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["New" Player] What's the point to make a Single Summon Build?

By Amagakuro - MEMBER - September 11, 2017, 02:52:36
Hi guys, I was used to play like 2-3 years ago when the Osamodas could even summon 2 Beasts at a time; know though, when i tried the osamodas again it seems that i could only summon 1 beast at a time, so i'm wondering, why i should not focus my build on the Dragon+Summon instead of a full Single Summon Build?

Probably you're not understanding my question since i'm confused too, but looking on some builds there are differences between the 2 builds, and i'm wondering, why? I mean, if the summon limit is always 1, what's the cons on doing the dragon+summon build compared to a single summon build?

I know i made a mess with the english, i hope you can forgive me xD
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1)their stats do not decrease compared to their wild counterparts,and they're player controlled (so no more losing resistances and exposing yourself while doing that weird summon possesion handstab ritual,so yay!)

2)some of the osa spells on dragon form deals more damage and have better effects when they interact with a summon (like crackler punch,sramva slash,etc)

3)even if you didn't asked for this,control is still a crucial stats for osas,either by playing as a buffer or dragon,you'll get more dressage or damage done on dragon form

you can go back to normal mode after turning dragon (and summon getting a damage debuff/losing the passive revival effect) and it sures takes a while to memorize the spells effects on the different modes

vanilla summoning a mob and not buffing players/going dragon feels a little bland,but that's just mi opinion
 
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Wait, if i'm in dragon i can't buff neither the summon or the players?

If so, what should be a good starter move as an osamodas? I mean, if i start as 1st or 2nd what should i do, summon, buff, dragon?
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Amagakuro|2017-09-11 11:01:10
Wait, if i'm in dragon i can't buff neither the summon or the players?
 


As a dragon, you get +ap +mp +range, backstab and +60% dmg . And you'd like to spend your turn buffing?
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That's what i'm asking, what's the whole point of the Single Summon Build?
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You are right, there's no point in a badgeroxxor with 3014 atk.
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badgeroxxor? xD

EDIT: Oh, cool summon, but as i said i'm new, and i'm genuinely asking about the 2 builds, i'll appreciate if you can point out the major differences between the 2 builds because to me, to a noob eyes, they seems pretty identical.
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There are no cons to being dragon+summon as oppose to going full summon+buff and there's very little reason not to be using dragon form. You can switch back and forth and still apply buffs to your summon to negate the % damage dealt reduction or buff your allies if so inclined. most of the buffs you'd be using last multiple turns so there's no harm done switching to Dragon in the down-time. You can still improve existing DPT while throwing your own into the pot. 
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People are dumb. Stop giving bad advice.

Dragon Osas excel at Damage and can work together with their summon to do damage. 

Summoner Osas excel at defense and rely on their summon's high damage with buffs to kill things while they stay alive as long as possible.

Both play styles have their merits and both are viable specs. Some prefer to become a Dragon, some prefer to stay human.

There is some overlap, as you don't have to strictly be one or the other, but there's not much room for it in the endgame meta. From low levels to high levels, Summoner and Dragon are viable.
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Oh, so Osamodas are out of the End Game? Really? :X
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Amagakuro|2017-09-11 19:37:15
Oh, so Osamodas are out of the End Game? Really? :X


You misunderstand, Osa is fine at endgame.  But switching between the two forms for Osa becomes less and less viable the closer you get to endgame since you need to specialize your gear and build for the one you prefer.

So try out both and see which one you enjoy more.
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Well, but how can i specialize one of the 2 builds with equip? I mean, i kinda use the same skills within normal and dragon form.
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Osa before was to OP in PVP that is it is Nerfed. 

Why don't you level up and see the End Game Osa???

 
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Because it's not clear for me how i've to build this damn class.

I mean, i'll lvl up the osa, i'm lvl 82 right now, but still i don't know the difference between building it pure buff+summon or dragon+summon, HOW can a pure buff+sumon build himself like that, there is some equip that enhance that kind of gameplay? If not there is no point into NO transforming into a dragon.
Kiraki above said that more i progress and more i'll find hard to do both of these builds, but i'll like to know WHICH are the differences since, for now, a buff+summon build can easily be complemented by the dragon form, that's why, for me, there isn't any other choice to play an osamodas, fire/air for buff+summon+dragon.

