, my booster ends today and i'm considering not renewing it after buying it for 6 straigth months, this rework is a big setback and i'm completely pissed at how many times that i have to pass my turn with many PAs left because there isn't any usefull skills to use due to their limitations, situational benefits or lack of range, if they don't change it back probably i'm done with the game for now.

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Score : 922

I'm not usually one to go whine on forums about how ankama ruined xxxx part of the game. But this one realllllly sucks.

I'll start with the (very few) pros, just to be nice: 

I like the passive format now. More passive options, each with benefits and drawbacks. Being able to buff your damage, for instance, while reducing team shielding. That's what passives should do, I think. 

Fecas are really good at buffing their resistance now. It frees up players to choose a more damage-oriented set. Still, the resistance passive is gone, so now you have to take up active slots...

Now the cons:

None of the damage spells are interesting. Literally none of them. They all just do damage, with low-normal dmg/ap ratios. They're all single target. They're all short range. The only special effect is dodge steal (!) which is useless because of the AP/MP loss cap (when failing a dodge, only a maximum # of ap/mp can be lost, even if it's 0 dodge vs 3000 lock). Most tanks easily get over 1500 lock and it's rarely useful to go beyond that - or to steal dodge.

Glyphs are absolutely pointless. They are short-lasting, small, and cost 2 wp (!!) which makes them utterly unappealing. They also have no additional effects without a passive. Glyphs of the first iteration of fecas (different glyph for every spell, which could be moved with water spells) were really cool! Glyphs for the second iteration (one glyph each element with different effects, immoveable) were fine for their purpose. These are literally useless. Why would you make things progressively less interesting?

Armors are terrible. The fixed shield point values are lower than they should be for an shielding class (at worst, you could change it to be 400 fixed shield on allies, 800 fixed on self, for example). Shield points lasting for infinite duration is good....but it should also apply to the  armors themselves. That is, if you're going to make a stupid armor that gives shield points only if you don't receive damage for a full round...it should be a permanent state that gives you armor every time you go a round without taking damage. Likewise the AoE damage armors, etc. 

I understand that fecas were too powerful in their previous archetype. But they were already a very dull class to play (just too good not to play). Now they're somehow even more boring. And also much worse. RIP

 

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Score : 891

I am quite dissapointed as well, I followed the topic of the new feca since the beta. Today i played it first time and it feels very awkward. The different Conditons are super complicated - its difficult to build a team with the new feca since most of the Spells are so specialized to certain situations that are hard to predict / fullfill. i.E. whats the thing about a shield with that triggers when you are not getting damaged. This feels so random. Why should someone put hope in this trigger if there are other ways (i.E. Healing) to restore the damage without this condition.
Also the new passive System feels not like a boost to the feca abilities but more like a decision about the playstyle, its kind of weird.

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Hello,

Let me start this post by thanking you all for your posts. I also feel like I want to tell you that I'm not the kind of person who gives up a project. I'll see it through to the end no matter what. And right now, I'm not satisfied with Feca either.

We had technical problems with the worldwide health situation which delayed the opening of the Beta for several weeks. And so we had a really short reaction time to adjust the revamp with your feedback (because I also had to deal with dungeons/items/quests). But this information is not an excuse. I just wanted to tell you that it's a more complicated revamp than the others and that I had planned to make some improvements after the release anyway. I know it's not exciting to read, but that's the reality of the context. In any case, at this point the only thing we can do is to focus on our unfinished businesses.

A lot of players confuse a class that works with a class that performs. This confusion is normal, I think.
You have to understand that if the core doesn't work, you can put the values you want in it, the result will remain wrong. If the core works and the values are not good, the hardest part is already done and we are sure to have a top class at the end.
As such, I always prefer a healthy core and low values, values can be improved later.

It's so much easier for us to tweak a class so that it works well, rather than revamping it. Unfortunately, some classes simply cannot be tweaked. The priority of the moment is to take care of them. Then we'll be able to have fun on smaller, cooler improvements.

I've already implemented some improvements & debugs that you'll discover in tomorrow's hotfix.

At the same time, I'm preparing a bigger improvements package that you'll discover in the following weeks. The goal is to give back a feeling of clarity to the Feca, and add a drive on its in-game actions. I think his kit is pretty good (you can add 10-15% to all the values if you want), and it has the two signatures of the Feca: glyphs and shields.

However these signatures lack connections, and a real motivation to be played with the kit.
In my opinion, it lacks a WP management layer that would make it possible to do more important things, and that would drive the players' actions by giving them an importance that goes beyond their simple use depending on the context.

This improvement pack contains 3 major changes that I can introduce here :

1) I have imagined 3 new passives.
2) I'm going to redistribute the unlocking level of the passives on levels 0 to 100 (for the Foggernaut too).
3) I'm still thinking about deep improvements on glyphs, and on some spells.

