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[1.67 Feedback] Foggernaut Class Revamp

By [Ankama]WAKFU - ADMINISTRATOR - February 17, 2020, 10:50:09
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Reactions 71
Score : 322

Hi siu!! :v  
After testing the new steamer here is my opinion and my suggestions:   

1.Opinion:
Tbh the new steamer mechanics seems very funny, its main mechanic is interesting and i hope it is going to be a really funny and good class, but actually it have a some fails (obviously because is beta) that i think you already know which are ;u

2.Siuggestions:
As i mentioned before the new steamer have some things that needs to be checked or polished, like the WP gain and the cost/abilities of the spells. I'm not against simple spells, while the class has a mechanic that gives them a certain level of complexity like in this case (stasis, wp generation, overheating and high pressure) but many spells needs a higher base damage and some spells just are there because yes (The two spells that brings WP and one 2/3 AP spell steals the whole show until have for the finisher)  Soooo i make some suggestions about mechanics, spells and some aesthetic suggestions :v

2.1.Mechanics siuggestions: 
In beta the main mechanic of the fogger is the WP generation, it's an interesting mechanic but the way to win WP is a bit limiting to those 2 spells so these are my suggestions: 

I was thinking maybe we can use Overheating and High pressure to gain WP like idk , after changing from overheating to high pressure you gain 1WP and vice versa(? or maybe when you lose one of these you gain 1WP

Or maybe with a new state, i think about a water state like ''steam'' or ''fog'': the Overheating of the steamer evaporates part of the water of its spells,  per lvl depending of the current state (overheating or high pressure) it gains 0,2% final damage -0,5 elemental resistance (Overheating) or 0,2% final damage and  blindness (1 lvl per every 25)(or maybe instead of blindness a malus like -0,3% of critical hit), the spells of the other elements will consume 10 of this state, and every 20 (or 25/30) consumed gains 1WP, when the fogger become stasis the fog becomes ''stasisfied'': the fog get consumed and per every 10 lvls the fogger gains 1 lvl of stasisfied: When the fogger cast one spell consume 1 lvl, this inflict -25HP stasis to the fogger and increase by 10% the damage of the spell, So the fogger can choice gain WP  or increase its damage

Other way can be with the blockade and turrets, when they die can give 1WP to the fogger or something like that 

2.2.Spells:

I'm going to talk about the spells that i think needs a change/balance: 

Blazing fire and Flambé:
I think the fire rails are good, you can cast Flambé on a microbot and make a glyphe, if you are lucky and someone is over the microbot this spells makes a nice damage, but i would send this effect to Blazing fire, the glyphe makes AoE damage (i'm not sure about this but every glyphe use AoE damage) so i think could be good increasing the cost in 1AP  and leaving the same base damage but you can damage with the spell and the glyphe without needing the rival over the microbot, just over a rail, and about Flambé reduce the cost by 1AP and make their base damage 50, if the fogger have more than 3 of Overheating Flambé consume 1 lvl and makes 15 or 20 extra damage.

Charring: 
This spell is one of the 2 spells that gives WP to the fogger, on beta this inflict damage to the fogger and brings 1WP, i think it's a bit easy and slow gain WP with this, maybe it can consume all of the Overheating lvls and per every 2 or 3 gains 1WP 

Furnace: 
This spell is good, just limit it to 5-7 

Evaporation:
I think the cost of this spell is high, maybe you can reduce by 1AP or by 1WP it

Dissolution: 
This water spell is the other spell used to gain WP, i think can be better: The fogger reduce by 1 the Overheating because of cooling and steals 1WP, increase the damage by 30 if the fogger has 3 lvls or less

Hammerclaw:
Imo i think this spell can be ST but AoE it's ok, it can be better if you increase by 1 it's range 

Shebang: 
The Brutality fogger have a low WP generation so this spell is expensive, so it can be better if it still cost WP but grants 1WP per enemy in the zone

Ironclad: 
I think this spell is pretty flat, so this is my suggestion: 
Change its name to ''Self repair'': 50 elemental resistance, -1MP and stabilizeat the start of the next turn the fogger lose this state and heals a 20/30% of the damage received on the last turn 
(if it is casted at the start of the turn the fogger gain 1 lvl of high pressure)

Stranglehold:
Same effect on enemies and allies, but if you use my suggestion of ironclad this spell no longer stabilize the fogger, it brings: 15/20% Indirect damage and 15% indirect damage steal for 1 turn 

And about passives i think it's ok, just change some negative effects

2.3.Aesthetic siuggestions:
I think the aesthetic is needed in a class because everybody wants to use it and feel cool, i know that a lot of things are placeholder but i want to propose.

