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[1.69] Class Balancing: Rogue

By [Ankama]WAKFU - ADMINISTRATOR - August 14, 2020, 07:56:08
DevTracker AnkaTracker

Hello everyone,

Please post your feedback here.

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First Ankama intervention

Hello,

We're going to make changes to improve some of the aspects of the class that have been raised here. Along those lines: improvements on class damage, return of the ability to immunize an ally to bomb damage, debug/return of Longsword... potentially new passives as well.

I'd like to hear your opinion on these matters:

  1. Scope: Loses the range bonus, converts melee mastery into distance mastery : the mastery is lost (+ doesn't work with brutality, just in case)
  2. Boot: is back to the way it used to be, without the +combo
  3. Claw: does this spell feel interesting, or do you feel like you use it often ?

Have a nice day,

Siu
See message in context
Reactions 129
Score : 4266

This was so damn abrupt.

I'll start by saying, I don't like evolved gadgets new passive. I very much need the old passive since Rogues original range is very low. Also, I don't think Crit is a great addition to the class anyways. I like the idea of Rogue having control over every element it uses in battle, Crit is the definition of random. It's very interesting to have a DD that doesn't depend on crit in a game full of it.

If you're going to try to make direct damage Rogue more Viable, I'd say deal with the elephant in the room first. There is zero synergy between Air and Earth, that isn't bombs. How are you going to make direct damage rogue viable but reduce control(I.E bombs).

I'd say remove the -wp from air bomb for something more melee oriented and have the -wp be a trigger on another spell. Because reducing -WP in large quantity will never be appreciated by the player in PvE(Maybe not even pvp). Perhaps increasing the amount of bombs being able to be placed with suffocating would help too. Because it's just weak right now.

I like that you changed paralyzing bombs to fire, -mp is very useful for both Ranged and Melee Rogue.

Is it possible we can get a spell that influences Rogue's bomb resist more than barbed fire? I want to hit it and increase it more than 100 resist because at high stasis, It'll be blown up with only 100 additional due to mobs damage increasing WAYY too much.

Minor quality of life , in the description of Boombot and Dynamite I'd like there to be some type of indicator that "This spell is now indirect"

Powderwall, There is a passive I'd like to see with this. I'd like to see if it would be possible to increase it's damage and make it more immediate. Like triggering at the start of the mobs turn and trigger the second trigger at the start of rogues next turn then disappearing. Powderwall may be lost in the dust with these tweaks.

HUGE quality of life. Let bombs explode indirect and not trigger mechanics. Off the top of my head I can tell you Blight and Badger both trigger the mechanics despite it being indirect.( From boombot or dynamite)
 
The -Heal was Rogues only niche. Then you removed it. What does this class have now? At this rate, the rebalance will become a revamp.

Is it possible piercing shot can take off a percentage of armor instead of a flat amount? For example - Connection next hit removes 30% armor

Edit: Bomber fan has the exact same problem, Staff did. It's counter productive. Wouldn't it make more sense to reduce direct damage not from bombs? or Short term Damage being reduced rather than countering the exact gameplay it's trying to enhance.

Edit 2: After lots of discussion on discord, what I meant by crit passive feels almost mandatory for direct damage rogue without bombs. Far too strong of a specialization in one direction. I think if you're going to make a crit passive, you outta have a drawback for how it's used in that context.

For example, Iops use critical mastery because they have the critical passive, it's generally more useful for them to just use it. While Feca's get critical despite glyphs not using critical due to wanting the additional base damage. I want to swing towards Feca's side of things but with a considerable more focus on the I want BBQ ribs to critical.

While if you make the crit passive, every rogue will build critical mastery on their direct damage rogue. Reducing build variety.

5 -4
Reply
Score : 87

This is the best feedback you'll get:
STOP making changes you DO NOT announce and STOP not making the changes you DO.
AT LEAST, prioritize those changes you DO announce.
Game Over

29 -2
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Score : 5018

+100%

8 -2
Score : 62

So im surprised there isnt anything in this game that lets you try out a character at max lvl kind of like world of war craft, before selecting a character. Especially when it comes to using character change tokens because they are deffinatly not cheap, and i want to know what im going to be dealing with before wasting 30 dollars to end up having a garbage broken class. As for rogue i dont think that 50% damage while in line with an enemy is enough, it should be 50% damage period if your going to take away so much damage from bombs for having that passive.

