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Feca needs a re-rework.

By Naqel January 12, 2015, 00:04:04
[EDIT] If you are going to complain about others needing it first, don't post at all.

Because it's almost lethally boring. A Fecal literally kills their enemies by taking stalling for so long they just give up.

By locking all the interesting decisions a Feca player can make behind armors(which usually lack an immediate effect), and glyphs(which usually aren't worth the effort and cost to fully utilize), not only is the Feca less frequently allowed to make said decisions(control limit, armor/glyph duration), but they also are locked out of the interesting gameplay other classes enjoy in both using and picking their abilities.

Unlike the Sacrier, whose durability serves to fuel the damage potential, or any of the healing classes who extend combat in much more visceral ways, Feca achieves its goals by making everything boring.

To that end, I suggest that when the time comes(probably after everyone else gets their first revamp), Feca be adjusted with the following principles in mind:

  • Allowing the basic abilities to have effects beyond single target damage.
  • Removing some of their passive durability in favor of armors tailored to the types of attacks that needs to be resisted.
  • Reintroducing Plate loss on triggers other than start of turn(i.e.: taking a hit).
  • Allowing Glyphs to have triggers other than start of turn (i.e.: walking over).

To give an example, below are changes I came up with for an active, a passive, and the Earth branch(depending on the feedback, I might post the rest of my ideas):

  • Reinforce: Replaces Provocation, costs from 2AP 2MP 1WP(rank 0) to 2AP(rank 9), range matches Glyph or Armor of same rank; adds an armor plate to targets armor, limited to one extension per armor.[New earth branch, replaces the blunt and 'gamey' way Provocation forces the enemies to fight the Feca, instead allows the Feca to extend critically vital armors.]
  • Ironclad: Half the benefit(+20%) always, other half(total +40%) only while the Feca 'wears' an armor, and refund casting Neutral Armor on self at level 20(instead of water range).[Increases the interaction with the benefits, increasing incentives for Feca to stay armored.]

  • Defensive orb: Cost to: 4AP, adjust ratio of Damage to Feca Shield generated to be higher than any other skill;triggers an armor that offers a significant reduction of damage for a specific number of hits(over *2AP* worth of reduction for 2 plates/hits).[/i] [Replaces Fecablades as the 1st ability, to provide a better introduction to the "tank" role. Armor forces enemies to play around it(PvP relevant), while rewarding use against big hits(PvE relevant).]
  • Feca Staff: Cost to: 2AP 1MP, 1-3 linear range, 2 per turn; pushes the target by 1 cell; triggers a glyph that prevents enemies from entering a cell(push applies when triggering the stood-on glyph; 1 cell, 1 turn). [i][Perhaps controversially, I believe bonus AP has not place on the Feca class, and certainly not in the high maintenance form old Staff dose. Instead, a tool for immediate displacement of threat, and preventing them from resuming the same pattern of attack.]
  • Fecabo: Cost to: 3AP, 2-6 linear range, low damage, requires target; triggers an armor that pulls wearer towards the Feca when hit(1 tile pull for 2 plates/hits), or the Feca towards the target of their attacks(self only version, 1 pull of 2 cells consuming 2 plates). [Keeping up with similar skills of other classes, packs plenty of positional utility into an otherwise boring skill.]
  • Fecammer: Cost to: 3AP 2MP, 2 per turn; applies +1 level of a debuff that increases the cost of movement to 2MP for 1 move per level; triggers an armor that stabilizes the 'wearer' while they are adjacent to the Feca or stabilizes the Feca if self-cast(1 plate at 1 turn per plate).[Replaces Provocation as the key tool for making the enemy deal with the Feca, while also allowing the feca to protect himself or his allies from displacement.]
  • Fecablades: Cost to: 5AP; Instead of generating Feca Shield, converts a portion of the shield generated this turn into additional damage; triggers a glyph that deals damage based on MP lost/spent(size 2 area for 2 turns).[Allows the Feca to convert AP involuntarily spent on defense into offense, glyph capitalizes on the new battlefield control tools.]
 
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I look at this post and i don't even have to read it that much to come up with a answer: "Get in Line", literally every single class needs a revamp regardless of its current standpoint (excluding Eliotrope, Sram, Pandawa and the coming Iop and Cra revamps, those 5 have gotten their kits re polished or new kits 'beta released'), they all need to be reinvented for the core of their styles.