If you use my ironclad suggestion change the color of the transformation into green (like earth), 
I think the furnace icon can be like a current stasis spell of the fogger and i know it can be hard to make but when the fogger use stasification could be cool if the icons of the spells changes its colours into a stasis color, i took my time to make some of the icons, they are on this link:
Zelda
I'm not an expert of photoshop so don't expect the best icons of the world

And that's all, thx for read att: Mag :v

2 0
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Score : 5019

They aready said they will give more WP generation because on kill WP sucks.
Also none of the spell base damage is final, this is early beta.

Stranglehold: What indirect damage? Fogger doesn't have indirect damage!

2 -2
Score : 30

 

RynthZero|2020-02-20 15:06:48
You might have missed it but there is an Active Spell that gives 100 res -1mp to fogger too, but I agree I would like some -final damage on monsters and a way to buff/interact more with blockade. The old way had the full turn on blocks which was boring but this version seems even less about using a blockade sad. I get chuncked with 80+ res on my fogger vs panda ghost mobs where before I was taking marginal damage.  (live- was with some enchants, beta- with perfect runes :| )
 

No I didn't. I mentioned it that is ironclad. Which is called fogginator in Live patch
0 -1
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Score : 1823

A lot of things on this new fog bother me, as someone said it looks like it's losing a ton of it's uniqueness. This is a huge nerf on the class on pretty much every aspect except tank. Damage is wrecked down to slow build up and bursts, which isn't reliable. Mobility is wrecked down by slow WP recharge and high cost rails that no longer have cybot to help place them, have low range and need LoS.

Both these things can be fixed without making foggernaut the powerhouse it currently is on live server. I will point some ideas to improve it, some which were mentioned by people here.

1. Making its mechanics have more interactions:
Reason: Foggernaut feels a bit lackluster with current mechanics, they don't interact much with eachother. Spells feel like just their base damage, range and AoE or not.
Ways to Improve:

  • Spells that use overheat/pressure, growing with it or using stacks
  • Different effects if the spell targets a blockade, turret or rail (last one has a few quite nice ones), improving their interaction with them.
  • Allow a switch between distance and melee, inverting stacks of pressure/overheat and maybe masteries. With a passive, maybe something similar to what sacrier has.

2. Improving wp:
Reason: Foggernaut is WP dependant to burst, but it's not so easy to recover them. There are steal spells that are not fun to use and cost a lot of ap.
Ways to Improve:
  • Add more options or reliable ways to recover wp
  • Maybe even remove some regen ways and make fog start with max wp? I know you are trying to remove the high burst of the class, but just the wp limit already limits it to 2 turn bursting at 6 wp.
  • Add a 100 stack to recover wp, like other classes have. Give stacks with lock/blockade absorption and ranged damage?

3. Improving Tank Capabilities:
One of the clear objectives of this update it to strenghten tank fog possiblities. But it just doesn't feel impressive at all.

3.1. Blockade:
Reason: Blockade, probably it's main tank tool, is lacklouster in several ways:
  • Blockade attracts AoE, which shred it super fast
  • Blockade has no spells to interact and help it last
  • Fixed hp/armor on placement, which is really low at start of fight and grows a little bit better as it goes on.
  • 4 turn cooldown which is huge since you can't protect it
  • 1 blockade only, which is really bad for reposition
  • Small coverage of protection, only within 2 of blockade
  • Simply a much inferior version of sacrier's sacrifice
Each of these are not a problem on their own, but together they make blockade pretty bad. I understand starting from worse and improving it, but it really needs improvement.

Ways to Improve:
  • Make blockade similar to Panda's barrel, which doesn't attract AoE
  • Make less restrictions on blockade, be it in less turn cooldown, more blockades on field, better hp
  • Make spells interact with blockade, buffing, protecting or moving it.
  • Make Blockade affect allies on rail if it is on rail itself, making the rail an extention of its protection. This avoids AoE, interacts with other spells and expands Blockade coverage.

3.2. Improve Armor Generation and WP-tank usage:
Reason: Currently foggernaut has 3 ways to help it sustain: a meager armor generation, a passive that allows lifesteal with WP and Blockade. Blockade was covered on the other subtopic.
WP for tanking is only usable for healthsteal, which is kinda meh for a tank-oriented role. Other than that, there is mobility and that's it.
Armor generation on the other hand, is really bad. Blockade, that was supposed to cover that up, isn't good enough and has a long cooldown and bad starting power.

Ways to Improve:
  • Improving Blockade
  • Adding WP spells that are tank oriented, that generate shield, resist or willpower.
  • Improving Armor Generation, make it scale with mastery, add more shielding spells

4. Mobility:
Reason: Mobility on foggernaut also took a heavy blow. Yes, the rails last forever, but they cost a bunch to setup, are not easy to place and cybot is no longer there to help the placement. The WP spell that dashes was moved from fire branch to water branch but now WP starts at 0 and is not available for free. Not only fog took a blow to dmg but on mobility as well. Lastly, the microbots are now limited to 4, which also limits how much space you can cover on field.