4 -4
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Score : 34

I was anxiously waiting for some of the announced revamps, just to have an update that no one asked about mineral tower and a revamp totally unannounced, of a class that was already viable and you could have just changed air spells value, maybe added a way to give up some damage to increasse the bombs resist so they don't instantly die at high lvl dungeons.

I am utterly disapointed and frustrated. Let's hope next change is not only something we want, but also something they already promissed.

1 -1
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Score : 1663

I'm enjoying the rework to be honest! There are a few things that don't work but I'm sure that'll get fixed in future betas (like dynamite's 10 combo). Giving crit rogue a way to actually get crit chance would be nice, and dagger rogue could use maybe a little help since the damage on Barbequed Ribs and Slap Shot were nerfed.

Also can we make fugitive actually a good passive? Scope's already getting better since it doesnt nerf bomb range anymore, but it could use some work too... lol

EDIT: alright I'm not a game designer but now that I've done a dungeon with this version... I'm sure whatever I'd want to say has already been said, but damage is really bad either way you go. Crit with daggers or guns is mediocre at best and bombs have been nerfed into the ground with less combo, less combo generation, and lower base damage... that's really bad. Mobility took a hit, boot's 2mp connection is very useful and it'd be great to have that back... and while you can position other things than bombs now, the amount of positioning you can do with your bombs has actually decreased... I need more utility and damage that will actually feel satisfying after setting up.

5 -1
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Score : -2659

well im happy to see a balance on rogue thats a proof about"Rogue was broken".i just checked but i should read first to understand "what will be changed" then i can edit this post to give support. i still believe you should remake the rogue with "1 bomb spell in spellbar" to summon and switch element system like a virulent treacherose sidekick to interact with (fire earth and air) bombs in combat zone and combat styles instead of connection system because connection system really forces players to add similar kind attacks like b.ribs and slap which not supportive "as slap"  not to steal hp when b.ribs wasnt on spellbar. 
Edited:My suggestions are green font color
well i shoud say that you have buff direct attacks and debuff bombs that a better idea than current rogue.
i still believe  boomearang must be "air-area" as a 5th spell.
About bomb specialities (-mp,-wp,-range): 
They must be linked to active spells like kaboom,smoke bombs or etc. 
Only interacted bomb should gain this speciality because you want rogue to use bombs but 
this specialities cause problem against boss to gain infinite mps,ranges at each +4 rounds.
You should add an area spell or passives to protect allies from aoe bomb damage
examples:
you can add "resistance decrease of bomb element" after aoe detonate.
you can add a passive to give less damages to opponents but -100 bomb element resistance(s) to allies in under aoe detonates


Elemental Spells

Barbed Fire
No longer affects bombs
Range is now 1-5 (previously 3-5)
Increased damage

Blinding Bomb -> Paralyzing Bomb
Range is now 1-5 unmodifiable (previously 1-6)
Deals slightly less damage
Removes MP instead of Range: you could add  "%15-30 incure per bomb if 3 bomb limits" or "-30 non-fire element resistance" or "Scalded"

Execution
AP cost is now 5 (up from 2)
Now limited to 1 use per turn
Damage doubled if a bomb was destroyed by an opponent on the previous turn
You could add :+1 level execution if a bomb was destroyed by an opponent on the previous turn

Piercing Shot
Fire damage no longer increases based on the amount of WP
Fire damage has been increased accordingly
 i hope you removed "wp<6wp" usage condition

Machine Gun
Range is now 2-4
The spell requires a target
Earth damage is now single-target and has been increased
The Rogue moves back 2 cells

Blunderbuss
The spell no longer increases bomb combos
Earth damage has been increased
 
Paralyzing Bomb -> Blinding Bomb
Range is now 1-5 modifiable (previously 1-6 unmodifiable)
Straight-line casting, no line of sight
Removes Range instead of MP. extra damage "removes %25 of armor from opponent(s)" instead of Piercing shot's armor removal or resist break non element earth

Pulsar
Increased Earth damage
The Rogue loses all their MP. You can add; pushes opponents 2-3 tiles away around centre point of spell target like cra ,beacon and air spells
No longer has an alternative effect if cast at start of turn



