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Huppermage mini-Revamp idea

By Granthese#6501 - MEMBER - November 16, 2022, 08:36:35

When it comes to classes in Wakfu, Huppers come in second as my favourite (guess which one is my favourite...) and that means not only I want the class to be good, but to be FUN! And while Hupper is unnarguably a fun and diverse damage dealer, it's going through some hurdles in the meta, endgame and overall builds to fully explore it's potential, so I'll offer some ideas for a well-balanced "revamp" that is minimalistic in changes but impactful in the result:

Natural Passive: Huppermagic:
  • Automatically unlocks Heart of Fire , Will'o-Wisp and Principio Valere at the third Spell Bar.These spells are too important to the Hupper so it's best to spare our time and add it to the Third Bar already.
  • At the end of their turn, the Huppermage generates QB. (I don't know how much QB it generates as of now, but so far I think it's a good amount anyway)
  • Elemental Spells Generate a corresponding Rune.
  • The latest Elemental Spell used grants the Huppermage +10% Elemental Mastery on the corresponding element.

Rebalancing changes:

- Downpour's range is reversed to non-linear. Water spells are not WEAK per se, but the linearity in ALL of them can be really clunky, so one of them could be relieved of this limitation.

- Earth Spells could also gain a slight increase in damage. Huppermages seen to always focus on Fire and Air because of raw damage, Water isn't too bad but limited and Earth feels downright feeble. For a class about all four elements, only half is really considered a meta.

- Glistening Halo: Effect on enemy reversed to Huppermage 1.0 version. The old Glistening Halo had a much better utility and helped favour an AoE build too.

- New Active Spell: Shimmer - 2AP, 1-6 Non-Modifiable Range
Ressuscitate an Ally with 25% health.
Requires 100% Quadramental Breeze.
75% of total Quadramental Breeze is consumed.

- New Active Spell: Glamorous Path  - 2AP 100QB, 0-1 Range, 7 cells Straight Line path.
Creates a Luminous Path of Light that allows the Caster and Allies to slide on it for 1MP.
Path desappears after 2 turns.

- New Active Spell: Blessing - 3AP 150QB, 0-5 Modifiable Range, 4 Turns Cooldown
Grants self/ally the Blessed Status:
20% of Total HP in Armor Health that regenerates at the start of the turn, lasts 3 turns.


Heart of Fire
This is a small issue I have with Huppermage: The Heart of Fire, Low QB meta. because of the nature of heart of Fire, it seems the best way to use Hupper is to limit oneself to specific gear that lowers your QB to keep heart of Fire up easily since it drains a percentage of your QB rather than a flat number, and considering the importance of WP in this game (literally the TITLE of the game is in it), the goal is to usualy have as much as possible, not as little. So I would like to propose a new mechanic for Heart of Fire.

- Heart of Fire: Requires at least 2 runes to activate. Upon activation, Light Spells deal +50% damage, Elemental Spells deal -20% damage. Using Light Spells will cost 1% of the Caster's total HP per AP spent. (kinda like Foggernaut 1.0 Stasis spells). All generation of QB is nullified.
This way Heart of Fire is not limited to such an annoying meta of equipments, but it isn't a free buff either to those with low QB, the benefits are grand for your Light Spells if you don't kill yourself with it or until you run out of QB, whichever comes first.


Passives
More Passives are being added to classes, so let's have some fun with Huppermage's:
 
-
Persistance of Memory:
Elemental Runes are no longer consumed by spells.
Elemental Runes naturaly desappear at the end of the Huppermage's turn.

 - Willful Wisp:
Radius of Twin Orbs on the Wisp increased to 2-cells circle.
The end of Moonbeam in the Wisp will split into three additional shots (remember this one?)
+15% AoE Damage
Will-o-Wisp desappears at the end of the turn.

 - Quadratic Blessing
Consuming an Elemental Rune will give you a Bonus depending on the rune.
Fire: +10% Damage
Air: +2 Range
Earth: +50 resistance
Water: +2APs
 
-
Burning Passion:
Casting Light Spells while under Heart of Fire no longer costs the Huppermage's Health.
Heart of Fire only lasts for 2 turns before entering a 2-turns Cooldown.