Ways to Improve:
  • Add Cybot back (but I doubt you want this)
  • Reduce microbot cost, make first one per turn be free or lower the ap growth cost.
  • Removing microbot cost set to 0, currently removing microbot increases the cost of the turn, which is pretty bad.
  • Increase range or remove LoS need of rails, since there is no cybot to help place them anymore
  • Remove wp cost from dash spell, maybe a passive effect
  • Add a push spell, now that fogger has water, pushing could come with it. This allows a bit of placement and getting out of high lock enemies.

Overall this is what I wanted to cover, I obviously don't want all of these things to happen, but a few of them would be nice. They can also be added in passives as different ways to play the class. I also didn't touch damage potential topic cause I don't know much what to do with it, since devs probably want to nerf its damage.
I personally like a lot the idea of making blockades extend their protection to rail and this could be a way to fix a few things.
I know the class is on Beta and changes will still be made, but I hope some of these problems and ideas prove helpful.
Lastly, these ideas are not only mine, they came from discord talking and reading other comments here.
Rori
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Score : 5019

1. The damage isn't final, this is early beta and the damage values will change.
2. Yes they said they will give fogger better WP generation
3. Block is no longer a build around spell, it's just a fire and forget, which is ok for a 2 AP spell
4. You can have 5 microbots with the passive, also they no longer cost control and never run out so making them harder to set up is the balancing drawback
5. There will be no placement spells, this is intentional, you can escape with evaporation but it costs WP

1 -3
Score : 210

Not sure if I should post this here, but there's a visual bug with the new beta update. When stasification is on, the pummel spell creates a visual copy of the fogger in the targeted cell.

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Score : 6000

Obviously a feature, not a bug!
It's clear they're preparing for another invasion!

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Hello,

Thank you all for your very elaborate and precious feedback.

I hope my more recent proposals on the gameplay better suit your expectations. All the tweaking and balancing work on the Foggernaut is not over yet. I'd like to share a few of my thoughts, and I'd like to have your opinion on the additions I'm currently studying.

More effects on spells
In my opinion, we don't need more effects and at the same time, we do. I don't have a definite answer to this. A class can feel very open and pleasant because there is no specific, forced interaction between spells. (for example : cast this then that for a brand new effect)
It is true though, that some rare or complex interactions can have a very fun feeling when they occur.

After giving it some thought, I have a serious possibility : changing the effect of the spell, depending on the distance of the cast.

Example 1 : Cast spell X in melee and it has a lifesteal effect. Cast spell X in distance and it deals more damage.
Example 2 : Torrent removes -10% CH if the target is in melee, and -10% Block if the target is in distance.

This feature could be applied to a few spells (3 or 4). It would suit the theme of the class, and its range vs close combat duality.

Passives
I'd still like to introduce a few more passives to the class. If we manage to make around twenty of them, it would be nice.
If you have the feeling that a number of archetypes need a little boost, or if you have overall cool proposals, don't hesitate to post them here.

As a reminder : we ideally want a passive to be considered by everyone, and change the way the Foggernaut is played.

Gunner and Ironclad
I'm satisfied with these two actives. They are simple and they answer precise archetypes in a reasonable way. The Foggernaut possesses a lot of strong visual elements, and they mecanically don't suit each other a lot. That's why we tried to make the class simpler on a variety of mechanics.

I don't think there's a need to work around them more, but I wouldn't want to close any door.

Stasification
For now, this version of Stasification appears to be reasonable for both the community and our initial intention.
However, we will keep an eye on this state. We could sum up the Stasis spell by the following sentence : "I'm always in my peak condition because I use my best mastery on the weakness of my enemy".

It's a very delicate balancing matter and it deserves all our attention.

WP regeneration
Wakfu Points used to have a lot more value and importance in our first proposal (because of Furnace), and they may now lack that.
I'd like to bring back some "build-up" mechanics on the Fogger. I'll try to find some ideas around that in the near feature.

Known bugs (to this date) :
Furnace, Charring and Flambé infinitely repeat when cast on the "back" view.
With Stasification, Pummel creates visual copies of the Foggernaut that never go away.
Evaporation and Outpouring allow your High Pressure and Overheating to interact in an unintended way with the passive Amputation of Gears.

Again, thank you all for your participation to the beta. Have a nice weekend.

Siu.

Reply
Score : 5019

I'd like more effect on spells, but not too many spells, having too many spells have variable effects would get annoying.

Stasification does seem a bit strong at the moment, but we'll see

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Score : 4634

Reminds me of wayway back feca where every spell had an armor effect when cast on allies and a glyph effect when cast on the ground. It would be cool if the fogger had 1-2 spells in each branch that had that 2 kind of effects. 

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Score : -12

Maybe a new Passive for WP regen could be great in dungeons where mobs and bosses steal WP. 

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Score : 765

Overall, the concept of the rework shows promise. I like the direction of the passives.

HOWEVER. I'm going to be blunt, since this is an issue that's been plaguing the new player experience for a WHILE: Remove the level requirement for spells and passives.