Sorry for my bad eng again, i don't know how explain my concerns better than that.
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There are equipment that enhance that kind of gameplay. 
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I recommend going Dragon + Summon, if only because having more options is better than depending entirely on summons to do your work for you. Your damage output is higher as a hybrid as well, since once you hit turn 2 you'll be dishing out damage from your (slightly weakened) summon AND your dragon form.
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Well, buffs on summons run out from time to time and you'll need to renew them in human form (ap buff, dmg buff, crit buff... etc). That means you have to turn back and forth between human/dragon form every 3 turns (4ap went poof). I found it tedious in long fights. Thus, I slap on rock passive and be a lazy pure summoner.

Of course, you can always ignore buffing the summon. Some dragon/summon builds put chance points into backstab so that dragon osa and their summons both benefit from it.
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I feel like you're getting information but it's coming at you in kind of a random point mass. I'll try to break it down a bit more.

1. Osamodas is a strong class, the earth tree is a bit lackluster but the Fire/Air provides a lot of utility. Functionally all your spells have 3 states: Dragon, Summoner, and what they do to your pet. Memorizing what does what, when, is the key to being effective just about anywhere, and as a Osa there's pretty much nowhere you're not potentially useful.
2. There isn't a lot of variation in where you choose to focus on Dragon+Summon or Buffer+Summon, after it all boils down the interchange comes down to like 2 passives and maybe 2 spells.  Unless you're trying to break the mold. Ultimately you should choose a playstyle that interests you and despite what they tell you, do that. Because you can take something that sucks, and work on it until at some point people say "WTF was that OP mess?!"
  - Dragon + Summon: I don't see any point in just Dragon because even with the -attack% the pet is still a consistent and reliable damage dealer, some with added mechanics that can help in tricky situations. Summoning does not actually reduce your Control like you might believe, the Control number on the gobgob lowers, but i've tested it, the %damage you gain in dragon form from the lost number is still functionally there.  Aim for ST, AOE, or Dist  (I recommend 2) and then tack on some berserk which provides the most MasteryPerSkillpoint to help add some umph to the pet's damage. (he gets 80% of your Highest Primary & all your secondary damage applies as a universal sum which you can only see in a fight. Don't trust the gobgob). The Whip & Bwark Sneakiness are your path for the Best AP to DMG, although i was able to get some decent mileage out of an AOE build. I just found at bosses the aoe is kinda lackluster.
- Buffer + Summoner: I've seen this work, but i could never see doing it myself. Having a powerful pet that can revive is cool and all, but there are a couple instances that will eat through your pets real fast and then leave you a lackluster addon. Your buffs do last multiple turns, most are 2, i think a couple are 3, but they'll be that way even if you decide to drop out of your Dragon form, throw around a few and jump back into Dragon the following turn. You still want control because control provides you with levels of Dressage in summoner form, all your buffs temporarily reserve amounts of your dressage, so more dressage = more buffs you can have out in play. When you play this way you wanna get all the gear with the most total masteries possible to stack the most % damage onto your pet. It can get pretty bonkers. It also means your masteries are all over the place, but that's okay because they don't really mess with your buffs, which will be just as effective.
3. All the lategame does is kinda compound on the style of play you've chosen to lead. Know all the information you're getting from these guys may be coming through a filter. They may not have mained osa, so their perception of what makes a good osa might be skewed on how they've made an osa fit into their team.

I mained osa 1 character all the way to level 200 before getting my 1st hero. Over time i found Dragon Osa + Summon to be the way that provided very consistent results. I've tried AOE builds, Melee builds, and straight summoner, but eventually they all seemed to lag. I know a couple guys who would refute me and also have mained Osa, but remember there is only one way to play an osa: your way.
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I also use dragon osa but my friend uses 2 full summon osas lvl200 and i was told these advantages.

additionally to what Qreator said :
Yes you can choose the gear with the most masteries but also you can choose the gear with the best balance between resistance and dmg.
an IMPORTANT difference between dragon and full summon osa is the tankyness. dragon is mostly squishy and dies fast compared to the high hp tankish full summon osa. Now let me explain why

Most dragon osas build distance + st + rear or some combination of it and 2 elemental dmg. But but those items excluding rear gear have sometimes bad resistance. Compared to that full summon osa can choose freely from all items and choose the balance between dmg and resistance. Additionally it is one of the rare cases who can use single element gear efficiently(there are some in mid game 120+) because only the highest elemental dmg is calculated you could build only 1 elemental build.

