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Fecas Trivializing End Game

By peppersxiu - MEMBER - February 23, 2016, 20:02:57

Idk how this goes unseen but Fecas are trivializing all end game content, making the game absourdly easier than it was suppose to be.

If you disagree, you are probabily in denail, but if you realy not convinced try to do dungeons with other tanks on its place and will notice a significantly increase in challenge (if you don't discover that you simply can't, cause now you would have to, errm, you know, play well and stuff... )

If you want make an mental excercise of removing Fecas from the game, and try to make groups and strategys to reliably farm xel and pós-xel content...

If you made that excercise sincerely you can see that on this Fecaless reality the Tank role could be filled by Sacriers, Iop, Sadida, Foggers, Pandas, Eni... and prob Eleotropes and Enus too.

Almost every class on the game has some sort of tool that would let it build tanky and be usefull to assume that role, but that doesn't and won't ever happen because Feca set the standards, unreachable standards to any tank but the feca himself.

Ty for atention.

And remember I don't hate you, I just think you are broken.

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peppersxiu|2016-02-23 20:02:57
Idk how this goes unseen but Fecas are trivializing all end game content, making the game absourdly easier than it was suppose to be.

If you disagree, you are probabily in denail, but if you realy not convinced try to do dungeons with other tanks on its place and will notice a significantly increase in challenge (if you don't discover that you simply can't, cause now you would have to, errm, you know, play well and stuff... )

If you want make an mental excercise of removing Fecas from the game, and try to make groups and strategys to reliably farm xel and pós-xel content...

If you made that excercise sincerely you can see that on this Fecaless reality the Tank role could be filled by Sacriers, Iop, Sadida, Foggers, Pandas, Eni... and prob Eleotropes and Enus too.

Almost every class on the game has some sort of tool that would let it build tanky and be usefull to assume that role, but that doesn't and won't ever happen because Feca set the standards, unreachable standards to any tank but the feca himself.

Ty for atention.

And remember I don't hate you, I just think you are broken.
1.) You've taken this to the wrong part of the forums, you're going to get eaten alive in here

2.) If you don't want to have your end game content made much easier by fecas, don't party with them

3.) I'm sorry our class fufills its role properly

4.) Sadida is not made to hold enemies in place short of surrounding it with dolls, Enu can't hold things in place short of lock, Iop at least has stabilize but poor MP removal, Pandas are in the same boat as Iops, Enis don't have ANY passives that suggest they should be tanking. Eliotropes are bad. Period. They need buffs and a specified role. Sacriers lack stabilization, give sacs a stabilize once every two turns and they'll be better at tanking than fecas, just worse at support.

Fecas have everything they need to do their job effectively, nerf us and you need to nerf all end-game content. Making feca only as good of a tank as an elio, enu, sac, panda, etc. would make us useless. Take your salt and leave.
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So fed up about people moaning, saying op classes and just being dumb... Why bother man, its PVE, eh even 1 v 1 Feca is broken but there are many ways to fix this and satisfy yourself...

IF you think feca is broken then why not go to SB, Kanni and Tropico Dungeon without a Feca... If you think a class is too easy for you, delete that character and play something harder.

These things can be fixed without asking for attention or dumb "support" about your post... Feca is Feca, Cra is Cra... all classes in this game has a job. Feca and Sadida gets so much attention because people notice them far more often than other classes.

I have seen Sram, Rogue, Masq, Iop and etc doing their job properly and no-one gives a shiz but when a Feca does his job, all hell goes loose.

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I must say considering the meta really NEED current Feca existance, you can't simply nerf it. Rather ask to buff other tanks/support to be equal to Feca, aka to make Feca replaceable.

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Kikuihimonji|2016-02-23 21:56:21
I must say considering the meta really NEED current Feca existance, you can't simply nerf it. Rather ask to buff other tanks/support to be equal to Feca, aka to make Feca replaceable.

Agree with these 100%, this game would get unnecessary harder if feca was nerf. Buff the tanks don't nerf the Feca.
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Delaz|2016-02-23 22:03:17
Kikuihimonji|2016-02-23 21:56:21
I must say considering the meta really NEED current Feca existance, you can't simply nerf it. Rather ask to buff other tanks/support to be equal to Feca, aka to make Feca replaceable.

