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[1.77] General Feedback

By [Ankama]WAKFU - ADMINISTRATOR - August 17, 2022, 07:14:31
DevTracker AnkaTracker

Hello everyone,

Please post your feedback here.

First Ankama intervention

Hello,

Quick post in reaction to the enchantment posts : we'll be discussing the actual values again shortly following your feedback.

Keep in mind that beta usually is a place to gather feedback. We may or may not act on feedback depending on our final vision, but it's always better to give your feedback in a CALM, CONSTRUCTIVE and COMPREHENSIVE manner.
You're being read by professional people that work on the game, and above all, you're being read by other players from all over the world. The least you can do is discuss things in a CIVIL manner, unlike a few posts that have been moderated since.

The goal of the change was to increase (a lot) the values of the shards.
Shards are a central piece of all economy, they're generated by a huge part of the game's loot, they're an essential piece of the game. In theory, having a strong, stimulated marketplace makes all your loots have more worth. All the content you're running brings more kamas in, etc.

That aside, we didn't want a powercreep for 230 items yet. We thought that just reducing lvl 6-10 enchantment values was such a small change it wouldn't modify the way players would approach the game's content, and it would simply.
If we push this change, we're sure the game overall will be in a healthier situation in a few weeks or months.

I insist : optimization is not obligatory, it is an optional part of the game, you can run all the content of the game without having 40 lvl 11 sockets on your items. The game is about making progress at your own pace with your friends. When the enchantment was originally released in 2019, players that had full gears with lvl 10 sockets were more scarce.

Again, this is a place to discuss things with the team, we're open to talk about changes on the lvl 6-10 values if that's too extreme.

Siu.

See message in context
Reactions 86
Score : 10860

Any update on Sram/Fogger new design?

6 -4

It's not ready yet because we realized it takes a lot of time to implement on the dev side. We hope we can deliver these at some point this year.

Score : 274

I liked using my secondary run in combat, it was cool.

Not a fan of the new Air branch animations for Eniripsa.  Bring back the rain of sheep.

5 -5
Score : 13406

Hello Siu and Jr! 

  • Sinistro still buff enemy. Why Iop buff AP combo dont give AP to the enemy? What's the point of making Sinistro like that?
  • Underhand needs small improvement, >>>>  self-cast it on the Xelor.
  • I don't understand the damage reduction on Hammer and Hand, given that you made the class fully specialized on damage (positioning and support died after revamp).Osa сan buff AP  for the current turn like other classes that still have this ability, while still maintaining good support opportunities. It has become much more difficult for Xelor to give action points in the current turn (only if Xelor plays through Specialized Mechanisms passive and kills his Sinistro). And how to play a class through an Assimilation passive that requires killing an enemy to recover 2 WP if you limit offensive capabilities?
  • Devotion is unlocking too early. Its abuse is evident up to level 100 compared to classes that cannot speed themselves up by generating action points. Also, as I know, you have already reported a bug that allows you to bypass the limitation for Acceleration. If this change is intended to solve this bug, then it's a sad that the bug is solved in this way...
  • How about changing some passives that will take into account the effect "Switches places if the cell is occupied"? If you're nerfing Xelor's damage, give Xelor a chance to play differently not only damage. There are all prerequisites for this. Enable better positioning/support through passives.
14 -5
Score : 6467

I think selfcast underhand would make it too easy to escape lock.
As for devotion, I think they are trying to nerf xelors turn 1 power, not their power to buff allies.
I agree that course of time could use a buff tho, positioning and debuff xelors are kinda weak at the moment 

1 -1
Score : 725

The enchantment change is not cool.

Why are you nerfing all our builds just to make us pay more just to have the same stats again? 

Besides that, you'll be nerfing lvl 200 / 215 with the level 10 enchantments being nerfed. Getting past stasis 6 on 200 dungeons was already near impossible because our stats were too low, and now you're making them even lower. This is really hard to understand guys. We work super hard on our builds and this is the reward you give us.

1 huge step forward with the last update. 2 steps backwards with this one here.

11 0

Hello,

Quick post in reaction to the enchantment posts : we'll be discussing the actual values again shortly following your feedback.

