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Dual Class System

By Gunnerwolfang - MEMBER - August 14, 2020, 05:41:10

Your class got nerfed?
Bored of your class?
Your class is useless in one particular fight?
Your class is bugged after an update?

Here is a solution for all of that class problem, without buying a class change, starting a new character from scratch or rage-quiting.


Dual Class System
https://www.dofus.com/en/forum/8-suggestion-box/219426-dual-class-system?page=1
The ability for 1 character to change into its alternate/paired class.
Basically, an osamodas can change into a foggernaut with one double-click of a button, since both class worship the same god (don't worry, if your class have no 2nd follower, there is a solution).

Your character will have 2 class tab that you can easily manage and build separately.
You can change/switch class using character menu or shortcut, anytime anywhere outside of combat.  


World of Twelve
Sadida - Masqueraider
Sram - Rogue
Osamodas - Foggernauts
Ecaflip - Ouginak
Cra - Godless*
Iop - Godless*
Eniripsa -- Godless*
Sacrier- - Godless*
Pandawa - Godless*
Feca -- Godless*
Xelor Godless*
Enutrof - Godless*


Godless* Class
Huppermage
Eliotrope

Godless class can be assigned as a temporary 2nd class of the 8 gods who do not have a 2nd follower yet..
As new classes are added, they can initially be added in the godless class (or normally be assigned to a specific god).
When there are 8 godless class in total, a survey event can be conducted to assign which class will be the second class of the 12 gods (6 more new class to go, before the picking event, this might take a long time before completion)..



If they want to implement dual class right away, then they could just do another eliotrope and break the game lore to make the krozmos be a World of  8 gods (Sram is not the only one who pulled a Eugor trick, the other 4 gods also did the same act to gather more followers).

World of Eight
Cra - Iop God of Damage (Wrath)
Eniripsa - Sacrier God of Survival (Gluttony)
Pandawa - Feca God of Manipulation (Lust)
Xelor -  Enutrof God of Debilitation (Greed)
Sadida - Masqueraider God of Tragedy {Despond}
Sram - Rogue God of Assassination (Envy)
Osamodas - Foggernauts God of Proxy (Sloth)
Ecaflip - Ouginak God of Supremacist (Pride)

Godless class (Apathy)
Eliotrope
Huppermage


3rd Class System
Godless classes can be chosen as third class of any of the 8 class pair.
If you start off as one of these 2, then you can choose to have any of the 8 pair to be your 2nd/3rd class.
Newly added classes can be added in the godless class until there are 8 godless class, at which point they will be allocated to be a specific 3rd class  of the 8 gods. A survey event could even be held to vote which god each class will be following.



Now if your Osa get nerfed, you can play as a foggernaut for a while until the osa get buffed.
Bored of your Sram? Switch to a Rogue.
You don't need a sacrier in a boss fight? Be an Eni for that fight.
Your rogue is bugged after an update, you can play as a sram until your rogue is fixed.

You have an Osa and Fogger character already?
When before, you can only play as an Osa + Fogger combination, now 2 new combination will be available for you:
Osa + Osa
Fogger + Fogger

You already have an osa and fogger on same account?
You gain a new set of build to experiment on, plus the ability to have a different 3rd class (one will have a hupper 3rd class and the other will have a eliotrope).

Will never happen, we already have class change potion that gives Ankama revenue...
You can still use class change potion to switch into a different class pairing..







OVERBOARD ALTERNATIVE SUGGESTION
Just for the heck of it. LOL

World of 6X2 = 12
There are actually 6 pair of twin gods that are born from the Wakfu Eggs.
Each of these twin gods have 3 followers.

Yugo: Cra - Iop - Eliotrope (Damager)
Nora: Eniripsa - Sacrier - Feca (Defensive)
Glip: Sadida - Masqueraider - Enutrof (Tactician)
Qilby: Sram - Rogue - Huppermage (Assassins)
Chibi: Osamodas - Foggernauts - Xelor (Overlords)
Mina: Ecaflip - Ouginak - Pandawa (Hybrids)

or 

Yugo: Eliotrope - Huppermage - Xelor (Mage Lords)
Nora: Eniripsa - Sacrier - Feca (Survivalist)
Glip: Sadida - Masqueraider - Enutrof (Tactician)
Qilby: Sram - Rogue -  Iop (Destroyers)
Chibi: Osamodas - Foggernauts - Cra (Keep away)
Mina: Ecaflip - Ouginak - Pandawa (Hybrids)
 

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Score : 5034

The idea is good but crazy in implement... Consider if they want solely specific role in a class, this may viable for the alternative playstyle. 

