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[1.68 Feedback] Feca Revamp

By [Ankama]WAKFU - ADMINISTRATOR - June 02, 2020, 16:00:00
DevTracker AnkaTracker

Hello everyone,

Please post your feedback here.

Reply
First Ankama intervention

Hello,

Thank you all for your feedback. I'll start amplifying the tank side of the class (via passives & gameplay) for the next beta. Don't forget to respect everyone, having different perspectives is a chance. There are a lot of things that can still change so please keep it cool.

A few details and answers :

Mobility

I don't think it will change a lot from the beta. It's abnormal that a tank could be as mobile while having a loot of offensive, defensive and supporting tools.

Cooldowns

I think cooldowns are a great tool to create a true rotation, real, meaningful tactical choices. You don't get to put the same free buff every turn on the same guy. You have to drop it when the time's right and the situation is appropriate.

It goes perfectly with the trigger conditions.
I think triggers are the perfect way to have a "protector" gameplay. You need to anticipate, prevent, think one step ahead. And there's a risk that you're wrong. That's the gameplay, that's the feca's signature. Honestly I'd like to rebalance the buffs and the states rather than reworking the gameplay.

Then again, I'm not excluding to add a cooldown reducing passive by the time the feca revamp is released.

Immunity

Summary : it's a great spell except it clearly lacks a downside. I'm probably going to add a mechanical condition to use it. Currently, this spell is too strong and breaks a lot of rules in the game's balance. It's supposed to be an ace under the sleeve, but players use it to maximise their potential in "risk VS reward" situations.

Costs : AP and WP

I plan to study this. I already have a few leads for WP regen.



Speaking of leads, what do you think of having less "shields" (2 per path) but really strong and different shields ?

I identify the following

Cons :

  • We lose the global approach of the class. Each spell is supposed to have two uses, it's a strong identity.
Pros :
  • The class is a lot easier to learn, less effects to remember etc.
  • Less shield spells mean more regular spells (damage + small effect)

Let me know what you think about this.

Good Beta,

Siu.
 
See message in context
Reactions 155
Score : 276

Why they hate to let feca move freely?New TP is worse than old one.

8 -1
Reply
Score : 4843

That's because they aren't meant to be positioners anymore

0 -6
Score : 282

My initial impression with Feca;

The new revamp is clearly going to be a weaker version than what we're used to. This was a known fact, and just an impending doom for all Feca mains/users.

The class as it stands now utilizes a lot more WP than previously in order to Shield or Glyph properly. It seems that to do the most potent shielding at the current moment, Glyphs are your best option for this. The other shields such as Volcano, Aegis, and Rampart all have fixed values that are less potent than the Glyphs armoring ability using Combat Armor passive. However, being that Feca armor is now permanent until damage is taken there is more of a tactical build up use or early Turn 1 team wide shielding.

In terms of damage, I think this route is the best for a Feca. A majority of its shielding and etc are generated off of damage dealt now. Many of its best abilities are non-modifiable in range so a melee approach is likely to be most common. A ranged DD Feca can still make a solid debut, but loses out on great spells should it be maintaining a far distance. I am under high belief that Feca is a stronger melee DD support than a ranged DD support now. It makes the most sense as Ranged DDs are able to "more freely" to do their turns and damage than melee DDs have been able to in the past. The reason I say this is due to a few important spells aforementioned; Rampart, Bastion, and Staff all work perfectly for a melee DD. A huge thing to mention prior to going in depth on why I believe this is that shields are stackable all on a single character. If you were to theoretically cast all of these one on target you would increase their res by 150 (A passive that increases targets res by 50 per shield and yours, the feca, by -25 per shield cast) and yours by -75. You would give them 625~ armor per enemy nearby to a total of 625x4. You would increase their CC damage by 40% and bastion would also disengage them by having them leap back 1 cell at the start of their turn. This is perfect for Ambush II or having to get to a new target without being locked up. All of these synergize very well with a melee DD and poorly with a ranged DD.

What elements seem to prosper the best? Still Water/Earth in my opinion. The only Fire spells that seem to have relevance in a support/damage aspect are Volcano and Natural Attack. You wouldn't use these for damage but instead the AP buff (best, again, on a melee DD or a turret of a ranged DD) or the 1WP 2150 armor bonus from Volcano. Being that Feca is the best indirect damage dealer in the game now; Water is an obvious choice to combine with the health steal passive, and Earth is a clear choice for the armoring and high damage aspects. Fire can be used for high damage as well, but lacks any supportive aspects as 3/5 of the spells are for damage only. PvP is where the Fire Tree may find more relevance, but still has fall offs as earth or water can support and do damage.

