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Stasis ladder problem and suggestions to improve

By Growlurg#6792 - MEMBER - November 01, 2021, 11:48:28

- In my opinion, the ladder reward system needs to be redone/improved/fixed.
- the problem is - spamming the ladder with characters.


- UB dungeons are the most problematic, because chests for them give more chances for sublimation drops.
And some players with goals to get as many sublimations as possible fill the ladder with multiple teams.
- This makes hard or imposible for other players from obtaining valuable sublim's.

the goal should be to add more players the chance to get magic runes.

One of the my ideas:
  • rename sublimations to Magic runes or something (why scrolls use same name?)
  • add account to the ladder not characters
  • remove reward chests
  • add ladder tokens (or some type of currency) [each tear?] as a reward - quantity depends on performance (stasis, total turns, boss turns, UB or not)
  • everyone in the ladder gets a reward
  • new sublimation machine (like in astrub tavern) [for each tear level a machine with runes]
  • * tokens can be used to buy (select what you want) or roll (random) magic runes (devs choose)
  • make magic runes linked
  • This gives players a goal to complete dungeons and as many as possible, because more different dungeons you do > more runes (or chances) you get  (not just by spamming a few)

* buying - price depends on the rune power
   rolling - different options - depending on a roll price - different % rune drop rate

I think this gives a chance to all players to use runes, removes kama barrier and frustration of kicking from the ladder

share your suggestions or do you like my idea
33 0
Reactions 34
Score : 67

The problem is in unlinked gear pieces
I play with 18 different characters, but each have his own gear
this dude have only 6 BIS gears but a lot of characters (same class/stats/etc, literally clones)
there are only 2 solutions:
1. The bad one. Forbid to use more than 6 characters in ladder per IP (that will ruin all experience to people like me, who want to play different classes)
2. The good one. Give a prizes to all. Remove dependence of how many turns it takes and count only stasis.
3. The weird one. Link an item to an account when you put a sublimation on it (or when you start a fight with sublimated item on you). 

3 -1
Score : 3827

The change should be without punishment for pepole who invested in their characters (buying character slots, time spend for leveling, class change). I think its ok to have a abilty to get loot from UB with multiple teams.
I see the problem in sublimation accessibility. Everyone should have a chance or access (Rewards recieve everyone who competed in dungeon). 
Performance based (difficulty, speed) rewards are more fun, atleast for me. Depending how you performed, you get something (tokens, craft mats etc.) to exchange later for sublimations.

5 -1
Score : 2988

Stasis ladder, as litmus paper, also shows the problem of class abuse.
Looking at the screen, I see only sacriers. 
I do not understand why the developers are taking so long to solve this problem.
the inability to win rewards when a couple of people are obviously abusing the system leads to disappointment and then to leaving the game.
Why should I play a game where I can't get a epic/relic rune to progress? of course, there are other ways, but this does not reduce the scale of the problem when a couple of people get a lot of runes and become very rich, preventing other people from earning kama too.
linked epic/relic good idea. 
dev should also limit those teams that use the same classes in the team (for example, 5 sacriers) or to solve the question of why people abuse one class through serious balancing of this class.
50 stasis 1 turn boss with 5 sacriers SOUNDS VERY BALANCED <_<
I like the idea of tokens and random runes, as well as limiting the reward per account by IP.
 

8 0
Score : 787

its happening for months now, for a new player it looks like the game is imbalanced and abandoned, and as it goes for months and months, looks (for me as a veteran player as well) like the staff doesn't even bother with the community.

I've been running around talking to people, and many of my friends that liked to go and play the game competitively, ranking and all, creating strategies and all, are all disistimulated to play and some even stopped playing, because you cant compete with one-person-army with a lot o free time and kamas, I wonder how it looks life for new players. This kind of neglect of the staff damages the game's reputation.

i dont criticize and crucify the 5 sacs strategy, as it actually is a strategy, the problem is to recognize this kind of strategy as "the best", just for the sake of getting there first. 

