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Comprehensive Guide to Sadida’s Mechanism- Regarding Dolls, Voodoll, Heals, Indirect damage (As At 2.8.2022)

By Thothus#6662 - MEMBER - December 21, 2020, 04:55:20
Regarding Dolls
  • Stat inheritance
  • Lone Sadida and dolls
  • Doll Link and dolls
  • Explodoll and dolls
  • Doll Stats
 Voodoll Mechanisms
  • Basics of Voodoll
  • Voodoll as an enemy target
    • Spells against enemy targets
    • Enemy AI
    • Fluctuation
  • Voodoll as a mechanism
    • Voodoll does not have turns
    • Voodoll does not have AP/MP
  • Applying statuses on voodoll
  • Calculating damage based on Secondary Mastery
  • Calculating damage based on Sublimations
  • Class Interaction with Voodoll
    • Ecaflip
    • Eliotrope
    • Eniripsa
    • Enutrof
    • Feca
    • Masqueraider
    • Rogue
    • Sadida
    • Sram
    • Xelor
  • TL;DR with Voodoll

Regarding heals

Regarding Indirect Damage
  • Flaming

Untested Speculation

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Regarding Dolls

Stat inheritance

Dolls do not inherit % heals performed (nor does Coney), but inherits % damage inflicted, dodge, resistance and mastery at the time of summon from the Sadida. This snapshot of the inherited stats persists until the summon is killed even after the buffs wear out on sadida. Bombs, Turrets, Cogs and Sinistroes check the caster's % DI and uses that when the attack occurs.

Lone Sadida and dolls

This means that when you take Lone Sadida and summon dolls, they will be progressively weaker each additional summon. However, Lone Sadida refreshes at the start of your turn, not constantly, so if you Mudoll the UP and have it summon many dolls at the same time before your next turn rather than stagger your summons across turns, your dolls will be equal in strength. It also means that burst stacking buffs (e.g. Salvo from protoflex, drop knight's buffs) for a persistent summoner build (rather than a throwaway summoner build i.e. low control vs high control build) before they summon is beneficial to creating strong summons. I don't have an Osamodas so it would be nice to get some inputs from them as well.

Lone sadida's refresh rate is at the every start of the sadida's turn- your damage and heals won't be weakened until your next turn begins. Conversely, even if you dolly sacrifice your dolls, your damage and heals % won't be regained till the next turn.

Doll link and Dolls
However, Doll Link giving res to the Sadida is an exception to dolls inheriting resistance from Sadida and does not allow you to progressively summon Dolls with stronger and stronger resistance. Want to summon some crazy dolls? Have a Feca Aegis and Truce you before summoning and use doll link, and watch your enemies cry as your UP strugs off damage and your dolls stack nettled until you have 3+ greedy running around all over the place with their 6MP attacking twice.

Explodoll and Dolls
Explodoll now causes direct damage on enemies, though whether the Sadida is the caster or the doll is the caster remains to be seen. If you Dolly sacrifice the UP, all dolls summoner by the UP dies as well, giving you a one turn high increase in damage if you have many on the field by the same UP. The boss archetype that triggers on turn 7 and 13 that kills summons also triggers Explodoll, like how they trigger Dynamited bombs.

RE: Ultra Powerful - the first one does not count towards your control quota, but does lower lone sadida’s benefits when the next turn comes. However, the ultrapowerful is still considered a doll, unlike the voodoll, so the doll buffs (Sadida's Tear, Mudoll, Wild Grass etc) work on it. In order to control 4 dolls using Wild Whispers, you need to summon 2 UPs, which take at least 5 turns and 5 control.

​​

Doll Stats

The Stats of dolls are inherited from the Sadida as follows:

Voodoll:
Max health *0.1
Water res *1 - 50
Earth res*1 - 50
Air res*1 - 50
Fire res*1 - 50
Dodge*0
Lock *0

Ultra Powerful:
Max health *0.35
Earth mastery *1
Water res*1 - 50
Earth res*1 - 50
Air res*1 - 50
Fire res*1 - 50
Dodge*1
Lock *0

The Greedy:
Max health *0.1
Water mastery *1
Water res *1
Earth res*1 - 50
Air res*1 + 50
Fire res*1 - 100
Dodge*1
Lock *0

The Sacrificial Doll:
Max health *0.05
Air mastery*1
Water res *0
Earth res *0
Air res *0
Fire res *0
Dodge *1
Lock *0

