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Dear Wakfu Devs, Class Dipping in Wakfu

By Reg3e - MEMBER - April 08, 2019, 22:34:35
AnkaTracker

So, I've been playing a CRPG called < Forum Rules > recently, and I've discovered something very interesting that could work in Wakfu, and solved a lot of the class balancing issue.

It's called "Class Dipping". Essentially, you start of as one specific class, but as you progress through the levels, you'll have the choice to either remain pure, or dip into another class for some of it's early level perks (Multiclass / Sub Class / Jack of all Trade, Master of none).

Yes, this isn't exactly canon in Krosmoz universe, and class are likely to loss their individuality. That said, it'll open the door to infinite amount of potential builds, main storyline, player role play.

Dungeons are no longer class restricted in a sense of "It has to be that team comp to work". PvP will immediately become more interesting, it's no longer Class vs Class, as each match will be a surprise since it'll be hard to guess what kind of build your opponent is using.

If the Devs, or Krosmoz Universe Writing Team likes the idea and wish to tie it into the canon universe. It can go something like an individual decides to worship multiple gods, thus gaining new power. But he/she can only worship that many because of the mortal limit of his/her Soul, a.k.a Wakfu.

Food for thought. smile

- Reg

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You already have several builds to choose from on each class (ok I'll agree on some classes some builds are less viable then others (looking at you foggernauts(stasis) and masquaraiders(fluctuation spitoon))), so if you want more diverse options on classes you should instead be asking the devs to make different playstyles on each class more balanced so you can actually play different builds without being held back by bad spells or passives.

PS: Also we already have 18 classes with more being added eventually, we don't really need more lock-in specialisations then we already have.

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I think that having 2 classes on the same character goes against the lore of the game and, seeing how things are, it would cause a lot of balancing problems in my opinion. Some classes are already very strong and giving them the option to freely cover their weaknesses would make things unfair (Feca - Ani, maybe Sadida - Xelor (a lot of debuffs), Iop- Sacrier!??)

I'd prefer that Ankama would let us to have more ways to improve our gameplay around the 3 defined roles that every class have without necessarily afecting the others. For example, I've always wanted a debuffer Eni and accoŕding to the info they are "masters of poisoning and weakening enemies", but in the game you see that's not true and their "debuffer" side is almost zero.

I think your suggestion is interesting, but it doesn't fit the Wakfu universe and rather than having mutiple classes on the same character, what i think we need are better class revamps and reinforce the character roles.

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Yeah eniripsa's diseases were nerfed so much in the revamp I haven't seen anyone else actually use it, except for psycosys flask on bosses.
And the marks aren't that great either, at lower lvls everyone just uses the sadist and here mark because they are cheap and trigger massacuring and lategame the massacuring is a problem because half of the moon and zinit mobs actually have anti-AoE mechanics.

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Class up/promotion is a common system in a RPG. Some games uses class branches/tree. Ankama should really add these feature before there are too many class which would make this task harder (Oops, I think there are already too many class so this would be quite difficult already).

Anyway, I once suggested in the dofus forum a way for Krosmos character to have multiple class option which is not typically a class promotion. It takes into account the worship nature of classes in the krosmoz universe.

Dual Class System (with variation for tri-class, and quad-class system)
https://www.dofus.com/en/forum/8-suggestion-box/219426-dual-class-system
With this system, class who worship the same god can freely switch to their alternate class outside of battle.

Classes that already have a pair.
Osamodas - Foggernauts
Sadida - Masqueraider
Sram - Rogue
Ecaflip - Ouginak

Classes that do not have a pair yet.
For now, they can only swap to the generic 3rd class (Huppermage), until they acquire a 2nd discipleship. (Here are some of my past class suggestions just to show sample class pairing).
Cra - Cowboy Click here
Iop - Icarian Crusader Click here
Pandawa - Gemini Twins Click here
Eniripsa - Druid Click here
Sacrier - Zombie Rockstar Click here
Enutrof - Feng-Shui Tarot Click here
Feca - Monster class: Goball Click here
Xelor - Shadow Mimic Click here 

Special Case
Huppermage - This class do not worship a god, so it is possible to make this class into a generic 3rd class for all other class.
Eliotrope - This class is an anomaly. It does not worship an active god and do not actually exist. So class swapping might not be possible for this class. Wait for it to become an actual entity before giving it the option to swap. Or just ignore lores and give it the ability to atleast swap into a huppermage. 