The reasons are simple:
1) Spells grow with level, so having a level required to unlock them just makes learning your character complicated for new players. Having more options isn't bad and several characters have their ENTIRE reworked combos locked behind level walls. Sram? Needs Wiley to do anything. Doesn't unlock it until 21+. Fogger? Needs 50+ for Fogginater (Aka, tank form pre rework). All the core abilities of classes, along with their rotations, are locked behind levels. Doing nothing but spamming the one good damage spell until 20+, because combos and abilities are locked until then, just teaches new players that the game is simple and easy. Then it suddenly spikes because their one button spam becomes useless and they never experiemented at the lower levels.
2) You unlock passive slots with levels. Why are passives ALSO locked behind levels? This is a massive problem, since a lot of the later level passives can be exactly how a new player wants to play. I have a friend who JUST got into the game and wanted to play Tank Fogger before the rework. He saw the level for both the tank form spell AND the passives to support it and just gave up on Fogger altogether. In his words "So. I have to play without useful passives and spells until I'm level 80?"
3) Gating content, especially when it makes a playstyle viable, behind levels isn't incentive to play your game. It's aggravating. 

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Score : 6000

I mentioned this on the discord, and this might be a welcome addition as a backbone for another Passive (Or two).

There should be a passive to compliment a Hybrid Melee/Distance build. Especially if spells will have a different effect based on distance.
The current mechanics of the foggernaut make it so that you are rewarded for being melee or ranged exclusively - in fact, extra rewarded for 'sticking' to a specific role, given how the Pressure/Overheat mechanics stack.
Constantly flip-flopping between ranged and melee will cause the states to never build up, and making all your damage allround purely for the sake to have a unique diverse skillset feels less rewarding than ensuring you stick to a specified role on top of that.

Perhaps a passive would be nice that would start converting your Distance damage into Melee damage the more stacks of High Pressure you have, and the other way around for Overheating. Each stack would give a higher percentage of conversion (Thus also maxing out at 4 stacks).

This would allow a specialized Foggernaut to slowly convert his focus and change roles midcombat. The delay in full conversion would be a drawback to ensure the class is not immediately powerful in both roles 'at all times'.



Alternatively, a passive could be designed that would fascilitate constant switching between modes in some way or another (As oppossed to trying your constant best to stick with one and the same role)

 

Geneforge|2020-02-21 19:50:46
Having a character that excels at ranged combat AND melee combat as well as anyone specialized for JUST those roles is just silly.

You don't see a Sram complaining that they can't deal backstab damage from over 7 spaces away with their traps, why should a Tank Fogger be able to become Sniper Fogger because of ONE passive?! It would make the passive mandatory in almost all situations, due to the unpredictability of the AI.




Oh, is it suddenly? What about a Sacrier using the Transcendance passive? - That one converts 100% (I never mentioned values of conversion ratio in my idea for the Fogger) - Heck, it doesn't even convert, it simply lets you excell at both at the same time. Its also constant and without any possible drawback (Mine needs to be build up and is tied to a fluctuous and potentially dissipating state)
My idea could also still be tied to yet another drawback, like most Fogger passives do these days.

Point being - Any idea could be balanced properly by the design team. There is nothing wrong with the core concept of being able to be hybrid (Especially on this class) if you add enough counterweight to it.

 
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Score : 765

Having a character that excels at ranged combat AND melee combat as well as anyone specialized for JUST those roles is just silly.

You don't see a Sram complaining that they can't deal backstab damage from over 7 spaces away with their traps, why should a Tank Fogger be able to become Sniper Fogger because of ONE passive?! It would make the passive mandatory in almost all situations, due to the unpredictability of the AI.

1 -1
Score : 183

I logged in today and saw the update on the beta. I want to address a personal concern about some of the changes to the spells. I don’t think Charring and Dissolution should have been changed the way they were. I felt their ap cost was acceptable and allowing them to generate WP was an interesting way to start building damage for Furnace. The only change I recommend for those two spells is adding a diminishing damage effect on them. My recommendation is to add 20 points of non-reducible damage to the base damage starting on the first turn. For each level of overheating/high pressure acquired, the non-reducible damage would be reduced by 5 (so by turn 2 it would become 15 after 1 stack of high pressure/overheating) until finally the bonus damage would disappear when the player reaches 4 stacks of either effect.I honestly liked the design of Furnace before the update and how it was setup. It took time to reach full potential depending on how much wp you had, it had a decent cooldown, and it regened all but 1 of your wp spent to use it.Please consider reimplementing how these spells worked before and making the adjustment based around my recommendation. I felt the damage potential was there and all that was needed to be adjusted was the damage of the base spells that generated wp.Thank you for taking the time to hear me out.

2 -1
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Score : 5019

I think what I disliek about the new Stasis isn't that it's a strong mechanic, it's just mildly adaptable.
Idk, whatever way I turn it it doesn't sound fun, I mean if the target has all resistances equal, it does literally nothing. And if it doesn't, you just don't have to check what they are weak to.