The Madoll:
Max health *0.05
Water res*1 - 100
Earth res *1
Air res*1 - 50
Fire res*1 + 50
Dodge *1
Lock *0

The Inflatable:
Max health *0.1
Water Mastery* 1
Water res*1 + 50
Earth res*1 - 50
Air res*1
Fire res*1 - 50
Dodge *1
Lock *0

The Block
Max health *0.2
Water res*1 - 50
Earth res*1 +100
Air res*1 - 100
Fire res*1 - 50
Dodge *0
Lock = Current health of The Block*0.4

Doll damage is NOT affected by indirect damage inflicted. 

All secondary masteries, crit %, block %, healing mastery, crit mastery, berserk mastery and rear mastery are inherited by the dolls. Remember, rear mastery does not boost healing amount.

Voodoll Mechanisms

Basics of Voodoll

The Voodoll is summoned directly in front on you when you have a linear line of sight with the monster you want to link to. It can be interacted with via Gust and Kmir, and a Panda can carry it. With the passive Wild Whispers, the % damage inflicted mentioned in the passive is added to your % DI when you attack through Voodoll, rather than a %multiplier (thanks to Saudade for testing this). For instance:

Attacking a mob normally: 100 damage
Attacking a mob with Carnage passive : 100*(1+10% DI) = 110
Correct calculation
Attacking a mob through Voodoll with Carnage passive with Wild whispers: 100*(1+10% DI from Carnage level 1 + 10% DI from Wild Whispers level 1) =120
Wrong calculation
Attacking a mob through Voodoll with Carnage passive with Wild whispers: 100*(1+10% DI from Carnage level 1) *(10% DI from wild whispers at level 1)  = 121
 
Damage redirected by Voodoll is not considered indirect damage. 

Voodoll as an enemy target

Voodoll is an enemy target (applicable in most cases). Kmir  and gust damage is redirected to enemy and Sadida's Tears will damage enemy through Voodoll without healing Voodoll. Woodland stench will cause Cursed status on voodoll instead of Toxine. A second Voodoll can be linked to the first Voodoll as a result of this enemy target definition, but the second doll will only last the duration of the first, so its staying time is shorter. I don't think there's a class that can give armour to a neutral party, and Feca's wavy glyph requires the target to have its own turn, which the Voodoll doesn't. If anyone manages to find a spell like that, you can protect the Voodoll for those two meagre turns so that it's on the field for more people to whack (tested by courtesy of Samuikaze on Fatt Lenald that armour can be granted to dolls, and while armoured, the armour is not consumed when damage is directed to the mob.) As an aside, bombs are ally targets so they can be healed and armoured.

Enemy AI

The dolls do not target the Voodoll when summoned by an ally Sadida, (even when linked mob is out of range and you use Sadida's Orders).

However, if a Voodoll is summoned by an enemy Sadida, your Dolls (and Ecaflip's bow meow summons) will go after that Voodoll as it it were an enemy target to you (and conversely, the Voodoll you summon is still an enemy target to enemies despite also being an enemy target to you), so you can still use the Voodoll as a decoy to waste enemy AP in PvM).  

However, any ST damage from enemies of the Sadida who casted the Voodoll is not directed to the linked mob, and the Voodoll is hurt instead, so you cannot link a Voodoll to an enemy and hope for them to hurt themselves with single target spells on the Voodoll. Turrets/glyphs/poisons do not hurt the Voodoll as it does not have a turn.

Fluctuation

Fluctuation that you equip does NOT work on Voodoll, even though it is an enemy target. Originally, I thought that this is due to the 0 lock on Voodoll (tested against other normal mobs with  0 lock) - should it dip into the negative or increase to positive as a result of a state, it should be be able to trigger fluctuation for the person with the passive in theory. Testing with a friend (credits to Saudade) using Mass Charm's lock bonus shows that Voodoll has an in-built lock prevention similar to how sack of potatoes has 500 lock but never locks you- you can dodge it freely and it does not trigger fluctuation no matter if its lock is higher than your dodge.

