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Quick Question to Old Beta Testers: Cra's Power

By Zethros January 25, 2011, 02:16:55

In Dofus Cra's used to be quite over powered in first half levels (i.e. 100 and less). I was just wondering:

Are the Wakfu Cra's properly nerfed (in the old version of course. I know noone knows how the new one works. I want to know how it WAS)? I've just been noticing on the new site. I was looking at their skills on the wiki aswell
On the site it says: A difficult target for a Cra would be "An enemy with long distance attacks who can hide." which sounds alot like another Cra.
His Martial arrow....did that do "ew, omfg wtf idonteven" damage? Expecially for a cra?
He still has plagueing arrow and absorbative arrow. I remember how dredful that was in Dofus. How was it?
(these above questions were just the specifices i wanted to know)

Overal last quesiton. Were they balanced?

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Iop and Cra are currently available in v0.3. I find them to be fairly balanced, Absorptive Arrow's name is misleading, it now functions like Retreat Arrow and costs 1WP. When I PvP Cras around the same level as my Earth/Fire Iop, I find them to be fairly close fights. Air Iops on the other hand, are in serious need of a nerfing.

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Relocating to Cra class forum from General Discussions.

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Thank you, Derek. smile

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I'd say that the Cra and Iop seem fairly well balanced, with perhaps a little advantage going towards the Iop.

One major difference that I point to when contrasting Wakfu and Dofus in terms of PvP is the size of the battlefields. In general, they're quite a bit smaller than those in Dofus, and they're also a bit more regular: typically a circle, though the terrain inside can be just about anything, including trees, elevation, fences, and so on, depending on where you start the fight.

Along with the reduced map size, all classes have had their ranges drop by about 1/2. Range 6 is considered pretty long, and range 3 or 4 is about the average for a ranged spell. There are a number of range 1 spells; most classes have at least a few, and even the Cra has one. ^__^

Combine these two adjustments, and the Cra is put in a fairly different place than in Dofus. They cannot rely on attacking at range for long periods of time while an opponent closes; instead, they are often forced to focus their efforts on out maneuvering their opponent, using push effects, Disengage (which teleports you back a step from an adjacent opponent), beacons (immobile summon-like "mechanisms" that block line of sight, among other things) to keep their distance. They also have a number of area of effect spells, which are useful for attempting to hit opponents around corners if they try to take shelter against your arrows.

This sort of dancing around is what helps keep the Cra balanced, in my opinion, and so far it seems the devs have done a good job of it. Certain Cra builds were a little too strong in the last version, but they have been toned down without being made irrelevant.

It's still too early to tell, though, as we won't have the big picture until all 12 (14?) classes are released. So far, so good, though.

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Alright good to hear. It sounds like Cras need alot more than just simple, "attack and run a few squares back" tactics to be good now. Before what i didnt like is, for example, retreat arrow. How they can push you so far away, from such a far distance, then move back to maintain an even greater distance, and repeat that untill you die. Thats how fights with cra's usually went down in Dofus....

Sounds like you have to be alot more strategic and thoughful in Wakfu to be a Cra now. I like that. Alot of the used-to-be OP and rather annoying moves now are nerfed aswell with the introduction of precious WakfuPoints. And with the added updates, im sure it'll be even more balanced out.

Thanks for the info guys.

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Zethros|2011-01-25 06:03:07
Before what i didnt like is, for example, retreat arrow. How they can push you so far away, from such a far distance, then move back to maintain an even greater distance, and repeat that untill you die. Thats how fights with cra's usually went down in Dofus....

 They still have that spell, but it's not as bad as in Dofus and it costs WP so they can't spam it now.
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an honest simple post.

iop vs cra = iop does more dmg, but cra can kite more.

if we had had a dummy target for both classes the iop would almost double the cra's dps.

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nightxowl|2011-01-25 07:27:24
an honest simple post.

iop vs cra = iop does more dmg, but cra can kite more.

if we had had a dummy target for both classes the iop would almost double the cra's dps.

 Actually, this is totally wrong. I compared an Earth Iop and Earth Cra of the same level, both focused on two spells evenly. The Cra did more damage overall, while the Iop was able to take more hits.
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Damage comparisons depend on the elements in question. Iops of the Air branch have without a doubt the highest damage potential against a single target between the two classes. Comparing spells at level 100, my Air Iop puts out 145 base damage a round (186 including two Uppercuts, but you can only throw 6 of these per fight). Wrath Iops can dish out 130 in an area, at a high cost, compared to 78 for an Earthquake, but in a larger area with a chance to stun.

An Earth Cra's most damaging single spell deals 76 base damage at level 100, albeit probably with a slightly higher bonus to damage. Three Homing Arrows are worth 72, and two Burning Arrows are worth 68. These are all just examples.

It's all pretty relative, but toe to toe, Iops tend to have the upper hand in pure one-on-one damage, depending on their build. Cras can definitely compete with certain builds, while others leave them in the dust.