 - Emotional Balance:
When entering Heart of Fire: 100% of your level in Elemental Mastery for 1 turn.
When leaving Heart of Fire: +50 Elemental Resistance for 1 turn.

 - Equivalent Exchange:
Spells that steal Elemental Mastery gain a new effect:
- Energy Flux: Deals Indirect Damage.
- Downpour: 100% Health Theft on damage.
- Collapse: -2MP to Enemies. +1MP to Caster upon use.
- Diurnal Butterflies: -100 elemental resistance to Enemies (Can't stack)
Elemental Spells no longer grant you Runes.

 - Celestial:
Solar Stronghold can be cast on Allies.
Moonbeam, Twin Orbs and Glistening Halo will Heal allies.
The Huppermage receives back 50% of healing done.
20% of Damage Inflicted transfered to Healing Mastery.
 
-
Waxing Moon:
On Odd Turns: 50% of Total QB generated.
On Even Turns: 50% of Total QB lost.
Light Spells are limited to 2 casts per turn.

 - Sunrise:
Light Spells gain +0.5% damage per % of QB when cast.

 - Sunset:
Solar Stronghold
reduces overall damage taken by 15%
Increases Lock by 200% your level
Armor gained from Rift increased +50%
At the start of the fight 20% Damage Inflicted transfered as 20% of HP.
This Passive, similar to Celestial function as a way to give Huppermage the opportunity to play other roles, in this case, a tank.

Admitedly I got a bit carried away with the Passives, but overall I wanted Huppermage to gain not only new variations to the playability, but I also found it a good opportunity to allow Huppermages the possibility of granting support to the team (I liked how old Hupper could heal with Glistening Tears, really added something to the class).

EDIT: When using Solar Stronghold, the Huppermage could have a subtle aura to showcase it.
 
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Score : 560

some of these ideas are fun but some can be very very broken,  sunrise comes to mind and persistance, the idea of spells that should be consuming runes not doing so is too strong, an easy combo would come to mind would be fire flux > light of daw x2 > tear  which deals around 650 base Dmg/ turn  . it might not be the strongest a hupper can dish out but its too reliable and simple for the class that will just be abused. quadra elemental's probleme is that it makes will o wisp obsolete / kind of punish you for using it. thnx for the dedication i wish more posts like this happen fire

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Score : 11052

There is some clash with Quadra-elemental and the wisp I didn't think about, So perhaps the 2AP could be granted at the same turn, which would be a very rewarding Passive to set up combos, as for Sunrise, I kinda like it because the more you use QB, the less bonus you have, so it's sort of a trade off between a constant use of Light spells or a burst usage.
Persistance could use another trade off, but I think it would be a fun idea for Huppers to have Runes that don't last long but last for the whole turn to abuse it a little.
Also, this combo seems to cost 14APs, so the Hupper would need some help to pull it off.

Sunrise does sound a bit broken so maybe the % of damage buff can be toned down a little xD Perhaps 0.5% per 1% of QB, so you get a 50% buff in full QB.

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what about a passive that makes solar stronghold stronger by giving more breeze and increasing damage as breeze goes down?

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That kinda defeats the point of Solar Stronghold being a DEFENSIVE spell, and Heart of Fire is the offensive version of it anyway.

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Since we just got a confirmed announcement for Hupper love next year this thread would be a great place for us all to get together and discuss ideas for what we'd like to see.

Ehem....BRING BACK OLD GLISTENING HALO!

I definitely agree with adding spells to a third bar especially really important ones like Wisp and even Valetre.

Wisp needs to have way more interactions with spells and I suggest something really nifty! MP on Wisp! Let it have its own turn and give it 2-3 mp. No health on it and allow it to still occupy cells the way it currently does. This would help position it for spell interaction as well as keep your resources closer to you if need be.

We need a passive that rewards you for consuming Runes! I do not like the bonus 10% damage Purification has towards fire specifically and I think we need to revisit that. Consuming a fire rune should grant DI till end of your next turn, consuming earth should give resistance, air should be crit (I dont like crit gain in general on this class but couldn't really figure out what else i'd like air to do), and water should self heal by % of health.

Valere should be once a turn usage versus every other turn. Our mobility is caca and it'd be nice to be able to get out of nasty situations.

Hope this thread gets more active I'd love to pop in to check what you all wish for our neat class.

