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Thoughts on Iop

By ShijiLeetSauce February 09, 2012, 23:24:56

Anyone else here who's played dofus and wakfu think that wakfu's iop is lacking a lot? all my fave spells gone, mostly just punching everything on a single square. Jump is like 2 squares? Sad day iop used to be such an awesome class in dofus sad

Oh and those who haven't check it out Click here

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I just think it takes some getting used to. I mean they are individual games so we shouldn't really expect them to be the same.
In my personal opinion, I LOOOOOOVVVEEEE iops in this game compared to wakfu. I feel as though in wakfu (and not only with the iops, but every class), that this class has been more specified for its role. You have numerous components in their skill trees that make them effective as the "go-getting warriors". Charge and SIP help u get closer while doing dmg to opponents compared to you getting massive mp gear or wasting half of ur ap in jump to get to your opponent. Jump in Wakfu is a little more ap conscience as well. Even though you don't get as far, you aren't cutting too much into ap which would be used for a small combo.
Bolt, Shaker, Judgment, etc your favorite moves are supposed to do what they should, wailing out the damage from close range. it's how it should be. And don't even get me started on passive moves. Although I miss my swoll iop spirit animation, its more time conscience with compulsion and authority (plus you have the 10% clapping thing which is nice).

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Score : 177

I also miss the dofus Iop, this one feels more bland imo.

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Score : 1716

The Dofus Iop was nice, but I like this one too. 1000 years have passed so they shouldn't be the same. That said, it bugs me how some people still think Iops in Wakfu are OP. The ones from Dofus are more OP than these, unless they have hugely nerfed the Dofus one in the pass few months.

On another note Legato rocks, now off to watch Trigun!happy 

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Score : 1809

Placebo effect. People see how Iops scale fairly well if a person knows how to allocate their points compared to other classes like Sacrier, Xelor, and Feca who don't really come together until mid to late game.

Iops are by no means OP. What I do see happening is alot of people doing too much.

I don't pretend to know the ins and outs of every class, but I have a pretty solid idea of how Iops operate, and if a 20/20 compulsion Iop joins the party who has been stacking nothing but their elemental attribute people are going to think they are over powered, but don't even bother to ask what that individual sacrificed to pull the damage off.

If the word over powered wants to be thrown around go use that term where it belongs with the Srams.

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Score : 119

I'm sorry but you clearly havent done your research at all. Iop is definetely overpowered. It's not up for debate it's a straight out fact. it's due to the fact that their base damage is way higher than the other classes in the game. An 8ap earth iop can hit 170 base damage (double shaker, gutting gust) with zero wakfu points.

one example:
8ap cra (air 94 dmg) (earth 112 dmg) huge difference, and cra is pure dmg class...

if you look at the base damage on the rest of the classes you will see the same thing over and over again. almost every class at 8 or 9 AP will hit between 100-130 base damage. And to top it off most classes do not get compulsion and authority which are HUGE % increases to an already super high base damage amount.

I tried to play sadida as my main. 90 base damage and zero damage increasers in my tree. comparing myself to same level iops ( we were all level 40) i had to waste 3 turns summoning pets to get up to 10 damage less than them. that's right, 3 turn build up to do LESS damage than them. Not to mention that damage wasnt even focused because my pets run around hitting the wrong targets. And during the first 3 turns when i was doing nearly no damage by summoning, that's right the iops were doing full damage...so all the buildup to do less damage than them.

I ran tons of guild groups at levels 30-45. The same is true for every class. Iops just stomp them in damage, and they dont pump elemental dmg like someone posted above, they pump pure HP. our Osas needed a turn to summon, and still did less damage. Our cras who went glass cannon build with zero HP were still doing less damage. Our Enutrofs were only there to get us loot as their damage was even worse. Our pandas were doing substantially less damage and if earth needed 2-3 turns build up to STILL do less damage...Fecas provide no real support and also did far less damage. our xelors did less damage but at least they can remove AP and be useful. The only other useful class was our sacriers whom still did less damage but could take a lot more beating.