Keep in mind that beta usually is a place to gather feedback. We may or may not act on feedback depending on our final vision, but it's always better to give your feedback in a CALM, CONSTRUCTIVE and COMPREHENSIVE manner.
You're being read by professional people that work on the game, and above all, you're being read by other players from all over the world. The least you can do is discuss things in a CIVIL manner, unlike a few posts that have been moderated since.

The goal of the change was to increase (a lot) the values of the shards.
Shards are a central piece of all economy, they're generated by a huge part of the game's loot, they're an essential piece of the game. In theory, having a strong, stimulated marketplace makes all your loots have more worth. All the content you're running brings more kamas in, etc.

That aside, we didn't want a powercreep for 230 items yet. We thought that just reducing lvl 6-10 enchantment values was such a small change it wouldn't modify the way players would approach the game's content, and it would simply.
If we push this change, we're sure the game overall will be in a healthier situation in a few weeks or months.

I insist : optimization is not obligatory, it is an optional part of the game, you can run all the content of the game without having 40 lvl 11 sockets on your items. The game is about making progress at your own pace with your friends. When the enchantment was originally released in 2019, players that had full gears with lvl 10 sockets were more scarce.

Again, this is a place to discuss things with the team, we're open to talk about changes on the lvl 6-10 values if that's too extreme.

Siu.

Score : 100

i am an adult with a job, getting lvl 10 shards was hard enough. Siu, i do NOT want to go back and redo things i already checked off as completed. Please think about your playerbase that has supported the game for years. TY

18 0
Score : 1337

To preface: these are simply my thoughts on the update, what can be made better, and why I believe this direction is not the correct one.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Please stop with this notion that everything must be changed at one point. Some things are better left off as is. Most players have enough struggle getting to level 10 shards (the amount of Kamas necessary to fully enchant gear is a lot once added up for all pieces of gear). Now, multiply this by 3 if you want you and your heroes well-built. Not everybody is the top 1% 24/7 player that can just brush off the fact that "The goal of the change was to increase (a lot) the values of the shards"... This is more harmful to casual players. Shards are primarily farmed by ALS, which again, is dominated by those "1%" players.

"I insist : optimization is not obligatory, it is an optional part of the game, you can run all the content of the game without having 40 lvl 11 sockets on your items." This is not a good argument. It is well-known that people will optimize themselves as much as possible because that is simply what is the drive to play the game. We want to have the best of the best; why would players settle for mediocrity? The drive for optimization is essentially what Wakfu is about. "Making progress at your own pace with friends" is inherently for that optimization.

So in the end, the players will be left with lower stats, more expensive shards (which are a core economy of the game), the 1% reign once again (namely those who control the shards market), and those of us who finally made efforts to catch up, will once again be punished for no reason. 

I advise you to reconsider these changes to enchantments.

24 0
Score : 725

Really good comment, couldn't agree more.

3 0
Score : 6467

Xelor:
Since we are getting nerfs for spells that are too strong I have some suggestion for possible buffs:

Clock is kinda weak and getting double damage on it is riduculously slow, so I think it could use a buff.
My suggestion is to give it +10% damage for every time theft stack you have.

Make sandglass not hit the center if cast on an ally.

Make underhand 2 per target. Xelor is a really weak positioner, since they can only move an enemy an even number of cells, so give them some more power for yeeting enemies away

Eniripsa:
The 3-5 AP eniripsa flasks are a bit slow but feel floaty.
I think that's because they go in a straight line so they look like throwing a paper plane.
Imo if you want to make them feel like they have weight, make them fly in an arc.

Also the windup where they hold up a flask for a bit takes a while.
My suggestion is that that animation only plays when you consume propagator, and make it slightly flashier so using propargator empowered flasks feels more important (maybe make some swirling effect as they empower the flask before they throw it?).

Unnatural remedies animation is nice, but please recolour it when we use it while under UA (maybe white and yellow), so we know we are turning it off.

Runes:
I think the optimisation argument would be valid, if the stat value of runes wasn't exponential with level just like the shard cost. With how it is now, there's a huge difference between lvl 9 and lvl 10 runes, making the number of runes and their colour almost more important then the item they are on (and that's ignoring the sublimations).