Suffocating Bomb
Range is now 1-3 unmodifiable (previously 1-6 unmodifiable)
Increased damage
You can add "removes 10 forcewill" or "removes lock"  instead of wp.
Non-Elemental Spells


Ruse
Switches places with a fighter (not necessarily a bomb)
nah i didnt like this idea ,similar to escapist or boot.
you can add -2 range or -2 wp or mp -2 mp to targets under each bomb detonate

Boot
Moves the fighter (not necessarily a bomb)
Now limited to 1 use per turn
i didnt like this idea either ,we are not panda.read my bomboot idea below
you can add -2 range or -2 wp or mp -2 mp to targets under each bomb detonate
Removes Connection +2 MP

Boombot
Boombots have the Reconversion spell by default
Reconversion can no longer extend the Boombot's bomb limit (3 bombs per type)
Bomboot has got 2AP and 10 mp
Boombot must be an Wp usage active spell  which converts a summoned bomb into "bomboot" to change "bomb(own) position by mp"  without cooldown but 1 usage per round and bomboot (converted bomb) should use options:
  "carry targets (other bomb or ally,can include enemy)" by 1 mp,"throw targets" by 1 mp, "repair a bomb's hp" by 1 AP or "get 100 resist" by 2 AP,  "powder wall" to AOE by 2 AP, "Detonate". "turns into bomb".
"Turns into bomb" action ends its turn;
"Detonate" action ends its turn and bomboot doesnt turn into bomb and leave the battle.
"Powder wall" bomboot turns into bomb and creates a powder wall between aligned bombs and end turn.


Dynamite (Is now a passive)
Bombs explode when destroyed
If a bomb explodes in this way, it gains 10 Combo before exploding
most useless spell to add as passive.

New active – Magnet
2 WP / 1-4 Range
Must target a bomb
Attracts aligned targets to the bomb by 2 cells (not limited by distance)
1 use per turn
There is already quest spell to attract and gives lock to targets.
You should add a speciality to interacted bomb (or all bombs around)  to switch rogue's lock and armor to bomb's lock and armor till start of rogue next turn. 
bomb(s) and rogue should be stabilized  at this turn by spell and bomb locks opponents around of it if enough lock. 

 
Smoke Bombs
Range is now 0-3
Removes current effects
Applies a barrier to ranged damage (1 turn)
3 turns to recharge
All bombs blocks sight of lines of opponents  at this turn 
Passives

Boomarogue
No longer unlocks Reconversion
Cost of Boombot becomes 1 AP and 1 WP

Evolved Gadgets
Range bonus removed from non-elemental spells
-3 Control
15% damage inflicted on critical hit

Bomber Fan
No longer increases passive Combo generation
Bombs lose 75 Elemental Resistance
This passive could be better if it protects allies under detonations with a -XXX  damage inflicted of direct aoe damages.

Scope
No longer changes the Range of bomb spells

Rogue Master
Dodge bonus is now 100% of the Rogue's level
What about lock?

Ka-Boom
Previous effects removed
+5 Combo to bombs placed
Bombs explode one turn after detonation

New Passives

Surprise Shot
At start of turn
Connection: +50% damage inflicted on aligned targets
Connection: -100% damage inflicted by bombs

Explobomb
Max Combo: -5
Each bomb that explodes gives the Rogue a bonus (15% damage inflicted; 2 turns)
Do you meant , bombs wont damage by detonate but decrease %15 direct damages for each bomb?
Fireworks LOL


Escapist
At end of turn
The Rogue switches places with the last bomb placed
this is nice but old idea ,could stay as ruse.

 

need be a passive to be invulnerable while rogue is on powder wall with another negative condition.

0 -10
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Score : 623

I have some serious issues with this first iteration.

Damage:

The straight removal of increases to combo generation has effectively split my T2 and T3 damage in half. My damage with the level 215 rogue I put together on the beta is similar in strength to my live rogue’s level 155 set. I understand reducing the damage to some degree, but this is excessive. I feel hard capping bombs at a max of 3 per type should of be sufficient at curbing the rogue’s ability to one-turn bosses. As a bomb rogue it no longer feels worth the hassle of even bothering, when more straight forward classes can accomplish similar if not better results with far more ease. Also, if were being honest, rogue’s one-turning certain bosses is their only call to fame. I’m not saying it shouldn’t have been removed, but it would be nice if you gave rogues their own niche, preferably not making them a second panda.