Voodoll as a mechanism

Voodoll does not have turns

The Voodoll is a mechanism, not a summon. It does not count towards your control quota (nor does your first ultra powerful, in fact) nor does it have a turn. This has significance when you try to apply poisons to it. Since it doesn't have turns, nor use AP, light weapon, poisoned wind, sic' em more, panda's poisoned chalice etc doesn't inflict damage if casted on Voodoll. Sic' em more does not turn your Voodoll invisible. It is not a viable Dolly Sacrifice target nor does it grant doll link passive resistance or cause damage from Explodoll when it dies. On the plus side it doesn't reduce damage and heal from lone sadida passive either. 

Voodoll does not have AP/MP

It cannot be rooted via wild grass, given MP and armour by fertilizer, nor given AP by mudoll as it is not a doll. MP cannot be stolen away via Fertilizer through Voodoll neither from the linked monster nor Voodoll, nor can a Xelor grant AP to it or remove its or the linked monster's AP via the Voodoll. The unlockable third bar spell Fertilizer is not able to grant armour to the Voodoll, and the -150 ele res is not passed to the linked monster. Huppers can steal the Voodoll's mastery while causing damage to the linked monster though.

Speaking of -res, the -res cap is -200 on one target, so if you sudden chilled and fertilizered the enemy once, don't waste AP on a second Sudden Chill! Nor if your allies have already reduced the enemy's resistance somewhat.

Applying statuses on voodoll

States are applied on Voodoll instead of the enemy. Sudden Chill applied on Voodoll will not increase damage redirected by Voodoll even though it reduces the resistance of Voodoll, nor does it confer the resistance reduction to the monster. Cursed applied on Voodoll will cause Cursed damage to enemy through healing skills like mudoll casted on the Voodoll.


Calculating damage based on Secondary Mastery

Both orientation and distance is checked based on the attacker's position relative to the monster's position, not the Voodoll's position relative to the monster nor the caster. Also, unlike the Voodolls, dolls DO check based on the doll's position to the monster's position, so melee mastery on Sadida is more useful to boost doll damage/heals in general, unless you control your Greedys and Inflatables to target at 3 cells. Earthquake is a spell casted by the Sadida, not the Doll, with zone around the Sadida and the Dolls, so the damage is based on the Sadida's position from the enemy, not the Doll's).

This has some significance for things like Wield type: dagger, Masq passives, and distance damagers, where the monster may have its LoS blocked from the rear but the Voodoll doesn't, allowing you to whack the Voodoll for rear damage against the linked mob.

Melee types will not be able to use their melee mastery when targetting the nearby Voodoll if the monster is far away, while distance types won't suffer a loss of damage even while next to the doll if the monster is far away. The orientation of the doll does not matter.

Calculating damage based on Sublimations

Smashshell allows you to reduce the armour of the linked monster through Voodoll (thanks to Trizura for discovering this).

Length will trigger if you are aligned with the Voodoll or the monster, but it won't stack twice if you are aligned with both the linked mob and the voodoll.

Space Control will trigger for boosted damage against the linked monster if you attack at the appropriate distance from the Voodoll, but not if you attack the Voodoll at the inappropriate distance but is at the appropriate distance from the mob.

tl;dr: Sublimations interact with the Voodoll as if the Voodoll were the monster itself.


Class Interaction with Voodoll

Ecaflip

You can use Head or Tails on the Voodoll to damage the linked mob without healing it- for extra damage you can Woodland Stench the Voodoll first and the heal part will cause damage to the linked mob from Cursed as well.

Eniripsa

Marks can be applied on the Voodoll (area ones too if they don‘t kill the Voodoll from the damage) and interact as marks do on normal enemies. Hammle mark applied on enemies can cause area damage around the linked enemy when the ST attack is given through Voodoll, but Voodoll cannot have Hammle mark applied on it. 

Enutrof and Osamodas

Enutrof's Cutting does not cause 4 times damage to a normal mob when redirected by Voodoll, nor does Osamodas's Whip. If the linked target is a summon, attacking via voodoll with those spells still work. Remember- states do not transfer to linked mobs, so you can't Broke a voodoll to get pouches safely either.

Feca

Armodiction can be stacked on the linked mob through Voodoll. It seems the state is stacked on an enemy that receives damage, not on the selected target of the attack, so the state is applied on the linked mob and you can gain armour henceforth by whacking the mob. Re: Staff buff- while damage inflicted is inherited by the UP from Sadida, the close combat damage inflicted boost is NOT inherited. The Voodoll count as an enemy target for maintaining Staff buff, and as an enemy counting towards Rampart's Shield and Flaming provision. You may use Natural Attack to give a small boost to the dodge of the dolls that the Sadida will summon. 