It's like one of those effects like armour steal or WP theft, good tool but only against certain enemies. But while other such effect have a big swingy effect, this jsut does a bit more damage against certain enemies.
Before it at least reduced resistance, which was a bad choice, but it afflicting some debuff made sense, without it it's like a spork at a dinner table.

Ok I came up with an idea:

Stasis mode should cost 3 WP per turn again (or whatever makes it balanced), BUT,
All damage done in stasis mode cannot be regenerated until the end of the fight (like reducing max HP, but without the logistic problems).
So if you are fighting an enemy with a lot of healing, regeneration or lifesteal, all damage you deal with stasis is damage you don't have to worry about anymore, instead of beathing him up your clouds of pure stasis searing parts of him out of existance.
This would also help against enemies that revive like chafers as them getting up again would have less HP then usual.

And if that's really impossible to implement, it could just peranently increase the target's healing resistance.

3 -4
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Score : 6000

Could Bombardment perhaps have a secondary effect when used on one-self? Something that would play in reverse with the Bombardment state (The less stacks you have, the more it gives a specific buff and removes a stack, as opposed to adding one).

It would make the spell more playful, being able to consider either adding or removing stacks (Removing stacks obviously making the damage output weaker again, but the 'buff' side stronger)

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Score : 78

I did notice there are no ranged attacks (other than Evaporation, which is a Teleport) that don't require line of sight.  A ranged class ought to have one option that allows them to fire past allies, especially since the revamped Gunner state limits all attacks to cardinal directions.

I think Froth and Flambé are both good candidates to be non-line of sight abilities, but even if they aren't, there really should be one ranged option for non-line of sight fire.

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Score : 322

Hi again :v! 
Siu, you said that you maybe are going to implement a mechanic to some spells depending on the distance of the casts, so i want to propose thinks(not only about this mechanic, ideas for some spells and new passives):

Charring: 
Casted 3 cells or less: The fogger reduce by 80% the damage of flamereturn 
Casted 4 cells or further: Increase by 20% flame return and 10% the damage of the spell
The fogger can choose between dealing more damage or resist more flamereturn 

Furnace: 
The new furnace is ok but i have an idea for a new one: 
No longer cost WP, -145HP (fire)   
In a second cast of furnace: 
      It cost 1WP extra
      -215HP (fire)
2 turns cooldown (you have to wait 1 turn to make a very powerful damage)
The actual furnace is very powerful with the passive that cancel the WP stasified generation, but i don't think it is intended so here is my idea for this spell

Torrent: 
I think can be cool your idea of making Torrent removes -10% CH if the target is in melee, and -10% Block if the target is in distance.

Froth: 
If it is casted 4 cells or further the base damage is 115 
If it is casted at 2 cells reduce to 95 the base damage and pierce armor 

Trampling: 
If it is casted 2 cells or less -3MP
If it is casted at 3 cells no longer remove MP and steals 500 armor

And now some ideas for new passives :v!!!! (5 to complete the 20 xd)

Double battery: 
On odd turns: Increase by 2 the WP generation
On pair turns: the WP generation is 0 
I think some players would like to have 2WP on the second turn at the cost of not generating for the next turn, a passive for short fights  

Cooler: 
By switching from High pressure to Overheating, the fogger cooler gives him an icy armor to withstand Overheating:
+14HP (armor)(water, or maybe light) per lvl of High pressure 
This can be useful for the fogger when he wants to escape 

Steam: 
Increase by 15% the stasis damage, but 10% of the damage forwards to the fogger 
This passive is useful when the enemy have a high resistance, so the penalty is not so high

Tin man: 
The fogger lose all of his block 
Earns double of this amount on elemental mastery
The fogger sacrifice his tank abilities to increase his damage  

Advanced machinery: 
When the fogger cast a spell and a turret it's on straight line with the target this makes an attack of 25HP(light)(max 3 times per turn)
-1 range 
The fogger reduce his range to be more powerful with his turrets

thx for read this comment :v have a nice day!

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Score : 5019

Trampling: Cool idea but might be too much versatility
Steam: Don't really understand, do you take more damage, or does stasis hurt you too?
Tin man: Block is much harder to get then mastery? Idk, seems kinda weak

0 -1
Score : 5019

 

papu122|2020-02-24 20:25:15
Steam: you do more damage but stasis hurt you
tin man: is useful when you are tank maybe and you are going to fight with another tank so you can sacrifice block to deal more damage

Ironically even when fighting a tank, not dying is still more important then dealing more damage (unless you do 0 damage), but my point is 50% block is a lot more powerful then 100 mastery

I mean imagine if you got 50% crit for -100 mastery, it's not even close to equal.
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Hello,


Thanks again for all your feedback. I fixed a few issues, and I thought of some more tweaks on Foggernaut. Since we won't update the beta server this week, I'll go ahead and share them with you so that I can have your feedback on it.