Comparing damage really isn't that helpful, though. There really are too many compounding factors, such as equipment, use of terrain, support spells, movement points, dodge/tackle, AoE, line of sight, linearity of spells, etc. All I can really say is that when I get into a PvP match, I don't feel relieved that my opponent is a Cra, or an Iop. Either could be very dangerous.

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I've noticed alot of talk between Iop vs Cra, the argueably two strongest dps chars in the game. But what i'm mainly intrested in is Iops and Cras vs the rest of the classes aswell

How are their balances worked out fighting other classes? Like a Pandawa, Sram, Feca, Sadida, or Ecaflip etc, vs a Cra.

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Zethros|2011-01-25 21:21:26
I've noticed alot of talk between Iop vs Cra, the argueably two strongest dps chars in the game. But what i'm mainly intrested in is Iops and Cras vs the rest of the classes aswell

How are their balances worked out fighting other classes? Like a Pandawa, Sram, Feca, Sadida, or Ecaflip etc, vs a Cra.

 We don't know, Iop and Cra are the only classes available in v0.3 right now.
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LordNecroid|2011-01-25 23:28:30
Zethros|2011-01-25 21:21:26
I've noticed alot of talk between Iop vs Cra, the argueably two strongest dps chars in the game. But what i'm mainly intrested in is Iops and Cras vs the rest of the classes aswell

How are their balances worked out fighting other classes? Like a Pandawa, Sram, Feca, Sadida, or Ecaflip etc, vs a Cra.
 
 We don't know, Iop and Cra are the only classes available in v0.3 right now.

 OOHHHH now i understand. I was wondering why the Iop and Cra were the only classes with details on the wiki right now.

I thought the beta testing (ya know, for the French beta testing thats been going on around here for a few years), was put on hold until Jan 31st, in which the new super update + translations would be implemented.
I didnt know you guys were still at it. Ok then happy
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Zethros|2011-01-26 00:45:16
I thought the beta testing (ya know, for the French beta testing thats been going on around here for a few years), was put on hold until Jan 31st, in which the new super update + translations would be implemented. 

v0.2 ceased patching around summer, last year. The v0.3 update arrive on January 11th, with a lot of things reworked, and systems requiring retesting... e.g. the 10 "released" classes in v0.2 where reduced down to just the Iop and Cra classes so core mechanics could be retested before rolling all the classes back out.
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Remember, Iop is a load more tank-like than Cras (the range factor kind of makes the tank-like powers of the Iop away though, since he'll take damage while coming in closer). Also, the Iop has buffs, so that can affect his/allies damage, boosting his usefulness. Really, the only reason one wouldn't go for an Iop is because of the range (not saying range isn't a big deal, it REALLY is).

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I think the current Cra's are fairly well balanced tho I've only played it up to level 10 and done air/fire skill grinding so far. A Very different feel from dofus's Cra's.

So please, don't pick on my lovely Cra's >:

The smaller fields do change the tactics a lot requiring much more focus on push back effects and the limited use of such skills due to W + AP cuts that down a bit.
Besides, Cra's have all ways relied on knocking blokes into other objects for good damage, so you can't really think they are imbalanced due to raw damage ?

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I'm leveling pretty evenly across the spectrum of the Cra right now, which I understand nerfs me as a whole, but since I've no experience with Dofus I wanted to experiment alot.
In a party, can two Cras activate eachother's beacons? Going further, can a beacon activate another beacon or does it just damage it? I haven't been able to properly test this since I have yet to party but I imagine this would mean a lot for dps as a whole.
Going further, can any elemental ability activate a beacon? Like can an Iop activate a Cra beacon?

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No, you can only activate your own beacon as far as I can tell. And one beacon doesn't activate another.

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Ikerus|2011-02-10 08:55:00
No, you can only activate your own beacon as far as I can tell. And one beacon doesn't activate another.

Beacons cant activate each other, however, a spell with AoE or Rebound can activate them both. That is, if they're both yours. Casting Exploding Arrow on 2 Fire Beacons will activate them both. Casting Piercing Arrow on 1 Earth Beacon will make it jump to the next beacon activating them both. Casting Spell Storm ( or whatever the AoE wind spell is ) on 2 Wind Beacons will activate them both.
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GingerGerald|2011-02-11 21:45:32
Ikerus|2011-02-10 08:55:00
No, you can only activate your own beacon as far as I can tell. And one beacon doesn't activate another.
 
Beacons cant activate each other, however, a spell with AoE or Rebound can activate them both. That is, if they're both yours. Casting Exploding Arrow on 2 Fire Beacons will activate them both. Casting Piercing Arrow on 1 Earth Beacon will make it jump to the next beacon activating them both. Casting Spell Storm ( or whatever the AoE wind spell is ) on 2 Wind Beacons will activate them both.

 
Yeah, you're right. Beacons definitely can activate each other. Saw a pretty good strategy with placing two fire beacons on either side.

The reason I didn't think it was working was because of the way Storm Arrow works, so that's my bad.
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