The only class rivaling the iops in dmg at all was our srams. And everybody already agrees srams are OP and they are receiving a nerf in the upcoming patch.

In the end, the only useful classes in a group were Iop, Sram, Sacrier, and Xelor (and maybe enutrof if you count loot whore). Cra, Eniripsa, Sadida, Osamoda, Feca, and Enutrof all came in at roughly half the damage of an iop/sram and did not have enough utility to be useful in comparison to just adding another iop/sram in their place.

That leaves us with 2 damage classes worth playing, 1 tank, and1 support class worth playing. All the rest had no purpose or functionality at all.

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Score : 1716

@Halagren: Imo, none of that really proves anything.

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Score : 119

rofl how can you say that proves nothing? im an experienced player that grouped for many many hours within my guild. in the end, 2 damage classes, 1 tank, 1 support. all the rest were better off replaced by another iop/sram. it's very simple, do the math if you dont understand.

the proof is in the numbers my friend, which i listed. look at the numbers.

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Score : 3440
Halagren|2012-02-13 21:37:13
rofl how can you say that proves nothing? im an experienced player that grouped for many many hours within my guild. in the end, 2 damage classes, 1 tank, 1 support. all the rest were better off replaced by another iop/sram. it's very simple, do the math if you dont understand.

the proof is in the numbers my friend, which i listed. look at the numbers.
The problem is that you're looking at only one number, Damage. What about Resist? What about Hp? Dodge and Lock? Initiative? Say what you will about these stats but they are not worthless. All other classes have special abilities that are very dangerous to an Iop, especially at later levels.

And if you think that Srams are OP just because of their damage then you are sadly mistaken.
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Score : 1716
Tavish-DeGroot|2012-02-13 22:16:29
Halagren|2012-02-13 21:37:13
rofl how can you say that proves nothing? im an experienced player that grouped for many many hours within my guild. in the end, 2 damage classes, 1 tank, 1 support. all the rest were better off replaced by another iop/sram. it's very simple, do the math if you dont understand.

the proof is in the numbers my friend, which i listed. look at the numbers.
The problem is that you're looking at only one number, Damage. What about Resist? What about Hp? Dodge and Lock? Initiative? Say what you will about these stats but they are not worthless. All other classes have special abilities that are very dangerous to an Iop, especially at later levels.

And if you think that Srams are OP just because of their damage then you are sadly mistaken.
^^This. I was just to tired to type.
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Score : 119

Love how you arent backing up your statements with any real facts at all. You claim they are all dangerous classes, be more specific because ive already seen them all in action and you are just wrong. Iop, Sram, Sacrier, and Xelor. there is absolutely no reason to bring any other class into a group as it will be more beneficial to bring another iop/sram. why dont you try specifically stating what would be worth it and why. Again ive seen every class in group action level 40-50ish so please explain why they are supposedly dangerous.

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Score : 289
Halagren|2012-02-13 23:55:45
Love how you arent backing up your statements with any real facts at all. You claim they are all dangerous classes, be more specific because ive already seen them all in action and you are just wrong. Iop, Sram, Sacrier, and Xelor. there is absolutely no reason to bring any other class into a group as it will be more beneficial to bring another iop/sram. why dont you try specifically stating what would be worth it and why. Again ive seen every class in group action level 40-50ish so please explain why they are supposedly dangerous.
Click here

Just an example.

P.S. Why does everyone get so mad on these forums when someone disagrees with them? I never understood why, they must have a reason to disagree, and when so many people back up their statements it must be correct info to some extent.
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Score : 1716
Lionisio|2012-02-14 00:57:25
Halagren|2012-02-13 23:55:45
Love how you arent backing up your statements with any real facts at all. You claim they are all dangerous classes, be more specific because ive already seen them all in action and you are just wrong. Iop, Sram, Sacrier, and Xelor. there is absolutely no reason to bring any other class into a group as it will be more beneficial to bring another iop/sram. why dont you try specifically stating what would be worth it and why. Again ive seen every class in group action level 40-50ish so please explain why they are supposedly dangerous.
Click here

Just an example.