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Each class will still have a specific role. In the World of Eight system, your iop will still be the close quarter damager and still cannot use the spells of a cra. Your cra will be the long range damager. Each of the nuances of each class will still be unique for each classes. You will only have the option of changing your class base off your worship of the same god.

If you select the god of defensive ability, you can switch to classes base on defense:
1. Defensive Heal Eni
2. Defensive Tank Sacrier
3. or in the case of W6X2, Defensive  Shield Feca
3 different defensive style but uses the same principle of defensive power.

But yes, I agree, this will be crazy difficult to implement. But as the saying goes, "If there's a will, there's a way". Unfortunately, I don't think the devs have much will left. I make these suggestions in case the devs finds their will to implement something as crazy as this.

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Score : 730
Grand Evangelization Event
When there are enough godless class to pair with the classes that still have no 2nd followers, the devs can conduct a survey event where players can vote which god gains certain godless class.
Ofcourse the devs could do this automatically, but doing it this way gives them more brownie points on their player feedback communication. The only downside to this is that players can choose pairing that makes no sense at all.

To make the survey event more dynamic, it could be implemented in stages... 
Stage 1: Basic Survey
The result will be posted and players will have a general idea of the trend in the pairings.
If players do not agree with the class pairing that they will be getting, they still have one chance to change the pairing by participating in stage 2.
Stage 2: Open House Class Survey
For 1 month, players can change their 2nd class and can freely select any godless class to be their 2nd class and in the end of the event, the selected pairing will be tallied.
Only character with certain level will be included in the tally (level 180+, or higher/lower depending on devs preference). This stage holds more weight because players who actually play the class would actually be doing the selection.
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There are logical typos in many places in this text, and some races still have their own gods, albeit not some specific ones. Let some not even worship them. And some may be God.

For example, Sir Persedal, who became a god on the animated series, if I didn't get it wrong.
Or Ruel, who several times in a row interacted with “God Enutrof”, albeit not directly.
Oh, what is it, look at Yugo. Isn't he a god in season 4?

So such classes cannot be called "Godless". In that case, this whole idea is very dubious.

Not to mention the fact that classes are not just classes in this sense. They are separate races, and simply converting one race into another at a click ... sounds pretty silly.

Moreover, the fact that you have to pay for the "Booster pack" to play for 3 characters at the same time ... it seems to me or is your idea just an attempt to bypass donation? And if this is introduced, imagine how many builds will disappear, you will have to invent all the bundles from scratch, this is much more work for developers than for players.

All combat mechanics will need to be changed so that there is no imbalance, and it will take more than one month to "polish".

And not only mechanics, but also dungeons, quests. Everything so that the scheme for accumulating experience outlined by the developers for a certain time does not break.

I think if it will be implemented somewhere, it will not be here. Not in this one. Maybe in a newer, more open game for such things.

UPD: Although there is an option if the developers make a separate server with separate mechanics, which still happens in Wakfu

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Score : 730

 

SslendyCcandy|2020-09-04 23:51:59
There are logical typos in many places in this text, and some races still have their own gods, albeit not some specific ones. Let some not even worship them. And some may be God.

For example, Sir Persedal, who became a god on the animated series, if I didn't get it wrong.
Or Ruel, who several times in a row interacted with “God Enutrof”, albeit not directly.
Oh, what is it, look at Yugo. Isn't he a god in season 4?

So such classes cannot be called "Godless". In that case, this whole idea is very dubious.

Semantics, Godless just meant that their god is not one of the 12 prime gods.



Not to mention the fact that classes are not just classes in this sense. They are separate races, and simply converting one race into another at a click ... sounds pretty silly.

