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Srams need to be nerfed.

By skilled-noob February 18, 2012, 08:28:26

Alright guys, I'm going to get straight to the point. This is my opinion, so if you rage and make comments like "You're so bad they dont need to be nerfed derpderpderp" then just don't even bother because I will just ignore the comment.

Personally, at the moment Srams are ridiculously powerful when they are either air or fire. Air you can just stack up forceful blow and dish out crazy damage with 2 of them and forb. With fire, you can basically just use execution and hit CRAZY high. It's pretty imbalanced.

On top of the damage from the spells, master stabber procs WAAAYY too much damage multiplier. It needs to be lowered.

Doubles, people can just go straight vit and put like 2 points into double and do crazy damage and never get hit in the process.

The only thing I feel is balanced on Srams is the invisibility.

I have played all of the classes, including ecaflip, to try to counter a sram. I just can't do it.

Do you guys believe in nerfing Srams? If not, they surely have to be the most powerful if not the second most powerful glass in the game at all levels.

Thanks~

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Lol... there is so much good stuff about other classes too but I'm tired and I'm not going to say anything for now.. I'll let someone else do the post.

Air/Fire Sram "damage" is just to high for you to win with anything?.... lol

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Ragutou9|2012-02-18 10:32:59
Lol... there is so much good stuff about other classes too but I'm tired and I'm not going to say anything for now.. I'll let someone else do the post.

Air/Fire Sram "damage" is just to high for you to win with anything?.... lol
"sigh" I guess I will take this one.<_<

@noob: Yes they can dish out alot of damage. However, all there attacks hit single targets. Other classes might do less but can deal decent damage to multiple targets at once. Execution is really ony good if you have a decent Hemorahge lv. or if used on the back of a target after using FB to increase BS.

As for MS the damage thry get from that is high, but there are other classes with similar abilities. Iops have Autority and the power buff no longer resets if you gain it after reaching lv.100. Eca's have the Precision passive that can cause an attack to deal up to 500% more damage. This buff may max out at 40% chance to proc and you would think the 500% buff would rarely happen but it seems to happen 1/4 of the time.(although thats just from my tests)

Doubles can be destoyed in one hit. If your worried about being locked, most classes have a teleport/movement skill they can use to get away from the double. Putting all points into hp and trying to double bomb is a strategy that has it's ups & downs. Relying on the Double means not using Guile as much if at all, plus your spells may wind up under leveled. A lv.100 Sram that put all points into hp, without any other icrease to hp will have 1040hp. Double maxed will only deal 208 damage from blowing up.

Any class can be extremely powerful if used right & with the right build.

Also if you have a hard time fighting against srams ask others how they defeat them. My fire Sram is one of the better ones on Nox, at both pve & pvp. But that doesn't mean I win against every other class I fight. Xelors that rely on Dial, Zoidberg Cra's, Water Eca's, Sadidas that summon a sh*t ton of greedies & Osa's that summon alot are the only classes I lose to. Other range classes/builds can be annoying.

I do think they should nerf the pop damage on double to maybe 10%, but that is the only thing they should nerf. However, they really need to buff water damage & maybe LAY to a higher chance to proc, 60-70% would make it much more useful. That would balance out the three trees a bit more.

I'm sure there are things I didn't cover, but I hate having to explain this stuff. So I leave the rest up to Ragutou9 & b-baller.
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At this point, I don't think the Srams should be nerfed further. They may dish out heavy damage, but that's only for 3-5 turns until their WP runs out. Once that happens, they're pretty much sitting ducks for almost every other class.

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skilled-noob|2012-02-18 08:28:26
Alright guys, I'm going to get straight to the point. This is my opinion, so if you rage and make comments like "You're so bad they dont need to be nerfed derpderpderp" then just don't even bother because I will just ignore the comment.

Personally, at the moment Srams are ridiculously powerful when they are either air or fire. Air you can just stack up forceful blow and dish out crazy damage with 2 of them and forb. With fire, you can basically just use execution and hit CRAZY high. It's pretty imbalanced.

On top of the damage from the spells, master stabber procs WAAAYY too much damage multiplier. It needs to be lowered.

Doubles, people can just go straight vit and put like 2 points into double and do crazy damage and never get hit in the process.

The only thing I feel is balanced on Srams is the invisibility.

I have played all of the classes, including ecaflip, to try to counter a sram. I just can't do it.

Do you guys believe in nerfing Srams? If not, they surely have to be the most powerful if not the second most powerful glass in the game at all levels.

