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Earth Ecas ASSEMBLE!! Build talk, etc...

By Aqualad - MEMBER - February 16, 2012, 00:06:27
Reactions 48
Score : 1534
SupersunZeratul|2012-02-17 06:12:15
As an Earth Ecaflip your first priorities for points is going to be Precision, Tarot, and a few into DoQ (DoQ has diminishing returns so early on I would only grab the 5 point upgrades, you can grab the others later.).

I have been putting all my points into precision, was that a mistake? Should I spread it out to tarot now? Which one is the most important to max? (And DoQ, when should I use this abilitiy? I've used it a couple times and man does it screw me over when it heals them, which happens quite often)

Also with tarot, will I be needing 'roll again'? just incase I get a bad card. I've been kind of scared to do tarot for this reason.
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Score : 1296

There always many ways to play classes in these types of games, that is the beauty of it. Of course, many seek efficiency...then efficiency can be argued/debated based on situation pve/pvp...etc

However, since many come to posts like this seeking assistance, I'll toss in some paths you can follow; if you so choose. Take it, use it, modify it, ignore it. Choice is your greatest strength =)

------------------------------------
[Pure DPS, no Risk]

Earth Ecaflip [Only use All In]

HP for the first 20 Levels (Or go full Strength from the start, as I did)
Full Strength afterward.

Skip Tarot [Lowers some 'Chance' damage, but eliminates risk]

*Max: Ecaflip's Precision (First 20 Levels)
*Max Roll Again (Next 19 Levels)
- "Roll Again" without Tarot or Dice?! Yes =). Let me explain.
Roll Again costs 1 WP, and boosts your DMG% as well as causing Crit Fail % on every enemy on the battlefield. The best thing about this is, it stacks!. Maxed, it increases DMG by 32%, which you can cast 6 times, and make all mobs have 60% crit fail for that turn. This is great if you fight single mobs, or need one big damage output.

*Max Paws Off (Next 20 Levels)
-Tired of being locked, and have to waste 2 AP on Leap just to get away? This skill will come in handy.

*Max Double or Quits (Next 19 Levels)
- Yes, yes, I said a no risk build. So you can put points into another skill instead if you wish. However, for those random times when you are willing to test your luck (but don't want to rely on luck every turn), cast this once after your already amazing All In damage skill.

------------------------------------------------
[Lady Luck's DPS Build]

Earth Ecaflip [Only use All In, unless you get Ecaflip God Card. If so, then use All or Nothing AFTER using All In]

HP for the first 20 Levels (Or go full Strength from the start, as I did)
Full Strength afterward.

*First point into Ecaflip's Tarot
*Max: Ecaflip's Precision (First 20 Levels)
*Max: Ecaflip's Tarot (Next 18 Levels)
- Get rid of that pesky God Ouginak Card -> Ecaflip God Card combo that sends you to 1HP -.-;
Besides more Positive cards makes a cat happy, as does the increase of the positive effects of those cards.

*Max Roll Again or Double or Quits (Next 19 Levels)
-You can use Roll again without putting any points into it, if you are just using it for new cards.

*Max Whatever you want from here on
- The rest are utility skills based on playstyle.

---------------------------------------------

I have several Fire Builds as well, but hey, this is an Earth Ecaflip topic =).

Any questions or comments?

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Score : 1534

That's quite helpful Cardioes, thank you for the write up! Now the hard part is choosing one smile

I'd be interested in checking out your ideas for fire builds too (Still unsure of what to do after launch) Maybe you should write a general Ecaflip builds guide biggrin 

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Score : 1543

Flealine Army casts Flea Love when it procs. As in if you don't level the water spell as well you'll be healing for 2. Hardly worth 20 levels.

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Score : 1534
Eraniverse|2012-02-17 18:47:01
Flealine Army casts Flea Love when it procs. As in if you don't level the water spell as well you'll be healing for 2. Hardly worth 20 levels.