Positioning:

While it’s nice that rogues are getting more ways to move other entities, the spells overlap with my ability to move bombs. Because of how vulnerable bombs are currently rogues have to summon them away from the action to coddle them till detonation. When it comes time for detonation, I have to use my positioning spells to get my bombs in place, so due to casting limits and cooldowns I would rarely be able to capitalized on the ability to move other entities. It’s actually worse now since boot can only be used once, and I can’t just say to increase the cast limit because then it would be completely superior to panda’s karchamrak.

AOE Rogue:

These changes offer a lot of new options and tactics for single target rogues but does little, but nerf AOE rogues into the ground. Currently AOE rogue just means bomb rogue, and while currently bomb rogues don’t have that many options at their disposal besides bombs, it was fine because of the burst potential. With our burst potential, early on, now in the toilet we have nothing really. It is no longer worth playing a bomb rogue. I feel adding push and pull effects to various AOE spells could at least help make it more interesting to play an AOE rogue, but it probably wouldn’t help its efficacy as much as a damage increase would.

Edit: Also with the removal of the old dynamite/ka-boom we are missing a way of protecting an ally from our bombs which further hurts the AOE rogue.

Dynamite:

So, with the changes from bomber fan, and dynamite being the only way to get high combo T2 and T3, it seems you’re encouraging this new bomb play style where instead of setting up and detonating on our turn, we throw our bombs into the fray to be destroyed detonating them indirectly. I’m really not a fan of this because if I’m doing this in hopes that an enemy destroys a bomb it ruins the strategy aspect of the class, and becomes this inefficient rng mess were I toss my bombs out, cross my fingers, and hope specific enemies move where I want them, and destroy a specific bomb. If the idea was that allies would be the ones to handle it, then this goes against the goal of making rogues more independent because I need to rely on allies to not only set everything up for me, but they’re also responsible for detonation. With this playstyle it’s my allies playing rogue, the rogue itself is just a bomb dispensary. 

Bomb survival:

I’m pretty disappointed that not only did this update not address the problem of bomb survival, it actually made it worse. Our bomb’s vulnerability is the core reason we perform so poorly in a lot of content since currently losing a single bomb can cause you to lose upwards of 50% to 70% of damage depending on the strategy used. Instead of making barbed fires a better bomb survival tool you gutted that functionality, and instead of improving their resist you added a resist nerf to bomber fan. I would like to suggest getting rid of the useless barrier of smoke bombs, and change it to a spell that makes a bomb invincible for a turn. You could possibly even use that old idea you mentioned of an invisibility glyph, that would be pretty neat.

5 -1
Reply
Score : 187

Hello. I had a hard time finding the current iteration of rogue to be fun. Then I changed my play style.

I focused on distance and single target using scope passive.

I feel the rogue as is is very fun.

The only issue being the clunkiness of connections. Especially with long sword.

Execution NEEDS to stay to ap.Currently it’s a very good 2ap Filler that allows me to do decent damage on my piercing shot turn.

My character focuses on heavy critical mastery and 0 crit Chance. Boomerang boomer boomerang.

Boomerang piercing shot execution.

This is my bread and butter. Bombs are utilized to highlight this gameplay.

I would have been extremely happy.. if you left every EXACTLY as is.. but made Longsword “carries over the last two connections”

For instance.. using longsword with anything other than boomerang doesn’t work the way I wish it did.

I’d love to be able to say.. slap shot, boomerang, longsword bbq ribs.

As it is now.. slap shot and bbq ribs are only effective on their own.

Using long sword in junction with boomerang connections could push DD ROGUES to the level we want.

Boomerang, longsword—(ribs, execution, pulsar, etc)

Or even.. boomerang longsword longsword.
Smokeboms boomerang longsword crossfire

By allowing longsword to carry the last two connections, you’ve now completely opened up the ability to play dd rogue without hindering any other build types.

Love the idea of smoke bombs allowing powder water to block line of site

I would very much hate for the cost of execution to change.

In its current state.

It’s a good filler and effective against monsters that require multiple hits.

Takes time to build damage.. but becomes worth the build up overtime.

Turning execution into 5 ap one time use.. literally just means you have two piercing shots..