Classes in the Krozmos are not about races, any character can be a certain class if they choose to follow a certain god. The child of an Iop and Cra can be a Feca if they choose to follow the goddess Feca. Race is not a factor in the Krozmos class mechanics, it is based off of their belief and the power of the classes comes from that belief. I am merely presenting the perspective that since two class follows the same god who have multiple aspect/persona, why not create a mechanics that allows a character to have access to the powers that those multiple persona grants.

 

Moreover, the fact that you have to pay for the "Booster pack" to play for 3 characters at the same time ... it seems to me or is your idea just an attempt to bypass donation? And if this is introduced, imagine how many builds will disappear, you will have to invent all the bundles from scratch, this is much more work for developers than for players.

This suggestion have nothing to do with booster pack's perk that allows one to play 3 characters at the same time. The only donation that will be bypassed will be the revenue from class change services. And the class change service will still be viable in cases when you'd rather change worship to a totally different god.
No builds will disappear, all current build will not be affected, their effectiveness (or ineffectiveness) will still remain the same, you will just have the option to use the best suited class for the impending situation that you will be facing.




All combat mechanics will need to be changed so that there is no imbalance, and it will take more than one month to "polish".

And not only mechanics, but also dungeons, quests. Everything so that the scheme for accumulating experience outlined by the developers for a certain time does not break.

I don't think any mechanics will need to be changed because all current class will not be changed,  Their playstyle will stay the same, the only change will be the ability to change your class' way of worship from one class to another but each followers will still be the same class as before.



I think if it will be implemented somewhere, it will not be here. Not in this one. Maybe in a newer, more open game for such things.

That newer game would be great.... Now the question is, would you rather have that great game mechanics in this game rather than have it on another game? Don't you want Wakfu to be a more open game? In a real life scenario, are you OK with your neighbor having exclusive access to the latest gadget because you are deemed to be not suitable to have such gadget? Wouldn't you want the best feature to be also accessible to you.



UPD: Although there is an option if the developers make a separate server with separate mechanics, which still happens in Wakfu.

A separate server for this mechanics would also be great, and the same question applies, don't you want it in your server? And creating another server for this would spread the playerbase even thinner?


This suggestion is indeed more suited for a game that is not free2play because we all know Wakfu is free to play and you do not need the ability to change class when you can just create all the classes on multiple account without spending anything. This suggestion only serves as a fun game mechanics in F2P games but it would be very useful in Dofus which shares the same universe as Wakfu. I only present this idea in Wakfu for the novelty factor and for those who would rather have the ability to change class easily.

So you are doing a dungeon and the first floors can be completed faster using a full damage team, but the boss room requires a more tactical team. So on the first floors you can use the damage dealing Sac or Iop to deal close damage and finish the floors fast, but on the boss room, staying close to the boss would be dangerous so you can change your Iop into a long range Cra and your close-quarter Sacrier into a healer Eniripsa. This dual class switching mechanics would make teams be more versatile to cope with the team strategy. 

 
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This sounds like a very bad decision for solo players who lack certain characters on the same account. The fact is that just the ability to adapt to situations and change one character to another is the privilege for which we pay (3 characters at one time). Otherwise, join the guild ... well, or be a mega-brain and do whatever you need on one character, that's all.

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I am a member of the guild, however, even so it doesn't really help me. After all, no one from the guild wants to play with me, and I have already lost my last friends with whom it was pleasant to play. I myself go into the game sometimes because I really like it.
If you want to suggest improving the game not for "mega-brain / extrovert", then definitely not in this way, your idea is very bad)

First of all, you need to update at least pvp, so that "monsters" with PVP equipment that costs millions of kams do not kill countless newcomers, preventing them from receiving bonuses for participating in pvp.

If you want variety, no one forbids you to switch to another character, depending on the situation. This two-class system will not solve any problems, think about something else.

Meanwhile, your idea is just for smart enough players, because remembering all combinations for a certain class, and not getting confused in them, is quite problematic.
It would be better if you created a theme with improved content for such solo players who come into the game to have a rest, and not to "work" again just on themselves in the game.