Agree with these 100%, this game would get unnecessary harder if feca was nerf. Buff the tanks don't nerf the Feca.


I'd take the complete opposite stance: other tanks don't really need buffs, they work. I'm with OP on that Fecas are just way over the top with what they can do and thus trivialize game content...and are undeniably bad for the game meta. Many other classes got balance tweaks since spell deck patch, why not re-adress Fecas?

The problem with Fecas is (imo) not, that they can tank, others can do that too, but the amount of support they can dish out WHILE being the main tank. Ankama could literally cut all Feca buffs and debuffs down to 1/4th of what they are, and Fecas would still be worth their party slot. If that is not bad balancing, then I don't know what is.

Also, the game doesn't "need" Feca existence...the "meta" might, cause people try to apply the same strategy to everything, but the game doesn't. Take a team of actually strong characters/players and you can beat stuff without Fecas. A Meta of 1-2shotting endgame bosses sounds fundamentally wrong and screams "bad character/game design" to me.
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If feca was nerfed people would just carry around Sadis along with Fecas and achieve the same result just as easily.

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wink 
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Y-ster|2016-02-23 21:33:02

3.) I'm sorry our class fufills its role properly


^
except I'm not sorry
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hugoegon|2016-02-24 00:52:44
Delaz|2016-02-23 22:03:17
Kikuihimonji|2016-02-23 21:56:21
I must say considering the meta really NEED current Feca existance, you can't simply nerf it. Rather ask to buff other tanks/support to be equal to Feca, aka to make Feca replaceable.

Agree with these 100%, this game would get unnecessary harder if feca was nerf. Buff the tanks don't nerf the Feca.


I'd take the complete opposite stance: other tanks don't really need buffs, they work. I'm with OP on that Fecas are just way over the top with what they can do and thus trivialize game content...and are undeniably bad for the game meta. Many other classes got balance tweaks since spell deck patch, why not re-adress Fecas?

The problem with Fecas is (imo) not, that they can tank, others can do that too, but the amount of support they can dish out WHILE being the main tank. Ankama could literally cut all Feca buffs and debuffs down to 1/4th of what they are, and Fecas would still be worth their party slot. If that is not bad balancing, then I don't know what is.

Also, the game doesn't "need" Feca existence...the "meta" might, cause people try to apply the same strategy to everything, but the game doesn't. Take a team of actually strong characters/players and you can beat stuff without Fecas. A Meta of 1-2shotting endgame bosses sounds fundamentally wrong and screams "bad character/game design" to me.
possibly 1/2 current buff rate would be fair, but nerfing fecas only makes things harder for the rest of you.
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Score : 4396
hugoegon|2016-02-24 00:52:44
Delaz|2016-02-23 22:03:17
Kikuihimonji|2016-02-23 21:56:21
I must say considering the meta really NEED current Feca existance, you can't simply nerf it. Rather ask to buff other tanks/support to be equal to Feca, aka to make Feca replaceable.

Agree with these 100%, this game would get unnecessary harder if feca was nerf. Buff the tanks don't nerf the Feca.


I'd take the complete opposite stance: other tanks don't really need buffs, they work. I'm with OP on that Fecas are just way over the top with what they can do and thus trivialize game content...and are undeniably bad for the game meta. Many other classes got balance tweaks since spell deck patch, why not re-adress Fecas?

The problem with Fecas is (imo) not, that they can tank, others can do that too, but the amount of support they can dish out WHILE being the main tank. Ankama could literally cut all Feca buffs and debuffs down to 1/4th of what they are, and Fecas would still be worth their party slot. If that is not bad balancing, then I don't know what is.

