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Eliotrope problem

By thimaster - MEMBER - December 10, 2014, 15:42:19

Well, I played a little with an eliotrope and, after `reading and understanding everything, something came up in my mind: Eliotropes are TOO all around and that makes the class extreme overpowered.

For starter, eliotropes have a long two mid range branchs and a close range one.

Water: Support. Has heals and placement spells. Also has a shield to reduce damage long range. Basically, the last skill nulifies cras.

Earth: Tank and damage. Has a 50% reflect shield and lock buffs. Has a high-hit-medium-range spell. When under 50%, prepare to be destroyed hard.

Air: Damage and AOE. 3 AOE with high damage. And when I say high it's MOTHER OF GOD IT HITS TOO MUCH. First skill can potentially hit 3 times with medium-high damage, third skill hurts too much and, omg, the last skill has 40 Damage per Ap at 200. It's insane. Even Iops don't have that DAP.

Passives and actives: If you tought the things I said before are OP solo, then prepare to be surprised. Here lies where the class REALLY turns OP.
First of all, two passives that makes the class specialized all around: +50% close range damage and +50% long range damage. Both can be learned at same time. The other passives can also reduce the actives costs.
One passive increases beserk damage way too much. double damage and +1 AP and +1 MP is a very big increase for only one skill, even if it's only when under 50% HP. If effervecence and Exaltation are at max level, exaltation has no cost, so you get +60% free damage every turn.
The worst of all is Prevention. This thing makes you survive one turn, no matter what. It's like the sacrier passive, but with a low cost.

These things NEED to be nerfed ASAP!

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Score : 7071
thimaster|2014-12-10 15:42:19
Well, I played a little with an eliotrope and, after `reading and understanding everything, something came up in my mind: Eliotropes are TOO all around and that makes the class extreme overpowered.

For starter, eliotropes have a long two mid range branchs and a close range one.

Water: Support. Has heals and placement spells. Also has a shield to reduce damage long range. Basically, the last skill nulifies cras.

Earth: Tank and damage. Has a 50% reflect shield and lock buffs. Has a high-hit-medium-range spell. When under 50%, prepare to be destroyed hard.

Air: Damage and AOE. 3 AOE with high damage. And when I say high it's MOTHER OF GOD IT HITS TOO MUCH. First skill can potentially hit 3 times with medium-high damage, third skill hurts too much and, omg, the last skill has 40 Damage per Ap at 200. It's insane. Even Iops don't have that DAP.

Passives and actives: If you tought the things I said before are OP solo, then prepare to be surprised. Here lies where the class REALLY turns OP.
First of all, two passives that makes the class specialized all around: +50% close range damage and +50% long range damage. Both can be learned at same time. The other passives can also reduce the actives costs.
One passive increases beserk damage way too much. double damage and +1 AP and +1 MP is a very big increase for only one skill, even if it's only when under 50% HP. If effervecence and Exaltation are at max level, exaltation has no cost, so you get +60% free damage every turn.
The worst of all is Prevention. This thing makes you survive one turn, no matter what. It's like the sacrier passive, but with a low cost.

These things NEED to be nerfed ASAP!

1) The water tree has no healing skills.

2) So because one spell reduces incoming ranged damage by 20% it's immediately overpowered and is efficient against a class makes it overpowered? The Eliatrope can be displaced out of their barrier, or the enemy can stand in the barrier to benefit from ranged attacks from players on the Eliotrope's team.

3) The reflected earth damage doesn't reduce incoming damage to the Eliotrope, and the damage sent back is modified by the enemy's earth resistance. It can also easily be mitigated by simply not attacking the Eliotrope from the front.

4) 40 damage/AP at level 200 on a skill that has a cooldown and is single target with low range is not high at all. First skill hits once, again for half damage, and again only if the enemy is stupid enough to stand back on the glyph at the end of their turn. All other spells are balanced properly for their AP cost.

5) The damage passives are two separate passives and provide an okay but not substantial increase to damage, especially at high levels.

6) The Rage (Berserker skill) that you're talking about is one of the defining archetypes of the class to be able to fight stronger at low HP. Exaltation only provides 60% bonus for the turn you enter the state, and since it's only one cast per turn you have to constantly switch back and forth to activate it every other turn.

7) If you FAIL to predict the death with Prevention your revival spell is now on cooldown for 5 turns.

8) You didn't mentioned Incandescence, which is probably the strongest tool the Eliotrope has at their disposal. This leads me to believe inexperience with the class.

Unfortunately I cannot take your feedback seriously. While I appreciate your concern, the class is either currently balanced or underpowered at higher level gameplay (especially PvM content).

• Mango
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Can we at least take it easy with the Nerf train please. Just saying the word Nerf will set off Ankama.

Is this nerf that you want for PVM or PVP??

If it is PVP i can understand, as for PVM. People need to leave it the hell alone.