There is a lot more to find out here, and I know my thought process here may be a little broken apart as well. I hope this helps some Feca users find their home again. Just know that this class needed to come down a couple pegs, but is far from being bad. My only concern at the moment as I was unable to test it on a dummy was its WP regeneration. If someone could better represent that portion of Feca I personally think its a well rounded class and will shift nicely into the new meta. For all you AP and Teleport fiends: Those both needed nerfs and we all know it. It's clearly not ideal for giving you crazy amounts of spell casts and damage, but the game isn't supposed to be about who can "unga bunga" the best. The class now requires more brain!

 

12 -7
Reply
Score : 282

There's also a substantial amount of res gain in the class; Easily can give yourself 250 - 400 res per turn!

0 -6
Score : 553

Compared to 1.67 passives the new ones in term of stats/power are complete garbage.

9 0
Reply
Score : 62

Absolutely yes.

2 0
Score : 95

A passive to turn some skills into direct area damage could be nice. Something like this maybe?

When casting xxx, xxx, xxx:
- 20% damage inflicted (1 turn)
- The glyph activates inmediately, dealing direct damage (takes 1 turn from the glyph)

 

1 0
Reply
Score : 4843

Considering glyphs only last 1 turn without the passive, that would really mess up the glyph based WP regen, also imideate indirect damage seems weird.
Why not just make the spells AoE?

0 -2
Score : 2252
omg the only good tank that hold the team in endgame content is going to die. wtf i don t understand why ankama is always messing baddly like this when theres no need. We wont be able to use it like and for the same purpose we do now.
BIG NERF!!
GG FECA WE WILL MISS YOU!!
18 -5
Reply
Score : 4843

Because they are overpowered? If they are the only good tank, that's obviously the problem.

2 -12
Score : 9326

"fire spells become range boostable and linear" passive is terrible

lose one thing, gain one thing, spend a passive slot doing it

monkey paw passives are not fun or interesting or inviting. this is the exact same curse you left foggernaut with and it's dull.

it feels like a punishment for something that was your fault in the first place. "feca has had it very good for a while, so it's time to make feca very frustrating and aggravating for a while". this is not how you treat your players.

20 -2
Reply
Score : 1085

x2

4 0
Score : 1085

why this insane nerf? makes no sense. please dont!!

this is a huge mess up, is not like when you nerf a DD fishing for classchanges and players just find another class to fix their teams, im talking about kicking everybody in the $%&/S here and frustrate our game, i hope everybody could get in beta and see the big picture before is too late, this will be bad.
8 -3
Reply
Score : 116

Give us the old teleport back at least, please?

5 -1
Reply
Score : 4843

Devs said no, because they don't want feca to also be a positioner

2 -7
Score : 143

I think the problem with this new update is the lack of armoring capabilities. Mobs in stasis 50 hit HARD, but not only in stasis 50, even lower stasis mobs are capable of destroying your characters with a couple of hits. The new feca can't give as much armor as before, and at the moment there is no way to compensate this loss. The shields are way too situational and the three turn cooldown hurts, you should add another way to gain WP since they drain so fast.

6 0
Reply
Score : 4843

They can give a ton of resistance with all for one and bubble though, so that wil make the armour more impactful

0 -9
Score : 3869

 

Scorp-Plant|2020-06-03 08:45:46
I think the problem with this new update is the lack of armoring capabilities. Mobs in stasis 50 hit HARD, but not only in stasis 50, even lower stasis mobs are capable of destroying your characters with a couple of hits. The new feca can't give as much armor as before, and at the moment there is no way to compensate this loss. The shields are way too situational and the three turn cooldown hurts, you should add another way to gain WP since they drain so fast.

I sort of agree with this, Only under one condition is it efficient to armor your allies. That's with the glyphs rebound damage hitting them from the passive.I think that's when it's powerful. But in a world with heal classes healing 4-5k with 4-5 ap, it's hard to give a slot to a "protector" when the healing is enough and the armor is underwhelming.

Optimally I'd like to see Feca and honestly all protector roles to be able to armor effectively enough for it to be unnecessary for classes like Eni/Sadida/Eca/Masq to completely blow their entire AP on healing every turn and play their class. I think it'd be more interesting that way, instead of Healers taking as many healing spells and spam healing every turn. I'd like it to be an option at the very least. Because right now, with the current values armor has. Optimally you'd just grab a healer and you will be better off replacing the protector with a dps.

