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Wakfu doesn't need a server merge.

By KingAchelexus - MEMBER - July 21, 2019, 09:54:41

It needs an international monoaccount server, like Dofus. It pretty much breathed new life into the game, and made it much more popular than before. People will always choose the path of least resistance, in a MMO, it means they'll play solo when they can. But a MMO isn't made to be solo, it makes the game too repetitive and not social enough, which makes people quit over time.
 

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this thread is click bait sad

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+1, monoaccount would motivate me to play again for sure. 

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Let me put that in a better way..
Wakfu doesn't need a server merge, it needs:

1) More advertisement, this game is pretty much forgotten and a lot of people never ever heard of it in the first place, try to google ANYTHING about this game and you will find your search results are quite poor and outdated.

2) That Ankama starts listening to it's community instead of just doing whatever they ~feel~ it's right, sure, don't listen to everyone since there is some people that suggest some pretty stupid things (like that guy that wanted a full month rollback because of a mild exploit that wasn't really interfering in anyone's lives, a lot of people didn't even knew that was happening), before the new rune system a lot of people were talking in the beta about the re-roll exploit and even giving fair criticism and feedback on the system and everything was completely ignored and shipped as it is in the end..

3) Cut down the grind, MMOs in general are grindy, everyone knows that, but Wakfu is BEYOND grindy (and with this newer rune system it has gotten even worst), I mean, it's fine for MMOs to be grindy when you can kill enemies with a click or two in your typical MMO but Wakfu requires a full fight with everyone having their turn.. Maybe not so much on the EXP side since we have booster packs and EXP multipliers with said packs but at least on the profession sense and amount of materials required for certain professions, seriously, why do I need SO MUCH RARE FISH to make A RING?!

4) Better balancement, pick any 2 dungeons from any level range and there's always the one that is very easy and effortless and the one that is so BS people don't even wanna touch them, two examples from Lv141 dungeons: Enurado is easy, mobs have no annoying mechanic and the jewels on the ground even buff and heal you, the boss is fairly balanced as well; Blopera is pure BS, the mobs itself have a very annoying mechanic that requires constant check and if you are a DPS type of character (Like Iops or Xelors) the fixed damage reduction will be the bane of your existence, do I even need to talk about the boss? I think not..
4.1) Stop balancing characters with PvP fully in mind, this game is a PvE experience first and PvP last, classes in this game where created in a sense that they all have strong and weak points and they need to be complemented by other allies so OFC some classes are going to be good for 1v1s and other will suck, best example, Eniripsas, they are the cream of the crop for PvE, almost indispensable, but PvP Eniripsa?! Don't be a MADMAN!! What are you smoking?!

But then again, they won't listen to us.. Even if a forum moderator awknoledges our existence that doesn't mean Ankama does..

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Grind is subjective. It's less about the repetitiveness and more about the player's feeling of how monotone something is. Leveling grinding is bad mostly because it's so linear and has the same problem that many MMOs have, where nothing you do at your lower levels actually matter. Since gear becomes outdated pretty quickly, and there isn't anything (outside of a relic or maybe epic) you can drop in low level content that is still useful for high levels, people don't have reason not to just rush to max level quickly, which involves skipping content, being powerleveled, or grinding hard, all of which are bad for the gameplay aspect of Wakfu.

Professions in Wakfu are extremely pointless and just add padding to the game. Dropping things through PvM is at least fun and the main aspect of the game, the gathering is such a waste of time because there's no real challenge or depth into it.

These rare resources in particular at such a weird addition, usually you already have to gather a lot of stuff to upgrade any item anyway, which means you'll run across rare resources as well. It's extremely redundant to have both common and rare resources to be part of each recipe, and just complicates things for no reason (aside from adding more RNG to the game).

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I think that even heroes system could work in a monoaccount server. Provided that:

1- You could only get 1 sidekick or hero as your extra party member (not 1 of each, 1 period), so two people alone couldn't 

2- Said extra character wouldn't get exp, loot, tokens or transmutations. This way you would only use it to fill gaps in your team if you couldn't find a full team of 6 members. Basically it would mean that you'd not be encouraged to just keep your sidekick/hero all the time as they don't give you a way to farm twice as fast (that's how it works for Dofus sidekicks, by the way, you don't get extra loot for having them in the party), it'd be just a last resort filler member and wouldn't take up the space that another player might have gotten in any party.