Spells


Charring
The "Flame return" becomes a "Stasis return" under Stasification

Furnace
Reduced cooldown (1 per turn)
150 Fire damage
Cast in distance : 42 extra Fire damage
-> The spell will need 2 turns to recharge
Cast in melee : Incurable lvl 5 (1 turn)

Torrent
Cast in distance : -10% Block (1 turn)
Lancé en mêlée : -10% Critical Hit (1 turn)

Pummel
Cast in distance : Pushes back 1 cell
Cast in melee : Armor

Shebang
5% extra damage per caster's remaining MP (30% max)

Passives


Flaming Carapace

By switching from Overheating to High Pressure, per Overheating level :
20% of the level in Barrier (1 turn)
20% of the level in Flaming (1 turn)
4% Damage Inflicted (1 turn)
Foggernaut no longer deals damage around

New passives :

Stasis Tank
When the Foggernaut has max WP :
+3% non-Stasis Damage inflicted (per WP)

Motionless Station
Per max WP above 6 at the start of the fight :
-> Regains 1 WP at the start of the fight (does not increase the max)
-> -1 max Microbot

Weakening
The Stasified bearer has a malus of -15% Damage inflicted



I'm available if you have any questions or proposals

Siu.
 
Reply
Score : 2175

Charring: Yes, I'm 100% with this change, I feel like Stasification needs more drawbacks than just "don't generate wp", giving these drawbacks to certain spells is the right way to go. I suggest more spells have different effects for Stasification, perhaps even lower damage for a big effect.

Pumel: Every tank needs a push as much as a pull, but you got the wrong spell and concept. The point of a push is when an enemy is TOO CLOSE, so it doesn’t make sense to push and enemy only when he is far. I suggest giving the BOMBARDMENT spell the pushing ability. This spell is already limited 3 uses per turn, which balances out the pushing ability. It would be like Ecaflip’s “Craps” spell, same cost, same limitation.

Flaming Carapace: Fogger's switching mechanic really allows some creative choices to benefit those who like going back and forth between styles. Its always nice to see what can benefit us for quick changes.

Stasis Tank: The name is a little misleading, I think it could be named something more like "Stasis Overcharge" or "Radiation", the word "Tank" makes the passive sound like it will boost our DEFENSE.

Motionles Station: So basicaly, if my Max Wp is above 6, I start the fight with 1 WP and minus 1 microbot (out of 5)? Ok, I like it a lot.

Weakening: I feel like this passive is too strong with no limitation. Just Stasify the guy and he loses 15% dmg permanently? Hmm... why not 2.5% per level of High-pressure (making it a total of 15% at lv6 of High Pressure)? Or if he is in the radius of the Blockade like the old Stasis Flux passive? Or make it something that is applied for 1 or 2 turns when the enemy takes Stasis damage, so you have to stasify yourself, deal damage, and it will be temporary anyway. You can even give it another effect per level of Overheat, such as perhaps 2.5% damage received per level of Overheat, so this passive also works alongside Fogger's High Pressure/Overheat mechanic.

I also feel like the Stasis Flux spell should come back, it was a neat spell, plus it was exclusive to Sacrier to take damage for an ally, so having a second tank able to do it is completely fine, that spell was perfect and should stay with Fogger 2.0

So far, I can clearly see you guys want to make Foggernaut a very resilient main tank.... and I love it. But you guys can't make the fogger an indestructable wall either, show some restraint

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Score : 2175

Hope you manage to fix the "foggernaut clone" issue. Also, can you rework the turret a little bit? Those things seem awfuly confusing to actualy attack the enemy.

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Reply
Score : 562

Eng. translation roughly : 2/29/2020

Fogginator Passives translated, excluding the universal passives.

Words i found hard to understand and looked it up--
Detriment : the state of being harmed or damaged.
PV : HP

Energy Moderator

- the steamer is naturally more powerful but more difficult to regain
its WP. passive choice in configurations with few enemies

- (20% damage inflicted)

-disable wp revival by killing an enemy

Oil Reserve

- improves remote damage to the steamer to the detriment of its range

Overheating
-> Gives 10% distance damage per level
-> no longer increases the range

Wakfu Reactor

- the steamer gains wakfu points to activate statisfaction
from the start of the fight, in exchange for a reduction
in his defensive capacity

- (-50 resistance)

- at the start of the fight, the steamer regain 2 WP

Transformer

- let steamer become more resistant, during its critical hit potential

- convert critical hits to resists

- 1 to 1 rate

- % critical hits converted are lost

Transportation Technology

- Transport technology increases the size of the rails created by
the microbots as well as their maximum number. On the other hand,
the Steamer loses mobility out of these rails

- 3 to max size of microbot rail

- (- 1max MP)Influx of Vitality

- Stasis damage gains a life stealing ability (heals the caster)
but heals less damage

- (- 30% STASIS damage inflicted)
- >> Steals 50% of damage inflicted

Reinforced armor plating

- The blocks are sure to protect the steamer and its allies however
they are less effective

- The Blockade is stabilized
(-20% PV on the Blockade)

Ironclad Covering

- The steamer is naturally more resistant. Its maximum of WP is
greatly reduced, which also receives the possibility of damage as
a furnace or stasification. Passive of choice in small fights, or
by compensating with his equipment to find a satisfactory balance.