3 -1
Score : 274
Shards
I completely disagree with the stated goal of the shard change.  I have never been at a point where I had an excess of shards to the point where I’d be able to sell them to make kamas.  Lack of shards is continuously a persuasion for me not to bother obtaining new gearsets.

Taking a moment to think about it, I asked myself why shards even need to exist at all.  The first answer that comes to mind is all the items that have no value because nobody would even bother buying them.  Considering that, I still don’t see a reason for shards to exist.  All of the items too worthless to sell could just crush into powder- another resource I can’t sustain through my normal play.

I’m biased because I never liked the idea or concept of shards, even back when they were runes.  I never liked the idea that after going through the effort of obtaining the items for my build, that still wasn’t enough.  There’s nowhere I can go farm a satisfying (for me) amount of shards, so needing shards adds nothing to my game experience.  I just have to wait until I passively generate enough shards before I finally get the stats I worked hard rolling my gear for.

Just buying the shards isn’t a satisfactory answer for me anymore, because since the merge (the time I began actually being able to buy shards), there have been more and more “unfarmable” things added to the game, and I do not make enough kamas to afford them without going far out of my way.

The fact that you’re saying you don’t want to increase the power of 230 items makes me even more confused about the decision to change shards this way.  I don’t know who you believe will benefit from this change; I just know it’s not me or anyone I know personally.


The Rest of It
I’m tired of seeing the “we know it will be better for the game in the long run” justification.  Yes, it may be applicable and reasonable, but seeing it used to deflect feedback/criticism constantly makes it discouraging even to bother taking the time to write on the forums.  That justification being used all the time also makes it feel like the most loyal and committed players aren’t considered, because they are the ones suffering a majority of the time this is used.

This “optimization is not obligatory” take is quite baffling, because- echoing what others have said, “making progress with your friends” can only be towards that optimization.  Furthermore, logging into Wakfu in the first place isn’t obligatory either.  Although I dearly love the game, it’s been getting harder and harder to justify investing my time, energy, and money in a game that continues to blatantly disrespect that investment.

Yes, sometimes it’s necessary to change things that will end up harming the players who invested in those things, but absolutely nothing is done to soften the blow whenever that happens.  Every time, the players who are the most committed and invested the most end up suffering the most, but everyone is expected to just roll with the punches.  Everyone is expected to just accept the disrespect.  We don’t even get minor compensations.

For example, when an item flippantly gets nerfed (or what almost happened to Punt Boots, a complete change of the item’s stats/archetype), we’re left in a position where we have to accept our new stats we didn’t agree to, or rebuild to compensate because we find our new resist/mastery unacceptable.  The least that you could do is nothing, but a reasonable thing to do is to give everyone a couple of loot pots to farm our replacement items.

Or when a class changes so drastically it is unrecognizable from the class it was (RIP Rogue), it is entirely within your power to award compensation.  For example, an appropriate class change scroll to any account that has that class. The reasons why it doesn’t happen don’t matter.  What matters is that nothing is done in scenarios like these, which communicates that our time and investment in the game is not respected.  The point of compensation is to say “we see how you’ve been affected by these changes, and we want to make it up to you in some way”.

For the time being, I’m going to be a very casual player, because even though I dearly love Wakfu, I’m just so tired of investing enough to be punished for it without any consideration.
 
15 -7
Score : 526

Beta enchantment cost and growth:



Current Enchantment cost and growth:



Think there are 2 problems with beta enchantment:

1. Stat growth of max enchantment does not reflect the shard cost
-the stat gain for 9,216 shards(1.65mk value) is just 56 to 62(secondary) and 46 to 50(resist) is too low.
-To justify that cost, the max enchant stat value of 70(secondary) and 55(resist) would be more fitting.
Suggested changes above will be more rewarding for players who can afford it and less punishing for average players who are just trying to progress from s1 to s3 in their level range.

I feel Beta changes is rooted in some under-estimation of the stat requirement to progress from  s1 to s3 dungeon and an overreaction to stagnate player progress.