Why? Why do this? Changing the cost and times used on this spell ruins execution and it no longer fits in any deck.

2 -1
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Score : 5224

Before my Rogue feedback I'll be real here, that Rogue tweaks being the frontline of the 1.69? Bad- no, TERRIBLE idea! I get that the Mask revamp will be coming eventually but to post the Rogue as a frontline really doesn't give any assurance for Masks mains cuz, if it was the Xelor in that position, I would feel like you're not really taking my class that serious if you gonna focus first in some other class that wasn't even in the roadmap to begin with.. Just saying..

Now about the Rogue, no, I don't like it, I don't like it AT ALL.. Removing the Combo Bonuss made bombs weaker, it's nice that now there's a way to make a """bombless""" (at least not as main source of damage) build but weakening the bomb build wasn't needed for that.. Also, why, in the name of the great XELOR'S GRANDFATHER'S CLOCK you gave them Critical Damage in the Evolved Gadgets if the class itself has no way to increase it's own %Crit?! Just increasing the raw damage would had been MUCH better.. THe class also still has the problem that some of it's skill are confusing and clunky, lemme go in detail

  • Boomerang Dagger changing the critical chance is just not usable at all.. I mean, you can exploit that by having 0% and then using it but.. Why would you do that? ANd if you have high crits there's no point for this skill..
  • Evanescence two-turns cooldown is still quite harsh.. The skill cost a WP, the movement needs to be precise and aligned and yet you can use it only once every two turns? Isn't having that many restrictions kinda too rough?
  • Execution.. Just one use per turn?.. Why tho'?.. And now Rogue doesn't have a reliable 2AP spell on Fire branch, nice!
I am so tired..
7 -2
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Score : 5018

I feel U bro 

1 -1
Score : 292

Why do this? I don't recall the class being on the list of classes needing reworking. This was not mentioned in the devblog. This is SO random and unnecessary.  My main damage dealer is a Rouge, and I liked it exactly the way it was, if this is half as bad as these comments are making it sound, I might be having to look at making a new DD in another class.

2 -2
Reply
Score : 267

Hey siu!! this is my feedback: 

I'm very glad that you've finally decide tweak the rogue :y, these changes seems pretty good, it is going on the right way, and i have a lot of suggestions. 

First, i want to talk about powder wall, now that we can't use spells to gain combo now requires a lot of turns to have a good powder wall glyph, so here is my suggestion: 

Powder wall:
No longer requires a spell to be triggered, at the end of rogue's turn a powder wall appears between every aligned bomb (with the current restriction of cells): -56HP (light) + %combo of the bombs that triggered powder wall (if one bomb have 20 combo it's 20% damage to powder wall), no longer apply a debuff. 

Powder wall (spell):
Cost: 2ap 1wp 
Places a powder wall (this time with the targeted bomb debuff)
So with the spell you can place a powder wall and then explode in the same turn.

Bomb rogue: 
I would like to have bombs on the third bar :v 
and a passive to gain combo easier:
Apassivetogaincomboeasier:
Increase by 1 (or 2) the combo gained every turn  
Powder wall can't increase it's damage more than 40% 

Melee rogue: 
I don't have any problem with melee rogue, maybe he could steal things like %CH because rogue don't have a passive to gain it (if you move bombs to the third bar (pls do it :'v) it can be a new spell (or add longsword to air spells))

%CHpassiveforrogue: 
At the start of the turn: +20%ch, -5% per bomb in the field

Distance rogue:
Distance rogue lacks of good spells, more specifically AoE distance rogue, this can be solved adding bombs to third bar, okno :vxd, i mean yes but it isn't needed. 

Crossfire: 
Now that smoke bombs no longer increase fire spells size, crossfire can be an AoE spell with the area of smoke bombs (i will delete his effect on the bombs and increase the damage, now that rogue have magnet and can move enemies) 

tbh, i liked old smoke bombs but ok :'v  

Blaam: 
Now that no longer bring combo, maybe it could be casted out of a straight line in a cross area (i'm not sure if this is the way to say it so like xelor's AoE spells), btw increase it's damage a little bit more.

Boomerang dagger: 
Delete the connection pls :'v, you can just add a -20%CH debuff on the rogue like hupper tears 

Pulsar: 
I don't like the idea of pulsar, maybe it can steal %fd in AoE, but it's ok. 