- (- 3 max WP)

PV bonus for the steamer:
- >> 600% of its level (+1200)

Unshakable Skeleton

-increases the tackle potential of the steamer, to the detriment
of its dodge.

- halve the dodge of the steamer

- triples the lock of the steamer

Flaming shell

- allows the steamer to surprise his opponent by giving up his
distance mode to go to his melee mode. he is rewarded for his
adaptation within combat.

- By gaining High Pressure, by lev. from Overheating:
- >> [Enemy target] damage [Stasis / Light]: 24 (size 1)[+]

Light alloy

- Increases the mobility of the steamer to the detriment of its HP.
Beneficial in combo with the gunner mode, or in combats where the
steamer risks being little attacked

- (+ 1MP)
- (-20% HP [penalty on HP modifier])

Amputation of gears

- Allows you to have fixed but immediately applied bonuses.
Passive of choice if the fight is fast.

- Overheating and High Pressure:
- >> Are applied at the start of combat at level 2
- >> Cannot be applied
- >> Cannot level up

Limiter Removal

- The steamer can climb higher in its maximum bonus of
overheating and overpressure.

- (+ 2 at the maximum level of Overheating and High Pressure)
Cyclic battery

- The overheating and suppression bonuses go up faster.
nevertheless, they are no longer premanent: they end up
being reinitialized.

- Overheating and High Pressure:
- >> Earn two levels instead of one
- >> Last only one round at max level

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Score : 2175

“PV” is the french version of “HP” (provably “Points du Vie”)

Also, “tackle” is translated to “dodge”. The unshakable Skeleton passive decreases Dodge to increase Lock.

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Score : 5019

 

Granthese|2020-02-28 08:45:31
Weakening: I feel like this passive is too strong with no limitation. Just Stasify the guy and he loses 15% dmg permanently? Hmm... why not 2.5% per level of High-pressure (making it a total of 15% at lv6 of High Pressure)? Or if he is in the radius of the Blockade like the old Stasis Flux passive? Or make it something that is applied for 1 or 2 turns when the enemy takes Stasis damage, so you have to stasify yourself, deal damage, and it will be temporary anyway. You can even give it another effect per level of Overheat, such as perhaps 2.5% damage received per level of Overheat, so this passive also works alongside Fogger's High Pressure/Overheat mechanic.

Stasification is a state applied to the last enemy you damaged (the same state that gives you WP on kill, disabled by energy moderator), so you can only apply it to 1 enemy per turn.

I really wish they changed the name, it is really confusing since this was the name of a malus applied by stasis spells before the rework, it will just misslead people.
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Score : 2175

Well if you can only have one stasified enemy at a time, it does feel more balanced, can’t wait to try these on.

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Score : 17

(This post is the one I posted on the french forum. I put it here for those who wants to talk about Foggernaut (it's just an internet traduction))

Hello, the long-awaited update is coming, so am I.

I am not going to talk about the damage ratios of spells which, in my opinion, are not yet fixed but which are still not attractive, especially for a DPT.

First, let’s talk about the two new liabilities presented to us:

  • Stasis reservoir: If we have all our PW, we gain 3% DI per PW.
Potentially strong if we put ourselves in mind to play a full PW stuff, allowing us to climb to indecent %DI with +30% or +42% in full PW. However the Foggernaut starts the fight with little PW, 0, 2 or more depending on whether we play the other passive but it turns out that we still lack 4PW to reach the max at the minimum. Indeed, if we play basic 6PW with Reactor in Wakfu (which allows us to play with 2PW) we are therefore missing 4PW. If we are still playing Wakfu Reactor and we are playing 8PW, we have at the beginning of the 2PW fight (from Wakfu Reactor) + 2PW (Stationary Immobility)=4PW on a total of 8PW.
The difference grows if we don’t play Reactor in Wakfu.

From there the observation is quite simple, reaching the maximum PW becomes quite long, at least 4 turns if we do not kill mobs or if we play the passive Energy Moderator. Four rounds is already huge but it’s in case we don’t play a spell asking for Pws. If we use PW, we may potentially never reach the max and thus never enjoy the passive. Moreover, since the loss of the PW is effective before the infliction of damage to the target, no spell at PW can benefit from this liability.