Also, the game doesn't "need" Feca existence...the "meta" might, cause people try to apply the same strategy to everything, but the game doesn't. Take a team of actually strong characters/players and you can beat stuff without Fecas. A Meta of 1-2shotting endgame bosses sounds fundamentally wrong and screams "bad character/game design" to me.
+1

@Blaz, 1. Having a job slipt between 2 classes is a good thing. That'd be having a Tank and Support not a TAnk support + damage dealer or placeholder class X.
2. Considering the first part, no, you would not achieve the same results. Especially not in the same time frame, straight lies.
3. -resist isn't the only problem. 30% final damage on two targets + 20% damage dealt for everyone, ALONGside, map manpulation, the strongest spell in the game(perfect shield) and AP given(That could potentially double) is a problem. They could do all that in one turn. 50%+ extra damage on a DD > A sacrier spamming Rocky foot = Sadida with a 5 dolls = Panda in worn out/Barrel bashing. Didn't even mention the -resist.

Almost every tank if not all tanks have their ability to damage reduced by taking the tank route. But not Feca. Feca damage doesn't come from feca, If you added 20% damage to every damage dealer who attacked the bos, you'd probably already reach over Sadida full potential, now add another 30% final damage to one person (You could do two, but lets be fair). This can happen every turn. Along side a 1-6 2 person transport, AP given, and some other buffs like range.

Equipment is a factor too, and Tanks don't wear DD equipment. But Feca buffs that guy that is. I'm pretty sure I've explained this before though, along side some calculations. Feca being able to buff 100%+ final damage isn't fair.

Now the argument to buff tanks to FEca level is false. Gotta Buff every class to Feca level. All classes should be able to damage and remove -4 mp at the same time for 3 turns with a 1 turn realistic cool down or 4 ap, Should have an resist passive, a transport 2 ap 1-6 transport, 3 ap shield with 40 ap/armor ratio.

Sacrier should only rocky foot once and be half coagulation, His transport should cost 2 ap permanently, Double.. no,triple his damage. Give him -1 MP removal per motion sickness activation and we're set. Should be strong enough to compete with Feca.
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Hearttyace|2016-02-24 05:41:14
hugoegon|2016-02-24 00:52:44
Delaz|2016-02-23 22:03:17
Kikuihimonji|2016-02-23 21:56:21
I must say considering the meta really NEED current Feca existance, you can't simply nerf it. Rather ask to buff other tanks/support to be equal to Feca, aka to make Feca replaceable.

Agree with these 100%, this game would get unnecessary harder if feca was nerf. Buff the tanks don't nerf the Feca.


I'd take the complete opposite stance: other tanks don't really need buffs, they work. I'm with OP on that Fecas are just way over the top with what they can do and thus trivialize game content...and are undeniably bad for the game meta. Many other classes got balance tweaks since spell deck patch, why not re-adress Fecas?

The problem with Fecas is (imo) not, that they can tank, others can do that too, but the amount of support they can dish out WHILE being the main tank. Ankama could literally cut all Feca buffs and debuffs down to 1/4th of what they are, and Fecas would still be worth their party slot. If that is not bad balancing, then I don't know what is.

Also, the game doesn't "need" Feca existence...the "meta" might, cause people try to apply the same strategy to everything, but the game doesn't. Take a team of actually strong characters/players and you can beat stuff without Fecas. A Meta of 1-2shotting endgame bosses sounds fundamentally wrong and screams "bad character/game design" to me.
+1

@Blaz, 1. Having a job slipt between 2 classes is a good thing. That'd be having a Tank and Support not a TAnk support + damage dealer or placeholder class X.
2. Considering the first part, no, you would not achieve the same results. Especially not in the same time frame, straight lies.
3. -resist isn't the only problem. 30% final damage on two targets + 20% damage dealt for everyone, ALONGside, map manpulation, the strongest spell in the game(perfect shield) and AP given(That could potentially double) is a problem. They could do all that in one turn. 50%+ extra damage on a DD > A sacrier spamming Rocky foot = Sadida with a 5 dolls = Panda in worn out/Barrel bashing. Didn't even mention the -resist.

Almost every tank if not all tanks have their ability to damage reduced by taking the tank route. But not Feca. Feca damage doesn't come from feca, If you added 20% damage to every damage dealer who attacked the bos, you'd probably already reach over Sadida full potential, now add another 30% final damage to one person (You could do two, but lets be fair). This can happen every turn. Along side a 1-6 2 person transport, AP given, and some other buffs like range.