Thanks~
We just GOT nerfed. I completely supported the previous one, but any further nerfing would suck.
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Jinouga|2012-02-18 12:36:14
Ragutou9|2012-02-18 10:32:59
Lol... there is so much good stuff about other classes too but I'm tired and I'm not going to say anything for now.. I'll let someone else do the post.

Air/Fire Sram "damage" is just to high for you to win with anything?.... lol
"sigh" I guess I will take this one.<_<

@noob: Yes they can dish out alot of damage. However, all there attacks hit single targets. Other classes might do less but can deal decent damage to multiple targets at once. Execution is really ony good if you have a decent Hemorahge lv. or if used on the back of a target after using FB to increase BS.

As for MS the damage thry get from that is high, but there are other classes with similar abilities. Iops have Autority and the power buff no longer resets if you gain it after reaching lv.100. Eca's have the Precision passive that can cause an attack to deal up to 500% more damage. This buff may max out at 40% chance to proc and you would think the 500% buff would rarely happen but it seems to happen 1/4 of the time.(although thats just from my tests)

Doubles can be destoyed in one hit. If your worried about being locked, most classes have a teleport/movement skill they can use to get away from the double. Putting all points into hp and trying to double bomb is a strategy that has it's ups & downs. Relying on the Double means not using Guile as much if at all, plus your spells may wind up under leveled. A lv.100 Sram that put all points into hp, without any other icrease to hp will have 1040hp. Double maxed will only deal 208 damage from blowing up.

Any class can be extremely powerful if used right & with the right build.

Also if you have a hard time fighting against srams ask others how they defeat them. My fire Sram is one of the better ones on Nox, at both pve & pvp. But that doesn't mean I win against every other class I fight. Xelors that rely on Dial, Zoidberg Cra's, Water Eca's, Sadidas that summon a sh*t ton of greedies & Osa's that summon alot are the only classes I lose to. Other range classes/builds can be annoying.

I do think they should nerf the pop damage on double to maybe 10%, but that is the only thing they should nerf. However, they really need to buff water damage & maybe LAY to a higher chance to proc, 60-70% would make it much more useful. That would balance out the three trees a bit more.

I'm sure there are things I didn't cover, but I hate having to explain this stuff. So I leave the rest up to Ragutou9 & b-baller.
I do agree that any class is powerful in the correct hands, however i think the fault doesn't solely lie int heir dmg, currently srams can out dps any standing class and therefore shine in the communities eyes. The dopple skill shouldn't be able to do 100% dmg but rather a 75% at max lv. Also another key factor that really makes them Superpowers. Is their mobility.

Iops back in closed beta were notorious for being mobile... but nothing like this. A hard nuker that cane easily take down 3/4s of the enemy's hp in 1 turn from 16 squares away is hardly ever balanced.

Im not saying they need a nerf. In not saying they need a buff. But they need something along with many other classes. The games sitll in open beta and nothings set in stone, these ideas are my own personal Ideas. However before they nerf or edit srams i want my ***ing air osa fixed DAMMIT.
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16 square's away and still do 3/4 of your hp? what lvl sram are u talking about here. and what lvl is he fighting, is he fighting a char that have -hp equip on? there is no way a sram 16 square's away can do 3/4 of you hp.

let see. u need lvl 9 scram. lvl 20 backstab, lvl 9 clone. that is a lvl 60. and this sram have no reflex. even then its a lvl 60+? u are telling me that just the clone can do 400-700dmg? at lvl 60 that is about how much 3/4 of ur hp is at lvl 60 depend on ur class and gear. and you need to have the other char not be able to move from ur clone and just kill it after they move...

this also require the other char not to be against a wall. and require use of 2 wakfu. and there is no way the clone alone can do that much dmg. if u really dont play the class. dont just think all it can do this or that.

if any class need a bit of nerf its feca earth. other class are balance or underpower.

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Xgralie|2012-02-19 19:44:05
16 square's away and still do 3/4 of your hp? what lvl sram are u talking about here. and what lvl is he fighting, is he fighting a char that have -hp equip on? there is no way a sram 16 square's away can do 3/4 of you hp.

let see. u need lvl 9 scram. lvl 20 backstab, lvl 9 clone. that is a lvl 60. and this sram have no reflex. even then its a lvl 60+? u are telling me that just the clone can do 400-700dmg? at lvl 60 that is about how much 3/4 of ur hp is at lvl 60 depend on ur class and gear. and you need to have the other char not be able to move from ur clone and just kill it after they move...

this also require the other char not to be against a wall. and require use of 2 wakfu. and there is no way the clone alone can do that much dmg. if u really dont play the class. dont just think all it can do this or that.

if any class need a bit of nerf its feca earth. other class are balance or underpower.