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I am a member of the guild, however, even so it doesn't really help me. After all, no one from the guild wants to play with me, and I have already lost my last friends with whom it was pleasant to play. I myself go into the game sometimes because I really like it.

Then why do you suggest joining a guild if it doesn't really help you? 


If you want to suggest improving the game not for "mega-brain / extrovert", then definitely not in this way, your idea is very bad)

That is subjective opinion. IMO, it is not bad.


First of all, you need to update at least pvp, so that "monsters" with PVP equipment that costs millions of kams do not kill countless newcomers, preventing them from receiving bonuses for participating in pvp.

I personally don't have any problem with PvP, because I don't PvP, which is why I don't waste my neurons making PvP suggestions. I let those who like to PvP make PvP suggestions.


If you want variety, no one forbids you to switch to another character, depending on the situation. This two-class system will not solve any problems, think about something else.

If you are in the middle of a dungeon run, can you switch to another character and keep your room progress? With a dual class switch system, you can.



Meanwhile, your idea is just for smart enough players, because remembering all combinations for a certain class, and not getting confused in them, is quite problematic.

You do not need to make additional effort to remember anything new because the classes will remain the same. And you do not need to switch class if you do not want to. It is an option to switch class so if you want to remain using your default class, you can actually remain in your default class so you do not need to remember the combinations of your paired classes.



It would be better if you created a theme with improved content for such solo players who come into the game to have a rest, and not to "work" again just on themselves in the game.

I can barely understand what you mean.... If you are suggesting to make more solo oriented content, or to have a solo-team server/client, I would agree to that, but those are different from this suggestion. Solo contents and dual class system can work hand in hand together at the same time without any conflict with each other. They are both options that could improve the game.

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Hmmm the title was interesting but the ejecution seems... weird.

Leveling 2 classes while playing a single character and being able to change from one to another with just one click seems so out of place.

I'd like a system where you could further customize your character and maybe some cross-class interactions, but I don't think this is a way to do it. ph34r

 

Gunnerwolfang|2020-09-13 14:16:05
"I'd like a system where you could further customize your character and maybe some cross-class interactions, but I don't think this is a way to do it. ph34r"

In other MMO games in the market, they use a system called class progression wherein your character will gain a higher tier class once they reach certain benchmark,  for example a knight class can be promoted into a paladin or a dark knight when they reach level 50, a mage can be promoted to more powerful summoner or sorcerer, an archer can be promoted to a more powerful sniper or hunter class, etc etc etc.... That is a typical class progression in most regular MMO game.... My suggestion is unique from all other games in the market because the 2 class are equal in power as the first class. In typical old school class progression where you will customize your class further, the first or basic class is inferior to the promoted/higher class, but in my unique system, both class are equally viable. You won't find this system in any other game in the world.

In other games, once you acquire a paladin class, you will no longer switch back to a basic knight class, but in my system, if you play as an osa and you gain the ability to switch to a foggernaut, you will still find it useful to switch back to osa depending on the situation because they are both equally viable in their own merit.  

 


Yeah but in those other MMORPGs, you usually pick a neutral character that has the option to forge it's own path the way you want. Whether it be by just swapping weapons or alligiance, you are playing a single character that can take on multiple paths that isn't usually restricted by religion or other constrains. Their starting Race is also just a cosmetic thing or gives them a boost to common stats across the game (Mind, Intelligence, Agility, etc) and not something that defines their playstyle entirely.

In Wakfu, you play more of a Race rather than a class. You character is linked to a deity from which they get their powers from AND appearence. I won't lie, I haven't read a lot of the Lore of Wakfu outside of the game but I'm pretty sure that there aren't any records of characters changing classes/races or something similar to that. That's why I think that the suggestion doesn't addecuate to the Lore of the game and, therefore, it seems very out of place. (not saying that I don't like it, just doesn't seem to fit in Wakfu and, then again, I haven't read a lot of the Lore of the World of 12).

Maybe you suggestion would be more ideal if Wakfu had a system similar to those games that you have played.