P.S. Why does everyone get so mad on these forums when someone disagrees with them? I never understood why, they must have a reason to disagree, and when so many people back up their statements it must be correct info to some extent.
They might not like losing, whether it be arguments or anything else. I have a couple friends who get so angry they start hitting things(normally tables) if they even slightly start to lose at anything.
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Score : 289
Jinouga|2012-02-14 01:13:48
Lionisio|2012-02-14 00:57:25
Halagren|2012-02-13 23:55:45
Love how you arent backing up your statements with any real facts at all. You claim they are all dangerous classes, be more specific because ive already seen them all in action and you are just wrong. Iop, Sram, Sacrier, and Xelor. there is absolutely no reason to bring any other class into a group as it will be more beneficial to bring another iop/sram. why dont you try specifically stating what would be worth it and why. Again ive seen every class in group action level 40-50ish so please explain why they are supposedly dangerous.
Click here

Just an example.

P.S. Why does everyone get so mad on these forums when someone disagrees with them? I never understood why, they must have a reason to disagree, and when so many people back up their statements it must be correct info to some extent.
They might not like losing, whether it be arguments or anything else. I have a couple friends who get so angry they start hitting things(normally tables) if they even slightly start to lose at anything.
I have a friend like that too, I will never play games with him when he's drunk ever again, it's the most annoying thing ever. It's childish and unsportsmanlike. I just wish people were more open to criticism and losing and take it as learning, rather then them thinking people are looking down upon them.
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Score : 1809
Halagren|2012-02-13 21:05:57
I'm sorry but you clearly havent done your research at all. Iop is definetely overpowered. It's not up for debate it's a straight out fact. it's due to the fact that their base damage is way higher than the other classes in the game. An 8ap earth iop can hit 170 base damage (double shaker, gutting gust) with zero wakfu points.

one example:
8ap cra (air 94 dmg) (earth 112 dmg) huge difference, and cra is pure dmg class...

if you look at the base damage on the rest of the classes you will see the same thing over and over again. almost every class at 8 or 9 AP will hit between 100-130 base damage. And to top it off most classes do not get compulsion and authority which are HUGE % increases to an already super high base damage amount.

I tried to play sadida as my main. 90 base damage and zero damage increasers in my tree. comparing myself to same level iops ( we were all level 40) i had to waste 3 turns summoning pets to get up to 10 damage less than them. that's right, 3 turn build up to do LESS damage than them. Not to mention that damage wasnt even focused because my pets run around hitting the wrong targets. And during the first 3 turns when i was doing nearly no damage by summoning, that's right the iops were doing full damage...so all the buildup to do less damage than them.

I ran tons of guild groups at levels 30-45. The same is true for every class. Iops just stomp them in damage, and they dont pump elemental dmg like someone posted above, they pump pure HP. our Osas needed a turn to summon, and still did less damage. Our cras who went glass cannon build with zero HP were still doing less damage. Our Enutrofs were only there to get us loot as their damage was even worse. Our pandas were doing substantially less damage and if earth needed 2-3 turns build up to STILL do less damage...Fecas provide no real support and also did far less damage. our xelors did less damage but at least they can remove AP and be useful. The only other useful class was our sacriers whom still did less damage but could take a lot more beating.

The only class rivaling the iops in dmg at all was our srams. And everybody already agrees srams are OP and they are receiving a nerf in the upcoming patch.

In the end, the only useful classes in a group were Iop, Sram, Sacrier, and Xelor (and maybe enutrof if you count loot whore). Cra, Eniripsa, Sadida, Osamoda, Feca, and Enutrof all came in at roughly half the damage of an iop/sram and did not have enough utility to be useful in comparison to just adding another iop/sram in their place.