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thimaster|2014-12-10 15:42:19
Well, I played a little with an eliotrope and, after `reading and understanding everything, something came up in my mind: Eliotropes are TOO all around and that makes the class extreme overpowered.

For starter, eliotropes have a long two mid range branchs and a close range one.

Water: Support. Has heals and placement spells. Also has a shield to reduce damage long range. Basically, the last skill nulifies cras.

Earth: Tank and damage. Has a 50% reflect shield and lock buffs. Has a high-hit-medium-range spell. When under 50%, prepare to be destroyed hard.

Air: Damage and AOE. 3 AOE with high damage. And when I say high it's MOTHER OF GOD IT HITS TOO MUCH. First skill can potentially hit 3 times with medium-high damage, third skill hurts too much and, omg, the last skill has 40 Damage per Ap at 200. It's insane. Even Iops don't have that DAP.

Passives and actives: If you tought the things I said before are OP solo, then prepare to be surprised. Here lies where the class REALLY turns OP.
First of all, two passives that makes the class specialized all around: +50% close range damage and +50% long range damage. Both can be learned at same time. The other passives can also reduce the actives costs.
One passive increases beserk damage way too much. double damage and +1 AP and +1 MP is a very big increase for only one skill, even if it's only when under 50% HP. If effervecence and Exaltation are at max level, exaltation has no cost, so you get +60% free damage every turn.
The worst of all is Prevention. This thing makes you survive one turn, no matter what. It's like the sacrier passive, but with a low cost.

These things NEED to be nerfed ASAP!
Actually they NERF !! Eliotrope after release in CBT.

And After reading comment mango i dissapoint playing this Eliotrope THEY NERF TOO MUCH.

5 turn cooldown Prevention is fucking so INSANE VERY Unuseful Spell in PvP or PVM
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Score : 181

Calling Eliotropes Tanks?

That is an odd thing to call a Glass Cannon who's primary survival technique is running away. :blink:

Sure, they can get more damage as they lose health, but if they're losing health, chances are it's because they're on a quick slide to death. They're not like Sacriers who can control their downward slide.

I can't comment on the Water Bubble versus Ranged because I didn't take it. I signed up for portal gameplay, not "standing in place" gameplay. tongue

And when it comes to the Berserk passive; I think it seems better to just try to avoid taking damage as much as possible through the strategic use of running away, and skipping the Berserk passive entirely.

As far as Prevention; like Brokonaut said, you have to predict the exact turn you're going to die, or it's wasted. And even if it does trigger, it's just one more turn.
One more turn can be huge sometimes, but sometimes it's not. If that's your tank strategy, well, good luck. laugh

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Brokonaut|2014-12-10 15:53:20
thimaster|2014-12-10 15:42:19
Well, I played a little with an eliotrope and, after `reading and understanding everything, something came up in my mind: Eliotropes are TOO all around and that makes the class extreme overpowered.

For starter, eliotropes have a long two mid range branchs and a close range one.

Water: Support. Has heals and placement spells. Also has a shield to reduce damage long range. Basically, the last skill nulifies cras.

Earth: Tank and damage. Has a 50% reflect shield and lock buffs. Has a high-hit-medium-range spell. When under 50%, prepare to be destroyed hard.

Air: Damage and AOE. 3 AOE with high damage. And when I say high it's MOTHER OF GOD IT HITS TOO MUCH. First skill can potentially hit 3 times with medium-high damage, third skill hurts too much and, omg, the last skill has 40 Damage per Ap at 200. It's insane. Even Iops don't have that DAP.

Passives and actives: If you tought the things I said before are OP solo, then prepare to be surprised. Here lies where the class REALLY turns OP.
First of all, two passives that makes the class specialized all around: +50% close range damage and +50% long range damage. Both can be learned at same time. The other passives can also reduce the actives costs.
One passive increases beserk damage way too much. double damage and +1 AP and +1 MP is a very big increase for only one skill, even if it's only when under 50% HP. If effervecence and Exaltation are at max level, exaltation has no cost, so you get +60% free damage every turn.
The worst of all is Prevention. This thing makes you survive one turn, no matter what. It's like the sacrier passive, but with a low cost.

These things NEED to be nerfed ASAP!

1) The water tree has no healing skills.

2) So because one spell reduces incoming ranged damage by 20% it's immediately overpowered and is efficient against a class makes it overpowered? The Eliatrope can be displaced out of their barrier, or the enemy can stand in the barrier to benefit from ranged attacks from players on the Eliotrope's team.

3) The reflected earth damage doesn't reduce incoming damage to the Eliotrope, and the damage sent back is modified by the enemy's earth resistance. It can also easily be mitigated by simply not attacking the Eliotrope from the front.

4) 40 damage/AP at level 200 on a skill that has a cooldown and is single target with low range is not high at all. First skill hits once, again for half damage, and again only if the enemy is stupid enough to stand back on the glyph at the end of their turn. All other spells are balanced properly for their AP cost.

