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Iop calculations

By Ilyanya - MEMBER - January 06, 2017, 15:11:28
Update 10-08-2019

Found this old thread of mine which i strangely enough felt offended by the gentleman below trying to improve the theorycrafting i was doing here. I don't understand why i got offended anymore and upon retrospect i believe that this post is still valuable with the info Matt5150 has provided for players nowadays, seeing that Iop combos haven't really changed from the time i created this post.

So for any new and old players who are into some numbers, enjoy!
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Score : 3970

that moment when the class that is considerated the least smart beings in the world of twelve require so much theorycrafting

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Score : 6190

Thanks for your post.

I think you have to improve a little your combos and it's useless to include SIP when you don't have focus (just use AirAirAir).

If you want, I can show you what I can do in the first 2 turns with astrub dummy. I think I can almost kill the 0% res without food in 2 turns.

@RaderElcaroman yeah the playstyle is very simple: I see things moving, I hit them!
but doing right moves at the right time it's not that easy, especially with Air combos.
There are a lot of bad iop around and very few that know what to do (and I'm part of the former lol).

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Score : 66

@Matt5150 Thanks for the feedback though actually if you read what i said before every combo you can see that i added that the first combo had no punch, same for the second combo and the third combo does have punch (you can also see that the first 2 combos don't have SIP twice. I didn't say focus but instead used the punch state.
And no, 3 flurries, or 1 jab isn't as strong as 1 extra SIP (except for ofcourse the target's fire resist is higher than its air resist)
Cause as you can see, one SIP does 29 dmg per AP whereas Flurry and Jabs are 27 dmg per AP

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Score : 6190

Sorry, I mean while you are not in the punch state is useless to use SIP.
So this is not the ideal combo -> Optimal single target no wall combo & no punch

I only use SIP only if the enemy has superhigh air res (or incrediblu low fire res), otherwise I never use it in normal combos (ofc still use it while i'm in the punch state)

TL;DR SIP is useful only during punch turn.

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Score : 66
Matt5150|2017-01-06 19:49:34
Sorry, I mean while you are not in the punch state is useless to use SIP.
So this is not the ideal combo -> Optimal single target no wall combo & no punch

I only use SIP only if the enemy has superhigh air res (or incrediblu low fire res), otherwise I never use it in normal combos (ofc still use it while i'm in the punch state)

TL;DR SIP is useful only during punch turn.
Ok, i thought it was clear in that combination but i'll explain it again. The first SIP i used there is being boosted by the uppercut combo so +20% damage, this means that it does 104 damage if you instead immediately follow up with the flurry combo it means that your first spell after the uppercut combo is jabs, the 81 dmg from jabs becomes 97 dmg from the +20% dmg from the uppercut combo. So no matter what SIP is stronger on a target with equal air and fire resist. After you cast SIP the first time you can still continue on with your air combo afterwards.

And again SIP HAS HIGHER BASE DAMAGE THAN ANY AIR SPELL 
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Score : 6190
NOTE: The goal is to chain your Air combos, like Flurry combo + Wallop combo OR Wallop combo + GG combo.
If you use 13AP, you can chain better Air combos, but with 12AP it works fine too, and it's a more versatile build.
Another important thing is that I usually play like this:
First turn: Focus and then GG combos and Flurry combo
Second turn: Punch turn and SIP x2, GG combo x2
Third turn: Only now I use the combos explained below (depend on the situation)
Fourth turn: start from the beginning with Focus and GG combos


If you are using TWO SIP only to get boosted ONE by Upper combo then it's still not worth it.
Just use another Gutting Gust combo and only 1 SIP
Something like
Gutting Gust combo
Uppercut combo (don't hit the target with your second Gust)

SIP
Flurry combo
Gutting Gust combo
Flurry (1ap left)

That should be 633 base damage

OR you can boost your Rocknoceros (I use it to remove MP from the enemy and make his escape a bit difficult)
GG combo
Up combo
Rock
Flurry combo
GG combo

622 base damage (-mp to your enemy)

OR just use your last 4AP to push away your enemy with Wallop combo and run
GG combo
GG combo
Up combo
Flurry combo (Jabs gets boosted +20%)
Wallop combo

626 base damage
Push away the enemy and run (seems a jock but sometimes you don't want to end your turn next to certain enemies)

A more realistic combo would be:
Charge (monsters usually run away from me)
GG combo
Up combo
Flurry combo (Jabs gets boosted +20%)
GG combo
Flurry