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What Wakfu needs is a more dedicated and focused Developer and staff.

A server-Merge is very much needed at the moment. I know a bunch of people who wouldn't even try a monoaccount server because there is no guarantees that it will be active. There wouldn't be any Heroes/Secondary Accounts to help you if you eventually get stucked at any point. Plus, if you cant keep up with the lead, you will pretty much be left behind

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>Plus, if you cant keep up with the lead, you will pretty much be left behind

This is more of a design problem. The powergap between as few as 20 levels in Wakfu is pretty huge, which means that lower levels don't have much to contribute in higher level content, and high levels can just steamroll lower level content.

This is mostly due to how scaling works in Wakfu, as HP and damage scale too exponentially. In Dofus a level 100 is likely going to die against a group of many level 50 mobs, due to a more linear scaling.

All of this means that the playerbase gets too divided within their level range. In reality what Wakfu needs is more reasons for people to go fight things OUTSIDE their level range, which would greatly increase the potential of players you could party with. The way these level brackets were enforced, making them too self-contained (there isn't an item that will require materials found on lower leveled areas, for example) just hurt this aspect of the game.

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Been playing videogames for 30 years. As a long time gamer, I have played a LOT of games on different genres and have seen games become well known for being fun and games flop for being tedious/boring.

Dofus/Wakfu is a tactics genre game akin to Fire Emblem, FF Tactics, Front Mission, Tactics Ogre, Bahamut Lagoon, Advance Wars, Super Robot Wars, etc etc etc etc etc, just to name a few tactics games that I have played (believe me I have played, and finished more that I listed, those are just the tip of the tactics iceberg).

Tactics genre is the videogame RPG version of boardgames/cardgames like chess and MTG, wherein the fun of it is using your own pieces to win. 

Those games are fun because you are using your own pieces and your own tactical prowess to win. Relying on other player to win is not fun at all. Yes there are players who like the idea of playing with others but just like chess, the fun of it is playing using your own team against other player. This is why there is no team chess ever. Relying on other to win can bring about problems.

1. Others don't have same game goal as you... would rather do other stuff, quest, dungeon, grind, pvp/pve divide.... etc etc
2. Others don't have same gaming schedule as you... only 1/4 of the world is active during your active time. others are busy with real life activities during your active time (sleeping, working/studying, family time, etc etc). You'd be lucky to play uninterrupted for 3 hours with the same teammates without anyone leaving or AFKing.
3. Others don't have same nice attitude as you (scammer, smug, noob, foul mouthed etc etc etc).
4. Others may have different skill, gear, class, level of character that could sychronize with your own character or team preference.
5. Regional lag due to difference in computer specs/internet speed, language barrier/localization, etc etc etc, there are many more factors that makes it hard to play with others. Those above are just the ones on the top of my head but I am sure there are more if I think a bit more.

With all these factors, a tactics genre games is inherently handicapped as a game that should be played with others. Merging server to increase player density and restricting multi-accounting to force players to play with others will not help if the game genre are stressful to play with others.

My alternative suggestion as a 30 year videogame  player who have extensive experience playing tactics genre games, allow players to play using our own team, to allow us to to progress in the game at our own pace without relying on other players. Keep the ability to play with others for those who want the social aspect of the game, but allow those who have problem playing with others to progress by themselves. Allow us to play chess using our own team and stop forcing us to play team chess, it just does not work. Allow players who can't find consistent playing team to progress by themself.

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That's the big issue with Wakfu: You can't do things by yourself. 

The game is programmed so you can't complete a dungeon alone, you can't win a 1 vs 3+ fight against monsters of your own level EVEN if you come up with a good strategy. This isn't the case of other games.

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Well, the crux of your argument is "fun", which is a feeling, and thus not an objective point to make. It's funny that you mentioned how tactical games are similar to board games, because they are indeed. However, not board games like chess, but instead ones like Dungeons and Dragons.

