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Dissatisfactions and Suggestions for Sadida and Osamodas

By nishantjung - MEMBER - May 19, 2019, 09:07:28

The summoner classes Sadida and Osamodas have always been among my favorites. I would thus like to give some suggestions regarding these two classes.

Sadida

Dissatisfaction:

Dolls: This has been discussed at many places but perhaps this is a consolidation of those those ideas. I wish the dolls were a bit stronger. I mean, the "swarm mechanism" is sort of understandable and they used to be very OP (10 dolls high HP) but now they are just really weak- both from a PvP and PvE point of view when in fact, as a summoner class, dolls should be the central idea and the raison d'être of the class itself.
Because,
1. Dolls tend to have very low HP and for a contemporary level mob, it's just easy for them to destroy those dolls.

2. The fact that dolls need to depend on the Ultra Powerful and the death of the latter causing the downfall of them all is also very centralized.

3.While it is true, the passives do benefit the dolls a lot but the fact that dolls have very less HP and are not sustainable enough makes the bonuses pretty futile.

4. The dolls have further been neglected after the introduction of Lone Sadida. I mean, it isn't bad but as I mentioned earlier about the core idea of a summoner class, I feel both the Lone Sadida and the Doll mechanism should be equal like Osamodas summons and Dragon form or perhaps dolls should be more prioritized. *shrugs*

Spells:

Lone Sadida: It is a great passive indeed as it creates diversity within the class but as I have mentioned above, it completely overshadows and the significance and concept of a summoner class and the inequality between the doll type and lone type makes the Sadida tilt towards this option more thus ultimately making the diverse way of playing pretty narrow.

Wild Whispers: I wish it did something more besides mostly as its namesake i.e. just unlock the spell Control and other Voodoll effects.

Air branch: I wish it weren't entirely "weaker" than other two branches and the poisoning mechanism seems pretty fragmented along with passives like Venomous.

Suggestions:

Dolls:

1. I wish the dolls, specifically the DD ones had a greater % of the Sadida's HP. Neither too low, nor too much but at least sustainable and competent enough against mobs and players.
It would also be great if there were perhaps 2 main DD dolls.
i. Close-combat, has the element of the Sadida's strongest element or the second strongest element or maybe water like Greedy.
ii. Mid-distant-ish combat, has the element of the Sadida's strongest element or the second strongest element or maybe air.
Among other dolls:
iii. Sacrificial Doll: I wish the attack spell(Kablooie) were fire type. You know, since it explodes and for the bomb aesthetic lol.

2. The dolls should be decentralized i.e. removal of the Ultra Powerful or removal of the dependence on it for the reasons above that makes the dolls too weak. The Doll Seed mechanism used to be fine.

3. To prevent "OPism", perhaps there could be a maximum number of dolls that could be present in a fight like maybe 4-5 max. kinda like how Osamodas summons are limited by level of summons or something else maybe by adjusting the mechanism or just simply keeping a number cap regardless of Control points.

Osamodas

Dissatisfaction:

Passives: The passives Animal Link, Gobgob, Animal Synergy and Spiritual Whip are outwright just "incomplete" i.e. their effects aren't that significant in themselves. Unlike Sadida passives such as Doll Link, Sadida Prayer, Green Guard etc. which provide "additional" perks to the dolls, the aforementioned Osamodas passives simply reduce the cost and increase the efficiency like a general level up of a normal passive instead of any other perk or bonus as illustrated by the Sadida example.

Less Ally Support and Animal Link: Animal Link has indeed made a wide array of buffs available for allies but the fact that it only lasts one turn and can only be applied to one ally at a time makes it pretty tedious and lackluster. While the Osamodas is not a majority Support class but still, I wish the mechanism weren't so narrow and restrictive.

Suggestions:

Passives: I wish the passives could be overhauled and made more interesting either by replacing the present aforementioned passives and adding completely new ones or improving on the present ones. This could be done by making the passives give buffs given by some elemental spells or adding new perks and mechanisms.

I humbly request the devs and players to look into this and give their humble opinion.

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How about if the dolls worked like sram traps?
If you took the unsummoning spell, you would get access to all the dolls on the third spell bar.

What if sadida dolls worked on a shared power system? For example if you had one doll it would have high damage and resistance (good against enemies with AoE attacks) while if you summoned more, their attack and resistance would be split among them (the power would refresh at the end of your turn, so they wouldn't get stronger as thy died each turn).