This.

Srams are fine, besides the double mechanic. And the reason I don't like the double mechanic is mostly because it seems like a silly way to play an assassin type class (using the double as a missile).

Backstab is fine. Iops get +140% damage bonus with basically no requirements with authority and compulsion.

Sram damage is actually pretty bad compared to earth fecas and iops. Check out my theory-crafting post on the general boards. They get most of their damage from double.

In terms of PvP, I don't have as much experience, but it seems like they would be good and not over-powered when compared with the better classes in the game. I suppose it would be annoying to have a sram double-launch while running away, but hopefully Ankama will implement changes to fix that. Some classes will just be better at PvP, when compared with group PvP, when compared with PvE. Deal with it.
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crudd|2012-02-19 22:12:18
Xgralie|2012-02-19 19:44:05
16 square's away and still do 3/4 of your hp? what lvl sram are u talking about here. and what lvl is he fighting, is he fighting a char that have -hp equip on? there is no way a sram 16 square's away can do 3/4 of you hp.

let see. u need lvl 9 scram. lvl 20 backstab, lvl 9 clone. that is a lvl 60. and this sram have no reflex. even then its a lvl 60+? u are telling me that just the clone can do 400-700dmg? at lvl 60 that is about how much 3/4 of ur hp is at lvl 60 depend on ur class and gear. and you need to have the other char not be able to move from ur clone and just kill it after they move...

this also require the other char not to be against a wall. and require use of 2 wakfu. and there is no way the clone alone can do that much dmg. if u really dont play the class. dont just think all it can do this or that.

if any class need a bit of nerf its feca earth. other class are balance or underpower.

This.

Srams are fine, besides the double mechanic. And the reason I don't like the double mechanic is mostly because it seems like a silly way to play an assassin type class (using the double as a missile).

Backstab is fine. Iops get +140% damage bonus with basically no requirements with authority and compulsion.

Sram damage is actually pretty bad compared to earth fecas and iops. Check out my theory-crafting post on the general boards. They get most of their damage from double.

In terms of PvP, I don't have as much experience, but it seems like they would be good and not over-powered when compared with the better classes in the game. I suppose it would be annoying to have a sram double-launch while running away, but hopefully Ankama will implement changes to fix that. Some classes will just be better at PvP, when compared with group PvP, when compared with PvE. Deal with it.
There's already a "fix" for Srams launching their doubles and running away. It's called 6 WP. Attack their clones with ranged attacks 6 times and they start sucking.
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SSBKewkky|2012-02-20 06:11:43
There's already a "fix" for Srams launching their doubles and running away. It's called 6 WP. Attack their clones with ranged attacks 6 times and they start sucking.
Thats not a fix.
The fact that my sram can still do upwards of 300 on the first turn is still a problem
double shouldn't be able to attack
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b-baller|2012-02-20 15:25:59
SSBKewkky|2012-02-20 06:11:43
There's already a "fix" for Srams launching their doubles and running away. It's called 6 WP. Attack their clones with ranged attacks 6 times and they start sucking.
Thats not a fix.
The fact that my sram can still do upwards of 300 on the first turn is still a problem
double shouldn't be able to attack
Srams are a class that work in a very strategic way; win the match before X amount of turns, or else you lose. They have no mobbing attacks besides the clone exploding, which also makes them a class that's better at 1v1 than mobs. If you're in a fight that takes longer than 6 turns (PvP, Clan member, trools, the special enemies that appear in certain challenges, etc...), you're going to die. That's their weakness: retreat while destroying his clones and you win. Use moves that push you back, put your back against some kind of wall at all times, and now Srams lose.

As a Cra, put yourself against a wall and summon a beacon in front of you so that the clone can't get to you, and the beacon will always kill it in one hit. As a Feca, put yourself against a wall and create glyphs around you, now the clone dies whenever he moves closer to you. As a Sadida, put yourself against a wall, then just summon greedies to your heart's content and done. Etc etc etc... So what if you took some damage getting to that wall? Once you reach it, you can't get Guile'd, the Sram can't get his stabber bonuses, and since Srams have no ranged attacks, you can hide yourself behind a summon/glyph and done.