Really? Well thats a shame. The passive must only be for hybrids then.
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Score : 1296
Kysska|2012-02-17 19:00:15
Eraniverse|2012-02-17 18:47:01
Flealine Army casts Flea Love when it procs. As in if you don't level the water spell as well you'll be healing for 2. Hardly worth 20 levels.

Really? Well thats a shame. The passive must only be for hybrids then.

Yes, had a mental dump on that part for some reason -.-;

I did add it correctly to my water build though, hehe.
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Score : 4826

Just a tip as well, Double or Quits and weapon damage can activate Flealine Army (at least they did in the closed beta).

It can be surprisingly effective at times to use low AP spells like Kraps and AoN and DoQ each one. You have a significant chance of activating flealine army during your turn and if your lucky you can actually burn all 6 of your WP with Flea Loves on 3 different targets..

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Score : 8

I have been using All In and it is amazing. The dmg with tarot and precision is very stable. At lv 27, my normal dmg each turn is around 60-100 which is quite high tongue.
I max precision and put points into Roll Again until it requires 10 points to level, then go back and start lvling tarot.
One question thou, where do u guys think is a good place to lv at 30+. My dmg is high but hp is only around 300. I use globbal set since it give 1 ap biggrin
Thx

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Score : 348

As much stress you guys have been giving it, Heads or Tails deserves some credit. It may have low average damage for its cost but in God Eca it out damages All In by a mile. Then at the end you can you All or Nothing and accumulate more AP for Head or Tails, if you opt to use All in you have to move away risking lock or Feline Leap

All In has a mediocre God Eca and subpar crit for a measly +5% at 2x damage, a crit in a crit if you will.

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Score : 1052
leviayura|2012-02-18 07:50:31
As much stress you guys have been giving it, Heads or Tails deserves some credit. It may have low average damage for its cost but in God Eca it out damages All In by a mile. Then at the end you can you All or Nothing and accumulate more AP for Head or Tails, if you opt to use All in you have to move away risking lock or Feline Leap

All In has a mediocre God Eca and subpar crit for a measly +5% at 2x damage, a crit in a crit if you will.

All-In also doesn't have an element, so it can't be boosted, I believe.
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Score : 4826

It's earth.

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Score : 920

so say u have 10 ap all in will do 130 dmg + 50% chance to double = average of 130 + 65 = 195 now the problem with that is its a very high base dmg number compared to other skills but i believe its going to play out poorly late game especially on eca its very easy to get crit chance and with winning streak level 10 atm im getting 50% crit rate free every fight so at 10 ap lets say rough tongue x 5 50% crit rate 3x 30 dmg = 90 2 x 45 dmg = 90 + 90 + 7.5( in 2 turns ull get 5 crits and 5 normal hits average)= 187.5 so im an idiot go all in not even OP rough tongue can outdmg it gg rolling earth eca thought all in not benefitting from crit at all at later levels would be a problem OBVIOUSLY NOT! then again with feline leap if used once every level u get +100% dmg so ittl be like using 8x rough tongues 4 x 30 = 120 4 x 45 = 180 = 300 obvious win is win! once again im an idiot because +100% water dmg isnt straight dmg i suppose fail at thoughts on paper ftl

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Score : 4826

Replace that last Rough Tongue with All or Nothing, especially with a 50% crit rate where the spell has the potential to literally give you another free Rough Tongue, and you'll blow that 10 AP All-In out of the water.

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Score : 920

well replacing the last rough tongue with all or nothing would be somewhat pointless so im gonna be pure water ill have no earth% dmg meaning all or nothing will do little to no dmg 50% chance to gain 2 ap back or 50% to end turn so averaged out i would be switching out a rough tongue for a all or nothing every other turn which would decrease dmg if your trying to say with the god ecaflip tarot card i will not be using tarot cards i ratrher go for steady dmg and survivability then a chance to *** my fight up or gain a small dmg boost for one turn i suppose if i did go tarot and got god eca i could use all or nothing at 0 ap cost and maybe gain some extra rough tongues but the chance of that happening for me is not worth getting -3ap half the time and getting knocked down to 1hp every 5 fights

bit off topic sry basically i think the earth tree needs some work you guys can argue luck vs mechanics etc all day but with straight numbers all in is basically allways coming out ahead averaged out in the earth tree even when heads of tails on god eca hits its weaker then all in =/ havent explored the fire tree yet any1 got thoughts on it?