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Score : 560

sadly i dont think principio will ever be a 1 turn cast, but i am not sure. maybe they should give us more mobility by making another spell that tp ?. consuming runes is already very rewarding. i think there should be a passif that rewards not consuming them 



and yes bring back that glistening halo
i am pretty exited i hope everyone who has interest in this class to be there in the beta and give feedback 

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Score : 265

 

Granthese#6501|2022-12-01 03:53:26
I did think about that which is why I created the passive Sunset where the Hupper becomes more leaning towards a tank biggrin

 - Sunset:
Solar Stronghold
reduces overall damage taken by 15%
Increases Lock by 200% your level
Armor gained from Rift increased +50%
At the start of the fight 20% Damage Inflicted transfered as 20% of HP.

Like tormentor on iop? but like that passive is that great for anything other then trying to counter Cra herself very badly.
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honestly i just don't even want to go past the idea that "low QB should not be strong or exist because the game is called wakfu". huppers don't have wakfu. they have QB. they have this for a reason, because they don't worship a god. they're literally the athiest class, it makes perfect sense for -WP to be something they can twist to their advantage.

low QB deserves to exist just as much as high QB deserves to exist and the interplay between these things is part of what makes the class exciting. by all means, buff high QB, but don't remove low QB just because you personally do not like it. the class is for everyone.

taking things away from people who currently play the class and leaving them no alternative is the mark of a bad rework.

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Score : 11052

The problem is that Low QB means you have to specificaly seek the very few, expensive, high level and often situational equipments that have -WP in it, since on its own, Huppermage have 500QBs, and you need at least -4 WP to reach the optimal 200 QB to immediatly trigger Heart of Fire and keep it, to have a busted bonus of 30% Damage and 80 res (with the Dynamo passive, of course) for a class where a lot of QB means a lot of Light Spells. Denying yourself QB for the sake of a buff that should be achievable by better means makes Hupper essentialy a Cra with one extra element.

Low or high QB is fine but shouldn't be the best meta to make Hupper a more viable DPS. And I don't think it should be limited to Light Spells either, hence I added those support spells that cost a tiny amount of QB.

Also, Wakfu is not linked to a god, it's literally the ENERGY OF LIFE! Even plants and animals have Wakfu and they worship nothing. Eliatropes control Wakfu yet they don't worship a god either, same for Foggernauts, they are officialy described as "Atheist" yet they have WP (and not Stasis Points) too. Huppermages have QB instead of Wakfu simply as a design choice for the game, like how mages have Mana in other games, they have QB which is gauged rather than numbered to make their mechanic more smooth, especialy with the passives that control how much QB you generate/spend. If the costs were in WP, it would hazardous to balance and Huppers wouldn't stand out from any other class.

Case in point, if Low QB was an intentional mechanic for Huppermages, they would have passives to reduce their total QB, just like Xelor can reduce their WP for another set of advantages (passives like Deja Vu and Assimilation).

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I thought that was foggernaut gator and also negative wp is stasis or is it?

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Stasis is the opposite of Wakfu. The later is the energy of life, the vital force of a living being, Stasis on the other have is a deadly energy that crystallizes underground and is also the life force of the Shushus and harvested by Sufokians as fuel energy.

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Twilight Beam needs to be revisited as well. I enjoy playing around with it from time to time but it just takes way too long to really use when you can really just double arrow or Arrow+Tears every turn (depending on your build).

I'm honestly not sure what should be done with it besides upping the value so that it is worth holding out for a turn or two of spending qb or just changing the entire spell to something else.

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With maximum QB (and the appropriate passives), Twilight Beam should be the strongest spell in the game. It should be the main reason you look to max out QB. But currently, it's just one of the strongest spells --- with the downside of a really long build up. 

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Score : 99

I thought you both raised good arguments. But I feel like the low QB build is just a part of the Huppermage build tree, now at least. I also feel like having really high QB should be more beneficial. 

T1gerator#5946|2022-12-03 21:11:54
then why remove low QB instead of adding a passive that reduces your max QB and properly integrating it?

your assessment is correct but your conclusion is terrible.