NewearthAoEspellifsiumovesbombstothethirdbar(plsdoit:'v) 
Coste: 5AP         1-5 range (straight line or diagonal) (1 use per turn)
-130HP (Earth)(AoE, like old machine gun area in straight line and smoke bombs crossfire area in diagonal) 
Steals 1MP 

Active spells: 
Smoke bombs: 
It's true that rogue needs a defensive spell but not 107 barrier ;:v, it can be more interesting like an immune to the bombs (or maybe invisible bombs o.o) 

Passive spells:
Evolved gadgets: 
-3 control is too much, make it -2 control 

New passives ideas: 
Bomber man: 
20% damage inflicted  
the limit of bombs is 2 instead of 3 

Minesweeper: 
Reduce by 1AP the cost of the bombs, bombs can't have more than 10 of combo 

Chain explosion: 
When one bomb explode the other bombs (that aren't in the area) gains 4 combo (1 time per turn) 

and that's all for now :v thanks for read 
att: Mag 

:v

0 -3
Reply
Score : 187

Boomerang reverse crit is actually AMAZING!

You can stack the hell out of critical mastery.. and use boomerang.. this also allows you to fully use the sublimation that turns crit mastery into elemental mastery.

Boomerang connection is the only reason I didn’t buy a class change scroll after the update..

BOOMERANG crit reversal is probably my favorite thing about this class

2 -5
Reply
Score : 5224

Yeah, no.. That's sound terribly awkward and situational to the point I am wondering myself how did you ever found that "AMAZING!"..

So to crit you need to use that first? It's a 4AP spell.. It isn't so viable to use it so frequently unless you're planning a burst turn, on top of that it's AoE Distance which doesn't cope well with Melee Rogues AND you can't effectively use the Barbecue Ribs connection with that set-up since you can't use a Boomerang Dagger before the second cast of Barbecue Ribs or else you'll cut the connection that triples it's damage meaning your Barbecue Ribs connection can never crit which is a waste of Critical Mastery.. Also, if you don't have that specific Sublimation what you end up with is a Rogue with 0% criticals but with a lot of Critical Mastery that will only go into use after the Boomerang Dagger which, again, costs 4AP..

It -might- be good at end game once you have all your gear and stuff but in early to mid-game it isn't viable at all.. Unless you're some Richie Rich that can afford that sublimation to every gear you buy I suppose..

1 -1
Score : 1220

This post is dedicated to discussing the spells we see in the beta. I'll reply to this post with a few ideas for changing Rogue in beta for anyone interested.

A lot of the non-bomb elemental spells have improved bombless Rogue in exchange for taking away their bomb-support functionality from bomber Rogue. I like the theme of Execution, giving Rogue options to deal direct damage without relying on bombs, but I don't like the theme of Blunderbuss, a spell whose only purpose is dealing damage with no other function.

I'll miss Machine Gun having 1 minimum range for escaping lock zones, but doubling the travel distance makes it useful for completing a getaway rather than starting one. I'll also miss this being an area spell.

One thing I would love for Machine Gun would be diagonal casting, with the travel distance being diagonal movement. Being able to push yourself diagonally would mean being able to squeeze through the corners of walls or being surrounded by two big sweaty Iops. I would ask the same for Claw, to be able to cast it diagonally to grapple while squeezing between the same two Iops standing diagonally apart from each other while adjacent to you.

Surprise Shot has taken the theme of the current version of Pulsar and made it available to everyone that isn't Cross Fire. I would like to see Surprise Shot apply to both linear and diagonal spells.

Since Dynamite became a passive spell, I'd like to see Powder Wall also become a passive spell so its setup isn't an additional cost on top of activation.

Fugitive desperately needs to not be terrible. Runaway is much better for fulfilling the function of escaping the fray, since you can control where your newest bomb is positioned by throwing one down and ending your turn.

I like how some of the passives can be used together. Bomber Fan may debuff resistance of your bombs, but Dynamite benefits from your bombs being easier to kill. Ka-Boom also pairs nicely with Dynamite by using two casts of Detonation, spending 2 AP, to apply a total of 10 Combo; if you detonate by shooting your own bomb to kill it, Dynamite applies another 10 Combo and a chain reaction occurs. Unfortunately, both of these combinations of passives favor a distance build, which means requiring Scope.