THIS is also a big advantage in the midgame where getting gear is annoying because you lvl up so fast, but you can just use the highest lvl gear that you dropped and you are good to go because the dmg type doesn't matter. Might be an advantage since you are lvl 82.

Aand THE MOST IMPORTANT thing people don't talk about because it's obvious or they forgot it? not sure

DD( final damage or damage dealt) is not effecting summons. That means you can use the rock and motivation passive instead of carnage and dragon strength.

LvL. 2 rock passive provides you with bonus 60% HP which is massive (i think it was not bonus to total HP but nonetheless it's powerful) and lvl.1 is 30% which is also nice and motivation gives you bonus 1 ap. You will end up with -40 DD and you don't do dmg but it's ok your summon does the job.

Another difference is that you can stat your major points into ap,mp,res but instead of DD you can now stat control or range confortably which is also nice when you can't find good control gear you have at least enough for buffing your summon (4th major point is lvl.175 anyways, might be better to stat res last but it's preference)

One concern is that full summon osa is good in the endgame because of the powerful badgeroxxor but there are good summons in your lvl range as well and i think also considering the easier equipment building it might be worth trying.
Good luck and have fun with osamodas
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Thank you very much for this answer! You gave me tons of informations, precisely what i was looking for!

About summons, you say that i will be able to do a double summon? If that so, which is the level range where i'm able to do that? Not at my level i guess, right?
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Amagakuro|2017-09-14 07:29:30
Because it's not clear for me how i've to build this damn class.

I mean, i'll lvl up the osa, i'm lvl 82 right now, but still i don't know the difference between building it pure buff+summon or dragon+summon, HOW can a pure buff+sumon build himself like that, there is some equip that enhance that kind of gameplay? If not there is no point into NO transforming into a dragon.
Kiraki above said that more i progress and more i'll find hard to do both of these builds, but i'll like to know WHICH are the differences since, for now, a buff+summon build can easily be complemented by the dragon form, that's why, for me, there isn't any other choice to play an osamodas, fire/air for buff+summon+dragon.

Sorry for my bad eng again, i don't know how explain my concerns better than that.

It's a little fuzzy.

But basically a pure summon build just tries to collect the highest Mastery bonuses they can get from gear and in their Characteristics... which ends up meaning fairly low Control stats and large sums of Berserk Mastery, and then a confusing mishmash of Distance, Single Target and Area mastery. Their direct spell casting is weak and they can't apply many buffs at a time, but their summons are crazy strong.

A support build tries to run lots of range & control so that they can buff their summon and their allies without running out of Dressage. Getting Range and Control in your gear tends to come at the cost of other stats, and their summons end up a bit weaker as a result.

Building for dragon form means finding the right balance of control, range & usable mastery to make your dragon form a hard hitter without making your summon worthless.

These builds aren't diametrically opposed to each other, but how you set up your spell decks and what gear you use is highly influenced by what's most important to you. And at end-game, the Badgeroxxor summon represents such a huge portion of not just the Osamodas's damage, but the entire team's damage that maximizing their damage output tends to be high on the Osamodas's list of priorities.
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miiitan|2017-09-18 01:13:34
ehm no osa's are not able to summon 2 monster at a time. I must have a typo somewhere or you misunderstood something. could you quote the phrase?

Oh with "2 full summon osa" you meant litterally 2 characters xD, sorry.
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just to make sure i got it right, any kind of secondary damage(meele, ranged, ST, AOE) becomes general damage to the summon?
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Yep. I stat distance 20/20, ST 20/20, AoE 10/20 and then my summon get 50*8*0.8 stats.
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QBmustdie|2017-09-30 02:27:47
Yep. I stat distance 20/20, ST 20/20, AoE 10/20 and then my summon get 50*8*0.8 stats.


then making crit chance+crit dmg for summoner osa is worhless better is rear/berserk dmg
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