Foggernaut

Blockade from fogger does NOT protect Voodoll from enemies as it is considered an enemy target. Micro-rails work for summoned controlled dolls to use.

Masqueraider

There is a combo that lets you generate tonnes of plink damage through the masq passive Violent Pushes and Regenerating Collisions: Chain 2 Voodolls together, use woodland stench on the doll of the other side of the masq and push the squashed middle Voodoll to do 3 damage sources to the enemy- 1, the original ST spell redirected to mob, 2, the Violent Push damage, 3, the heal from the Regenerating collision on doll 3 triggering the woodland stench's Cursed poison.


Rogue

Detonation targeting Voodoll (ST detonation) can be used to damage the linked monster, both using boombot and rogue's detonation. Rogue's Life steal works as normal, both the heal and damage part without hurting the Voodoll.

Sadida

When an ally Sadida uses their UP's Control on your dolls, YOU get to control your dolls on that controlled doll's turn. When Sadida's Orders from one UP is applied on an ally or enemy, all ally dolls in battle from any Sadida will seek them out as targets. You can only apply a maximum of 1 order on an ally and 1 order on an enemy together, any further orders will overwrite the last. (courtesy of Saudade). However, The transparent buff from Sic' Em More will only affect the dolls you summoned, not all dolls on the field.

When ally Sadida targets your dolls, your dolls are treated as ally targets only, not doll targets- i.e. an ally sadida cannot buff your doll with Nettled, MP, AP, reduced damage or Rooted, nor can they dolly sacrifice your dolls. Green Guard only increases your own doll's nettled, not your ally's dolls. 

Sram

Fog trap from Sram is ST and will transfer damage to linked monster when you gust the Voodoll onto the trap.

Xelor

You can use the Voodoll as an extra target for spells with limited cast per target per turn. As per patch 1.76, Hammhour no longer transfer any additional hits to the Voodoll's target, so you're doing poor spell damage/AP by casting Hammhour repeatedly (though it does still let you bypass the target limit per turn)


TL;DR with Voodoll
I can't be extensive with all possibilities from different classes, but here are some lt;dr that will help you judge how voodoll works:

States are applied on voodoll and not transferred to the linked monster
The mastery and res of the voodoll and dodge and lock can be altered, but not its AP, MP, or WP. 
AoE damage from allies and all enemy attacks will damage the doll
The Voodoll is treated as an enemy target, except by AI
The Voodoll is a mechanism, not a summon
Orientation and distance is checked based on the attacker's position relative to the monster's position, not the Voodolls, except for sublimation cases


Regarding heals

For some reason Drain heals neither the Voodoll nor the casting sadida so you can't place the Voodoll next to the enemy and Drain the enemy directly nor Drain the Voodoll in hopes of hurting the linked enemy while healing Voodoll to cause Cursed poison damage (on second thoughts this is probably because the Voodoll is considered an enemy target and drain doesn't heal enemies). This applies to both the Drain from the original sadida that casted the Voodoll or ally sadidas that try to heal the voodoll using Drain. Other AoE heals like rust can heal the Voodoll normally to cause Cursed poison damage on the linked monster. Remember that the Voodoll is an enemy target so Toxine cannot be applied on it, nor can be healed via Tears and Rust by direct targeting.

Just as an aside, after testing, it seems that the AoE heal from Drain IS affected by area mastery- this means that an ST/Distance Sadida's self heal is best achieved through the Inflatable, as mudoll and tree and dolly sacrifice self heal uses melee, Woodland Stench cannot be self targeted, and Rust and Drain uses area mastery.

I.e. heal amount on self is determined by:

Melee mastery: Tree, Dolly Sacrifice, Mudoll, as well as Inflatable, from melee distance of Sadida
Distance mastery: Inflatable
Area mastery: Rust, Drain
Single target mastery: basically all heal spells the Sadida can apply on himself except Rust

Dolls inherit your % damage inflicted upon summon as I have mentioned, but not your % heals performed. This means that the Inflatable's heals do not benefit from Secret of Life sublimation, nor passives, like Lone Sadida. Nevertheless, increasing the Sadida's water mastery, such as through drop knight, protoflex or skale before summoning the doll can help increase the amount it heals. Also, % heals performed does affect self heals casted by Sadida, so no good taking self healing spells like Mudoll as a tank who uses Rock- use your dolls instead! 

