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Improve the skill system.

By Azurayin - MEMBER - June 23, 2011, 22:58:22

Hello everyone,

I'm quite new to Wakfu, although I've been here since the early notification about CBT.
I haven't participated in the CBT, but I recently joined OBT. After getting familiar with about 4 classes ( all went up lvl 40+ ), and going through the skill system change,
I came up with an idea ( that's, in my opinion, much versatile and unique ) to improve our characters builds.

What we have now, and what we received last patch, was the split system (for abilities and support spells).
It was a good movement from Ankama. However, as many pointed out, the flaw was in the ammount of skill points needed to improve one or two support spells,
and the gap in levels between achieving them. I must say that Ankama is going in a good direction, but making big mistakes along the way, that affect us, future customers.

At the moment, we have 15 skills divided into 3 elements and 10 support skills. From what I read it's not enough for 200 lvls as we assume that it will be the level gap.
15 skills sounds reasonable, but 10 support spells that gives us the possibility to make our char interesting and unique from others is not enough.
After gathering a bit of information and feedback from recent topics, this is what I came up with.
Leave the current 5 skills per element as they are (also they way we lvl them up), but add to each branch 5 support skills, thus, giving us a total of 30 skills.
You will not be able to level all 15 support skills, however. The limit would be 6. ( however at first I thought of giving us the possibility to choose 6 out of 15, no matter the element )
For example, you decide to be a Fire Iop. You have your 5 fire skills and 5 support skills linked to that element..
The moment you choose to level which ever skill from this support skills, other support skills would be blocked.
You would have the possibility to choose only 1 more support skill from the remaining elements.
So the Fire Iop with 5 fire support skills can either pick 1 air or earth skill, which ever would suit him more. Altho he still can use Air/Earth atk skills.

What would that give? 3 types of Iops, with a number of different abilities.
Not only you have an opportunity to have a totally different char than another iop ( even if both were fire based, they still would differ by this 1 support skill ),
but also it would give you the feeling of progress, that we all seek.
Now what about the leveling of those support spells? I thought that every support skill would be easily maxed every 30 to 35 levels.
You could either level one support skill till it's maxed, then start another one, or choose to level each of them slowly, but steadily.

There was also a suggestion to delete AP and MP from abilities, and add them as separate bonus at lvl 80-160.
I think it's not a bad idea, tho it would need a deeper thought, at which level the bonus should be placed.

Any feedback (positive and/or negative) will be appreciated. Although I have no idea if this will go anywhere further, I just thought of sharing this with the community.
We are here not to bash down ideas, but to find the best points and improve our current skill system.

Cheers.

EDIT: After a short talk with my fiancee about her Cra skills affected by this skill system, I gave her a suggestion about skills.
For example,
Fire Cra as one of his support spells would have "Unbeacon", which would add him increase in dmg and burn effect for his next atk.
Air Cra would have "Destroy beacon", which would, after destruction, push enemies back.
Earth Cra would have a skill similar with name to "destroy beacon", but the effect of it would damage and have a chance to stun enemies.

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Score : 259

I like. Seriously some good thoughts.

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Score : 8828

Sorry... Look at a class other than Iop or Cra, e.g. Eni or Sacrier. Both these classes are heavily encouraged to hybrid multiple elements (Eni by having heals limited to Water only, and no attacks in Water. Sacrier needing Fire to gain Angrrr, while only Earth can spend it). The idea that they should pick a single element and stick with it would require a 4th redo of those classes. A class like Sadida revolves around their support spells (Doll or Voodoo), with the elemental spells being mostly to do with supporting those effects, etc.

At the same time, limiting people to one element would take away the choice of doing something that the Devs haven't predicted (and with the way they act... they can't even predict what a strawberry will taste like).

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Score : 496

The current system and way of ankama thinking is just bad.
They are giving us 15 elemental attack skills ,5 for each element.
They even make them combo between each other elements ,though they give us no real and profitable gear in game that support hybrid builds of even just two elements.
On start this gear exist (tofu air+water ,gob earth +fire) ,though the higher the lvl the more one-element gear ur char becomes.