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Score : -39

battle either just does damage or just heals tho heads or tails does consistent damage and its random you cant predict randomess also with god eca its double the damage and you can use it 3 times thats where it really shines at lvl 100 with god eca is will do 44 ta 88 damage 3 times in a row instead and getting god eca isnt hard i can get it llike 5 times in a row if im lucky and i use roll again alot better then battlle also you can easily combo it with that card skill in the earth tree perfect 8 ap build use gd eca get +3 ap so you have 11 use that card skill get + 1 ap then use hot 3 times in a row so your doing 44 ta 88 x 3 + 74 x 1 in 4 attacks thats amazing damageand pair it with dice so you can get 20% crit almost every turn and if you crit your doing amazing damage with 0 heals witch would be hard specially wearing crit gear you esssentially just become a power house with decent range

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Score : 6

Well in regards to Heads or Tails, Battle and All-In, I've done a bit of math.

WITHOUT an Ecaflip card, All-In is statistically the highest damage dealing ability at your disposal. Where things get tricky is when you're in a situation where you can't use all 6 AP for All-In, either because you need to leap out, or are just totally boxed in. Since Ecaflips have a natural affinity for crit, and Battle totally loses the negative aspects when it crits, I decided to look at the break even point (in crit%) for Battle and Head or Tails, which turns out to be approximately 30%. Once you have over 30% crit, you will statistically do more damage with Battle.

WITH an Ecaflip card you need to weigh whether personal survivability is more important in the fight or overall dps. It will always come down to either Battle or Head or Tails. If overall dps is most important, Heads or Tails will always be your go to spell. If personal survivability is the most important aspect and you are NOT on the verge of dying within the next few turns but can benefit entirely from the heal aspect of Battle, it will again come down to crit. Like before, it is 30%, since both abilities are essentially doubled. The way I'm weighing the survivability is by which ability cause the greatest shift in health between your health pool and the enemy's. After all, the best defense is a good offense.

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Score : 4826
Loudmutes|2012-02-21 07:44:05
I decided to look at the break even point (in crit%) for Battle and Head or Tails, which turns out to be approximately 30%. Once you have over 30% crit, you will statistically do more damage with Battle.
I think your math is off.

Even with 100% crit I'm still seeing that All-In beats Battle with 3 AP.

Battle = 50 damage

All in = 39 damage + 30% chance to double
39+39(30/100) = 50.7

and yes, as much as I hate to admit it, the spell needs a nerf ; ;
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Score : 6
SupersunZeratul|2012-02-21 08:08:21
I think your math is off.

Even with 100% crit I'm still seeing that All-In beats Battle with 3 AP.

Battle = 50 damage

All in = 39 damage + 30% chance to double
39+39(30/100) = 50.7

and yes, as much as I hate to admit it, the spell needs a nerf ; ;

I wasn't saying you'd ever use Battle over using All-In. I actually overlooked comparing the two, because I was assuming you'd always use All-In unless you had the God card or unless it was physically impossible to get in position to use it over Battle or Heads or Tails.

That said, you can't simply compare All-In to other abilities assuming you use the same amount of AP. In your hypothetical case, where did the 3 other AP go prior to using All-In? Was it used for Battle? What happens if we use all 6 AP for All-In at the same 100% crit?

78 * 1.5 = 117

See, it gets exponentially more powerful for every AP you pour into it (until it hits the 50% cap).

However, a much more reasonable comparison would be with a 4AP All-In, vs a double Battle at 30% crit, assuming you used Jump to get into position to use All-In.

All-In = 52 * (.3*1.4 +.7*1.2) = 65.52

Battle = 2*(.3*50 + .7*.67*40 - .7*.33*6) = Approx 64.75

(And for completions sake)

Heads or Tails = 2*(.7*((22+44)/2 - 6)+.3*((33+66)/2 - 6)) = 63.9

As you can see, 30% crit becomes something of a middle for what I consider the Earth Eca's two main melee damage spells. And if you need to get out of that melee range, All-In also becomes very comparable, with each of them falling within less than 2 damage of the others.

