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Should Elio Have Collision Damage?
By EarthyMadness#4775 - MEMBER - August 16, 2016, 06:33:26Okay so, I think this might be an interesting discussion. I want all of you to give your own upsides/downsides etc.
my opinion: I'm personally in favor of it, but only on Siphon.
reasoning: 1) Elio, as they are, are still kind of underwhelming. While they've been improved vastly from the state they were in before, they're barely edging into "average" territory. In terms of damage, we're not that high on the list unless we're built for a risky glass cannon berz build. Having collision would be a tick in our favor, without making us "overpowered" (I mean, really, even if you did nothing but siphon > pulsation x5, you're not going to do much damage since neither spell is particularly powerful, and the collision dmg would only be 1 tick per attack since siphon only moves them one space)
2) To my knowledge (correct me if I'm wrong) no other class has a "delayed collision" mechanic like that. It's almost always cast push spell > do collision if applicable. Xelor has something similar, but it's based on "charge states" rather than "attacks dealt', so I'll split hairs here and say siphon push would be different.
Any other opinions/arguments?
( @flatops because this is also partly a suggestion pls)
my opinion: I'm personally in favor of it, but only on Siphon.
reasoning: 1) Elio, as they are, are still kind of underwhelming. While they've been improved vastly from the state they were in before, they're barely edging into "average" territory. In terms of damage, we're not that high on the list unless we're built for a risky glass cannon berz build. Having collision would be a tick in our favor, without making us "overpowered" (I mean, really, even if you did nothing but siphon > pulsation x5, you're not going to do much damage since neither spell is particularly powerful, and the collision dmg would only be 1 tick per attack since siphon only moves them one space)
2) To my knowledge (correct me if I'm wrong) no other class has a "delayed collision" mechanic like that. It's almost always cast push spell > do collision if applicable. Xelor has something similar, but it's based on "charge states" rather than "attacks dealt', so I'll split hairs here and say siphon push would be different.
Any other opinions/arguments?
( @flatops because this is also partly a suggestion pls)
Respond to this thread
Sorry for long post but I feel that Mobile Warriors should do damage based off mobility.
Yeah, why not?
Problem with putting it on Siphoning is the Siphoning & Inverse Siphoning states are designed to be used by other spells and effects too, which makes it kinda.. tricky to incorporate collision damage into those effects. I don't think Iops want to start taking damage from putting siphoning on themselves.
Also, the level of those states is used to govern the number of activations they have, not the power of the effect, so any collision damage put on those effects would be at either a pathetically small level, or else something else would need to be going on.
It's not like every spell that does collision need to inflict -25 hp per cell, no. But i belive ankama think that way, and thats the problem. When monsters push us we suffer -1 hp from collision and this is all people ask about for their spells, for the sake of certain mechanics that require us to collide things.
Ankama's excuse would propably be Steel Beak fight - they wanted to encourage people to use the poison that make us collide there instead of our own spells to do so, but then again there are still classes with collision dmg. And i am saying its excuse because people would still use that poison to collide if they couldnt use the spell to cause collision, or when they wanted to use all AP on attacking/healing instead.
Man i still miss the times when i could use my Sadida's Gust in kelba special dungeon for collision.
TL;DR: All pushing spells in game should cause collision, at least the basic -1hp.
I also think elio would benefit from it. Make it a little more interesting.
I remember farming harden daz being forced to sit and watch as a sram slowly pushed away at that shield.. My only contribution being the transport to boss (pre pulsation moving portal.. Long range flood body swap, I miss you)
Whirlwind on a portal should cause collision damage To least it's a 4ap cost for a 2cell move. Sram have 2ap fear, panda have 2ap karachmka (5cells ftw, this is as they have perfect placement of target thrown). It's an expensive AP outlay with no dog or utility other than a 2 cell push
A few other thoughts. Elio has passives designed to enhance the utility of certain spells, but those spells are two of the earth spells (ardent aegis and cataclysm/Tremor) and two of the water spells.(pulsation and Flood), but no passives augment wind skills in any way. This is bothersome to me cause it makes air easily the weakest element for an elio. Unleashed blade Is IMO amazing, but is very situation limited. I was thinking awhile back about a new spell that could replace siphon. Not that I expect the Devs to follow through on this, but consider the idea. Air is always positional focused. so instead of siphon there could be a move called:
"Snatch" where if the elio was standing adjacent to a portal and an enemy was on top of a different portal the Elio could "Snatch" the enemy and pull him through the portal to the one he was adjacent too. This would give the elio some added positioning. Typically the move wouldn't do any dmg in Calm, be simply a positioning move, but in Exalted the elio with a similar tmechanic to unleashed blade would Collapse the portal on the enemy while dragging them through causing damage. This would allow a few interesting combos. First snatch then unleashed blade after going exalted, Others would include Lock based elios pulling enemies and locking them for cataclysm or Barrier (the turn delay moves). And although the great versatility of the placement seems OP it wouldn't be too different from the Feca move, and it would be very situational or require great AP costs to set it up (if it was a 2 AP move like siphon then to do from turn one with two portals the full investment would be 6 AP spent without doing dmg unless exalted, requiring therefore 11 AP for an opening unleashed blade combo)
As for passives for air moves I dunno what I'd like to see. Unleashed blade is good. Tempest is great. Maybe a passive similar to transitory flood for torrential flux where if cast with a portal between target and attack the ground burst damage is enhanced.
Also the idea of Collapsing a portal on someone while pulling them through it essentially slicing their body in half is awesome. If i was a mad Elio murderer thats probably the first way I'd try to kil someone hahah
Anyways, a couple of points, I'll keep it short.
First, honestly UB used to be good, but now it's awful, unless you have a scenario where you can exalt, UB, push the target with whirlwind, then UB again, hitting them for exalted UB portal damage twice in one turn. That's the only way I can see UB being good.
Second, siphon has pretty good utility, since it allows any ally to push or pull that target with spells, as long as they're linear. Some classes might get locked and stabilized, and instead of doing a weak, fairly useless push spell just for utility, they can just hit once with a decent dmg/ap spell and the target will be pushed automatically, maximizing their dmg/ap without having to waste damage on utility spells.
A scenario I could see it being used for is if line of sight was blocked for the elio, and they need to push a mob.
I'll admit this is a far fetched scenario, but to explain. So, the elio is locked and stabilized. You need to push the mob locking your ally right, and he has siphon mark already. You could, supposedly, cast a portal to the left of that mob and use whirlwind to push, or, instead, just hit him with pulsation or ethereal, and he'll automatically be pushed to the right, since you're linear to him.
Siphon has uses, mostly for enabling excess pushes, so you can still be doing damage while pushing those mobs.
Sorry for the shitty diagram I just hastily sketched it for the sake of my explanation.