That leaves us with 2 damage classes worth playing, 1 tank, and1 support class worth playing. All the rest had no purpose or functionality at all.
I find the following fallacies in your argument: Ad Hominenm, Shifting the Issue, Erroneous Appeal to Authority, Either/Or, Begging the Question, Fallacy of Division, and Sweeping Generalizations.

Other classes being weak doesn't make the Iop over powered. Your argument is full of holes, and is supported by nothing creditable. The whole thing reads like complete bias.
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Score : 3440
Halagren|2012-02-13 23:55:45
Love how you arent backing up your statements with any real facts at all. You claim they are all dangerous classes, be more specific because ive already seen them all in action and you are just wrong. Iop, Sram, Sacrier, and Xelor. there is absolutely no reason to bring any other class into a group as it will be more beneficial to bring another iop/sram. why dont you try specifically stating what would be worth it and why. Again ive seen every class in group action level 40-50ish so please explain why they are supposedly dangerous.

Can't you just accept advice from more experienced players? Especially ones who have been in "endgame" group PvP?
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Score : 3550
LeunKiithsaHunter|2012-02-14 02:10:29
I find the following fallacies in your argument: Ad Hominenm, Shifting the Issue, Erroneous Appeal to Authority, Either/Or, Begging the Question, Fallacy of Division, and Sweeping Generalizations.

Other classes being weak doesn't make the Iop over powered. Your argument is full of holes, and is supported by nothing creditable. The whole thing reads like complete bias.
While I do not necessarily agree with him, I don't find his argument bad, or full of holes to any extent. It is just as viable as many of the other solid arguments on the forum. Oh and other classes being too weak does make the iop overpowered, relativism

Tavish-DeGroot|2012-02-14 05:01:06
Halagren|2012-02-13 23:55:45
Love how you arent backing up your statements with any real facts at all. You claim they are all dangerous classes, be more specific because ive already seen them all in action and you are just wrong. Iop, Sram, Sacrier, and Xelor. there is absolutely no reason to bring any other class into a group as it will be more beneficial to bring another iop/sram. why dont you try specifically stating what would be worth it and why. Again ive seen every class in group action level 40-50ish so please explain why they are supposedly dangerous.

Can't you just accept advice from more experienced players? Especially ones who have been in "endgame" group PvP?
Even religious people question their gods, so your definitely going to need more solid evidence than that.

My opinion: iops are strong, but not too strong in any way from my perspective. Making them any weaker would seriously be doing too much, some classes the can beat, some they can't, and some they struggle against. I personally have never had a hard time with one, and wish for it to stay that way.

Oh an @lionisio

about "and when so many people back up their statements it must be correct info to some extent."


That is only really applicable to success vs failure situations in my opinion. By success vs failure I mean a situation like "will this build will work?" When it comes to situations like this, which I view as different, I don't think it applies. I am often one to take the unbeaten path so statements like that have set me off sometimes because history is full of examples in which everyone believed in something only to eventually learn they were all wrong and the one guy they criticized was right.
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remember no one has been "end-game" imo, but thats my opinion, I'm still one for thinking stacking hp really isn't such a great option.

Iops are damage, thats about it besides their push back and what 2 square jump.

If you've done later dungeons in Dofus and can think (or assume) that dungeons here will be similar later on requiring more then just damage and an Iop really brings nothing to the table there.

Also on another note why does wakfu seem to have more pigeonholed classes? Iop has a lot of single square attacks and what I think 1 ranged attack in earth tree?(minus punch and charge those are more of gap closers) I feel Iop not only is boring in wakfu but really has few ways to damage compared to it's predecessor.

You Punch, you stomp, you pass.sleep 

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Score : 4826

I do think Iops stupidly high base damage on their attacks is an issue and will continue to be an issue until they rethink what they want Iop to be.