Equipment is a factor too, and Tanks don't wear DD equipment. But Feca buffs that guy that is. I'm pretty sure I've explained this before though, along side some calculations. Feca being able to buff 100%+ final damage isn't fair.

Now the argument to buff tanks to FEca level is false. Gotta Buff every class to Feca level. All classes should be able to damage and remove -4 mp at the same time for 3 turns with a 1 turn realistic cool down or 4 ap, Should have an resist passive, a transport 2 ap 1-6 transport, 3 ap shield with 40 ap/armor ratio.

Sacrier should only rocky foot once and be half coagulation, His transport should cost 2 ap permanently, Double.. no,triple his damage. Give him -1 MP removal per motion sickness activation and we're set. Should be strong enough to compete with Feca.
lol someone plays favorites. Air sac is already very strong. Triple it's dmg? new metagame dmg dealer no contest. It can also position things stupidly well.

Problem with feca is that they can't go any other route other than tank/support. So most of their kit is designed around doing that and doing that well. Other tank classes, foggernaut, sacriers, panda, etc all have other options available to them.

Stop complaining that Feca is the streamlined tank and other tanks have different options available to them that feca can't compete with. The problem with other tanks is that their kit isnt designed solely and specifically for tanking and literally dishing out 0 dmg. Feca's dmg route relies on glyphs which dont matter against bosses in the slightest because of invulnerability mechanics.

Feca does deal more dmg because of leather plating and other buffs the feca can do like meteor and ap. This is all true, but relies on its teammates significantly more than the other "tank" classes. I've been saying since spell deck revamp no tank can match feca because leather plating is just so strong.

If we're talking about changing leather plating then we can have a real discussion here, but people just wanna buff and nerf classes willy nilly.
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Y-ster|2016-02-24 03:40:37
possibly 1/2 current buff rate would be fair


Yeah what I meant was, even with 1/4th of the value they would totally be a viable addition to a party and find a slot, doesn't mean I'd go that far. 1/2 still make them outstanding at the support-tank role, which would be fine, it's their job after all. Ofc a nerf doesn't have to be that drastical per se. Either way, I guess we can agree, that the current values are extremely high, without any justification by Ankama (that I know of) as to why they should be.

Y-ster|2016-02-24 03:40:37
but nerfing fecas only makes things harder for the rest of you.


And how is that a bad thing? Endgame content is supposed to be challenging.

"Play without a feca if you don't like them" is a decent advice, I do that.

Problematic is, that the current "feca meta" is so implemented into the majority of players brains, that it gets hard to find a party slot with other classes, when not running with friends. Fecas made runs so easy, that many people seem to have forgotten how to play the game without. E.g. try applying to a random group on Remington with a Panda as Steelbeak tank...they'll quite likely just keep spamming for feca instead, cause they don't even believe it can be done without.

Now, I would never want to touch the Feca identity of being the Tank/Support king, it's what they are and that's good.
However, when Spelldecks got introduced, Ankama seems to have had in mind, that you have to decide between your possible roles for a given fight/task. E.g. Sacrier has to chose between being a beefier tank and being a better map manipulator with more range, Panda, who used to be "bit of everything" can now chose between being a better DD, better Tank, or better Healer than they were before, but not simultaneously.

So, why not re-adress Feca in the same manner?
Make it depend on your passive choices how well they can support, or tank. E.g. Make the standard final dmg buff of meteors cap at 10%*, have a passive that doubles it. Maybe make tonic glyphs 1 per turn, have a passive that doubles it etc. In the same manner, make the tanking skills weaker by default (e.g. increase cooldowns on stabilize, peace armor etc?) and bound to a passive that buffs them back to the current values.
That way you could totally bring a full support feca with you into your team, that is still at least off-tank level of tanky, and can buff your whole team nicely (or maybe even bring back the more or less squishy backline support/dd feca builds, that I think used to exist), or bring a "main tank" feca with you, who could still be good at supporting people for a tank, just not stronger than a dedicated supporter, which is currently the case.

*Mind you, all "values" I'm talking are just some random numbers...don't take them at face value, I'm just trying to get convey ideas. I know Fecas already have passives, but apparently the current ones don't alter the roles drastically enough.

SpiritualEnigma|2016-02-24 09:47:43


Problem with feca is that they can't go any other route other than tank/support...