Light Weapon, Poisoned Wind, Sic'Em More, Woodland Stench all do indirect damage and pierce armour and are boosted by Venomous. Cursed from Woodland Stench in particular, when triggered can still do indirect damage even if the Cursed state is on Voodoll. 

Flaming

All sources I've consulted says that Flaming is indirect damage. Nevertheless, it does not pierce armour. Flaming when applied by allies on the Sadida is now boosted by Venomous. On the other hand, Flame Aura is used by a melee Sadida to great effect with Ruin and Venomous. Flaming causes AoE damage on the 4 cells surrounding the Sadida. I believe there is an additional damage triggered if the monster dies, around the 8 cells of the monster? Not sure how the explosion works.

Flaming damage does not pass to the linked monster via Voodoll during the turn of trigger of flaming of an Ally entity next to the Voodoll, nor does it damage the Voodoll. 

Conclusion
Feel free to contribute more discoveries of your own. I'm thinking the Voodoll would be a good way to test the different types of weird damage from different spells and whether or not they are affected by secondary masteries.

Untested Speculation
You can stack riddled on Voodoll for boosted damage to the linked monster
Prey boosts damage to linked monster if casted on voodoll and vodoll is attacked by the Ougi. 
Ambush, ambush II, brutality, wield type dagger, Fury II will trigger when you are at the appropriate position from the Voodoll rather than from the linked mob
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I love marking the Voodoll with my Eniripsa. Sadistic Mark is my favorite because it heals the Sadida so much without needing to kill an actual enemy. It seems like the game considers Sadida as the one who killed the doll after it gets unsummoned on T2 so the heal is redirected to them. Great combo for survability and buffing the team APs and WPs.

Also, marking the Voodoll triggers Massacuring Mark. Just summon it right in front of a group of enemies, mark it and then spam AoE spells to kill it and trigger the explosion, it will kill almost any group of enemies.

Nice data!

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Updated with interactions with different classes.

Updated with some interactions with sublimations.

Updated in light of the xelor revamp and indirect damage fixes.

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how healing mastery and crit affect dolls ?

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both are inherited by dolls, updated the guide.

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first of all, thank you for this amazing guide! it really helped me build my sadida correctly as I plan to use dolls frequently. I did have a question regarding the spell earthquake however. In you post you mention the following: "Also, unlike the Voodolls, dolls DO check based on the doll's position to the monster's position, so melee mastery on Sadida is more useful to boost doll damage in general)." Does this mean that if I stat into melee mastery the earthquake spell would benefit assuming I am not close to my dolls or the enemy but my dolls have the enemy surrounded? The earthquake spell triggers both around the caster (me) and around my dolls. So would my doll's melee stats be taking into account when earthquake is casted from them? 

Any input would help. Thanks again!

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EDIT: tested, because earthquake is a spell casted by the Sadida, and not the doll (all dolls have their own spell decks and AI to use them), the damage will be based on the position between the sadida and the enemy, making AoE mastery work better than Melee for Earthquake.

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Hello i'm a new player trying Sadida for the first time, still learning about the skill tree (and pretty much everything) this guide was super-helpfull.

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I couldn't cast twice the voodoll (2 turns of cd), neither have another sadida casting another voodoll(1 voodoll on the field) then it's impossible to do that combo with Masqueraider or i'm missing something here, tho i think it was possible before, but then got nerfed.
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The double voodoll scenario I mention requires 2 sadidas. 

The first sadida should face the enemy and cast the first voodoll. The second sadida should face the first voodoll to cast the second voodoll, instead of having both sadidas trying to link their voodoll to the enemy.

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Updated Content:

Flaming now does AoE and properly uses the Flaming user's stats and buffs, so Flaming applied onto the Sadida by other players benefit from Venomous. Although Flaming is AoE, neither flaming from enemies nor allies will hurt the Voodoll. Flaming still does not pierce armour as of 1.76

The doll AI seems to have been changed. Greedies and Inflatables now no longer go after the Voodoll even after being Ordered by the UP. You'll have to control them manually.

Single target mastery is confirmed to boost self heals

Added interaction of Voodoll as viable enemy for Rampart and Staff

Whipkick no longer bugs as an exploit for boosted damage

The Pacification exploit that stacks on top of Lone Sadida is properly fixed and no longer works.

 

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