12 0
Score : 3827

 

very balanced  at 80 level = 197 base damage  ohmy

its 78 base damage
1 0
Score : 3001

You just have to be better. If that dude occupied the entire ladder in 1 turn, then be better than him and do it in 0 turns, or be faster than him in time and do it in the first minute of the new day of the new month, lol. But this actually shows the class imbalance well.

Just have 6 good sets of gear, a couple of high level heroes (or friends) and a lot of free time and that way you can take over the whole ladder places. Just make groups of alts. Kamasellers really approve of this.

But seriously, the stasis system was last updated in 2018. Since then, the game has seen a lot of class and gear changes, and sublimations have been added. Therefore, revamping is definitely necessary.

10 0
Score : 4628

I do think that rewars based on how mayn turns it took is a bit silly as fights usually get harder the longer you take anyway (at least in boss fights), but on the other hand if we remove that, then it's even more first come-first serve then now.

2 0
Score : 67

The reward should only be based on stasis, not on how long the fight lasted or who came first.

3 0
Score : 787
Thanks all you guys for each of your suggestions and comments on the topic, its great to see that more people out of are aware and preoccupied with the issue

Spoiler (click here to show spoiler)

i've ben censored in my topic for breaking the Forums rules, and for that, we can infer that Staff is reading it and is aware of this problem. XD

So, i've got a cup of tea too; firstly i would like to apologise for any mispelled words or semantics, as english is not my native lenguage:
  • It makes no sense, in a very complex game with 18 classes that can each function as 3 different roles in a party, turn-based/comes-first-takes-it-all reward be the only method of qualifying the hability of the party.
 
TheOktopy1#3328|2021-11-01 16:49:52
Performance based on speed is a bit senseless, because all classes can not be equal, so, some parties will kill boss a bit longer then others. [...]

 
  • There are several classes that literally can't compete in damage per time, for example, an ecaflip fully geared cannot hit as much as a ouginak; or even the old sacrier here could be exemplified, as it just couldn't compete in time in PvE, not because it was weak, but because it took too long to power up, and for that, never saw the ranks in the Dungeon Ranks Pages
  • Why low time and low turn-based strategies are better?
  • [*]All-in strategies really do work, but it takes absurd precision to make, if the game is to recognize these strategies as the best, why would it even bother creating and developing support/healer/tank classes.

    There could be points for everything in the rank system, as such an ELO-rating system (the chess ranking-system),  a Performance-system as a whole, that could punctuate each and every aspect of the fight:
 
  • [*]Character diversity
    turns taken
    damage per turn
    players Knocked Out
    AP spent/passed not-spent
    turns ended by time and not by pressing the pass button
    buffs applied
    debuffs applied
    debuffs taken
    hits taken
    hits given
    attacks missplayed
    critical hits
    attacks blocked
    most damage hit
    archetype respected in stasis turns or not
    challanges completed and so on.

    Those are just examples that i thought while was writing my post, but i know each of you know even more ways to play the game.