However, as far as I have tested, using your jump to get into position to use at least a 4AP All-In will ALWAYS yield higher results than using the other two NON-MODIFIED spells.
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Score : 4826

You know what beats x2 Battle at close range though?

All or Nothing.

I'm not even talking about Battle and then All or Nothing.

I'm talking about All or Nothing beating 2x Battle BY ITSELF.

To copy your math for Battle

Battle = 2*(.3*50 + .7*.67*40 - .7*.33*6) = Approx 64.75

All or Nothing
Normal (30+30(50%)+30(25%)+30(12.5%)) = 56.25
Critical 56.25*1.5 = 84.375

So at a 30% Crit rate
(56.25*.7 + 84.375*.3) = 64.6875

So All or Nothing by itself is just under 2x Battle.

Where the extra is made up is through the fact that when All or Nothing criticals it has a chance to give you extra AP.

+0 AP(50%) +1AP(25%) +2AP (12.5%) + 3 AP(6.75%) +4AP(3.375%)

So on average with 100% critical rate All or Nothing will give you 1 AP.

Now since Ecaflips can use 1 extra AP with All-In that means that on average the extra damage a 100% critical All or Nothing gives is 13.65 for a regular hit and 14.3 for a critical hit.

So at a 30% critical rate on average you will receive .3 of an AP with All or Nothing.

All In with 1 AP does on average (13.65*.7 + 14.3*.3) = 13.845

So that means with an average gain of .3 AP with All or Nothing that will add on average (.3*13.845) = 4.1535 damage which gives All or Nothing a total damage of

64.6875 + 4.1535 = 68.841 damage

Yes, JUST All or Nothing with a 30% critical rating can do 68.841 base damage BY ITSELF.

and yes, this spell needs to be brutalized with the nerf bat ; ;

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Score : 6

I'm not sure what lock chances look like later on in the game, but with negligible amounts of dodge on my gear (+5), I float around 60-70% lock chance with a single enemy on me. Obviously it will change based on the monsters or people you're fighting, but you definitely need to take that into account when calculating the extra "bonus" damage you get from a crit with All or Nothing. I'd also like to take a look at each spell beyond just 30% crit, since that is purely a benchmark for HoT and Battle.

Note that sub 30% crit I will be using HoT, above 30% I will use Battle.

Average HoT and Battle:
3% = 27.495
30% = 32.374
50% = 37.41
80% = 44.964
100% = 50

Average AoN supplemented by All-In:
3% = 57.09375 + .028125 AP = 57.3314 Dmg
30% = 64.6875 + .28125 AP = 67.0997 Dmg
50% = 70.3125 + .46875 AP = 74.47148 Dmg
80% = 78.75 + .75 AP = 85.51528 Dmg
100% = 84.375 + .9375 AP = 93.03955 Dmg

The crit values I chose for the spread were not random, just the most common values I have personally seen.

Now, I'd assume you would never lead an attack with AoN, and would instead use the most appropriate between HoT and Battle to lead it, which brings us to the final totals:

3% = 84.8264
30% = 99.4737
50% = 111.88148
80% = 130.47928
100% = 143.03955

I daresay we've found a new way to play our furry friend. Seems like this will average out to far more damage than using All-In at a full 6 AP, with sufficient Crit, and just some very basic math and intuition is pointing it at around 50% crit for this to be the highest Non-God combo. Once you have a God card, HoT is still going to be the best.

But now we have to deal with the God's interaction with AoN, and whether having a high dodge would be worth it to safely and reliably walk out of range to use All-In after x number of AoN (since you can only walk to All-In range twice within a turn, the second time effectively ending your turn with a base 3 MP. This is assuming you're focusing a single target.

But figuring all that out would require some very hefty spread sheet work to do with any meaningful numbers. Something I don' have experience with.

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