The game functions because stats tend to have a natural counter.
If someone is stacking elemental attack you can stack elemental resistance to try and counter that.
If someone is stacking lock you can add dodge to weaken that.
The issue is that the counter to Base Damage is...well... HP.

The way the game is supposed to progress is that as you and your spells level up your HP and damage from your spells is supposed to increase at some proportion to offset the growth of each other.

Here lies the issue, some Iop spells have a base damage that is abnormally high. I mean the base damage on some of their spells would be like if other classes were able to crit 100% of the time for absolutely nothing. The two biggest culprits of this are Jabs and Thunderbolt (Shaker is actually pretty fine where it's at. Most 4 AP Earth skills do around that much damage).

I'm not against a close range class like Iop being a high damaging class at close range. The problem is that they get that ability to do this essentially for free right out of the box because of their high damage abilities. No support skills needed. This allows them to dedicate their points to other things such as more HP and survivability which they already pretty amazing at.

Instead of Iops having this natural high base damage that is virtually uncounterable, I think a better way of doing Iop would be to return the base damage of their spells to reasonable levels and instead enhance their elemental damage with their support spells even further.

This, I think, would put them more in line with other classes, especially at lower levels, as they now have to invest points to distinguish themselves.

Of course I'd rather them just rethink Iop from being the close range death monster that you are essentially forced to kite, which while works pretty well in a 1v1 scenario (assuming you actually get a decent map) kinda loses its balance in a group battle, into the close range figher that is more or less impossible to escape from and design Iop from there where maybe depending on what you spec into you can become a close range glass cannon, an unkillable juggernaut, or a well rounded fighter.

but it's ultimately Amakna's choice what they want to do with Iop. It's certainly possible to balance Iop around the concept of high base damage attacks, but it just seems like it would be far more difficult then designing Iop around other factors.

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Score : 1809

High damage abilities? Jab and Thunderstrike are pretty pathetic until the player levels compulsion, elemental damage, and authority; and seeks out AP and MP gear--others classes do benefit from this as well. Stop lying to the community, and only argue points that highlight the cons of certian classes, and misleads with false pros about others.

A level 23 Jab is 8 damage base. That-is-weak. Three jabs equates to six ability points; which is 24 damage with nothing boosting the damage. There are other classes who don't even have to use passives to outshine damage like that in one turn.

What a load of bullshyt that is being thrown around about Iop.The fact people are trying to argue a melee dps class with little utility is doing more damage at melee then a range dps with utility is laughable.

A individual wants to argue balance is all well in good until points become highly skewed, bias, and generalized; even worse players are willing to actually lie about Iops, so they can turn them into an easy kill. All I see is individuals who can't comprehend or critically think. The Iop has been weakened time and again because of bad development, and now the player base has a very generic-bulldozing-water down melee class who does one thing: damage

Now a few baddies want to take away what Iop has going for it? Then what do the Iops become?
Mobility is GD choir until flatten and Jump is level 9. A player can only use jump as many times as he has Wakfu. Flatten has a chance to stun the player as much as his opponent, and the Iop had to dump specialty points into those specialties to make them even remotely viable, but lets discount or discredit those facts.

Lets also make up stories that an Iop does not have to take compulsion, expert locker, virility, and authority to even come anywhere near what everyone is complaining about. Iops have next to no wiggle room for custimization.

Iop's play style is move forward, and do damage. Buncha GD baddies whining they were touched by the big mean Iop who out played them, or out leveled them.

People are complaining about Iop when a tank Feca can do equivalent damage? Christ their are videos out their that attest to this. People wanna whine about Iop when Srams can steal MP, HP, and AP in absurd amounts? People wanna bish about Iop when Sacriers can stack HP, Vigrrous, Anggrr, Morbbid, and Blood Pact; with all their mobility and utility?

Fcking hypo-critics. The grass is always greener isn't it?

GD sheep man, GD sheep.

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