Wakfu is a rather impressively complex game for it to put merit on brute all-in damage only, and not by playing the game as a whole.
13 0
Score : 147
  • [Português]
    • O interessante é que esse abuso ocorre a alguns meses e não houve nenhum pronunciamento dos moderadores ou devs do jogo.
    • Minha sugestão seria limitar as recompensas por endereço de IP, assim como é feito nos campos de batalha afim de solucionar problemas de free-kill.
    • Outra sugestão é adicionar um sistema de pontuação de fair-play, onde por parte dos moderadores poderiam punir esses jogadores que abusam do jogo das mais diferentes formas, isto é, ao cometer essas condutas anti-jogo tomariam punições de não poder entrar em determinados calabouços, baixar taxa de sabedoria, prospecção ou qualquer outra coisa, vai da criatividade de vocês.
  • [English]
    • Interestingly, this abuse has been going on for a few months and there has been no comment from game moderators or devs.
    • My suggestion would be to limit rewards per IP address, as is done on battlefields in order to solve free-kill issues.
    • Another follow-up is to add a fair-play scoring system, where moderators could punish those players who abuse the game in different ways, that is, when committing these anti-gaming behaviors, they would take punishments for not being able to enter certain dungeons , lower rate of wisdom, prospecting or anything else, it's up to your creativity.
  • [Español]
    • Curiosamente, este abuso ha estado ocurriendo durante algunos meses y no ha habido comentarios de los moderadores o desarrolladores del juego.
    • Mi sugerencia sería limitar las recompensas por dirección IP, como se hace en los campos de batalla para resolver problemas de muerte libre.
    • Otro seguimiento es agregar un sistema de puntuación de juego limpio, donde los moderadores podrían castigar a aquellos jugadores que abusen del juego de diferentes formas, es decir, al cometer estas conductas anti-juego, recibirían castigos por no poder ingresar a ciertas mazmorras, menor índice de sabiduría, prospección o cualquier otra cosa, depende de tu creatividad.
  • [Français]
    • Fait intéressant, cet abus dure depuis quelques mois et il n'y a eu aucun commentaire de la part des modérateurs ou des développeurs du jeu.
    • Ma suggestion serait de limiter les récompenses par adresse IP, comme cela se fait sur les champs de bataille afin de résoudre les problèmes de free kill.
    • Un autre suivi consiste à ajouter un système de notation fair-play, où les modérateurs pourraient punir les joueurs qui abusent du jeu de différentes manières, c'est-à-dire qu'en commettant ces comportements anti-jeu, ils prendraient des sanctions pour ne pas pouvoir entrer dans certains donjons, taux de sagesse inférieur, prospection ou autre, c'est à votre créativité.

~Traduzido pelo Google tradutor, façam um esforço para tentar entender.
9 0
Score : 6006

This is indeed a big problem.
It ruins the fun for PvE players the same way old battlegounds exploits ruined for PvP players.

Don't get me wrong, adjustable levels and ranked dungeons are literally the best thing already implemented in the game. This way people can enjoy old content while adjusting the difficulty by themselves.

However it's frustrating to see how some people exploit the system.
I hope the team take a look in this case
 

7 0
Score : 2988

this man again captured the dungeon ladder on UB 80. apparently, 123 chests from this dungeon were not enough for him in the October 


I hope the moderators will say the message to the developers. because many people are already tired of looking at this abuse
2 0
Score : 3827

guy is just making kamas
not his fault that the system is broken smile

1 -2
Score : 92

 

Growlurg#6792|2021-11-02 15:24:16
guy is just making kamas
not his fault that the system is broken smile

Yeah, It is actually not. Although that being anti-ethic about a broken system and exploiting It, that IS his fault
4 0
Score : 147

Look for the definition of "Fair-play".
We're talking about ankama, a small company whose Wakfu is not its main product, if it is to abuse any means of gaining an advantage over other people, the game loses its fun.
Again, it's only a game.

2 0
Score : 29

A fact. Big problem in ranked

2 0
Score : 67

You should NEVER blame people abusing the system. He playing by system's rules and enjoying the game. Such people just show it's weaknesses, and if devs ignore it - it is not his fault. "Fair-play", 'morality', ethic' - this words are senseless in this situation. Just imagine - you will ban him. Im 100% sure someone else will come - tomorrow or a bit later, it does not matter. So, you should FORCE to change SYSTEM, not to ban someone who did nothing wrong and playing by system's rules.

3 -13
Score : 787

Sorry, but there are institutional ways of showing the issue to the Staff, like we are doing it here, reporting it in the Forums, or sending a ticket. exploiting a system failure for personal gain just because the system allow it and letting it pass inadvertised is an invitation card for more people to abuse it. Morality, Ethic and Fair-Play are completely senseful in this exact situation, as  these words are the cornerstone that compounds us as a community.
The ones that abuse the system are hardly trying to change it. if that player was trying to prove a point, we were to see he here on the forums as well.
If we are to close our eyes to these very concepts, we would corrupt ourselves. We are, online, just a reflection of we are on real life, dude.