Simply not rewarding enough to play protector well. I really do think Armor should be rewarded better. Please don't let the answer be "It'll be better during the passive revamp" because god knows how long that will be. Simple solutions could be a global passive that damages players for a set amount of hp upon armoring them for armor given(To reduce heal resist while you're at it).

There's also more counterplay options against shields vs heals.
2 0
Reply
Score : 4843

Healing
Pro: More powerful, scales with mastery
Con: Can only heal injured people, heal resistance, affected by incureable
Armour:
Pro: Is basically bonus max HP, you don't need mastery
Con: Doesnt protect against indirect damage, can be stolen

0 -8
Score : 350

Is a Super Nerf for Feca. I have a team with 2 berserks with whom I do stasis 40 and higher than the last DJs.I've seen how much armor he puts in now and I probably won't be able to play 2 berserks in a team.
if you want to run away the players and let the game die again this is the right way congratulations

11 -2
Reply
Score : 907

ok i tried this new feca and i have some doubts.
first of all, if you gave us this new "armor given" stat why armor now is fixed? i tried to give an armor fixed with 70% of armor given and it's still fixed ....what's the point?
second: as i saw feca now give armor boosted by damage inflicted,why the only passive that allows feca to give shield take off that damage?i tried to shield a 74% res ally and i stacked less than 1000 hp shield...are you serious?are there ,even in lv 200 mobs, someone that hit you dealing 1000 hp damage?what's this point?
Now feca is a tanker,a buffer and a positioner and it's really strong i can admit that, but with this update you nerfed it in every of this 3 aspects,taking him off the range so surely it can,t do both anymore.
The water branch is a joke, every player that do dungeons can see that ia of the mobs now is very smart, i have 2 berserk in team and when they accidentally go out of berserk no mobs or boss or anyone hit them.
And as i said before and said by another guy,i play with 2 berserk in team,i can deal with a sac without armor but i can't with an elio without it so you with this new extravagance of no armor(joke armor) are basicly destroyng the concept of berserk. good job
Another thing hat has been said because more than a guildian complained about is that with this new feca noone will probably use it and  who has panda will restore it in team; you pratically want us to change team,like you did with fogger,while you should make all characters equally usable; i'm an old player and i have all chars so no problem for me, but for new players that mentally build the right team to do what they want it's a really huge stop because now they are forced to build .......a panda;XD, the only survivor of this wich(support)hunting
think about it 

3 0
Reply
Score : 4843

the armour given stat is broken on beta, that's why it doesn't work
also yes the new armour is weaker but now you can grant allies a ton of resistance

1 -10
Score : 1339

I can't see the Feca being good in any of the roles he used to play before.

I can't see a reason why every spell has a condition to it bonuses when you can only have the bonus once every 3 turns. Also the Feca can't boost damage for ranged allies anymore making it a niche support. Mobility given is now dependent to monsters attack and it can't give range or %heal anymore.

There are very few good passives, most of them targeted for a damage dealer Feca and the downsides are too hard. Lets see The best Defense as an example. It gives 20% Damage Inflicted but remove all the armor given when it should remove a % of the armor given working as Carnage. 

Increased Glyph and Persistent Glyph is not working together properly as the size increase works for the first turn only, or is it supposed to be like that? 

5 -1
Reply
Score : 3869

I was going to bring this up as well.
I think it'd be more interesting for the player if prolonged the shield effect produced effect for two turns instead of 1 turn producing it 1 turn with the effects. Changing it to 1 turn with the effects 2 turns producing it, increasing the stack rate and lowering the base rate.
This way Feca would prefer to do something else or help set up the class for success during this time for a larger burst turn.

0 0
Score : 301
You guys just made another osa, but tankier and without summons. Osa has literally the same buff mechanic.

Most of the buffs it provides are simply unusable and have very odd conditions to be applied.
For example, the Wave shield, gives you 150% of the level into lock/dodge if the unit gets hit in melee. Why do I have to get hit for that? Absolutely the same works for the Storm shield - we get 1 mp and 1 range for getting hit in distance. Why do I have to get hit to receive such common buffs?

And I absolutely hate the passive that gives 15% crit and 15% single-target damage for not having armor on a class that makes benefits from using armor.