1 -1
Reply
Score : 1220

Here's some of my ideas on Rogue, based on the beta:

Rogue often plays in medium range. I want a passive spell that increases the max range affected by your melee mastery from 2 to 4 for non-bomb elemental spells. Alternatively, increase the max range affected by your melee mastery by your range stat--if your range stat is +3, your melee mastery would affect non-bomb damage dealt to targets at 5 range.

Ka-Boom causing delayed detonation at the start of your upcoming turn reverts the problem with bombs when they had charges. Rogue is already enormously disadvantaged against enemy map manipulators. I would change the delayed detonation from occuring at the start of your upcoming turn to activating at the end of your upcoming turn, giving you the whole turn to figure out how to reposition your bombs if enemies have repositioned them.

Blunderbuss could deal increased damage to your own bombs to pair with Dynamite for hitting enemies in the area while triggering Dynamite to detonate your bombs in a chain reaction with the 10 Combo buff. Alternatively, apply a Connection effect to yourself which buffs force of will so you can detonate your bombs with increased potency of inflicting stat loss.

This may not be intentional, but I want Dynamite in any form to apply its Combo buff simultaneously among all affected bombs before the triggered detonation occurs. Currently, if multiple of your bombs have Dynamite in either the active special or passive form are destroyed by damage by the same attack, only the "first" bomb to be destroyed gets the Combo buff. The change I want is for Dynamite as a passive spell to apply the 10 Combo simultaneously among all bombs destroyed by damage from the same attack. You would be able to Pulsar two or more of your bombs to death, and each of those bombs would get +10 Combo before any of them detonate.

If I were to fix the above issue, I would change Dynamite to function similarly to Clinging to Life. An area attack would destroy (by damage) any amount of your bombs, then those bombs would enter Clinging to Life. The bombs would get their 10 Combo at this point. After the attack has resolved and no other effects occur, the bombs would detonate due to Dynamite.

0 -1

Hello,

We're going to make changes to improve some of the aspects of the class that have been raised here. Along those lines: improvements on class damage, return of the ability to immunize an ally to bomb damage, debug/return of Longsword... potentially new passives as well.

I'd like to hear your opinion on these matters:

  1. Scope: Loses the range bonus, converts melee mastery into distance mastery : the mastery is lost (+ doesn't work with brutality, just in case)
  2. Boot: is back to the way it used to be, without the +combo
  3. Claw: does this spell feel interesting, or do you feel like you use it often ?

Have a nice day,

Siu
Reply
Score : -825
  1. Nice. I wanna try it.
  2. Fair enough
  3. Spell is unusable. I never seen anyone picked it in deck and i never pick it as well
0 -3
Score : 5087

Scope: Sounds interesting, definitely better then the current passive since if you want to use it you have to swap out literally your whole build. This way you can just build melee and choose what range to be before each fight, sounds fun
Boot: I actualy like the new one, how about "can be cast 2x per turn, but has to be on the same target?" that would make it more flexible but still limited
Claw: Yeah, I never seen anyone actually use it, evenescence and ruse are just better, i0d rather have a new spell over keeping this one, especially if you are movin the connection

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Score : 8

new Passive: rogue charges performing connections grants charges. certain spells with charges have new effects and will consume a charge
barbed fire:heal +bomb res

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Score : -2659

I'd like to hear your opinion on these matters:

  1. Scope: Loses the range bonus, converts melee mastery into distance mastery : the mastery is lost (+ doesn't work with brutality, just in case)
  2. Boot: is back to the way it used to be, without the +combo
  3. Claw: does this spell feel interesting, or do you feel like you use it often
1. Current Scope was cool, dont touch it.you should add 100 mastery resistance or armor for bombs because distance gear resistances are weak.
2.Boot will be useless if you support my bomboot idea and 2 usage for boot is not enough for 10 control.
3 i use claw as support but it is really useless for melee usage and protection, change it as clawerole for air-distance usage to damage and as claweroll.Claweroll will be a ranged spell and targeted bomb be attracted and follows Rogue's steps if close combat.

 
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Score : 441
Baseline changes for bombs:
  • Max combo = 20
  • Combo grows faster = 7/t
  • More resist (+50)
  • Bombs don't need control.