10 -1
Score : 2988

You wrote in the first message that you plays for 18 classes on your own without other people
(the image that you show to other people and on the screen all 18 classes)


, so U protects people like him, for whom there are no concepts and values ​​of the community.
This is not a single(solo) game, people and communities play in it, which means that your activity can both help and harm the surrounding players.
Wakfu is an MMORPG game. people and communities have suffered from the abuse by this person, therefore he should be punished because he CONSCIOUSLY abused the system in a social game.
TheOktopy1#3328|2021-11-03 13:55:35
You should NEVER blame people abusing the system. He playing by system's rules and enjoying the game. Such people just show it's weaknesses, and if devs ignore it - it is not his fault. "Fair-play", 'morality', ethic' - this words are senseless in this situation. Just imagine - you will ban him. Im 100% sure someone else will come - tomorrow or a bit later, it does not matter. So, you should FORCE to change SYSTEM, not to ban someone who did nothing wrong and playing by system's rules.

.........

completely agree:
"If we are to close our eyes to these very concepts, we would corrupt ourselves. We are, online, just a reflection of we are on real life, dude.."
6 0
Score : 787
offtopic: i want to play with you sometime dudes, i've added you on ankama launcher
2 0
Score : 67

That's really funny how some people trying to NOT get MORE DROP for themselves, but punish the others, ahah

pssk#3116|2021-11-03 14:15:47
Sorry, but there are institutional ways of showing the issue to the Staff, like we are doing it here, reporting it in the Forums, or sending a ticket. exploiting a system failure for personal gain just because the system allow it and letting it pass inadvertised is an invitation card for more people to abuse it. Morality, Ethic and Fair-Play are completely senseful in this exact situation, as  these words are the cornerstone that compounds us as a community.
The ones that abuse the system are hardly trying to change it. if that player was trying to prove a point, we were to see he here on the forums as well.
If we are to close our eyes to these very concepts, we would corrupt ourselves. We are, online, just a reflection of we are on real life, dude.



do you really think that this dude cares about you or any else? he playing the game in way he think that's right and system allows it to him, What is his fault?) He did literally nothing wrong. IF you dont like it and IF it seems incorrect for you - fine, go and try to change it. 
To make it clear. He is not some kind of Robin Hood, he just playing as he like, he dont care about you or any others. Everyone can do something like that, even me. But im to lazy, so, your ladder is safe, for now.
If you think that there should be some rule (on site or anywhere else) that forbid it - think again. Why should it be so complicated rather then implemented in game? And also, system is trash and they probably know it.

Infoglas#1636|2021-11-03 15:42:43
You wrote in the first message that you plays for 18 classes on your own without other people
(the image that you show to other people and on the screen all 18 classes)

, so U protects people like him, for whom there are no concepts and values ​​of the community.
This is not a single(solo) game, people and communities play in it, which means that your activity can both help and harm the surrounding players.
Wakfu is an MMORPG game. people and communities have suffered from the abuse by this person, therefore he should be punished because he CONSCIOUSLY abused the system in a social game.
TheOktopy1#3328|2021-11-03 13:55:35
You should NEVER blame people abusing the system. He playing by system's rules and enjoying the game. Such people just show it's weaknesses, and if devs ignore it - it is not his fault. "Fair-play", 'morality', ethic' - this words are senseless in this situation. Just imagine - you will ban him. Im 100% sure someone else will come - tomorrow or a bit later, it does not matter. So, you should FORCE to change SYSTEM, not to ban someone who did nothing wrong and playing by system's rules.



.........

completely agree:
"If we are to close our eyes to these very concepts, we would corrupt ourselves. We are, online, just a reflection of we are on real life, dude.."