I think the Srams are just fine. 6 clones at max, less if the main Sram decides to use Invisibe or Guile.
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SSBKewkky|2012-02-20 19:15:30
Srams are a class that work in a very strategic way; win the match before X amount of turns, or else you lose. They have no mobbing attacks besides the clone exploding, which also makes them a class that's better at 1v1 than mobs. If you're in a fight that takes longer than 6 turns (PvP, Clan member, trools, the special enemies that appear in certain challenges, etc...), you're going to die. That's their weakness: retreat while destroying his clones and you win. Use moves that push you back, put your back against some kind of wall at all times, and now Srams lose.
its very true that they are a quick burst sort of class, but the way the game is suits them too well.

Well pvm fights have never taken too long, so srams have always been suited for those, even after the nerf

larger pvp fights use to take longer but now they are a lot quicker...
due to the nerf of the hp stat now many people place points into damage meaning fights are quicker. Most classes won't have more than 6 or 7 hundred hp by lvl 60 meaning my sram build could take them out easily, that 300 isn't including damage from stabber state, hemorrhage, or damage from the doubles explosion...

And given the placement guile gives, its not too hard for a sram that goes first to keep an enemy from reaching a corner in less than 2 turns. Even if you get to that corner, I can still do 140-210 without doubles explosion.
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I think most of the top classes in the game have something along the lines of what you're describing for Srams, better or worse. Sadidas just spam greedies and you could argue that they're OP if they have too many in the field, Iops are still the #1 class in terms of damage output and once they lock you down you're probably not going anywhere, I hear things about Eniripsas and Fecas but I don't know much about those classes so I'll just leave it there... It just so happens that the classes we play are Srams, but I assure you that if you chose an Iop instead you'd probably be talking about how OP'd Iops are compared to almost everyone else in terms of damage output.

Srams aren't the best class right now either, they don't really break the game, they're simply a really good class with cons that are hard to see in PvE environments and 1v1 PvP. It's also not easy to conserve Wakfu and keep your Stabber bonus going, or keep your Hemorrhage going, if the opponent knows how to run away and force you to waste more WP so you can keep chasing him down. You can see this better in 2v2+ PvP scenarios, where Srams will undoubtfully use up all their WP in less than 6 turns (one opponent takes out the clone while the others concentrate on his party members or go straight to him).

After Launch happens I'll be going Sram, so I'll find out personally if they're too OP or not once I reach the higher levels and PvP against other classes.

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SSBKewkky|2012-02-20 22:19:33
I think most of the top classes in the game have something along the lines of what you're describing for Srams, better or worse. Sadidas just spam greedies and you could argue that they're OP if they have too many in the field, Iops are still the #1 class in terms of damage output and once they lock you down you're probably not going anywhere, I hear things about Eniripsas and Fecas but I don't know much about those classes so I'll just leave it there... It just so happens that the classes we play are Srams, but I assure you that if you chose an Iop instead you'd probably be talking about how OP'd Iops are compared to almost everyone else in terms of damage output.

Srams aren't the best class right now either, they don't really break the game, they're simply a really good class with cons that are hard to see in PvE environments and 1v1 PvP. It's also not easy to conserve Wakfu and keep your Stabber bonus going, or keep your Hemorrhage going, if the opponent knows how to run away and force you to waste more WP so you can keep chasing him down. You can see this better in 2v2+ PvP scenarios, where Srams will undoubtfully use up all their WP in less than 6 turns (one opponent takes out the clone while the others concentrate on his party members or go straight to him).

After Launch happens I'll be going Sram, so I'll find out personally if they're too OP or not once I reach the higher levels and PvP against other classes.
Agreed. Srams may fare better in certain situations, but this is true with any class. In terms of PvE, Iops and earth fecas do best with melee mobs, Enu's do better with ranged mobs that consistently stay within their range, and so forth.
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Everyone who is trying to compare how much dmg each class is doing needs to remember that with the introduction of spell scrolls and various duplication glitch methods, you cannot accurately determine how you stack up to the next player unless you dup glitch yourself and go against another with all 100 lvl spells which still doesn't really prove anything. The only thing we can do now is wait for the wipe being that the servers have been totaled by these infamous glitchers now that most people have maxed out spell levels and several have used xp scrolls to reach the 90's.