"You might as well not play it then," you might say, and I agree. But what bothers me is that this liability runs counter to the Foggernaut's new principle of managing his Pws during fight. 
The idea of this liability is not so much to manage them, but to save them, thus preventing us from using:
  • Furnace (biggest DPT spell of Foggernaut distance)
  • Dissolution (another big fate of DPT of the Foggernaut)
  • Shock (Foggernaut's biggest mixed TPD spell)
  • Block (Foggernaut's tanking option)
  • Battleship (other Foggernaut tanking option)
  • Stasis flow (a spell that allows the Foggernaut to move more easily)
  • Stasification (which just switcher on the unique mechanics of the Foggernaut)
This passive, Reservoir of Stasis, offers us to dispense with 7 spells of the Foggernaut, or 30% of the spells proper to the class.

I think this liability is well intentioned, but it’s misguided. If the goal is to make us question our judgment about using a PW or not, it seems to me more wise to give the PW bonus on the number of current PW. The player will then question whether he prefers tanker more, move or hit this turn harder than stack %DI for the next turn.

The second added liability is stationary immobility. It allows us to start with more PW if we invest our equipment and statistics in PW.
Stationary immobility: +1PW for each PW>6; removes 1 microbot max for each PW >6.
Well, I don’t really get it. Investment in PW is already quite expensive as the equipment providing PW is less powerful than the equipment not providing it. Here, the liability adds to the burden by removing us as a bonus for our ability to move. The typical example is the case where we want to play the Tell wing boots that requires 8PW to be equipped. So we start the fight with 2PW more but with 2 microbots less. So we have more than three microbots available. So already to make a closed circuit it is hot (no, it is impossible in fact (ed: laughter)).
"Put passive transport technology", ah yes with this liability we then have 4 remaining microbots. But we lose 1 PM.
"Put light alloy!" Oh yes, we get the PM but we lose 20% on our PV multiplier.
Yeah... in the end we want to play this passive but it costs us 2 more passive slots and 20% on the multiplier. Not very glorious.

In my opinion here the malus is too much, we already have a malus to play the PW items. Also, it might be nice to reward players who decide to play with less than 6 PW. We can imagine that if having more than 6 removes microbots, having less than 6 could add some.
Here, the player who wants to play shaded boots for example, or who just doesn’t want to play boots wings tell in fact, will never wonder to take this passive. Perhaps we can find an alternative that can make this liability potentially attractive to everyone.

These liabilities, even if I am not really satisfied with them, do not really cause me any problem, they will surely be reviewed. What makes me wonder a little more though is the very mechanics of the new Foggernaut, the 0 PW at the start of the fight.

With the first grind of Fournaise, I understood the mechanics. We contain ourselves, we basically charge ourselves, to drop the sauce at the right moment with our Furnace.
Now Furnace requires only one PW every two turns, in PW management we saw better.
Moreover with this mechanics I have the impression that the Foggernaut arrives in the fight completely distraught. So okay, boosting yourself at the start of the fight is something common in video games, but you can still do it by playing. The boost, or I didn’t play this game, is not done by passing its turn. I see it a bit like a Foggernaut who would say "wait guys! I pass my tricks and I arrive".

I don’t know if I’m the only one who feels that way, but I feel that the mechanics are no longer really consistent with the gameplay. Furnace no longer has its original use and henceforth the spells at PW do not have the impact necessary to justify the fact that we have to start at 0 PW and to manage our PW to take advantage of it.
Basically what I mean is that spells at PW aren’t worth the candle. They are not at all decisive enough to force us to such a loss of PW.

Yet there are many things to do with this concept (the management of Pws), I am sure. We could imagine a Stasis mode that automatically activates when our PW’s are high, thus encouraging us not to use our PW’s (if we start with all our PW’s) to enjoy this Stasis; or instead to use the spells at PW to enjoy their ratios.
Or a mechanic that offers the Foggernaut to convert its PW to PS (Stasis Point) to use big spells!
Or a mechanics that adds Stasis damage to spells if we PW are high, asking us to weigh the pros and cons between using spells at PW to sweep mobs directly or save themselves to be more effective later.

Thank you for your consideration!

(I point out what is wrong but I see very well what is going well also hein. The removal of free microbot goes straight to my heart. The kisscool effects on spells according to whether we are at a distance or in a melee is pretty good. The optics of a potential Foggernaut hybrid mixed/distance with Evaporation and Surge is great fun too. I think we’re on the right track to have a redesign that will lay a solid foundation for future redesigns, A little more effort from everyone and it’s going to roll nicely)
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Score : 78

After playing the reworked Foggernaut, I have noticed that the lack of non-line-of-sight abilities is a real weakness for the Gunner mode.  Because Gunner restricts all abilities to cardinal directions, it is very easy for an ally or pet to deny the Foggernaut's damage to his intended target.

Other classes who have range as a focus, such as Cra, have abilities that allow them access to a target when they don't have line-of-sight.  Even classes who are not primarily ranged classes, such as Ecaflip, typically have at least one ability that allows them to get their damage past an obstruction.

Because Foggernaut does have ranged damage as one of its class attributes, and because Gunner is central to ranged play, I really think that Gunner mode should have access to at least one way to damage foes that does not require line-of-sight.

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