2. Astronomical kama cost of 12,415 shards per socket
This cost is very high. Cost of shards fluctuates from 130(low) 180(average) to 225(high), thus bringing the cost of maxing a single lv.11 socket to 1,613,950(low) 2,234,700(average) 2,793,375(high)


Here's list of activities player use to generate kama:
-a player with 3 characters doing 6 times lv.230 s1 dailies a week. Putting everything on market, only 15% will sell, and will generate only 800kk~1.8m per week. +600kk if including all crafting materials + frag
-a player with 3 characters doing a 30min+ s3 lv230 dungeon will only generate 500kk~1.2m per run (if it sells?)
-farming 30min 216+ mobs for green + white materials to sell is only making less than 1.8m(if the price isn't undercut by another seller)
-Rushu runs is 1.2m+ per character, "optimization is not obligatory " so cant do this
-heard 230 ultimate rift is profitable, " optimization is not obligatory " so cant do this
-3000 ogrines only cost 4m~5m, why just 2 sockets in a gear cost more than 3000 ogrine? Is there plans to monetize shards?

Players are struggling to buy 16m+ gears already, we don't need another artificial kama sink. I do hope wakfu becomes a game that respects players' time and effort.

 
15 -10
Score : 6467

Honestly i like the idea of high level runes not being worth their price as it normalises having imperfect builds

0 -3

Hi,

Following your feedback, we'll be reverting the devotion change.
We eventually want to apply deeper changes on Xelor to make more positive things, but that will come later down the road, as the 1.77 patch is focused on other things. We may still do more slight changes, as a few players rightfully pointed out, there are too many 4 AP spells in the fire tree.

We'll also make changes on the lvl 11 enchantment point.
We still want to introduce the lvl 11 in the game. We feel like the time is right, we also buffed the generation a lot in the 1.76 patch with the new ranking formula. And again, it will be profitable for all in the long run.
But values are subject to change. Be it the cost or the lvl 6-11 bonus values.

You will have more news about it next week.

Have a good weekend, we hope you will be enjoying the beta.

Score : 13406

Good evening!

This news causes a storm of emotions that there are plans to make deeper changes on Xelor to make more positive things. For this, there are all the prerequisites laid down in the revamp (which at least brought unique spells and mechanics (for example, greatly improved the concept of the current hour or a lot tool for effect "Switches places if the cell is occupied) But courage, because there are many people who hate Xelor or do not take into account the need for other playstyles for this class besides damage. I don't know if virtual words can convey the whole spectrum of gratitude, but thank you very much!

There was an idea on the French forum how to solve the problem with "there are too many 4 AP spells in the fire tree." by Omicron-Z#5014 :

Spoiler (click here to show spoiler)

Pourquoi ne pas simplement avoir interverti les effets d'Aiguille et de Poussière ? 'Aiguille coûte 5 PA et gagne 2 portée min et max à chaque lancer' et 'Poussière redonne 4 PA si la cible est tuée'.

If you don't have time to make big changes to Xelor's identity now, then this is the best solution.
Hand spell takes over the effect of Dust spell and become 5 AP cost
and Dust takes the effect of Hand, and restores 4 AP at the cost of 4 AP with the current adjustments to the base damage numbers for 1.77 patch.

And thank you very much again ~ 
8 -3
Score : 132

I would like to understand the purpose of nerfing the sadida Prayer passive? I understand making the wp recovery innate as sadida does not currently have 1 like other classes, but the rework of the armor given seems like an unnecessary nerf. For armor sadidas this is effectively reducing their armor given throughout the fight by 30% which is a HUGE amount, and even following the requirements it is still -10% armor given from current. Since there is only a removal of effects from this passive and no gain its basically making another dead passive in the sadidas kit and forcing them into an even more specific playstyle than they already are. I would suggest adding another secondary effect to the passive and reverting it back to 20% armor given without condition. Otherwise you should just remove the passive as a whole and make it something else. Many people only used it for the wp regen, so if you choose to make that innate the passive basically has no purpose.

0 0

Hello,

We will be reworking this passive to make it more powerful and interesting for next beta. It was a quick draft made just before the beta happened, we quickly changed it in order to make the WP regen innate (which is a good change) and let the passive be that way but it's totally work in progress.