This rework doesn't just feel like a nerf, it feels more like an april's fools joke.
13 0
Reply

Hello,

Thank you all for your feedback. I'll start amplifying the tank side of the class (via passives & gameplay) for the next beta. Don't forget to respect everyone, having different perspectives is a chance. There are a lot of things that can still change so please keep it cool.

A few details and answers :

Mobility

I don't think it will change a lot from the beta. It's abnormal that a tank could be as mobile while having a loot of offensive, defensive and supporting tools.

Cooldowns

I think cooldowns are a great tool to create a true rotation, real, meaningful tactical choices. You don't get to put the same free buff every turn on the same guy. You have to drop it when the time's right and the situation is appropriate.

It goes perfectly with the trigger conditions.
I think triggers are the perfect way to have a "protector" gameplay. You need to anticipate, prevent, think one step ahead. And there's a risk that you're wrong. That's the gameplay, that's the feca's signature. Honestly I'd like to rebalance the buffs and the states rather than reworking the gameplay.

Then again, I'm not excluding to add a cooldown reducing passive by the time the feca revamp is released.

Immunity

Summary : it's a great spell except it clearly lacks a downside. I'm probably going to add a mechanical condition to use it. Currently, this spell is too strong and breaks a lot of rules in the game's balance. It's supposed to be an ace under the sleeve, but players use it to maximise their potential in "risk VS reward" situations.

Costs : AP and WP

I plan to study this. I already have a few leads for WP regen.



Speaking of leads, what do you think of having less "shields" (2 per path) but really strong and different shields ?

I identify the following

Cons :

  • We lose the global approach of the class. Each spell is supposed to have two uses, it's a strong identity.
Pros :
  • The class is a lot easier to learn, less effects to remember etc.
  • Less shield spells mean more regular spells (damage + small effect)

Let me know what you think about this.

Good Beta,

Siu.
 
Reply
Score : 143

I think that reducing the number of shields per path would be a great idea, considering that many seem too hard to trigger or not useful enough, so I would rather have just a few, but useful and reliable. What i don't agree much with is the idea of nerfing immunity, does it really need to have a downside? It seems to be pretty balanced currently considering the high WP cost in this beta, maybe the only thing it needs is a slightly longer cooldown on a single player to avoid trying to make one "immortal". I think it would be great if the feca had a sort of "Target" spell that makes enemies attack the specified player, when possible, although it might be too hard to implement. Anyways thanks for listening to us, and trying to find the best way to make this class balanced together with the players.

3 -3
Score : 62

Would it possible for feca to give armor to fogger blockade more?
Currently only pacification and avalanche are able to give blockade armor.Since blockade doesn't get a turn glyphs can't give it armor
Which would mean in this current state only 2 other spells can give fogger blockade armor, sadida bramble and fertilizer. Feca is supposed to be the shield class so I thought there would be more interaction between feca and fogger blockade.

2 0
Reply
Score : 1160

I actually enjoy the new feca rework, I didnt like the last rework the "super tank"

Edit: Hey I understand you like current version of feca but can you at least respect my opinion?
I agree this new version needs some improvements but I just like it, I almost never played the actual feca I think is just boring, better? maybe but is not atractive for me, BUT again I understand why YOU like it

2 -14
Reply
Score : 1

Congratulations to Ankaman for the new animation effects on the feca spells that look too pretty
My opinion:
I understand that the feca is a kind of support but they made it too dependent on a tank since it does not tank but helps to tank, they should also think that there are people who like to play alone.

In the beta test to give me shield with the feca and spend a turn to give them all doing this spend all the pw so that all these will last me 1 turn and then make maneuvers to get other pw.

As for the glyphs I love the animation that appears when you use an element to put a glyph, but they are too small and the passive that enlarges them just a little makes me spend 2 pw per glyph is too much to put a glyph would be great to merge that passive with which the glyphs last for two turns so as not to be a machine to spend pw adding one more condition than if it spends 2 pw and the glyph spells lose 1 range so they force you to get closer to the enemy.
psdt I love the telluric fist effect or something like that so far I only spam it for the animation * - *

ty translate google smile

1 -1
Reply
Score : 138

For the love of feca, cause a main feca play feca all times, with this patch imcoming, feca will  be the 2nd enu  for sure, noone touch it until set back  smile). Many, many feca mains will leave after this, another one have feca on team, they change the sac. i dont waste time to explant casue every feca knows it. enjoy thje hell comming, gais

7 -3
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