Hey nectum
​​​​​​​
The difference is in style im playing. Im collecting gear for each character and im playing 18 character BECAUSE there are 18 classes. It's some kind of challenge, you know? I can not make "meta" setup sacrificing 2 others parties and im not using clones in my stacks.
also funny you think that wakfu is an MMO, lul. Party finder system isnt work, most of top of the PvE ladder are 1-man-armies, PvP was elite and force you to invest tons of kamas to play, and now its completely dead. 

And, as you said, in real life system changed every time something new unregulated happened. It almost never predict its ways of corruption. It called "precedent". So, you failed in that point too.

And the last thing. If someone REALLY think, that devs should forbid using multi account in dungeons...Well, i know another strategic MMORPG died after that decision) 
4 -8
Score : 147

The problem is in the equipment rotation for multi-account if you still don't understand, if you want to play with 18 classes, feel free, you can play with up to 6 repeated lessons, no problem, now abuse equipment rotation in 50 accounts...

1 0
Score : 147

 

Infoglas#1636|2021-11-03 19:19:36
‎ele justifica abuso deliberado, desde que ele possa classificar. quando essa pessoa captura todos os 200 lugares, vamos ver o que acontece então com suas palavras. ‎
‎ no mês passado, o abuso resultou em uma pessoa ocupando 123 lugares sozinho no Covil da UB 80 Excarnus e podemos verificar quantos lugares mais ele tomou em outras masmorras. ‎
‎ não é ok quando uma pessoa toma 123 lugares (61,5%) em uma masmorra‎

 


Not to mention that it runs away from the proposal of the best to be able to rank better than the others, since it's only 1 shift, it ends up being the one who does it first.
End of month, midnight and the guy has 30 accounts, you wake up the next day and there's no competition.
2 0
Score : 787
Well, it can't be denied that he made at least contributed to the discussion, in some ways:

The first that can be noticed are these solutions that he came up with that i will discuss over below:
  1. [*]The Bad One
    Forbid to use more than 6 characters in ladder per IP (that will ruin all experience to people like me, who want to play different classes)
    I can't see where this is the Bad one. Doing so would transfigure would improvise the system greatly, it would be extremely more democratic, as more players would have access to the ladder. That is actually the very system in vogue that works on characters, but not accounts, when you complete a ladder dungeon, the system fetches your best result and that is your position. Doing Modulated dungeons and doing it for the position in the rank are both separate things.
    Combining it with an IP Block i say it would go up to the top of democracy, as only one player can access only one rank, and then you would have to play more content to have more acess to more chests. If hipotetically we have the situation of 1 rank per dungeon, per account, per IP, this could even incentivate players to search for and play with other players, as they would gain more chests in lesser dungeon runs.

    Observing the Fact that Wakfu is a Massively Multiplayer Online, not a Absolutely Soloplayer Online, i can't see where this is the bad proposition, this is by far in my humble opinion the best propositon without major changes to the system, its rewards drop chances and et cetera.

    [*]The Good One
    Give a prizes to all. Remove dependence of how many turns it takes and count only stasis.
    This is the system in vogue of the Crown in Ladder Dungeons, when you complete the Ladder in 1~10 you get a  Bronze crown, 11~20 Silver, 21~50, Gold Crown, and then the Insignias go going up-rank by each 10 Stasis points.
    Removing the turns on the account would simplify the system without touching a major issue, which is "comes-first-takes-it-all". I dare to say that simplifying the system just as that would even permit more people to abuse it, cutting out performance of the equation.
    Giving prizes to all, on the other hand, is a complete separate argument, that I agree with Growlurg's propositions, and that would be a suggestion to improve the results of the ladder as well as the ladder per se, i would much rather spend my time discussing it in another post separately.

    [*]The Wierd One
    The weird one. Link an item to an account when you put a sublimation on it (or when you start a fight with sublimated item on you).​​​​​​​
    This proposition is garbage, i wont discuss it, it has several issues within it that goes beyond the topic in question.