If you ever played D&D or any of its clones, you'll know that they are board games, they are tactical games, and most importantly, they are multiplayer games. When I gather every sunday to play D&D with my friends, it isn't as much for the game itself as it is for the socialization. You can technically still play D&D solo (if you consider that the Dungeon Master takes a role more akin to the computer in an electronic game), yet almost nobody ever does it. Wanna take a guess why? It's likely because very few people would find it fun, it would become a monotonous experience where you're always in control, and the choices and mindsets of your other party players will never influence the results of each session. At this point, people would rather play an actual single player game.

None of these points you addressed are really an issue. At most, they're a design philosophy problem.

1- Players' goals don't have to align with yours, you just have to be able to easily find people who want to play together for a common goal. If anything, it's good for a MMO's world that everyone is doing their own thing.
2- You don't need to be playing with the same people all the time. That just makes the game more monotonous. With a good enough population,  you can find people to party with at any time of the day.
3- Scamming and being foul mouthed are against the rules, and you can always use the ignore function to players who annoy you.
4- That's a design problem with Wakfu in particular, where the power gap is too high even for a small difference in levels. Ideally there should be more reason for high and low level players to play together (that isn't just regular powerleveling). And again, with a populated enough server, you shouldn't have issues finding people around your level.
5- Lag being an issue in a turn-based game of all things is just weird to me. And the language-barrier isn't that bad if you add something akin to community chats like in Dofus.

If you want a single player game, I don't know why you're playing a genre called Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game. I tried playing with heroes a few years ago. I understood the appeal at first, but after a few months I began to realize the issue, that it was boring. Back when you could find groups for dungeons more easily, every run was different, and you could always meet new players to put on your friend's list and message them to party.  

I'm not saying heroes should be removed or anything. If that's how you prefer playing the game, feel free to do that. The fact that Dofus' mono-account server is the most popular, however, is good proof that the majority of players don't have that mindset.

You might argue that these players should simply choose to not use heroes, and this subsect of the playerbase should unite and play together. The reason why it never happened in Dofus before the server and it took special rules to enforce this gameplay style is simple.

"If given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of a game."

This quote is from a Developer's Conference, and is probably the most important thing a developer should keep in mind. It basically says that players are always compelled to play in the way they deem to be most efficient, and if this style isn't particularly fun to them, they'll just stop having fun. This applies to every game, and ever moreso to online games, which are competitive by nature.

Like I said before, people will always choose the path of least resistance. They go for the heroes system because it's easier to beat fights without having to coordinate 6 different people. They find it more efficient to farm any dungeon any time with 6 different characters rather than having to rely on finding groups and only getting one chance of a drop per run. Then they quit once they realize how monotonous, lonely and repetitive the game becomes.

Without this option to fall back on, players only have one choice, to socialize, to meet people and find groups to play with, to join guilds. It's no wonder why Illyzaelle still has 80k daily players on Dofus, Ankama managed to find out that the best way to make players have fun and, consequently, keep playing the game is by forcing them to do that.

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DnD is a social game, it needs other people to play with, Dofus/Wakfu can be play alone with the computer acting as the DM. I used to DM our local dungeon group 20 years ago and our RP group play more time playing solo (almost daily) than playing together (only on weekend).
And "Multiplayer" in MMO only means that there are multiple players playing in the same virtual space all at the same time, it does not mean that they are playing together.

1. If everyone is doing their own thing, then there will be less player to do what you want to do as a team. You want to fight an endgame boss and everyone is doing something else, can you fight that boss alone? "Diversity of doing your own thing" is only good if you can do your own thing by yourself.
2. You do need to play with the same people for a period of time in order to progress. If you are in the middle of a very hard dungeon and half of your team leave because of their real life schedule, can you progress without them?
3. Ignoring players means that you will have lesser players to play with when it is already difficult to find players to play with.
4. Even if you merge server or force other players to single-account, there will still not be enough player that will match your preferred level, skill, gear, etc etc etc etc...
5. When Dofus merged server, the lag spike of the congested server "Echo" wiped out a huge amount of playerbase that cannot play the game. I personally get a 12 second lag when the server merged that I quit playing. I think in order to decongest Echo, they created multiple server to spread the population into mono-account server, temporis server, epic server etc etc... Right now, the current server is suffering item lost crisis that go unresolved for a month now (maybe server cannot handle all the merge and split back and forth, coupled with congestion of new updates).