~620 base damage

And Finally, if the monster is so stupid to go against a wall, he deserve to die
Flurry combo
Wallop combo
GG combo
Wallop combo
GG combo

(and you have 1AP left that you cant use)
697 base damage

EDIT:
BONUS: CHEATER COMBO 12AP 3MP 6WP

Up combo
Flurry combo
Flurry combo
Flurry combo
Wallop combo
GG combo
Wallop

749 base damage

Never used it in a real battle and you can land only 2 uppercut to your target, 4 uppercut are on empty cell
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Score : 66
Matt5150|2017-01-06 22:45:49
NOTE: The goal is to chain your Air combos, like Flurry combo + Wallop combo OR Wallop combo + GG combo.
Sorry, what? I think all i did was to try and chain the combos.
If you use 13AP, you can chain better Air combos, but with 12AP it works fine too, and it's a more versatile build.Another important thing is that I usually play like this:First turn: Focus and then GG combos and Flurry comboSecond turn: Punch turn and SIP x2, GG combo x2Third turn: Only now I use the combos explained below (depend on the situation)Fourth turn: start from the beginning with Focus and GG combos

You need to consider that your low base dmg spells (flurry/wallop/uppercut/gutting gust) don't get as much of a boost from your elemental damage as your big burst spells (SIP, Jabs, maybe even Iop's Wrath for the wanted AoE burst) You seem to be missing my point of making "Optimal combos" whereas you're trying to stuff as much as possible within your limits. Yes, these combos will work, would i advise them. The 1st, 3rd and 2nd last, sure, i would count these as viable in an actual battle. The rest i would honestly call nonsense. Also, the damage per point spent ratio is a bare minimal upgrade to my first suggested combo, your wallop+wall combo nevertheless is a true upgrade and would be a better option than what i chose to do.
If you are using TWO SIP only to get boosted ONE by Upper combo then it's still not worth it.Just use another Gutting Gust combo and only 1 SIP Something like Gutting Gust combo Uppercut combo (don't hit the target with your second Gust) SIP Flurry combo Gutting Gust combo Flurry (1ap left) That should be 633 base damage
3ap + 3ap + 2ap + 3ap + 1ap = 12ap
GG*3 = 3mp & upper*2 = 2 wp
12 + 3 + 2 = 17
142 + 74 + 104 + 160 + 142 + 27 = 649
649 / 17 = 38.1 dmg per point spent. I would count this as a proper replacement for my first combo.

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OR you can boost your Rocknoceros (I use it to remove MP from the enemy and make his escape a bit difficult) GG combo Up combo Rock Flurry combo GG combo 622 base damage (-mp to your enemy)
Sure, this can be a thing but i think it was obvious that these combos were focused on an air/fire build.

OR just use your last 4AP to push away your enemy with Wallop combo and run GG combo GG combo Up combo Flurry combo (Jabs gets boosted +20%)Wallop combo 626 base damage Push away the enemy and run (seems a jock but sometimes you don't want to end your turn next to certain enemies)
Yes, if you want to run then this is indeed a viable option, i will add this as a new combo option for if you wish to flee from an enemy.

3 ap + 3 ap + 2ap + 4ap = 12 ap
3 mp + 2 wp + 12 ap = 17 points
142 + 142 + 74 + 176 (with 20% boost to jabs) + 108 = 642
642 / 17 = 37.7 dmg per point spent

A more realistic combo would be:Charge (monsters usually run away from me)GG combo Up comboFlurry combo (Jabs gets boosted +20%)GG comboFlurry~620 base damage
Again, this thread was aimed at the air/fire iop. If you're gonna use earth attacks the actual damage output compared to my combos is way lower if you start counting in your elemental stats. Here we're thinking of someone in a team with a player with map control and/or a locker so that you can stay close or walk a few cells and pull off your combo.

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And Finally, if the monster is so stupid to go against a wall, he deserve to die Flurry combo Wallop combo GG combo Wallop combo GG combo (and you have 1AP left that you cant use)697 base damage

Ok, i will count this one as an actual good combo if the mob is so dumb as to actually move up against a wall or one of your allies. I will include this to the list of combos.