Changes for active skills:
  •  Boot:  Could come back to it's old itineration. Was more fun, has better bomb control, less long therm issues by having Rogue being able to TP things.
  • Ruse: Set max. range to 7. Add a connection for it.
  • Smoke bombs:  Add bomb immunity, , and a better defensive value. Remove CD, make it 1 per turn and add an internal CD to it. So you can't use it in the same target more than 1 time every 3 turns.
  • Detonation: Fix max. range to 7, to make it pair with Ruse.
  • Powder wall: Definitely needs more range, 4 is too short.


Elemental Skills:
  •  Piercing shot: Reduce to 1 range minimum. Ambush builds are a bit conflicted by this spell having 2 range min.
  • Execution:  Reduce 1 AP. Modify a bit its values, better base DPT, less gain when bomb it's killed. More combo possibilities with some other skills.
  • BBQ ribs:  Uses per turn from 2/t to 2/target.
  • Claw: Redesign this spell to make it a reliable air opener hit.

Sugestions:

Add some connections to some elemental skills to make them more interesting, more fun. Also better singery with Air. To Barbed fire, crossfire, blunderbluss (rename it blam), machine gun.

Passives:
  • ​​​​​​​​​​​​​​ Evolved Gadgets: Buff for bombs based on control, instead of investing on this stat to be able to place bombs, stating this stat would give you better bombs.
  • Minesweeper: Don't know  how to feel about this one. Spell variant.
  •  Scope: Change you proposed seems completely fine and will give Rogue a ton of options to build around.
  • Fugitive: The MP buff comes handy, but I feel it should be directed towards a more melee, mobile DPT class, like Air Rogue builds, than bomber. I feel like bomber are more like a stationay class and it needs the MP less.

Definitely needing some more passives. If we add connections we can add more connection passives.
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Score : 1220

Evolved Gadgets could work similarly to Osamodas's Blessing when in dragon form: +4% damage inflicted for your bombs per 1 control you have, max stack of 10 (+40% damage inflicted). I doubt we'd get such a straightforward buff, so they would probably add the condition of this buff only applying if you haven't summoned any new bombs during your current turn to prevent deploying a bomb and immediately detonating it with zero levels of Combo.

Surprise Shot would pair well with this version of Evolved Gadgets for spending your turn dealing direct damage rather than spending all your AP summoning new bombs, whether you're playing a bombless Rogue or if you spent your first turn summoning bombs to get your second turn ready to deal direct damage and detonate.

The deploy-and-run theme could be applied to Fugitive by having the damage penalty only apply before you cast any non-bomb elemental spells. Once you cast an elemental spell that isn't summoning a bomb, before the spell deals damage, the damage penalty is disabled for the remainder of your current turn.

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Score : 187

Scope passive change seems interesting. No longer at odds end for deciding in mastery build.

Luckily my distance build was crit mastery and single target.

Longsword- extremely clunky with carrying one connection. There’s literally only one maybe two connections that work with longsword.

Longsword is either a very bad bbq ribs, or a single target boomerang.

Longsword or another passive NEEDS to allow fluidity with connections.

Boomerang needs to lose restriction of connection.

Rogue has the unique opportunity to be the one class that builds critical mastery and skip critical hit.

Boomerang longsword working more effectively can single handedly open this class up to air/fire builds and air/earth builds. Which are non existent/ clunky.

Allow Longsword to carry last two connections.

Imagine- slap shot, bbq, boomerang longsword bbq ribs. Longsword carries over “triple damage on bbq ribs” and “reverse critical chance” to bbq ribs.

Or boomerang long sword long sword

Or boomerang, bbq ribs, long sword, slap shot.

Or boomerangs, evenescence, longsword, bbq ribs.

To counter act this, longsword could require a wp to use.

So while effective, bombs are still required to be most effective.

I still think execution was in a perfect state before the change.

At the two AP cost it had more options, including using in a melee build.

Evenescence-execution-slapshot bbq ribs-bbq ribs.

I don’t see ANY reason to use claw.I see a reason to give rogue lock though. Powder walls, and kaboom effects makes you want to fight within range of bombs.

CLAW - connection: reversed lock and dodge until claw is used again.
WHEN TARGETING BOMB -connection melee mastery converts to distance mastery.

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