I won't discuss him and personal disparities at all, as he is visibly not interested in improving the game for the comunity, but for himself, and I, well, I want to play with my friends.
2 0
Score : 67

How WEIRD can people be? Next time read what im trying to say and think before left your opinion, thanks. And i cant get 1 thing. If you think, that this guy is me - he is not. Im another dude, just playing multi account as well, so, i dont want to get a huge pile of sht because of mad lil shy boys who can not think clear.

Wonalo#9797|2021-11-03 21:47:58
The problem is in the equipment rotation for multi-account if you still don't understand, if you want to play with 18 classes, feel free, you can play with up to 6 repeated lessons, no problem, now abuse equipment rotation in 50 accounts...



i know that it is a problem. I understand, that all situation is bad for community, game, etc, etc. I just saying that you shouldn't blame anyone who abuse it. Blame the ones who let it keep going. What's wrong with that opinion?)
Infoglas#1636|2021-11-03 22:19:36
he justifies deliberate abuse as long as he can rank. when that person captures all 200 places, let's see what happens then with his words.
last month, abuse resulted in one person ranking 123 place alone on UB 80 Excarnus's Lair and we can check how many more places he took in other dungeons.
it's not ok when one person takes 123 places (61,5%) in one dungeon

 



Weird again. Im not justifying abuse. Im justifying dudes who makes it. That still NEED to be fixed. That is wrong. BUT that is not HIS fault. Devs let him do it => he keep doing it. If that will be fixed (IN GAME, not by bans/repressions/even not in licence agreement) - it will be great for me as well as for entire community.

pssk#3116|2021-11-04 01:34:54
Well, it can't be denied that he made at least contributed to the discussion, in some ways:

The first that can be noticed are these solutions that he came up with that i will discuss over below:
  1. [*]The Bad One
    Forbid to use more than 6 characters in ladder per IP (that will ruin all experience to people like me, who want to play different classes)
    I can't see where this is the Bad one. Doing so would transfigure would improvise the system greatly, it would be extremely more democratic, as more players would have access to the ladder. That is actually the very system in vogue that works on characters, but not accounts, when you complete a ladder dungeon, the system fetches your best result and that is your position. Doing Modulated dungeons and doing it for the position in the rank are both separate things.
    Combining it with an IP Block i say it would go up to the top of democracy, as only one player can access only one rank, and then you would have to play more content to have more acess to more chests. If hipotetically we have the situation of 1 rank per dungeon, per account, per IP, this could even incentivate players to search for and play with other players, as they would gain more chests in lesser dungeon runs.

    Observing the Fact that Wakfu is a Massively Multiplayer Online, not a Absolutely Soloplayer Online, i can't see where this is the bad proposition, this is by far in my humble opinion the best propositon without major changes to the system, its rewards drop chances and et cetera.

    [*]The Good One
    Give a prizes to all. Remove dependence of how many turns it takes and count only stasis.
    This is the system in vogue of the Crown in Ladder Dungeons, when you complete the Ladder in 1~10 you get a  Bronze crown, 11~20 Silver, 21~50, Gold Crown, and then the Insignias go going up-rank by each 10 Stasis points.
    Removing the turns on the account would simplify the system without touching a major issue, which is "comes-first-takes-it-all". I dare to say that simplifying the system just as that would even permit more people to abuse it, cutting out performance of the equation.
    Giving prizes to all, on the other hand, is a complete separate argument, that I agree with Growlurg's propositions, and that would be a suggestion to improve the results of the ladder as well as the ladder per se, i would much rather spend my time discussing it in another post separately.

    [*]The Wierd One
    The weird one. Link an item to an account when you put a sublimation on it (or when you start a fight with sublimated item on you).
    This proposition is garbage, i wont discuss it, it has several issues within it that goes beyond the topic in question.