2ap + 3ap + 1ap + 4ap + 1ap = 11ap
2 wp + 2 mp + 11ap = 15 points
214 + 138 + 88 + 138 + 88 = 666
666 / 15 = 44.4

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EDIT: BONUS: CHEATER COMBO 12AP 3MP 6WP Up combo Flurry combo Flurry combo Flurry combo Wallop combo GG combo Wallop 749 base damage

2mp + 1wp + 2ap + 1wp + 2ap + 2wp + 2ap + 2wp + 3ap + 1ap + 1mp + 2ap = 3mp + 6wp + 12ap = 21 points
(totally ridiculous, not even mentioning the 6wp of which 4 are wasted if you even have 4 at this point of the fight)
95 + 160 + 160 + 106 + 138 + 88 + 54 = 801
801 / 21 = 38.1 dmg per point spent

(i don't know how you get your calculations cause according to mine yours are wrong all the time)
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Score : 6190
Ilyanya|2017-01-07 00:55:28
If you are using TWO SIP only to get boosted ONE by Upper combo then it's still not worth it.Just use another Gutting Gust combo and only 1 SIP Something like Gutting Gust combo Uppercut combo (don't hit the target with your second Gust) SIP Flurry combo Gutting Gust combo Flurry (1ap left) That should be 633 base damage
3ap + 3ap + 2ap + 3ap + 1ap = 12ap
GG*3 = 3mp & upper*2 = 2 wp
12 + 3 + 2 = 17
142 + 74 + 104 + 160 + 142 + 27 = 649
649 / 17 = 38.1 dmg per point spent. I would count this as a proper replacement for my first combo.

You are counting even attacks to empity cells, that's why your calcs are wrong.
You can do only 2 GG per target, so if you want to use 2 GG combo and you need to use more GG (for example for uppercut combo) you have to use it on empty cells.
Let me explain better with a full spell usage:

54 + 27 + 21 + 42 + 53 + 104 + 81 + 53 + 27 + 54 + 27 + 21 + 42 + 27
633 damage to your target

Same for other combos, and a full GG combo does 144 base damage, not 142
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Score : 66
Yeah, not coming back to posting something on the forums if i'm gonna get someone constantly nagging at me, there's no use to even have a thread if all that's going on is some useless arguement. I only tried being helpful

 
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Score : 17359

All he's saying is that what you're doing is less optimal.

Air is always more damage than Fire unless the scenario is sub-optimal in itself.

If you use SIP you deal 87 damage for 3 AP

If you use Wallop + Flurry 81 damage for 3 AP

If you add Gutting Gust to SIP you deal an additional 21 damage with no added AP cost.

However if you add Gutting Gust to Wallop + Flurry you deal an additional 63 damage with no added AP cost.

Total damage comes out to 108 vs 144.

the optimal combo across two turns is as follows

Assuming 0 concentration, and assuming the passives Virility and Show Off are equipped and Compulsion is not equipped:

12 AP 5 WP 4 MP

Focus
Increase
Wallop, Flurry, Gust
Wallop, Flurry, Gust
Uppercut, Jabs, Uppercut, Flurry
Wallop

and on the following turn

Super Iop Punch
Gust on empty cell, Gust on empty cell
Uppercut
Super Iop Punch
Jabs, Uppercut, Flurry
Wallop, Flurry, Gust
Flurry
Gust

In this scenario you prime your tripled SIP to get aligned with a +60% FD bonus from Preparation, while also firing off a +40% FD Uppercut in the process, regen the wakfu point, burn it for a flurry combo, and then wrap up with a gust combo + burn spare ap and mp on the flurry gust

This is how iop is used to the fullest

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Score : 99

Well, I'd be happy to get such an extensive feedback as you did. I'll gladly try this out when I'm far enough, AP-wise. Thanks guys/gals!

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Score : 735

Why people are getting irritated so easily these days?? sad

I mean he didn't insult you by any means plus he only tried to correct you. It's not like you are forced to listen to him.

Totally written in good intentions.

Bih thanks for the answers smile. I'll be able use my iops to fullest now.

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Score : 66

Whoa, reading back on this post, i don't know what came to me that got me so angry fear

However, despite the boiling argument i got going i still believe that a lot of the number cracking and such going on here is still useful nowadays

From what i can see after quickly scanning this post through again i believe most of these numbers are still decently accurate and most of all, the combos presented by the other contributors are still accurate.

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Score : -59

What's the best EPIC relic combo for IOP level 200? or better yet all best gears and how to get them(IOP)

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Score : 200

Fan Shield/Ogrest Wrath+ Agony  Companion....

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