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Reapwhatyousow|2012-02-21 10:28:39
Everyone who is trying to compare how much dmg each class is doing needs to remember that with the introduction of spell scrolls and various duplication glitch methods, you cannot accurately determine how you stack up to the next player unless you dup glitch yourself and go against another with all 100 lvl spells which still doesn't really prove anything. The only thing we can do now is wait for the wipe being that the servers have been totaled by these infamous glitchers now that most people have maxed out spell levels and several have used xp scrolls to reach the 90's.
You don't need to take that into account, because those glitches and dupes won't be around for launch (Maybe a different dupe method, but at that point, people are risking their real-life money by getting banned for exploiting a bug). No matter how much people like to talk bad about Ankama, they're better than many other game companies in terms of player-developer relationships from what I've seen so far.
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Srams are not too OP, you just see too many mindless people clone bombing and think its OP when in reality its just a lame tactic. Clone in and run.

The only reason people say Srams are OP is because there are so many people playing the class.

Enis own Srams if the Sram cannot 1 turn.

Iops and Srams are very close in dmg, but for the most part if the Sram does not clone bomb, Iops will win.

Before everyone started spell/base lvling my lvl 74 Sram was dishing out 650 dmg a turn using no clone bomb. Iops can do this same damage if built right.

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boink|2012-02-22 01:21:47
Srams are not OP, you just see too many mindless people clone bombing and think its OP when in reality its just a lame tactic. Clone in and run.

The only reason people say Srams are OP is because there are so many people playing the class.

Enis own Srams if the Sram cannot 1 turn.

Iops and Srams are very close in dmg, but for the most part if the Sram does not clone bomb, Iops will win.

Before everyone started spell/base lvling my lvl 74 Sram was dishing out 650 dmg a turn using no clone bomb. Iops can do this same damage if built right.
So a lvl 74 sram does 650 dmg in one turn, and your claiming not op? Lets say you utilize your clone to the fullest extent...you sure you couldn't one turn lot of people?
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b-baller|2012-02-22 04:48:29
boink|2012-02-22 01:21:47
Srams are not OP, you just see too many mindless people clone bombing and think its OP when in reality its just a lame tactic. Clone in and run.

The only reason people say Srams are OP is because there are so many people playing the class.

Enis own Srams if the Sram cannot 1 turn.

Iops and Srams are very close in dmg, but for the most part if the Sram does not clone bomb, Iops will win.

Before everyone started spell/base lvling my lvl 74 Sram was dishing out 650 dmg a turn using no clone bomb. Iops can do this same damage if built right.
So a lvl 74 sram does 650 dmg in one turn, and your claiming not op? Lets say you utilize your clone to the fullest extent...you sure you couldn't one turn lot of people?


Iops are on par with my dmg and dont need backstab, plus they gain bonus dmg faster and easier. Enis is usually a stalemate, but for the most part they will win. Does it mean Iops and Eni's are OP?

Srams are bursty dps, iops are sustained dps.

They fulfill different roles.
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boink|2012-02-23 01:11:00
b-baller|2012-02-22 04:48:29
boink|2012-02-22 01:21:47
Srams are not OP, you just see too many mindless people clone bombing and think its OP when in reality its just a lame tactic. Clone in and run.

The only reason people say Srams are OP is because there are so many people playing the class.

Enis own Srams if the Sram cannot 1 turn.

Iops and Srams are very close in dmg, but for the most part if the Sram does not clone bomb, Iops will win.

Before everyone started spell/base lvling my lvl 74 Sram was dishing out 650 dmg a turn using no clone bomb. Iops can do this same damage if built right.
So a lvl 74 sram does 650 dmg in one turn, and your claiming not op? Lets say you utilize your clone to the fullest extent...you sure you couldn't one turn lot of people?


Iops are on par with my dmg and dont need backstab, plus they gain bonus dmg faster and easier. Enis is usually a stalemate, but for the most part they will win. Does it mean Iops and Eni's are OP?

Srams are bursty dps, iops are sustained dps.

They fulfill different roles.


In boink's case what he says is true, on all counts. I was a Iop 80's before the duping etc and while in 70's me and him dueled. It came down to who got first round and distance. We both did comparable damage and he did utilize his clone fully. You need to understand that in a 1v1, side from using certain borders to force a clone explosion while controlling the clone, the only one who is going to burst that clone is the opponent. Unless it gets back to the sram's turn and the opponent is still alive and near the clone.

I have no issues with HIS method of gameplay per say since he gets right in there. The only issue I have ever had with srams is the insane mobility and being able to send clones in as projectiles covering almost the entire map with almost no danger whatsoever to the sram. I am a you get something you have to give something kind of player.

Boink also I'd say beat me more than I beat him.

Also a shoutout to all the other srams who took joy in attacking me. Frozen, Gwen.. couple others. Bad voodoo on you all. Very bad voodoo.
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