Sacrier: Crazy-zerking with Blood, Stone and Tattoos.
Osamoda: The beast master.
Eniripisa: The master/mistress of medicines and wordplay(look up Goddess Eniripisa lore for the 'word' stuff, its shown in its 'spell names' and 'marks').
Foggernaut: Mecha-naut of Burning, Smacking and Stasis'ing enemies to death.
Sadida: The wood-lander, doll summoner and lord of dancing (seriously, Sadida god is a 'awesome' dancer and all things cool).
Enutrof: Call them up when you wanna see drops, but it'll all be in their treasure pool instead.

Rogue: Your alternative approach for more direct and aggressive Sram style using Tricks and Guns, Plus EXPLOOOOSIONS!!! xD

Masqueraider: They use masks to go split personality for different approaches to fighting, not much else to say.

Feca: The Tanker'nauts/Policemen who pretty much keep a enemy to stay still and can't even manage to kill you as you massacre them slowly and with much pain.

Ecaflip(The main of my main account): Even without a revamp they can rock, but they'll need it anyway to keep pace with the rest of the lot anyway. Gambling burst fire that can be the literal 'opposite' to Feca. Instead of controlled, slow torturing enemies to death, they just pull high reward chance play to destroy them all.~

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

I like the idea that you want to 'hope' they revamp Feca to something more 'fun', but you need to remember that Feca is a DEFENSIVE/SUPPORT class, that means its best when its taking blows, working in a party and giving them better edge with strengthening allies and debuffing enemies.

If they want to make Feca more 'aggressive' they could give it a system to allow 'absorbing' blows from enemies and not only 'reflect' damage, but can also used the 'stored up energy' to unleash a powerful attack. It would fit perfectly still with Feca's entire basis as a 'Shield based class'.

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Seraeph|2015-01-12 01:02:49
I don't even have to read it that much to come up with a answer.

Not reading much is probably the extent of what you did.

I specifically note that I realize other classes should come first, and this is thoughts for future.

I also do not deny that Feca are a support class, nor do I suggest they become more aggressive.
What I do however, is suggest that they be allowed a more interesting way of achieving their goals.

One that allows the Feca to flex their brain, and one that offers a more enjoyable and interactive experience(particularly in PvP).
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well anyone thinking a feca is a support class never saw a high level fire feca stacking fire glyphs on top of foes and just blowing everything the crap up. Sure they are amazing defensive class, but if they were strictly defense they wouldn't be that awesome to play. They do have offensive punch for those wanting it. An offensive Feca is still a nice powerhouse even defensively, still having higher resists, block, etc etc etc with the ability to mass fire glyph foes.

Feca is one of the top class's in the game, and any top class doesn't need a revamp/tweak unless theres a huge advantage. Feca already had their super shields nerfed to help gameplay, just like osa summons (warchiefs), and a few other things. Feca's were god before, now they are maybe demi-gods hehe. Still one of the top class's. Sure, they aren't as flashy as the new Pandas, Srams, etc but they still get the job done very well.

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eolsunder|2015-01-12 03:34:36
Feca is one of the top class's in the game, and any top class doesn't need a revamp/tweak unless theres a huge advantage.

You could not be more wrong when it comes to needing a rework, it might not be a "drop everything else" priority, but it has to happen.

Yes Feca is super strong. Sadly, all of this strength manifests in extremely boring ways, which in many cases neither allow the Feca to display any form of mastery of their skills, nor enable the enemy to do anything to counteract them in a meaningful way.

It's not exactly rocket science to cast c-wave armor every two turns, and mash the hammer with the spare AP.
It gets slightly more involved with group PvP or less common builds, but it all generally suffers from a horible lack of interactivity, especially in the more common 1v1 PvP.

Current iteration of Feca is little more than a stat-ball, and the worst kind there is, a meat-ball.
Fighting a Feca is frustrating. Being a Feca is insultingly simple for a class of supposed intellectuals.
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Score : 1866
Naqel|2015-01-12 03:52:51
eolsunder|2015-01-12 03:34:36
Feca is one of the top class's in the game, and any top class doesn't need a revamp/tweak unless theres a huge advantage.

You could not be more wrong when it comes to needing a rework, it might not be a "drop everything else" priority, but it has to happen.