I won't discuss him and personal disparities at all, as he is visibly not interested in improving the game for the comunity, but for himself, and I, well, I want to play with my friends.



about that one.
Bad one is bad because people who playing more than 1 party for fun will lose a huge part of motivation. Its like a forcing to play only 6 characters. 6 META characters for sure.
Good one is good because for me (and many others. I see a lot of people doing some dungeons at s50 outside top 60) it will be the same (or even better), because i like to do some low lvl dungeons (1-155, after 155 they become a bit uncomplitable) in autobuilds at 50 stasis. FUUUUN.
And also current system force you to do dungeon as fast as possible (in turns), so, best setups forming META and you should follow it or you will get lower reward just BECAUSE. Also current system makes rich people richer and gives a little profit for poor ones who just get started.
Weird one is weird one, nothing to say. Problem is a gear rotation - that fixes a gear rotation. There are no any other solutions to fix that.
2 -6
Score : 787

 

TheOktopy1#3328|2021-11-04 12:28:46

A friend of mine always whined about how Ecaflip was bad on PvM and this and that, and meta this, meta that, and i just couldn't agree with  him as I cannot agree with this simpleminded, weak and shallow argument. 

We have more than a hundred dungeons, so it should be natural that some classes perform better than others in some, but, in the end, no class can perform well alone.

The other day i saw this dude that plays with eniripsa at lvl 20 and turned the world upside down, because he broke all the ranks with his own strategy outside meta; he also made lvl 35 and 50 dungeons with that one strategy, and that is totally not "the meta". There are tons of ways of compiling a party and do some strategy on that that can break the meta, either you elaborate some strategy, or go for pure-damage parties, so i personally can't agree with you in that matter of copying anothers person party because "that's meta", this issue has a lot more to elaborate with.

As you said yourself, you have acess to all the classes, so you have literally more than a thousand party compilations and strategies that could be done, that ignoring the fact that each character has several build compositions, then you can't complain about meta, you just have to elaborate your own strategy for each team composition, afterall Wakfu is a strategy game.

If you would like to continue discussing possible solutions, I would really apreciate to see your comments on my analysis on your solutions, rather then just a few loose phrases, there is a lot of content in the Ladder System and the game as a whole that could be used to implement possible solutions that we haven't slightly scratched, as you just had exemplified some: . Reworking a problematic issue in a complex game is not an easy and "there is just this way" task. It would also be nice if you could think about solutions not for yourself, of which it would be better for yourself, but for the whole community.
4 0
Score : 67

guess you dont understand. Im not playing 1 party and im not able to get 1 perfect mix ignoring other characters. Im playing 3 different parties. Not 1, nor 2. I should mix "weak" ones with others to get an average result. 

For example, i have that setups:
1. Sacr, eni, cra, sram, enu, osa
2. Oug, sadi, hupper, fogger, feca, elio
3. Panda, eca, xelor, mask, iop, rogue
This setups are quite optimal for me (after elio's resilience rework i lost the possibility to keep -200res in 2nd party each turn. they literally force everyone to play with enu in each setup, removing possibility to keep -200 resists without enu)

And yep. I always see how i can get the best setup. There are always some classes much weaker then others (in damage, in utility, etc). You cant deny meta existence, because you dont really know what are you talking about. 
Are you trying to tell me, that all classes are fine enough to get 1st rank? funny. no.  Are you trying to tell me, that all classes can beat s50 dungeons? Oh, that's what im doing all the time, ahah.
So, what's wrong? Some classes do it faster then others just in fact. you cant do anything about that. That's why current system isnt work. Other things are just lyrics.

Now i will answer an all your arguments.
1. Imagine you have a possibility to create best possible party. There will be no ecas in it. He is right. I play eca as a heal because that's the only way to (try to get it) lose less then in other cases.

2. There are only 2-3 setups which will be best for all dungeons (sometimes you need more melee, sometimes you need more range, sometimes you need rogue. no more. no less)

3. When something work better then another - it become meta. What's wrong in it? You just explained how meta forming. But its still meta.

4. Haha, that's your biggest missunderstanding. You cant. If i will mix my best setup - there will be 2 others which become quite bad to even play (3h boss killing is not fine, isnt it?). And i really know, who is the weakest, who did nothing in a fight, but i cant to anything about it because of my playstyle. And your own strategy will not do nothing if your setup is less optimal then other's guy setup. 