Yes, 80k player in illy might seem a good social game, but at what cost? Dofus used to have millions of players in the early days when all contents can be soloed by majority, but now that the endgame contents cannot be soloed by the majority, only 80k remains.

In an ideal perfect dream world where everyone have universal harmony playing together, merging server and force mono-account would work, but this is reality, and the reality is that majority of players prefer the path of least resistance, and they will leave if they can't progress at their own pace. Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it and it is not as green pasture as you think. Instead of a high population server playing together, you will be getting laggy server where it would be laggy hell to play with others. And instead of a mono-account server with lots of returning player, you'd get lots of multi-accounters leaving.

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Gunnerwolf: Your suggestion that the majority of players will pick the path of least resistance and play by themselves has one flaw: the majority of CURRENT players. Going back about 5 years, the population on Nox was many times bigger and thus Nox had a pretty busy community. It died off pretty fast after heroes were introduced. 

I will agree with you that the endgame content is ridiculous. Ankama also made a lot of midgame content ridiculous too. What the *(@#% is with the ultimate bosses requiring ALS now? And from what I've heard you need to optimize for the level of the ultimate boss ALS or you'll lose. (So no generic builds).

ALS is stupid too. You know how useful an eni with a generic ALS build is? Fucking useless. 

I'm not surprised about the endgame content though. Someone at Ankama has a real affection for ultimate tactical turn-based combat. They destroyed Dofus the exact same way when Frigost 3 arrived. Frigost 2 had some ridiculous mechanics, but 3 was insane. Those dungeons were so persnickety that only a handful of people managed to beat them - and they'd charge 10mk or more to run anyone else through them. 

How persnickety? Thanks to the system where 4 player characters = 4 enemies, 5pc=5e, 6pc=6e,7pc=7e,8pc=8e, you would only want to carry as few characters as possible. Also, you needed very specific characters - like a cha/agi sac, a panda, a wis xelor, etc. All with specific gear and spells maxed. And then you'd need to do very specific things on very specific turns (like making sure a boss was on a certain square) or the whole 2 hour fight would be lost. 

 

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Your argument is highly subjective with no facts to back it up. There are many possible reason that may have led to the player decline like broken updates, class nerfs, difficulty finding other players to play with, scammed, foul mouthed/irritating players, lag, uninteresting updates, player burnout, etc etc etc etc. 

5 years ago, the game contents are so easy that even if you cannot find others to play with, you can solo those contents and still have fun. Today, the endgame contents are too difficult that it is no longer fun to solo it, and it is also not fun to look for other players to play with because even if there are billions of players, it is still not fun to play with others. In a tactic game, if the fight is too difficult, if one mess up, all others will be affected. Not fun at all. Yes, there are hardcore players' who don't mind wasting their time because of other players mess-up, but those people are very few in numbers. There are thousands of casual players for every hardcore players in a game. If you design a game to only cater to the specific few, you will end up with only a few players staying.

In my personal subjective opinion, heroes is not the disease. The real disease is the difficulty of finding decent players to play with. If you can't find players to play with then you either quit or play by yourself. Heroes are merely the crutch that kept the game alive when everyone else is doing their own stuffs. Unfortunately, the current hero system is still not enough to keep the casual players from staying. If players really want to play with others, they can find others who also wants to play with others. But if a players do not or can't play with others, then they have no other option but to quit, because using multiple heroes requires steep investment in the current system.

In short, if you want more players to play the game, then try to provide options for more types of player, not just for the hardcore socializers. Try to also provide an option for casuals, professionals, tryhards, retros, achievers, killers explorers, etc etc etc...