Feca does deal more dmg because of leather plating and other buffs the feca can do like meteor and ap. This is all true, but relies on its teammates significantly more than the other "tank" classes. I've been saying since spell deck revamp no tank can match feca because leather plating is just so strong.

If we're talking about changing leather plating then we can have a real discussion here, but people just wanna buff and nerf classes willy nilly.

--- off-topic rambling coming, skip if not interested, sry biggrin

Sadly buffs to teammates are extremely hard to balance. Buffs that can be OK by themselves, can get insane if combined, especially when focused on one guy.

This is a Feca independent matter (other than fecas being the best at dishing out buffs). My only (unpopular) idea that I'd have for the dev team, to make it easier on them, is to go lighter on these mechanics.

If content was generally more demanding, and classes had less tools by themselves (e.g. with spelldeck patch somehow a ton of classes gained ressurrections, or map control options etc, that they didn't have before), then you could create a game, where Tanks and Supports are needed because they are needed (that is, others simply getting eaten alive by the mobs; map control, distractions, ap/mp chip, range reduce etc. being essential to make it through a dungeon) and not because they can increase other peoples damage enough to make them essentially just fill another DD slot through buffs. Fecas would then simply have the option to join a group either as a needed tank, or as a needed support - just like e.g. a Sacrier would have the option of joining as a tank or as a DD.

I know this is going too far (complete rebalance/redesign of many game aspects), sry for going off-topic.
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"If the game its too easy with feca play without then".

Idk if this is to be considered a falacy, or just a simple total disregard of common sense when making an argument.

I ll make the effort of taking this argument seriously anyway.

Well I can't play alone as i'm not a multi-acc, and neither should I have to be able to do it, because the game isn't made with this purpose.

Also its important to notice that making the end game challenging its not the way I want to play it, or they way I find more fun, instead imo its the way its healthy for the game.

So changing my gameplay only wouldn't adress the problem of the game health, possibility of growth and etc, this is my concern.

We are not kids (hopefully) so we all know what happens when we get things easily... its just not at all as rewarding, and mostly likely will bore you doing so... because instead of mental and strategy challenge you get a chore of doing this steps 1-2-3 100 times = reward.

I'll assume I don' t need to explain why Grind its worst to game healthy than actual challenge?

End game its not suppose to be hard? Well this arguable, but we can all agree its suppose to be epic and remarkable.

And how do you do an epic and remarkable game of Chess per example? with scholar's mate? absolutely not ofc...

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I completely agree with you guys that fecas has not any option of role, aside from the roles they all are stuck with and thus they are absolutely perfect on then its the least expected.

But I don't think this is ok at all.... Feca can't be perfect on their 2 jobs at the same time and make all other attempts of trying that beeing just "almost like a feca" at very best.

No.

So we have a problem, feca its too strong at its roles and make content bs.

Ok, but we can't nerf fecas right? Didn't asked to did I?

Because they only have that role and nerfing then to "as good as others that have diversity" will make then quite lame.

I Agree.

So ok? What do we do? Buff other tanks will produce same results and trivialize the content even more, if something its broken you don' t break others to equal then.

Well my solution would then make fecas having the same diversity as all other classes have. Then they wouldn't have to be absourdly op on the roles they are stuck with.

I'm pretty sure lots of people would want to have a dpt feca or dmg/support or a combo gliph burst Feca, but they can't... this is lame I agree and also needs to adressed equaly, if possible at the same time to not make feca useless the time in between those changes.

And remember I don't hate you, I just think you are broken.

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LOL, this is dumb, dumb op... Has a Feca and complains about it being op....doesnt even bother understanding how weak it is at damage or any other type of area... You see all the good things about Feca you should be happy about, not complain n shiz.

You know, without a broken Feca, or even a Feca at all in Kanni Dungeon... I am just wondering, is it possible?

Knowing this original poster, you are probably too low to do Kanni Dungeon and understand what the mechanics yet... Soon young padawa, you will understand Feca ain't broken but fits in well with the current content. They are not BALANCED or OP, they FIT IN WELL,

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You are a very disrespectful person who does a lot of assuming and judging from someone you don't know, do you know that?