Yes, this system would take a lot of work and Ankama have no plans (nor the resources) to implement this right now. Just a suggestion.
 

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While yes some gods lead multiple classes, it wouldn't really make much sense gameplay wise, sadidas play nothing like masqueraiders and srams play nothing like rogues.

Also rogue is already a cowboy, sadidas are druids, ecaflips already use tarrot and shadow mimic is already a sram thing (why would you even give that to a xelor?).

And while huppermages don't worship a god, they worship the krosmic balance, a force of nature in the universe above even the gods.

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Gunnerwolfang|2019-04-10 11:07:10
"While yes some gods lead multiple classes, it wouldn't really make much sense gameplay wise, sadidas play nothing like masqueraiders and srams play nothing like rogues."

That is the point of the class swapping. If ever Sadida got nerfed or you are bored of summoning plants, then you have the option to play as a masqueraider (until the class gets buffed again), and vice-versa. The main point of class swapping is keeping with the "worship of one god" mechanics while allowing players to play a class with a different mechanics. Like I said, this is not a typical class upgrade like all the other RPG in the market. This is uniquely different.

...

And since Huppermage's form of worship is non-diety, it would make it possible for other classes to use the krosmic balance without losing their piety to their chosen god, much like how every class can use wakfu or in some cases stasis. IMO, the twelve gods won't mind if their followers tap the power of the krosmic balance since it is not a god.
 

1. So you just want free very limited class changes for very specific classes? I don't think there would be much interest for this. Also how is that a class upgrade? You are literally just changing your class.
Also you couldn't really become an osamodas as a foggernaut or vice versa as one is organic and the other is a homunculus.

2. You have to be born with a light elemental affinity to be a huppermage, unlike most other classes (exceptions are eliotrope and foggernaut) where you just pick a god to worship after (or before) you are born. Otherwise you can become a hoodloom at most.
Also all class spells besides fogger spells are based on wakfu manipulation.

 
Gunnerwolfang|2019-04-10 21:29:35
1. Why wouldn't there be much interest in a free limited class changing? Ankama did implement in Dofus a free limited spell changing when they implemented spell variants.

"How is that a class upgrade?"
It is not.
Like I said, this is not a typical class upgrade that is common in all other RPG, This is uniquely different. It can be a class upgrade system if this feature will only be available later in the game (halfway to max level cap), and you have to undergo a process/quest to activate your 2nd class.

Osa can be two  entity in one class. It can be done by mind linking an osa to a homunculus. Ever heard of the movie Avatar wherein the main character is a human who can become a giant alien by using technology.  Now imagine doing that in a magical setting.
2. IMO everyone is born with all elemental affinity, even light affinity. just in different degree. It is just a matter of harnessing all the element. That is why it is called krosmic balance. No sense calling it balance if one is born with only light affinity.

Also,  wakfu and stasis are two sides of the same coin. One cannot exist without the other. So all beings have access to both (not just about spell polarity) and can gain wakfu points or stasis points depending on their actions.

1. While that's ridiculously advanced technology, I will admit that with technomagic we've seen in the show it wouldn't be outside the realm of possibilities.
But I still don't think this is something a lot of players would want or what the team would be willing to spend their time working, on.
Just my opinion.

2. That's literally stated in the huppermage lore, everyone is born with ability to bend wakfu around them to their will to use elemental spells, but only a few are born with the ability to wield light magic created by the quadramental breeze, it's ike wizards in harry potter.

3. Yes wakfu and stasis are both needed in balance but stasis is inherently volatile so wielding it like wakfu to form spells could hurt you you if you are organic (en even if you aren't, all stasis spells also hurt the fogger using it).
The "wakfu and stasis points" you were talking about isn't you having more wakfu or stasis, just gaining more affinity for one, but that's a really outdated system. The devs said that they would like to change the system completely but they have more important plans atm.
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1. Why wouldn't there be much interest in a free limited class changing? Ankama did implement in Dofus a free limited spell changing when they implemented spell variants.

"How is that a class upgrade?"
It is not.
Like I said, this is not a typical class upgrade that is common in all other RPG, This is uniquely different. It can be a class upgrade system if this feature will only be available later in the game (halfway to max level cap), and you have to undergo a process/quest to activate your 2nd class.