 
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Score : 11052

If Huppermage had some lowering QB passive, it would make it interesting, although also a passive that only serves one purpose for Heart of Fire and Solar Stronghold, while passives are rarely meant to just work with ONE or two spells, they either benefit an array or element. So if I may, a third solution for this meta would be a passive that swaps the consumption of QB from Heart of Fire to another type of ticking clock that is more forgiving on your QB gauge. Perhaps having a 2 turns duration and a single turn cooldown. I could see it working with Pulsation to end your Heart of Fire with a good "hurrah!" of Twilight Beam or QB burn to keep a nice Resistance buff in your off-turn.

Overall, I think HoF just needs a better mechanic to allow any QB build to use it to it's fullest (since a high QB build means a long time to reach the amount of QB necessary to activate HoF)

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Score : 560

everyone talking about -wp passif but why would u ever want a passif like that, when u can easly have the same effect with gear, instead of it taking a passif slot. twilight beam's probleme isnt that it takes too long its that it deals too much dmg for a single target spell when that is not needed 80% of the time when u can have 20% dmg inflicted + 80 res all the time . its not a competition between twilight beam and other light spells its a competition between twilight beam and heart of fire, i did the math multiple times, but twilight beam's probleme isnt the spell itself its that its way easier to play with heart of fire 
 

i definitly want more AOE on hupper and some updated animations, distance aoe as a niche would be nice,  but off with the wishes there is a couple of points that i am sure every player will want to see changed 

-water branch, deleted completely (fully reworked) 

- mobility improved as hupper has the lowest mobility for any dmg dealer in the game 

- more passifs, less passifs that are used all the time

- will o wisp doesnt need control anymore and allow us to have 4 as base and claim more than 2 per turn maybe ? 

- more dramatic spell interactions with the runes and and rune consumption 

- maybe remove the upper limit of QB (999) 

- 3rd bar for essential spells ( will o wisp and principio valere) 

-fix the useless light spells ( light beam and glistening mark ) 

this is it and maybe please more sword spells lmao 
 

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Glad someone else hates the Water branch. It was much better when it removed AP and even then that was a niche mainly in PVP since most mobs don't really care about ap removal unless you can take a metric ton.

While crit gain is nice with the help of subs, especially to those of us playing neutrality Huppermage, hitting 100 crit rate is mildly easy.

Also having another sword spell or making the current one even stronger would be really cool.

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Score : 59

Spell animation revamp too for Hupper? I might be asking too much..

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Score : 4499

You should be asking for more! We've got potential to have some of the coolest looking spells!

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Score : 265

 

Granthese#6501|2022-12-03 05:46:51
The problem is that Low QB means you have to specificaly seek the very few, expensive, high level and often situational equipments that have -WP in it, since on its own, Huppermage have 500QBs, and you need at least -4 WP to reach the optimal 200 QB to immediatly trigger Heart of Fire and keep it, to have a busted bonus of 30% Damage and 80 res (with the Dynamo passive, of course) for a class where a lot of QB means a lot of Light Spells. Denying yourself QB for the sake of a buff that should be achievable by better means makes Hupper essentialy a Cra with one extra element.

Low or high QB is fine but shouldn't be the best meta to make Hupper a more viable DPS. And I don't think it should be limited to Light Spells either, hence I added those support spells that cost a tiny amount of QB.

Also, Wakfu is not linked to a god, it's literally the ENERGY OF LIFE! Even plants and animals have Wakfu and they worship nothing. Eliatropes control Wakfu yet they don't worship a god either, same for Foggernauts, they are officialy described as "Atheist" yet they have WP (and not Stasis Points) too. Huppermages have QB instead of Wakfu simply as a design choice for the game, like how mages have Mana in other games, they have QB which is gauged rather than numbered to make their mechanic more smooth, especialy with the passives that control how much QB you generate/spend. If the costs were in WP, it would hazardous to balance and Huppers wouldn't stand out from any other class.

Case in point, if Low QB was an intentional mechanic for Huppermages, they would have passives to reduce their total QB, just like Xelor can reduce their WP for another set of advantages (passives like Deja Vu and Assimilation).

You should rally hear yourself, wakfu is godless and exists in the krozmoz blah blah blah, huppermages have wakfu too then. unless they have a god that dosen't let them absorb wakfu that dosen't exist

the forgelances are loyal to no god.
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Huppermages have Wakfu, what they don't have is WP, let's not mix game mechanics with Lore, ok?

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