There could be a support spell list ,but you can pick only ONE of those skills.
It would link your +x% damage of one type from gear to other in some % like 50%.
So you could for example play cra and use fire to air resulting in having 200% fire dmg (where 100% is from gear) and giving from it +50% air dmg (half of the fire gear bonus).
That would allow us to build chars in hybrid way actualy linking elements and making them combo.

To be honest using just 5 skills in 200lvls of gameplay time is joke. So either make hybrids possible to atualy use around 10 skills for whole gameplay or add more skills to database ,like 5 bonus per each element.

Most mmorpgs each class and each of their sub-branch class got around 40 skills and we are stuck with 5?? Thats a joke in an rpg style game.

After that you can add tons of specialization skills ,making some existing weaker though costing much less ,with would result in uping more skills and feeling actualy some development of character when lvling. Currently you feel it each 30lvls with is to big gap as mentioned by people.
There is easy way to add tons of specialization skills without bigger effort of thinking if you already made the 10 skill of each element.

Simpe system that might work:
1) You got 10 skills in each element
2) Each skill got upgrade boost for it in specialization branch ,might have multiple upgrades
3) You are limited with skillpoints like now ,though u can pick more skills than now ,but not to many

Example for fire cra:
1)Explosion Arrow specializations:
* explosion : upgrade explosion damage and chance to accour
* nuke : increase size of aoe of explosion (not the arrow main hit just the additional effect)
2)Burning Arrow specializations:
* burn time : incrase burn duration by 1 round (if you succes to proc the burn)
* burning trait : burning arrow leaves a trait on the 3 cells it has hit dealing 50% of its dmg in next round
3)Blazing Arrow specializations:
* range : increase base range of spell by 1 cell
* burn : increase burn chance and dmg
4)Fire Beacon specializations:
* full dmg: reduce the HP of beacon by half ,but incrase base dmg by 20%
* destruction : when unbeaconing cause explosion effect

If you had 10 spells in each branch you can make tons of specialization skils like that ,you would really feel character development if you had like 10-20 skill for each branch plus maybe the current 10 ones.

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Score : 1355
GoldfishGod|2011-06-23 23:56:54
Sorry... Look at a class other than Iop or Cra, e.g. Eni or Sacrier. Both these classes are heavily encouraged to hybrid multiple elements (Eni by having heals limited to Water only, and no attacks in Water. Sacrier needing Fire to gain Angrrr, while only Earth can spend it). The idea that they should pick a single element and stick with it would require a 4th redo of those classes. A class like Sadida revolves around their support spells (Doll or Voodoo), with the elemental spells being mostly to do with supporting those effects, etc.

At the same time, limiting people to one element would take away the choice of doing something that the Devs haven't predicted (and with the way they act... they can't even predict what a strawberry will taste like).
The bold part indicates that you don't know the supportive skills of Eniripsa. One of the support skills is "zombification" (sp) which allows you to deal damage to your enemies by using your healing skills.
Sac could focus on leveling Fire support skills to increase his Arghh per round or any other bonus, while still dealing a decent dmg with Earth. Or the opposite, he could improve his Earth damage but suffer in slower Arghh accumulation.
Same as Sadida. They can improve the power of their Dolls, such as atk/durability/flexibility/special statuses they can cast, or, focus more on AoE damage with just a minor suppor of dolls ( as a filler ). Although, as you might have noticed, at the moment Sadidas dolls are linked to an element. Different element, different doll summoned. With more variety of skills to choose from, it would create more combinations and tweaks.

A redo would be necessary. However with all what's been said, it's clear to me that our current number of skills we were given is simply not enough.
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Score : 8828
Azurayin|2011-06-24 00:27:31
The bold part indicates that you don't know the supportive skills of Eniripsa. One of the support skills is "zombification" (sp) which allows you to deal damage to your enemies by using your healing skills.
I'm fully aware of the apparent benefit of Zombification, but the limited duration and cost hardly makes it a functional damage utility in the long term. At the same time, an Eni who chose Air or Fire would find themselves drastically "less popular" in parties (a common problem in MMOs with a "main healer" class).