Yes Feca is super strong. Sadly, all of this strength manifests in extremely boring ways, which in many cases neither allow the Feca to display any form of mastery of their skills, nor enable the enemy to do anything to counteract them in a meaningful way.

It's not exactly rocket science to cast c-wave armor every two turns, and mash the hammer with the spare AP.
It gets slightly more involved with group PvP or less common builds, but it all generally suffers from a horible lack of interactivity, especially in the more common 1v1 PvP.

Current iteration of Feca is little more than a stat-ball, and the worst kind there is, a meat-ball.
Fighting a Feca is frustrating. Being a Feca is insultingly simple for a class of supposed intellectuals.
Umm, Feca has some of the most interesting mechanics in the game. They have the ability to change fights with their glyphs. They're tanky as hell, can do decent damage and have a stable niche. I'd say they don't need a change currently.

I mean no class (not even sram) has a skill set as dynamic as Fecas currently.
Ask yourself, Do they have a niche? Yes, shields/glyphs.
Does their niche work well? Yes, Can be a game changer.
Are they useful in the current meta? Yes, They have a platoon of useful mechanics.
Are they static and stale? No, They are Dynamic and Round. They can adapt to most if not all situations.
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No. No it doesn't. Feca just got its revamp recently (relative to how quickly any class gets attention) and its useful in every stage of development and every dungeon in the game. You might be bored, but that's no reason to change a class that's quite effective no matter how short your attention span might be.

Fecas pay the price of being limited by Armors and Glyphs because their spells always have 2-3 applications in any version of their development. They have the greatest variety of tools in the game because of that. A good player has to learn how to use them efficiently and under the right circumstances, that puts Feca's among the more challenging and interesting classes.

Maybe your just better suited to Iop?

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Imhotek|2015-01-12 04:24:25
A good player has to learn how to use them efficiently and under the right circumstances, that puts Feca's among the more challenging and interesting classes.

I wish that was true, but it simply isn't.

Save for Teleportation Flux, few of the Feca skills have an immediate or interesting effect, and none of them have both.

From class specialties you have 1 mandatory skill(armor/glyph) that gates your ability to do anything at all, 1 skill(flux) that has interesting application and a strong effect, and 3 skills that do what they do in a very bland way, with inversion being perhaps forgivable on the basis of allowing you to trade some of the stat that is the most boring, into one that lets the fight end quicker.
All of the passives expand your lifespan by outright pumping stats, even though the class gameplay has space for making that a lot more interactive(but it dosen't).

In Fire it's a debate on carpet vs. pheles, Natural Attack is almost mandatory, and if you play support, you are stuck with the worst spells the branch offers in return for armors... one of which is hard to appreciate, and the other is a pain to utilize.

In Water you'll typically double down on shields, since drip needs no leveling and avalanche is worthless. Bubble becomes optional if you belong to the carpet camp, but you'll typically ignore the range boost since as a support Feca, you're already taken for meteor/volcano, and as a tank you're taken for c-wave.

In Earth branch, which almost has some actual gameplay, you have both the most powerful and most boring to keep going 6 AP boost, which while it can produce fun results, produces them at the expense of the Feca being allowed to do much else with their stuff, save for dipping into fire with Feca master(at which point why would you even bother boosting someone else's AP). Fecabo is skippable due to the armor not scaling. Fecablades probably shouldn't even exist. Hammer is a big hit, but you are more likely to pick up Defensive Orb to abuse incorrect behaviors or do group PvP at 3v3 and up, in which case it's a whole new game anyway, and still a far too niche application for the armor.

In all elemental branches, you get 5 nearly exact skills, out of which there is typically 1 or 2 that have a slightly better range or damage ratio, so if that's your only concern, then that's what you take, and all of those happen to have passable armors/glyphs attached.

The choices are essentially made for you based on a single criteria, and you have no way to do anything more interesting with your choices.
From that point onward you'll spend your life doing armor maintenance(rather than actually placing anything strategically), or using some of the least satisfying to use skills in the game(c-vave looks kinda cool, that's about it)
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Score : 1866

Every Fire spell is good.

Every water spell (except avalanche) is good

Every spell in Earth is good

You have to decide between them, Yes some builds work better than others in this meta (Go figure) But you have a choice. It's not as clear as day as say, IOP where half of the fire branch is useless and Earth has barely any useful skills.Or Masq having low synergy between branches. There's no clear cut builds, where it's just clearly better, if you want to have a defense centric build you can.