Its like fucking ad hominem meteor shower.

A dungeon being impossible without a certain class just proves my point, thank you for support.

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Feca is so stupidly op that ankama buffed a dungeon because it was too easy doing it with a Feca now tell me that Feca isn't op...

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SpiritualEnigma|2016-02-24 09:47:43
Hearttyace|2016-02-24 05:41:14
hugoegon|2016-02-24 00:52:44
Delaz|2016-02-23 22:03:17
Kikuihimonji|2016-02-23 21:56:21
I must say considering the meta really NEED current Feca existance, you can't simply nerf it. Rather ask to buff other tanks/support to be equal to Feca, aka to make Feca replaceable.

Agree with these 100%, this game would get unnecessary harder if feca was nerf. Buff the tanks don't nerf the Feca.


I'd take the complete opposite stance: other tanks don't really need buffs, they work. I'm with OP on that Fecas are just way over the top with what they can do and thus trivialize game content...and are undeniably bad for the game meta. Many other classes got balance tweaks since spell deck patch, why not re-adress Fecas?

The problem with Fecas is (imo) not, that they can tank, others can do that too, but the amount of support they can dish out WHILE being the main tank. Ankama could literally cut all Feca buffs and debuffs down to 1/4th of what they are, and Fecas would still be worth their party slot. If that is not bad balancing, then I don't know what is.

Also, the game doesn't "need" Feca existence...the "meta" might, cause people try to apply the same strategy to everything, but the game doesn't. Take a team of actually strong characters/players and you can beat stuff without Fecas. A Meta of 1-2shotting endgame bosses sounds fundamentally wrong and screams "bad character/game design" to me.
+1

@Blaz, 1. Having a job slipt between 2 classes is a good thing. That'd be having a Tank and Support not a TAnk support + damage dealer or placeholder class X.
2. Considering the first part, no, you would not achieve the same results. Especially not in the same time frame, straight lies.
3. -resist isn't the only problem. 30% final damage on two targets + 20% damage dealt for everyone, ALONGside, map manpulation, the strongest spell in the game(perfect shield) and AP given(That could potentially double) is a problem. They could do all that in one turn. 50%+ extra damage on a DD > A sacrier spamming Rocky foot = Sadida with a 5 dolls = Panda in worn out/Barrel bashing. Didn't even mention the -resist.

Almost every tank if not all tanks have their ability to damage reduced by taking the tank route. But not Feca. Feca damage doesn't come from feca, If you added 20% damage to every damage dealer who attacked the bos, you'd probably already reach over Sadida full potential, now add another 30% final damage to one person (You could do two, but lets be fair). This can happen every turn. Along side a 1-6 2 person transport, AP given, and some other buffs like range.

Equipment is a factor too, and Tanks don't wear DD equipment. But Feca buffs that guy that is. I'm pretty sure I've explained this before though, along side some calculations. Feca being able to buff 100%+ final damage isn't fair.

Now the argument to buff tanks to FEca level is false. Gotta Buff every class to Feca level. All classes should be able to damage and remove -4 mp at the same time for 3 turns with a 1 turn realistic cool down or 4 ap, Should have an resist passive, a transport 2 ap 1-6 transport, 3 ap shield with 40 ap/armor ratio.

Sacrier should only rocky foot once and be half coagulation, His transport should cost 2 ap permanently, Double.. no,triple his damage. Give him -1 MP removal per motion sickness activation and we're set. Should be strong enough to compete with Feca.
lol someone plays favorites. Air sac is already very strong. Triple it's dmg? new metagame dmg dealer no contest. It can also position things stupidly well.

Problem with feca is that they can't go any other route other than tank/support. So most of their kit is designed around doing that and doing that well. Other tank classes, foggernaut, sacriers, panda, etc all have other options available to them.

Stop complaining that Feca is the streamlined tank and other tanks have different options available to them that feca can't compete with. The problem with other tanks is that their kit isnt designed solely and specifically for tanking and literally dishing out 0 dmg. Feca's dmg route relies on glyphs which dont matter against bosses in the slightest because of invulnerability mechanics.