Osa can be two  entity in one class. It can be done by mind linking an osa to a homunculus. Ever heard of the movie Avatar wherein the main character is a human who can become a giant alien by using technology.  Now imagine doing that in a magical setting.

2. IMO everyone is born with all elemental affinity, even light affinity. just in different degree. It is just a matter of harnessing all the element. That is why it is called krosmic balance. No sense calling it balance if one is born with only light affinity.

Also,  wakfu and stasis are two sides of the same coin. One cannot exist without the other. So all beings have access to both (not just about spell polarity) and can gain wakfu points or stasis points depending on their actions.
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cody5|2019-04-10 21:00:14
1. While that's ridiculously advanced technology, I will admit that with technomagic we've seen in the show it wouldn't be outside the realm of possibilities.But I still don't think this is something a lot of players would want or what the team would be willing to spend their time working, on.
Just my opinion.

2. That's literally stated in the huppermage lore, everyone is born with ability to bend wakfu around them to their will to use elemental spells, but only a few are born with the ability to wield light magic created by the quadramental breeze, it's ike wizards in harry potter.

3. Yes wakfu and stasis are both needed in balance but stasis is inherently volatile so wielding it like wakfu to form spells could hurt you you if you are organic (en even if you aren't, all stasis spells also hurt the fogger using it).
The "wakfu and stasis points" you were talking about isn't you having more wakfu or stasis, just gaining more affinity for one, but that's a really outdated system. The devs said that they would like to change the system completely but they have more important plans atm.

1. A lot of players did not want a portal class in the game, but Ankama implemented the disciple of the eliatrope god-king anyway. Nobody knows what the devs are willing to spend their time on. When I suggested the "Multiple Choice Spell System" in Dofus, it took Ankama 5 years to implement the "Spell Variant" which added 360 new class spells in the game (18 class x 20 new spells each). https://www.dofus.com/en/forum/8-suggestion-box/227264-multiple-choice-spell-system?page=1
Critics of the multi-choice spell system did say that "I don't see something like this being implemented in the future. Too much work for ankama.".

2. Lores can be retcon to fit a class swapping system. 

3. Yes it can hurt you, it can even kill you.... but stasis can be used nonetheless by anyone who would take that risk.And since the devs plans to change the wakfu/stasis system... Anything is possible when they do get around to changing that system.
 
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While it is true that the game have a lot of classes to choose from, I think that a Class Upgrade would be totally viable, it is just a mather of reinforcing the class mechanics. This is different to have multiple classes on the same character as was suggested initially by the autor of the thread which, in my opinion, don't fit so much in Wakfu

For example: Sadidas and Eniripsas can debuff their targets but in different ways. Eniripsas do it through flasks and propagator while Sadidas through direct spells and dolls.

I remember a good concept from the Beta when Sadidas could store air spells on their targets enabling a way to debuff the enemy's resistance using dolls and dmg them. Thats a good mechanic that would be applied for a  "Class Upgrade"  for a Sadida that decides to follow the Debuffer path.

Fecas had glyphs where they could increase their resistance to the cost of movement (if they moved the glyph was destroyed) and even had a healing one. So there could be 2 paths for this class: Tank that relies on shields to absorb dmg or Tank that have aditional glyphs and increased efficiency.

For Rogues the thing is easier due to the difference between their branches: A path specialized in close-combat finding a way to find the enemy vulnerabilty, a path especialized in bombs (maybe having different gadgets ex: sticky bombs or making the robot explode) and another one especialized in Shots and guns.

As long as they keep the class true to their mechanics and concepts, Class Upgrades can be done. Everything can be balanced applying the right conditions and restrictions.

This would let us choose paths to specialize and make changes along the way. Right now we play with the same spells from level 1 to 200 and things don't tend to vary to be honest.

Spoiler (click here to show spoiler)

a good example of a Class Advancement system is Elsword. A game with a lot of characters that are true to their role and don't overlap with each other
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i still preffer the early days of remmignton ... where wakfu was hard to make money and if you had 2000 kamas you was rich as hell... the unique way to build your character was really though... because that time you could only increase your skills by using them... or else it wouldnt increase a lvl (or gain EXP) so you basicly forced you to use any skills XD
Th elsword class system is pretty unique and good indeed... many games use that too... rusty hearts had also that...
i would go back to this game, if there was a mono account server like dofus... which i also don't play because i dislike how dofus is right now =p

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