There are 2 core issues here, which Ankama seem resolutely stubborn about.

A. An uneeded legacy from Dofus, the 200 max level is an abomination, given that even Dofus does not have "full content" for players across the 200 levels, that it effects PvP's balance (or at least the ease of balancing it), amongst other issues. Ankama's solution seems to be, rather than shrink the levels to match their content, to stretch the rest of the game to fit it. This leaves us with the new system, where 1 level of a spell can take a relatively huge amount of character levels to pay for.

B. The other is Wakfu will use a basic "learn-by-doing" (this in turn lead us to the 15 elemental attack spells, with such limited variety, or mass repetition)
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Score : 1393

i understand the logic, but just because people dont want to be pushed into hybridisation, some people want to actually be hybrids, this method would heavily restrict that.

If anything the skill system needs opening up, not making stricter.

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Score : 610
GoldfishGod|2011-06-24 00:45:31
Azurayin|2011-06-24 00:27:31
The bold part indicates that you don't know the supportive skills of Eniripsa. One of the support skills is "zombification" (sp) which allows you to deal damage to your enemies by using your healing skills.
I'm fully aware of the apparent benefit of Zombification, but the limited duration and cost hardly makes it a functional damage utility in the long term. At the same time, an Eni who chose Air or Fire would find themselves drastically "less popular" in parties (a common problem in MMOs with a "main healer" class).

There are 2 core issues here, which Ankama seem resolutely stubborn about.

A. An uneeded legacy from Dofus, the 200 max level is an abomination, given that even Dofus does not have "full content" for players across the 200 levels, that it effects PvP's balance (or at least the ease of balancing it), amongst other issues. Ankama's solution seems to be, rather than shrink the levels to match their content, to stretch the rest of the game to fit it. This leaves us with the new system, where 1 level of a spell can take a relatively huge amount of character levels to pay for.

B. The other is Wakfu will use a basic "learn-by-doing" (this in turn lead us to the 15 elemental attack spells, with such limited variety, or mass repetition)

I totally agree with your opinion on 200 lvl cap. It should be definitely lowered, say, to lvl 100, at least. I think level 70-80 cap would be perfect.
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Score : 749

I liked your ideas, but I don't think that's enough. Seriously.
In another topic I also suggested to have 5 support skills for each branch. But I think I didn't understand one thing at the time.

Level 200 cap, isn't really a joke. I would love if the game cap was 400.
Yeah this is my dream! But hey... A dream is a dream, right? We should stick with reality.
And the reality is shit! sad
Having a lvl 200 cap requires a lot of skills. A lot of dungeons. A lot of quests. Skills. A lot of monsters. A lot of maps. Skills. A lot of equipments. A lot of mini-games. And.... a lot of skills.
Okay, it doesn't need to have a lot of skills, but having a level 20 character with the same skills then a level 200 character is kinda sad.
Nowadays, Wakfu isn't ready to have a level 200 cap, since the strongest mob is at level 100. But IF they manage to do it, to create a lot of monsters, equipments, dungeons and maps... (Like Ragnarok did.) Wonderful! And when this day comes I will say: "Wakfu is one of the best MMORPGs I've ever played!"

If they ain't capable of doing all this content. The they should lower the cap.

I believe it would be better if we have like... 10 skills and 5 support skills per branch. With equipments that support a hybrid build and a system that let the skill up more easily.
The system would stay the same. Ability Points and Skill Points. But we would add 15 elemental skills and 5 support skills. And obviously revise their costs and strength.

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Score : 8828
TheCharmingImp|2011-06-24 01:40:08
If they ain't capable of doing all this content. The they should lower the cap.
If I remember correctly, even Dofus started off with a 100 max cap (if not lower), so I really have no idea why they think they can immediately populate a 200-cap game. Most MMOs take the approach of gradually raising their level.