Also sadida dolls should definitely not block lines of sight, apart from blocks and maybe inflatables.

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how about if  my favurite  class could oneshot all other classes with 1 2 ap spell wouldnt it be awesome ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)  ? 

the dolls are far from being weak in  pvp . yea they can be useless in pve but not because they are weak its because it take time to settle them that they become useless to use at a point  . and ur suggesting sadida dolls have more hp ? why would they and u can just spam them each turn ?

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because in his suggestion they would actually take your AP to cast? did you even read it?

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fezgg7|2019-05-27 04:06:59
how about if  my favurite  class could oneshot all other classes with 1 2 ap spell wouldnt it be awesome ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)  ? 

the dolls are far from being weak in  pvp . yea they can be useless in pve but not because they are weak its because it take time to settle them that they become useless to use at a point  . and ur suggesting sadida dolls have more hp ? why would they and u can just spam them each turn ?


lol all that sarcasm. firstly, please read it again lol. as i mentioned, the dolls are weak both in pvp and pve because regardless of the number and strength of the dolls, the fact that killing the ultra powerful KILLS THEM ALL which makes them unsustainable. furthermore, in pve, the dolls don't have enough hp to sustain at least quite some hits from a mob of similar level( the greedy only has 10% of sadida hp and they die so quickly, suppose sadida has 1000 hp, then the doll has 100) which is why the hp% should be slightly increased because regardless of the buffs and all, when they die, it's all useless, plus the waiting time to summon another UP(4-turns cooldown, so if all dolls die before that, where's the sustainability?) and it is not about spamming them each turn, as suggested, perhaps they could be slightly nerfed or if not nerfed therre could be an absolute cap in the number of maximum dolls that can be summoned or perhaps the dolls could have divided power( as suggested in the comments) where 1 doll is very strong, many dolls are less stronger as they share their strengths and so on.
In summary, the dolls aren't as competent, versatile and sustainable enough to be significant enough, that too for a summoning class.
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I've always seen the Sadida as the Necromancer job of other videogames. The class has a link with their creatures and their strenght is in the Numbers (Swarm Mechanism as you said) rather than a single strong one as Osamodas do.

It is hard to balance a class that summons so much on a tactical turn-based game, sometimes it takes too long to play and mess a lot with your ally's turn.

My suggestion would be giving the class a different summoning gameplay, a Necromancer one: Get additional effects through summoning and destroying your dolls, give the Sadida a reason to take them out of combat. This way the Sadida can summon an army if they want but the main core would be around destroying that army to unleash states. Remote control actions through them instead of weird A.I and make their summoning role an unique one. This way Dolly Sacrifice would have an important place on the Sadida's Deck (I pretty much never use it seeing how fast some dolls die).

The Black magic aspect of the class, Voodoo, seems a little weak to me and should be reinforced on the class through debuffs transfered to the enemies or linking the Voodoll to an ally to be able to cast heals through. Maybe summon a Totem instead of the UltraPoweful in case this doll get removed.

In short: More Voodoo stuff and make the gameplay around dolls more interesting an viable on a Team Enviroment. More versatility.

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I've seen some of these kicked around a few times now, and wanted to add a point which I feel often goes unsaid, or flies off the map entirely. You probably won't run into much contention over the ideas that salad dolls often feel meh, and osa passives are incredibly boring, but you may run into quite a bit if the implicit argument is that the classes as a whole are underperforming.

As was already mentioned, summoning classes are notoriously difficult to balance, and while I'm of the opinion that osa is too far gone to address properly without a real rework (and I haven't seen a particularly coherent idea there for what should change, including my own), I feel that the make-dolls-amazing-again argument is less about new ideas and more about balance. The Lone Sadida passive is kind of its own conversation, but even without that the class just isn't balanced in such a way anymore to need the dolls to carry much relevance (or Lone Sadida wouldn't have much to work with anyway). Though I know plenty of people were unhappy that the result was more support-oriented than the original greedy-storm shenanigans.

It's true the veggies (poor greedies especially) are prone to exploding before accomplishing much, but it's also true that the investment for trying is significantly smaller than it once was, and your other pursuits aren't nearly so watered down as they were. Some people like it better this way, some people would happily give all that back to have a high-functioning greedy hit squad again, and I think that's really the context that most of this lands in.
--Notable exception for the wee screamer. That poor bugger still needs some halp just in the context of getting completely screwed by the transition to the willpower mechanic (Sinistro too).

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