Score : 16

the passive "dynamo" in huppermage has 50 elemental resistance with heart of fire in Beta server, while it has 80 elemental resistance right now. It's not listed in the changelog, is it a mistake or it really is a change? If it's really a change, what's the reason behind the change? wakfu has done nothing but nerf huppermage. Given the fact that low QB is currently the meta for huppermage,  with the lower value of enchantment,  it loses 30~50 resistance for all levels below 230. 

1 0

Hello,

It was an unintended change, it will be back to 80 resistance in the next beta update.

Score : 1200

Hello

1- Some players miss a pet with a distance zone domain, it's strange to see so many pets (many with repeated bonuses and others very useless) and none with this bonus. Is there any reason behind this? Or do you have plans to add a pet like this?

2 - With the many ''small'' changes in the classes, do you not plan to make any in cra?
for example your fire skills that were very limited (example of the explosive arrow with only 1 USE per turn)

3 -  Is there a possibility that in the next reworks the distance zone build will come out of the oblivion zone in the classes?
Many players miss having a GOOD class for distance-zone build, there are few possible classes to follow this build and these few classes don't do it at all well, either because of limitations, very few skills or really bad skills compared to others.

Would the new class that will come in the future be aimed at a character with zone damage and distance?

5 0
Score : 589

Could someone tell me that's generally how it works and that each class has been reworked multiple times in the last 10 years?

1 0
Score : 6467

Well that's generally how it works, yes.
Each class has been reworked multiple times in the last 10 years

2 0
Score : -1070

Not all Eniripsas animations went good, especially Revive (I think it's worse than before), having in mind that it's one of main eni spells it's really feels bad.

Fire branch animations are really cool, I think this direction is something we are looking for.
Cnsidering that water branch is kinda main for healer role. Water is only 50/50 not sure if like it or not.
And last Air branch, Only fear flask made it look cool, throwing flasks seems weird and unnatural, very bad animations. Like somebody have mentioned it seems like throwing paper at enemies, it have bad design (it could be better, something like throw flask, and it explodes or something).

And hell we all disappointed that we don't get new model of coney, that one which we got for years is old, not fun, we want something cooler.

So Eniripsa is only half baked.

2 -3
Score : 6467

Yeah fire spells look great, especially the casting part

0 -1
Score : 6467

I actually have a slight problem with the water animations
Fire spells are marks - they draw a mark with the brush: Checks out
Air spells are flasks - they chuck bottles of diseases: Checks out
Water spells are words - they conjure water with their wand: ???

I think it would be nice if eniripsas made some noise when you cast water spells, since they are called healing WORDS. Why are they just spashing water around?

2 -2
Score : 10860

I agree, maybe some sort of whisper animation, that "calm down" emote also works out, blow kiss...

0 -1
Score : 747

Not sure where to put this and I'm hoping it's just an oversight, but the change to Sadida WP generation (which is a fantastic idea and I'm delighted to see it) is using what I believe is the level 1 passive rate instead of level 2. Which is to say... it's 1 WP every 3 turns instead of every 2, which is pretty agonizing by the current standard.

I'm assuming it's not intended and probably just the sort of thing that goes wrong on an early beta, but I wanted to make sure it was mentioned o/

1 0
Score : 6467
[Siu]|2022-08-19 20:41:25
Hello,

We will be reworking this passive to make it more powerful and interesting for next beta. It was a quick draft made just before the beta happened, we quickly changed it in order to make the WP regen innate (which is a good change) and let the passive be that way but it's totally work in progress.
0 -1
Score : 1337

1. I like the new Eniripsa animations, especially those of the Fire Branch. I think that they could be sped up just a little bit more if possible, if not, it should be ok.

2. I also like the group inventory option. It is so great to have when farming a mob and you want your heroes to have their inventories clean.

3. I still don't agree with the 11th level shards, nor do I agree with ~12716 (I forgot the exact value) needed for maximum level BEFORE the 11th level. Again, a sink that is not necessary at all. Stat drop is still annoying, I just checked beta so I don't know if it was buffed yet.

4 0
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