Weighing things on having immediate effects is just a poor excuse to complain.
If you want to be more defensive you take what you want. Want to be offensive you take what you want. You want to be Support, you take what you want.

You have a glyph to fit the situation. Shield Aoe or Shield one man. Debuff the enemy or provide more damage, Give more AP or pull/push. You can help an ally straight up get out of lock for 2 ap. No one can do that at range.

They have the ability to make clear cut choices. More than any class. What are you trying to say. Because they only way to say they're under whelming is to compare them to another class. Tell me one class that can adapt to a situation like Feca. A class that adds more to a fight than Feca

It's like saying Sram is boring because they just avoid getting hit to win.

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Score : 11
Heartyace|2015-01-12 08:07:22
They have the ability to make clear cut choices. More than any class. What are you trying to say.

What I'm trying to say is that the way Feca dose all those things is fundamentally boring, or offers little interaction.

It's not really about there being a clear best build for any choice of elements(save for the carpet/pheles debate), and no, just because the associated armor is decent, dose not mean volcano or meteor aren't bad spells.
It's not about what Feca dose, if it was, I'd be screaming "nerf!", cause Feca is so ridiculously stacked with numbers it's not even funny.

The problem is that Feca is mechanically far from perfection, to the point where it's frustratingly boring to watch, play as, or play against.
Because what should come from clever use of armors and glyphs, comes from stat-balling tons of resistances and shields.
Things like Provocation should not exist in a game with the potential, to offer the player so the tools they need, that Wakfu has.

I'm not calling for things to be done straight away, but just because Feca had a rework a tear ago, dose not mean that said rework didn't age, or that it can't have another one.
Panda and Sram(upcoming Cra looks like it too) show how a rework can be done right, and Feca's wasn't, even if the class is functional by the merits of it's numerical superiority.
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Imhotek|2015-01-12 04:24:25
A good player has to learn how to use them efficiently and under the right circumstances, that puts Feca's among the more challenging and interesting classes.

By challenging do you mean difficult to use? I doubt it because i made a feca in test server and used the xp scrolls to get him to lvl 108 put my sacrier equips on it and found it very easy and straight forward to use.
Yes they are op check out the feca i made in the test server biggrin, yes the 160 had almost no equips but he at-least had amulet boots and a ap weapon since he had 5mp 9 ap, it was a eliotrope and my lock was better than his doge.
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You essentially said that feca isnt exciting and....in other words your saying its boring to you. Not every class every player is going to like. Some classes are more straightforward than others, some more complicated, others are more about buffs or mobility rather than damage etc etc But whats boring is completely subjective to each individuals perspective.

That being said Feca is the buff / lock / Armor / Glyph and Tank class....to put it simply. Glyphs focus on hitting or affecting multiple targets, even if they change various things Armors are exceedingly likely to still only attack single target, attacks most likely as well. Keep in mind that Feca has a larger range by far in what they can do than most classes and keeping Glyphs to multiple targets and Armors to single is one of the few resrictions they do have and thats not likely to change. Even if your Feca isnt a tank perse its a Tank oriented class, and tanks are typically functional in what they do but not flashy, im not sure what you are expecting but if you havent liked that playstyle elswhere then im not sure why youd expect to like it here

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lyricalglitchen|2015-01-12 10:49:47
Even if your Feca isnt a tank perse its a Tank oriented class, and tanks are typically functional in what they do but not flashy, im not sure what you are expecting

Just because tanky characters are typically boring, dose not mean they have to, or should be.
If you play League of Legends, there are tanks and supports there that are super exciting to play, apples and oranges, but it proves the point.

Hell, Even in Wakfu you got Pandawa, who are forced to do interesting stuff if they want to be tanks, because they don't get Feca stat-ball, and Sacriers, which while they really need a rework(because god damn they have few options), even now offer a very interesting type of gameplay.
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Score : 1866
Naqel|2015-01-12 22:18:59
lyricalglitchen|2015-01-12 10:49:47
Even if your Feca isnt a tank perse its a Tank oriented class, and tanks are typically functional in what they do but not flashy, im not sure what you are expecting

Just because tanky characters are typically boring, dose not mean they have to, or should be.
If you play League of Legends, there are tanks and supports there that are super exciting to play, apples and oranges, but it proves the point.