I am a casual explorer, but the game does not give me the option to use my own team with just one client. Technically I can use multiple client but that requires more resources and are not optimized for smooth playing.

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OoTLink|2019-07-26 06:50:44
How persnickety? Thanks to the system where 4 player characters = 4 enemies, 5pc=5e, 6pc=6e,7pc=7e,8pc=8e, you would only want to carry as few characters as possible. Also, you needed very specific characters - like a cha/agi sac, a panda, a wis xelor, etc. All with specific gear and spells maxed. And then you'd need to do very specific things on very specific turns (like making sure a boss was on a certain square) or the whole 2 hour fight would be lost. 

This is just one of the reason why most players don't want to play with others. And merging servers or restricting multi-accounting will not help if it is a nightmare to play with others. Most players just play casually for fun, and when the game is not fun when your teammate mess-up and you have to redo a 2 hour dungeon... No amount of server merge or MA restriction can fix that. The chain will not be better by simply merging all the weak links together, the chain will only be as strong as its weakest link.
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OoTLink|2019-07-26 06:50:44
Gunnerwolf: Your suggestion that the majority of players will pick the path of least resistance and play by themselves has one flaw: the majority of CURRENT players. Going back about 5 years, the population on Nox was many times bigger and thus Nox had a pretty busy community. It died off pretty fast after heroes were introduced. 

I will agree with you that the endgame content is ridiculous. Ankama also made a lot of midgame content ridiculous too. What the *(@#% is with the ultimate bosses requiring ALS now? And from what I've heard you need to optimize for the level of the ultimate boss ALS or you'll lose. (So no generic builds).

ALS is stupid too. You know how useful an eni with a generic ALS build is? Fucking useless. 

I'm not surprised about the endgame content though. Someone at Ankama has a real affection for ultimate tactical turn-based combat. They destroyed Dofus the exact same way when Frigost 3 arrived. Frigost 2 had some ridiculous mechanics, but 3 was insane. Those dungeons were so persnickety that only a handful of people managed to beat them - and they'd charge 10mk or more to run anyone else through them. 

How persnickety? Thanks to the system where 4 player characters = 4 enemies, 5pc=5e, 6pc=6e,7pc=7e,8pc=8e, you would only want to carry as few characters as possible. Also, you needed very specific characters - like a cha/agi sac, a panda, a wis xelor, etc. All with specific gear and spells maxed. And then you'd need to do very specific things on very specific turns (like making sure a boss was on a certain square) or the whole 2 hour fight would be lost. 

 


The system of adding an extra enemy for each party member after the 4th isn't bad. It adds some versatility to team compositions. In theory, adding an extra party member in a boss fight for the cost of another generic enemy added as well isn't a big issue. In Wakfu for the longest time you couldn't really run a lot of stuff with less than 6 members, and outside of the mineral tower, there isn't really any content designed for 2, 3, 4, 5, 7 or 8 players to play at once. Only when the dungeon Stasis mechanics came around was when you could do some dungeons with less than 6 people, and I still think that's an inferior system to Dofus'.

I agree that as time went by, combat mechanics became too punishing, starting with Robowl, Steel Beak and Moon Island, where even the weakest enemies could kill a non-tanky class in one turn and it became way harder to fight around each monster's mechanics. That was also when heroes came out, which makes me think it was by design, because it became impossible to coordinate 6 random players to beat those things together. So began an age where you would only participate in the end-game content if you either had heroes or a very well coordinated party (usually in an active guild). Eventually everyone just moved to heroes, and the community died off. 

It's funny, because recently Dofus moved away from this sort of design, and even "nerfed" these needlessly punishing/hard mechanics from Frigost 3 and such. For me, the funnest time I had in Wakfu was when you could actually do things with random different people each time, and as soon as content became too hard and stressful to do that, the game's fun died off to me.

ALS is also a silly bandaid solution to a design problem. Everything is just too self-contained in Wakfu. A player doesn't have reason to play in lower level content because they'll never drop a piece of gear or material useful to them. A group of players doesn't have a reason to team up together to fight slightly higher leveled stuff, they won't get anything useful to them.