New passives :
Two new passives will be about the Protector role.
I don't rule out reworking some of the current passives if they are deemed too weak or uninteresting for most builds. I also do not exclude adding more later.

Passives unlocked earlier :
This is a recurring request from the community and we don't mind going along with it, despite the fact that we're losing one of the rewards related to leveling.
It makes the final gameplay of the class accessible and understandable for everyone at level 100, and we think that's a good point.

Glyphs:
For the glyphs I'd like to do something a little more "crowd control". I had already made some tests and proposals but I think we need the Feca to be a class that stands on equal footing with its direct competitors (although they are sometimes too strong). And it's an axis that needs a little more power.

And I foresee many other things, you can believe me. The values are going to move a lot.

A lot.

I hope to be able to share something more concrete with you soon. Thank you for all your comments, feedback and trust.

See you soon,

Siu.

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Score : -787

The wrong is spells, not by passive or anything, plss.With old feca, the glyp can conect with other, stack with, spell get good effective if you mix it, fire trap stack with water, enemy both get dmg ad be remove ap, bubble can use with teleport may feca can be helpfull, buff and give ap for another char, many full push effect give u freedom and smart in battle, cause everyspells, It alway have the conect bettwen us. How about feca now, i cant find the connect bettwen it, both passive and spell, they totally different, cant mix, fire do dmg, water do dmg, earth do dmg, glyp do dmg and less effect, cant stack with other glyp. feca now just seftfish. compare with old feca, if some allies say: i need help. Ok 1 sec. Now: i need help, feca: i cant 

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Score : 7702

I have a couple of concerns about the new Feca, about it's Protector playstyle:

1).- Most of the support playstyles of the game are meant to be (or at least are more efficient) played from distance. Fecas are supposed to be the ones shielding the allies from the back. The thing is, the average range of the spells is 1-3 which is extremely low for such an important member of the group, you have to invest into range to make the gameplay viable on big maps specially now that the Teleport is locked behind Peace Armor (a Tank Active Spell which has the side effect of disabling the possibility of applying armors on allies). Protector Fecas don't have a reliable way to get to the allies. An increase of the base range of the spells or the addition of a new passive that reinforced this stat in exchange for, let's say, -5% of armor given (similar to Eniripsa's passive spell Expert Healer) would be awesome.

2).- As an Eniripsa main, when I heal I have the tool to make sure everyone gets a heal even if it is small. With the new Feca, it isn't possible to be there for everyone. The Armors are just too restricted, you literally have to decide who lives and who dies because you are unable to really keep everyone alive. I know that the intention of this restriction is to make the whole gameplay more strategic and give armor when the target needs it. I'm not asking to go back and just give free 4k shields to anyone at anytime, but it would be great if there was a more direct and not so complicated way to shield allies or more synergy between the spells. Maybe add one that works similarly to Here Mark where everytime someone gets an Armor the other allies receives a small percentage of it so you can slowly build it on them over the course of the turns, more tools to make the role more efficient instead of separated spells that don't have any interaction between them.

3).- Concerning to the Glyphs, I've tried some stuff in the official server and I don't really feel they are very influential throughout the fight. They are a decent source of damage but that's it, you have to equip the passive Elemental Glyphs to make them interesting.


I'm really looking forward for the changes! Thanks for listening to the feedback huh

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Score : 6267

I agree with the short-range issue, and especially so with no push or escape mechanisms. Most of the time you are hindered trying to get to anyone because a single monster will end up in your way - not to mention those turns when a monster starts their turn next to you, and the only thing you can do now is try and Dodge (Wasting AP/MP)

The support Feca really needs better tools for map navigating/targeting.


And yes, also in agreement with the other points. Everything on the current Feca feels staggered and conditional, which makes it incredibly unreliable and simply unfun to play at its base.
Other classes usually have mechanics that pay off extra gameplay-worth when synnergy and conditions fall nicely in place. The Feca's 'mechanics' on the other hand simply seem to exist to restrain or limit his base potential and provide little to zero tactical comfort

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Score : 489

i understand what you devs are planning ....but maybe you aren't understand the player's point of view:
you can add every gliph that you want,you can give us any type of shield, but  first if you give us a new type of buff(like armor given-received)you have to add this buff in every  lv equip: feca lv 200 is pretty useless while feca lv 215 is not
and second but not less important is the possibility to use this buff: if you lock spells in range and give no movement spell ,i repeat good movement spell, noone will use that char simply because the protector won't do his job because can't follow everyone in the group .you are trying to make a new char but i hope that you are aware that old feca was just perfect as it was.
you wanted to nerf ? fine, you could create a passive that don't allow him to tank while he buff(like you did) and stop.

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