AND THAT'S WHY i see something really senseful in giving rewards based ONLY ON STASIS you done, not in turns, because you said literally what i said - i can create my own strategy, and that will be great, but it will be worse then meta by definition.

5. That's not hard to make an obvious decisions, My one is pretty obvious and have a logic in its core. It can be reworked later, if someone will find something better, isnt it? 

2 -8
Score : 761

I'm pretty sure I've already written it somewhere else, but I can't remember where.
To me, a good solution would be to let the stasis go up infinitely (without having the amount of loot going up exponentially). That way it would reward high-stasis achievers way more compared to fast s50ers. The faster runs at equal stasis should stay as a rule of thumb when two runs are at the same stasis, but you wouldn't blame the system as it's always possible to add a level of stasis to beat your opponents.
Also, an abuse would be easier to notice, as you can't realistically finish a dungeon at stasis 1337.

1 -1
Score : 86

Hello! Before anything I must say I don't really try to get rankings because I don't like competition that excludes people from getting whatever they're trying to get.

So, with that in mind I'd like to suggest something after reading the entire topic.

1) Keep stasis and turns as is: Let people show off their power, they farmed for it, they feel good using it and also feel good showing it off on rankings.

2) Change the ranking system so one party only takes one slot. Yes, 6 characters taking only one place. Entire party gets rewarded - but once per account. If you later do another run with someone else to help their account you won't get doubled rewards (see point 6). The leader gets shown in the ranking, hovering would show the entire team.

3) Ranking rewards should be given only once per IP address. If people abuses it, Ankama could make a system that tracks the gear used on the ladder. Then if a player happens to have the same IP and any item ID that was traded (e.g. duplicated on the ladder), the party is disqualified. If they still abuse it with different gear and VPN - well, that's a whole lot of less work for moderators already.

4) Everyone who tried should be rewarded. If you didn't make it to the top 200 you should get at least a consolation prize. This can be done in multiple ways. Either reward more chests to every account that makes it to the ladder or give a lower tier of chest to everyone who tried.

5) The consolation prize should either be once per IP or linked to account. If you end up putting a linked sublimation on a gear, let it be, it already places a good enough restriction against abuse and it's better than it is is right now. Alternatively these should drop fragments of sublimations just like we have fragments for relics - long term prizes works well for consolation prizes and incentivizes people to keep trying, someday they might make it but at least it's always worth they time if they don't. It's better than giving it your best just to get denied any kind of reward at all.

6) Completing dungeons/bosses with completely different characters should also give you an extra prize. For example, assume a player has 5 geared characters. They complete it once with a 3+3 party with the first 3 characters and then complete it again with another party with 2+2+2 characters. This should only take a slot on the ladder per account still. You worked to build different characters, you should feel free to use them and get rewarded for trying. The point of this is also to incentivize playing with others.

7) The current chests should be revamped to compensate reducing the number of top tier chests each player at high ranking gets. If you're used to get 6 highest tier chests you shouldn't receive less due to this change - or alternatively your reward must be as good as the 6 chests you get right now. And then, on top of that, you (and everyone else) would also get more than how it works right now.

TL;DR:
Treat completing competition-mode dungeons as a monthly task, every account gets something, every different team gets something (incentivizes multiplayer aspect), ranked players gets something again. Account and ranking rewards are limited by IP and once per actual player. Team rewards are limited to once per character - alternatively rewarded more than once if they legit help another actual real player.

Top tier: Gets super good #1 rank chest, gets account monthly reward for that dungeon, gets rewards per character that participated.

At-least-tried: Gets consolation prize, gets account monthly reward for that dungeon, gets rewards per character that participated.

I might be missing a whole lot of things but I'd like to see changes this way in that "everyone is happy" (except the ones banking on the prices being always high because the lack of accessibility for these items... but that's another history... I do agree they should be high but I personally don't like how the system actively denies the majority of players from having a chance).

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