At one time, before the equipment revamp and spell deck system messed up the game's scaling, a group of level 140 players would still struggle against the Emperor Jellix, the boss of a level 100 dungeon. And despite being a level 100 dungeon, Gelano was a level 65 item, meaning players could try to drop fragments much earlier. Rare items like Mushmantle, Cactlass, Rogmourne and Hushed Scepter, acquired from content level 110-130, were still expensive and used by players as high as level 150. They didn't simply dump equipment every 15 levels for something similar yet slightly better. 

In Dofus the power disparity isn't as high, someone can beat another player 30 levels higher in PvP. A level 200 can barely solo a level 100 dungeon. A level 100 can still be invited to a level 150 dungeon and contribute to the fight. Wakfu added minimum level requirements for entering dungeons years ago, and I still don't understand why. The way experience was calculated already kept players from being as easily powerleveled. It did nothing but limit the way players interacted with the world and other players even more.  

It's funny that a game that started as an open world sandbox eventually made players so pigeon-holed into only doing things near their level that the entire experience became rail-roaded, killing player interaction even more, as the number of partying possibilities became smaller and smaller as time went by. The exploration aspect died, and the game became another generic themepark, almost getting into "WoW clone" territory.
 
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What made people quit over time was the poor handling of just about everything. The shift away from square-enix as was the drop off point in the popularity of the game, at least over here on Nox. Rampant bug abuse went on unheeded and depleted the faith many players had in Ankama to take care of their playerbase.

The community still hasn't fully recovered and Ankama hasn't done much to restore that faith either. Copy-pasting over what Dofus did isn't going to help reinvigorate the game.

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Dofus has a ton of good ideas that could work in Wakfu.

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"Merging games" doesn't actually exist. You can't combine games like they're ingredients for a cake, you can only remake features/content from scratch from a game to the other. At most, what would happen would be either Wakfu or Dofus having their development cancelled, and all of the budget and developers would pass to the other game. 

Wakfu exists for the same reason why Lineage 2, Guild Wars 2 or Final Fantasy XIV exist. You can't keep updating a MMO forever unless it stays popular for a very long time like WoW. At some point you'll need to at least move to a more modern engine, which pretty much means remaking the game from scratch, so companies just release sequel instead, with more modernized game design. Wakfu just had a very turbulent development cycle, so Dofus retained the popularity, and therefore, the money. It makes more sense for Ankama to keep developing Dofus since it brings more profitability.

If we're talking about hypothetical scenarios here, then it'd be very possible to just have Dofus and Wakfu being developed at the same time, without them being "half-baked". 

The best parts of both games are also pretty subjective, and it's really unrealistic to be able to please both Wakfu and Dofus players. People play either game for different reasons. Even if it was possible to create such a game with features that people could choose at their whim, it would likely still need to be a game made from scratch. So while it may seem a better idea to just focus the development on a single game, I'm sure that Ankama has already analyzed this idea.

If we're talking about hypothetical scenarios here, you could consider one where both Wakfu and Dofus exist and don't get half-baked development. Either way, people play Dofus or Wakfu for different reasons, and it's really unrealistic that you could ever make a game that both audiences would enjoy, since each game's strengths are pretty subjective. 

I'm also sure that Ankama has already considered focusing on just one game, but their market analysis results most likely say that, for now, keeping both games alive is better for them.

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Yes, there are no merging of game.... yet. I am saying that there should be one in order to address the dilemma of closing Dofus (and later on Wakfu) without losing its playerbase in order to keep profitability.

My question is not "Why does Wakfu exists?" My question is "Why is there even 2 game in the first place? When Lineage 2, Guild Wars 2 or Final Fantasy XIV made their 2nd game, they closed down the first one. So why do they keep Dofus when they made Wakfu? That split the playerbase. Instead of spending their resources on one game, they are spending resources on two games that have the same playerbase. My suggestion to address this dilemma is to merge the game together into one game that incorporate the best of both game. How can they do it? I have a pretty good concept on how to do that, I'm sure Ankama can do it if they invest on this endeavor. Now the question is, will they do it? I don't think so. Just saying.

 

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