Something like:
  • You start the game as an Incarnate at Incarnam. The base class/race of the game that has the ability to forge it's own path.
  • The Incarnates are able to collect and absorb the powers of special Fragments linked to a god (Iop, Cra, Pandawa, etc).
  • The Fragments are collected though out the tutorial or special quests given at each of the Class Temples in their respective nations.
  • Once you obtain a Fragment (Iop Fragment, Cra Fragment, etc) you are able to equip one in the Accesory slot (where you equip Emblems and gathering tools).
  • After the god Fragment is equipped, your character shapeshift into the class and is able to use their spells.
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Score : 1344

It IS out of place. Designing a game around the convenience of a player takes away it's identity, and at some point, it becomes generic as just another game with nothing iconic to remember by

We wants an MMORolePlayingGame, not MMOGame. If people wants a grindless easy to play MMOGame, there's plenty of loreless Battle Royale games out there that doesn't require grind, where players fight each other for the sake of fighting, cuz it's a game.

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@Gunnerwolfang
Yeah, i get where you're coming from and the reasoning behind your argument.

Designing a game to be rigid and frustrating to players could only lead to a bleeding playerbase.

But, to be fair, majority of the playerbase that left after a minor inconvenience, are usually the same kind that rushes Leveling as much as they could, then call it a day when it becomes too grindy and stops being rewarding (Dopamine Kick), before moving on to another game.

Yes, game hoppers is a things, jumping on whatever is trendy. PUBG, Fortnite, Apex, Valorant, Fallguys, the list goes on, these type of players despise grind, and prefers short and dopamine rewarding game, when they're bored, they simply hop to another trendy game.

The worst part is some MMORPG devs fell into the trap of pleasing these players (which will eventually leave anyway), by making the game more casual friendly / easy mode. Doing that eventually backfires causing the actual Core players to leave, since each Easy Mode update essentially lowers all previous effort made by the players who've worked for them, just to see their value being cut due to being more easily obtainable in Easy Mode. For Wakfu, it was Token Machines, Then Relics... the list goes on. Grind n Player Progression is part of RPG culture, what made MMORPG fun is you're building a Character, role playing in a World inhabited by other Players.

Please stop casualizing MMORPG and made it into a fast pace easy mode by stripping every elements that made MMORPG an MMORPG. On that note, PvP revamp, it's an essential part of MMORPG when it comes to player interaction. Lack of player interaction, might as well be a RPG that requires internet access.
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Score : 730

Not all casual gamers are that fickle minded. Stop stereotyping casual gamers. Yes, some would change game when something new and fun comes along, but they always come back to the game that they had the best experience on. That is what the game needs, something that will bring back the casual gamers and will make them come back again and again. 

Way I see it, casual players would play wakfu, then say "What a boring, grindy game". Leave and never come back.... But if the devs makes fun and casual mechanics, those casual players might play other games, but come back to that fun casual game of "Wakfu". And this will not even affect hardcore players because the rewards from their hardcore effort will still be exclusive to them since they are the only ones who can do hardcore contents. All that will be added are more casual contents.

You want to keep the game exclusive to only the actual core players, then be prepared to watching the game's playerbase bleeds. A game needs wakfu in order to flourish, if you prefer stasilli, then the future is bleak for "Wakfu". 

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Your idea seems to condense the large roster of eighteen classes down to fewer. If we're going that direction, why not skip having classes be separate and instead combine pairs of classes to have a larger spell set?

For example, if Sram and Rogue were combined as classes and all their spells brought together to have a total of thirty elemental spells, twelve active special spells, and upward of twenty class-unique passive spells. You could build a character to only use the Sram half. You could pick and choose spells from either Sram or Rogue. 

This would never happen in Wakfu but could be possible in Waven or yet another "sequel" game from Ankama that takes the same classes from Dofus and tries to reinvent them.

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Condensing the classes is not a good mechanics because it actually limits versatility and tactics. And some class pairings could benefit from a versatile class role which could be limited if the two class were condensed into one. not to mention the amount of balancing that will need to be worked out in order to condense a class. For example, the ability of a sacrier to power up when receiving damage would be more efficient when they gain the eni's ability to self-heal. The powering up ability of an Iop would be more efficient when mixed with the long range abilities of a cra. Some spells are not supposed to be mixed together. 

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Interesthing.

Also, what the ef m8

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