Feca does deal more dmg because of leather plating and other buffs the feca can do like meteor and ap. This is all true, but relies on its teammates significantly more than the other "tank" classes. I've been saying since spell deck revamp no tank can match feca because leather plating is just so strong.

If we're talking about changing leather plating then we can have a real discussion here, but people just wanna buff and nerf classes willy nilly.
Air sacrier tanks like feca? Ok so it can't compete with Feca. Can Air Sacrier deal damage and tank?

Ok, the fallacy that Feca can't take other roles needs to stop. Lets not act like Feca doesn't have final damage and damage modifiers in their kit. Just because it is far stronger (Welcome to feca imbalance) to do support over damage doesn't mean it doesn't exist. like Eca going healer, the passives are there. But it's not strong. Better off going hybrid.

Leather plating is only part of the problem. Relying on teammates isn't a legitimate excuse in a team based game, or isn't a legitimate excuse to be as efficient as they are period. As Fecablades value is extremely high.

If Leather plating was the only thing they did while tanking it would be fine. I mean Sacrier gets ton of final damage as they tank, Sadidas ramps up. You remove leather plating and you're still removing -4 MP, Transporting, 120 armor or -100 resist and 30% final damage to damage dealer every turn. Tell me what class does something lie this every turn?

Least to say, Fecas support mechanics are better than their only other competitive counter part Osa. The AP and Final damage is +1 ap for them for example, Armor is also weaker. So no, it's not a simple "lets talk about leather plating" No class has the value in their spells that Feca does. Lets talk about how balanced Fecablades is first. Then we can move on to the 1 ap pull -100 resist that is magma armor.
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Feca doesn't even really rely on allies, have you seen the glyph damage they can do? No you haven't if you claim that Fecas can't do damage.

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"Ok, the fallacy that Feca can't take other roles needs to stop. Lets not act like Feca doesn't have final damage and damage modifiers in their kit. Just because it is far stronger (Welcome to feca imbalance) to do support over damage doesn't mean it doesn't exist. like Eca going healer, the passives are there. But it's not strong. Better off going hybrid.

Leather plating is only part of the problem. Relying on teammates isn't a legitimate excuse in a team based game, or isn't a legitimate excuse to be as efficient as they are period. As Fecablades value is extremely high.

If Leather plating was the only thing they did while tanking it would be fine. I mean Sacrier gets ton of final damage as they tank, Sadidas ramps up. You remove leather plating and you're still removing -4 MP, Transporting, 120 armor or -100 resist and 30% final damage to damage dealer every turn. Tell me what class does something lie this every turn?

Least to say, Fecas support mechanics are better than their only other competitive counter part Osa. The AP and Final damage is +1 ap for them for example, Armor is also weaker. So no, it's not a simple "lets talk about leather plating" No class has the value in their spells that Feca does. Lets talk about how balanced Fecablades is first. Then we can move on to the 1 ap pull -100 resist that is magma armor. "

(wasn't able to quote normally for some reason)

You're right, it's a lot better to buff than it is to do damage. Imagine that, a support class that's better at its job than it is at something it's not meant to do.

No good fecas rely on team mates. Team mates rely on a good feca.

Osa buff gives +2 AP for 3 turns so a total of 6 AP of 3 turns for 6 AP on one turn. Admittedly worse than feca's 8 AP over two turns for 4 AP once, but comparable least. I't also important to note, that most people end up abandoning the + AP glyph and it turns into a + 4 AP for 4 AP thusly, just giving AP, but with a chance to have the person moved off the AP glyph. Osas don't have that problem. They spend 6 AP and that player is guaranteed 6 AP over the next few turns.

Finally, if you know fecas who are at level 200 and are using feca master they should stop xD Until feca master glitch is fixed Rock is a better passive for feca. if you're a feca under level 200, I promise there are better passives to take. I start out saying level 200 because it's only at that extreme that magma becomes -100. Another point to make is that we don't have end game content yet. fancy that, we don't actually have level 200 content out yet, so cool your jets. Level 200 fecas are not an acceptable comparison to level 180-190 content, 10 levels is a large enough gap to make your point moot. maybe when we have level 200 dungeons then you can try to sell a max level feca being OP in PvE

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