All it means is bigger numbers, not diversity (i.e. a "vertical" progression not a "wider" progression).
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Score : 496
GoldfishGod|2011-06-24 01:48:48
TheCharmingImp|2011-06-24 01:40:08
If they ain't capable of doing all this content. The they should lower the cap.
If I remember correctly, even Dofus started off with a 100 max cap (if not lower), so I really have no idea why they think they can immediately populate a 200-cap game. Most MMOs take the approach of gradually raising their level.

All it means is bigger numbers, not diversity (i.e. a "vertical" progression not a "wider" progression).
The problem isnt cap itself.
Because higher lvl cap is just adding more maps with you can actualy make rapidly after you already did the character balancing and development process.\
In wakfu even more rapidly thanks to practicaly no quest system in the game.

Though wakfu character development is to poor for 40lvl characters.
You basicaly got all skills unlocked till 20lvl with is just joke ,repeating it till liek 60lvl is fun ,but later you already get bored of all the same actions in fights and stuff like that.

I really would like to see like i wrote before ,possible modifications of current spells making them unique comparing to other players ,but also possiblity to make useless spell at some tactic to wery usefull one in it.

I saw similar system in other games ,first one that come to my mind is Mythos and even as i know Diablo 3 will use similar system.
But since mythos is already releasd i will use it as example.

You get there for example spell that summon meteor (dont remember it exactly but will try my best).
At core (withotu any additions) it just do aoe dmg on impact.
But you got few upgrades to it ,one for example add effect that leave fire on the place of impact buring everything standing on it over time.
Other addition to it was some sharpnels or how to call it ,when the spell impact it release fragments dmging random nearby small areas.

Basicaly with system like that you can upgrade spell alot ,making it totally different spell than before. Its wery cool system in developing your character ,maybe hard to make and time consuming ,but for sure better than current wakfu one.
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Score : 50
for me the game must be like the anime! are it will be like yogiho anime/TCG,you see a card in the tv show you like: WOW AWESOME I GOT TO GET THAT!! when you get the card in you hand you like: WHAT!! this card is so bad :C

like the iop in the anime he got hand&hand combat, elemental spells and weapon tekniks
i tink we must have 3 branch system so we can choose are spell(not branch)
or.......the branch system must gave you effect in combat.....a dont know how to explane it,is like the system use in world of warcraft and leagues of legend you guys know inproving you spells and stuff happy

i realy won the game to be as good or greater than dofus,dofus spells lv system is good from lv 1-100 you go one element from lv 100~200 upgreat you or just go another element and have fun,and the damage improve @ you lv not like wakfu just lv 1 spell and go beat every body -.-

what i won is make the game like the anime and i realy won another way to lv up use my spell without get boring at only lv 17( yes my max lv in this game is 20 :C ) but i realy think use the same system like WoW and LoL-ish will work.

(hope i you guys can understand my grammer and what I mean tongue)
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Score : 788
Herflik|2011-06-24 23:03:06
GoldfishGod|2011-06-24 01:48:48

I really would like to see like i wrote before ,possible modifications of current spells making them unique comparing to other players ,but also possiblity to make useless spell at some tactic to wery usefull one in it.

I saw similar system in other games ,first one that come to my mind is Mythos

You get there for example spell that summon meteor (dont remember it exactly but will try my best).
At core (withotu any additions) it just do aoe dmg on impact.
But you got few upgrades to it ,one for example add effect that leave fire on the place of impact buring everything standing on it over time.
Other addition to it was some sharpnels or how to call it ,when the spell impact it release fragments dmging random nearby small areas.

Basicaly with system like that you can upgrade spell alot ,making it totally different spell than before. Its wery cool system in developing your character ,maybe hard to make and time consuming ,but for sure better than current wakfu one.
I wouldn't mind a system like this. more diversity the better. The only problem is how to balance all these modifications in pvp.
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