5) The damage passives are two separate passives and provide an okay but not substantial increase to damage, especially at high levels.

6) The Rage (Berserker skill) that you're talking about is one of the defining archetypes of the class to be able to fight stronger at low HP. Exaltation only provides 60% bonus for the turn you enter the state, and since it's only one cast per turn you have to constantly switch back and forth to activate it every other turn.

7) If you FAIL to predict the death with Prevention your revival spell is now on cooldown for 5 turns.

8) You didn't mentioned Incandescence, which is probably the strongest tool the Eliotrope has at their disposal. This leads me to believe inexperience with the class.

Unfortunately I cannot take your feedback seriously. While I appreciate your concern, the class is either currently balanced or underpowered at higher level gameplay (especially PvM content).

• Mango

Ok, I'll talk about incandescence. Imagine you make an portal, and, let's say, a sacrier push and lock an enemy into an portal. Then the Eliotrope just cast the Incandescence and after the sword. The sad enemy can't do a thing for one turn, as he'll take more damage trying to escape or hit the eliatrope, and the locker just hit him with low cost spells if maybe get's a turn before the victim.

Two turns later, if the enemy survived enough of this punishment, you can start the combo again.

Looks solid to me, and even more solid after hero system comes.
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thimaster|2014-12-10 17:30:56

Ok, I'll talk about incandescence. Imagine you make an portal, and, let's say, a sacrier push and lock an enemy into an portal. Then the Eliotrope just cast the Incandescence and after the sword. The sad enemy can't do a thing for one turn, as he'll take more damage trying to escape or hit the eliatrope, and the locker just hit him with low cost spells if maybe get's a turn before the victim.

Two turns later, if the enemy survived enough of this punishment, you can start the combo again.

Looks solid to me, and even more solid after hero system comes.
I wouldn't put so much faith in unleashed sword unless you plan to go hybrid or mono air with mostly air spells (which I would only take the sword in a mono build). What your describing requires too much set up to be used effectively since most players will outright damage a target themselves versus wasting all their AP and MP just to set up for your single hit.

The best way (that I've found) to utilize Unleashed Blade is only feasible in a 12ap build. You cast a portal in front of your target, exalt, then cast siphon on your target to activate Siphoning, follow up with Etherial Burst to pull your target onto the portal and THEN used Unleashed Blade. You get more damage out of the spell this way.

But a more efficient way of dealing that damage would be to just forgo any portals at all, exalt, cast inca on your target, and tempest twice. Unleashed Blade is literally outclassed by flux and tempest because to make the most of the spell you need your target on a portal and a turn one setup for getting your target onto a portal to use it doesn't do as much damage as other spell combos.

~Kouett
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With proper support, Elios can do really well in drawn out fights. They have some great support and some powerful abilities. These abilities, however, come at a cost.

Great Damage -- >Terrible Resists / Delayed
Great Kiting Potential --> Terrible Resists (Can be blocked easily)
AP/MP --> 50% HP
WP regeneration --> Must get hit

Notice that the true strengths of the class forces the class to use risks. To get WP, you need to get hit. To deal massive damage, you need to get hit. To deal REAL massive damage - you have to stay close to the target (and get hit). Basically - this is a glass cannon class that encourages you to constantly be in battle. Especially in later content, I can easily see non-protected Eliotropes dying very quickly in battles resulting in being even worse than useless.

Moral of the Story: Elio's are not overpowered. Their strength is completely justified. I would rank them as one of the more interesting classes, but can easily argue that multiple classes that aren't even revamped yet are actually quite better and more useful all around. They have a fun niche - and just a warning. Be careful summoning the nerf hammer. It isn't very accurate and might have unforeseen repercussions...

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They dont have high damage outside of Exhaulted state.
Given that everything really powerful has some conditional limit.

Argents effect doesnt stack so you'll only use it once, its also only 18.75 Damage per AP.

Cataclysm only does 40 damage per AP once. The secondary effect doesn't stack so using it twice is only 60 Damage per AP....for 10 AP 2 MP at level 200. Every spell the Eliotrope has except for argent is 21+ damage per AP. Which means if you can spend your AP otherwise you pretty much always should then using Cataclysm twice.

Torrential Flux does 50.8 damage per AP, but you can only use it once.
Unleashed Blade is 35/45 damage per AP. I suppose if you count Exhaults 20% boost then its 56.25 damage per ap...on a 2 turn Cooldown. Torrential Flux in Exhault is 63.5 assuming you get them to start and end on the glyph.

Eliotropes have damage, but if they're playing it safe their damage doesn't compete with the higher DPT classes, if they play it risky? They're the most glass cannon outside of maybe Masqs?

Might not be powerful enough. However with all this mobility/range they have, can't really complain *yet*.

I don't really seem them getting a nerf.

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