Hell, Even in Wakfu you got Pandawa, who are forced to do interesting stuff if they want to be tanks, because they don't get Feca stat-ball, and Sacriers, which while they really need a rework(because god damn they have few options), even now offer a very interesting type of gameplay.
What. What is interesting about pulling a target. Because that's all they have over a Feca. Feca has the same elements they do. But have the ability to do 10 other things the Sacrier can't do. Like give AP, Range damage or give shields.

I feel like you don't even know what your talking about, Sacriers are a lot more boring than any other class. Currently.
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Yeah On bore scale sacrier tops it for the classes right now IMO, and to answer your point on Panda, they are off-tanks not main tanks like feca and sacrier. Honestly I would love to have some of the kit that feca have on my poor little boring sacrier.

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Score : 3593

No idea what he finds exciting or boring....as its pertains to each individual, if you dont like the playstyle....then dont play it. Thats not enough of a reason to change the class and thats all im really getting from what hes saying. As for my statement of functional vs flashy, that doesnt mean that im saying its supposed to be boring. All that means is a tank is designed to take a lot of damage and jump into the fray usually to protect others. If they had ranged attacks or any of the things OP seems to want, it doesnt really fit and Fecas are tough as they are adding stuff like that would make them majorly overpowered. And yes Pandas are off-tanks, which most of the tank option in Wakfu are off-tanks. To me the most boring is Cra and Iop, but two classes i find boring i do actually play but its due to them being too useful not to, which is my Eni and Enu, but what one finds dull or boring another does not, i wouldnt go to thier class sections and want changes just becasue i find it to be that way, when you make suggestions its to improve upon the basic structure of a class, and in this case Op wants to scrap that which would make a Feca....not really a Feca

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All I want to see is the ability for Feca to lay glyphs down that have a cross-shaped radius for AP glyphs and return the MP glyphs as well.

And then.. maybe the following;

A glyph that grants stabilization to the target standing within it.

An armor that increases healing received.

Stabilization Aura that makes the Feca stabilized if he ends up inflicting 'bound' on a target.

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Score : 432
Leyrio|2015-01-13 21:12:26
All I want to see is the ability for Feca to lay glyphs down that have a cross-shaped radius for AP glyphs and return the MP glyphs as well.

And then.. maybe the following;

A glyph that grants stabilization to the target standing within it.

An armor that increases healing received.

Stabilization Aura that makes the Feca stabilized if he ends up inflicting 'bound' on a target.
So you want them to have even more power? lol are you trolling? The only way to have those glyphs is to reduce armor by half.

These are the stats my feca has in test server they are crazy res and block because of passives and he does not even have a guild bonus because he isn't in one and also you cannot add any runes to equipment on test server for some reason otherwise with those bonuses they would be even crazier.

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Fecas have a problem, but boring isn't it. They're very dynamic and versatile; that's its strength. I'm often doing many different things in a single turn and almost always have to queue spells while my turn is ending just to fit everything in because of the horrid long animations and number of things we can do. If you're playing feca as sit there and shield yourself with armors and glyphs while just locking an enemy then you're missing out on the great things about playing a feca. The delayed effect on the armors and glyphs make everything become team oriented and very strategic. Oh how i would like it if the effects were instant, but it isnt so. Now, Fecas are quite boring for 1 v 1. I will grant you that, but as it becomes a team game your options soon become flooded.

Feca's problem is lack of variety inbetween builds. Every endgame build will look almost identical. only 2-3 spells per branch are even worth leveling: Crashing wave, steam, bubble, Natural attack, Fecastopheles, Flaming Carpet, Fecammer, and Fecastaff. Every other spell isn't worth leveling. I haven't met a good endgame Feca that has deviated from that spell lineup. Now i have met a couple BAD fecas that have deviated from that spell lineup and it obviously didn't help them at all. Sure a couple armors don't need leveling to be effective: drip and fecabo. I'm trying hard to find a use for Orb armor into a build I'm going to try switching to in the near future, but it's still very underwhelming.

As for suggestions for new spells to replace the utterly useless ones Fecas have... that will be a much longer post i'm not willing to write at this moment since I know the devs are most likely going to revamp us last in this lineup anyway (if we consider sram being the start of the new lineup, which seems very likely).

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Posting on behalf of Mechazerker who wasnt able to post his reply
although you can read it here 

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