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[1.67 Feedback] Foggernaut Class Revamp

By [Ankama]WAKFU - ADMINISTRATOR - February 17, 2020, 10:50:09
AnkaTracker

Hello everyone,

Please post your feedback here.

Reply
First Ankama intervention

Hello,

I’ve read your feedback (here as well as on the french forum) and I’d like to intervene on this thread to answer you.

Spell values and costs

It’s currently WIP, and there will be a lot of modifications. In ranges, costs, damage ratios, state bonuses…  The balancing work is generally added after the global, macro mechanics are designed and refined. We want to check that they work properly first, then we’ll balance the class into being actually efficient.

It is our intent not to make Foggernaut weak or unefficient. We don’t have anything to gain from it. We will adapt to create a satisfying class on this matter.
Some of the content in the game requires a lot of quick, constant damage. We believe it’s not very interesting to give a class 100% of its potential from turn 1 until turn 999. There is a certain balance to find though. It’s a matter of cursor, we need to set and adjust the abilities of the class until we find the proper balance.

If a content demands a certain class or a certain archetype and the others can’t even hope to compete, then that content should be reworked. The content will adapt to the classes, not the other way around.

WP regeneration

A lot of players pointed out some problems on the Foggernaut’s WP regeneration system.

  • Killing an enemy hasn’t a consistent efficiency depending on the content.
  • Gaining a WP when killing an enemy can be counter-intuitive. WP are more frequently used to finish an enemy off, or to apply more pressure into the game.
  • There is a need to use two spells very frequently (Charring and Dissolution).
  • A third spell makes too good of a use of big WP gains (Outpouring).

We will think on this issue to create something nicer.

Spells identity

I’ll take the liberty of reminding a tricky difference : simplicity and ease.
Spells have to be simple and easy to understand, even if they can also be hard to use in a optimized, perfect way. This basis is essential for creating a game that’s very interesting for both beginners and seasoned players.

We think Foggernaut spells are simpler than before, which can lead to a feeling of having less than before. But they have in fact more variety. If we tweak Dissolution, Charring (and Outpouring if need be), we’ll have a clearer view of the global kit we want for the Foggernaut.

In summary : We want to improve some spell concepts following your feedback.

Passives with constraints

We see your point on the number of constraints on passives.

We explained in the December devblog that we wanted to operate a change of approach about passives.
Some passives have active effects, or very situationnal effects. Which feels unnatural. They’re complex compared with their contribution. We intend to modify a lot of passives on a lot of classes, and in turn, these modifications can bring tweaks on spells or natural gameplays.

This will be a fully dedicated update.

We have some objectives or, so to say, a set of rules for this ongoing revamp :
  • Remove « spell variants ». Some passives improve a spell from a specific class (better range, reduced cooldown, additional effect...).
    • In our opinion, that’s not a passive. That’s a spell variant. If a spell needs a passive to be competitive, then we should improve the spell naturally.
  • Make passives more universal. Every passive from every class should be an interesting pick for every player. For example, a « critical damage bonus » passive may be not that interesting, because a character that’s not specialized in Critical Hits isn’t going to consider this passive at all.
    • We want to create more room for choices. We want players to be regularly tempted to change their passive sets. Players could change from one fight to another, to better counter their enemies or to better synergize with their allies.
    • No matter the role, no matter the build. Each passive should be considered and should feel consistent.
  • Avoid passives that block each other, or complement each other too well. We don’t want a passive to become way too viable because of another passive. We don’t want a passive not to be a viable pick, just because another passive has already been picked.
  • Passives have one level and don’t evolve anymore.

We’ve already imagined the potential of these « new passives » on five classes : Foggernaut, Cra, Pandawa, Rogue, Sacrier.

Since classes might also be subject to tweaks on elemental spells, we feel like it will be a very time-consuming task. We hope to achieve it all by the end of 2020.
I deeply and sincerely wish that you will accompany us in the conception of these new passives.

Back to Foggernaut. I’ll see if I can take another look at the constraints. It’s possible that I focused too much on passives that are less free, because I think that’s more interesting. But the sole fact of having to choose one passive over a variety of others is already a big constraint.

There will still be constraints, conditions, maluses on some passives, maybe less systematically.



If we wished for a class to be presented to the community with no intent to listen to the community’s feedbacks, we would drop it patch day without the beta process. We sincerely want to listen to the community to achieve the best possible revamp. Keep in mind that opinions often differ from one player to another, so it’s not possible to listen to everyone.
Whatever happens, we will take your feedback into consideration when making our decisions.

Siu.
 
See message in context
Reactions 69
Score : 5978

The global mechanis for Overheating/High Pressure sound interesting on paper, but might be a bit too punishing in a lot of situations. Some Dungeons are too compact, or even include mechanics that demand being up close to enemies for instance.

The spells: I'm sorry to be brass here, but 'my god are they bland/boring!'. The vast majority in its current state are just simple click'and'damage spells (Or -10 Block..) with absolutely no mechanisms or interaction, and devoid of any personality. Literally only Flambé looks inspired.
Earth is also copy-pasting the generic Earth-Kit by the looks of it - Movement drain, armour.. Please step out of those comfort zones a bit and be creative and playful with elemental branches!


The actives/passives will need to be looked at more thoroughly by me still. The whole Stasis conversion thing seems fine, although I am quite oppossed to the global mechanic for Wakfu gain being that of enemy-killing. It's an overbearing effect in group play, meaning everyone will basically need to play 'around' the Foggernaut killing everything to make it worthwhile. Its too forceful a condition.
If you're going to stick with this idea and make a Passive to cut off Wakfu being gained this way (Energy Moderator), make it an alternative way to gain Wakfu, not a damage increase.


Addition:

Also, currently the Overheating/High Pressure mechanics provide bonusses for staying true to one's role (Melee/Distance) - You prefer to stick with one role, given that it causes the state to stack, and suddenly having the state change is a drawback therefor, never a benefit.
If the idea of the Steamer was to try and give incentive to be more allround, a class that can switch between Melee and Ranged mode, then there should be a drastic incentive added to the states when switching around. Something that allows a Steamer to convert their Secondary Damages for instance.

6 0
Reply
Score : 16

I like the new block that puts on the playing field to tank, I see it much more useful than the previous one that you threw an entire turn to prepare it

I like the effects of overheating and overpressure mechanics, but not their way of obtaining them, in that aspect I like it more as it was before using your fire / earth attacks to generate them.

It seems to me that there are too many passive for the character and the level of obtaining some of the new ones is above 100 which seems to me to be nonsense, since few people reach 140 which is the level at which it is unlocked, so I would choose to join some passives that reinforce the same facet at the cost of weakening the other

The attacks I think should honestly have more interaction between them and the new movement that provides stasis damage to them.

I think it is time to remove the wakfu points from the character, and put a kind of deposit of "fuel", obviously this fuel would be the stasis, since it hits more with its robot theme, and this was generated through the movements and that you would receive a production bonus when combining the attacks. And this fuel is spent by the new state of use of the stasis.

I see the transformations quite expensive, I would change them to 1PA and they could change each other in exchange for a higher cost and a penalty of damage and fuel generation during that turn and the next.

I would add a passive that would give half the overpressure or overheating of what they had stored in one transformation or the other. In other words, if you have 100 of overheating, when you go to the other way you will get 50 of overpressure (without removing the penalty of the change of form)

And I would add another one that gives us the CaC domain through the remote domain or vice versa

And one more detail would make overpressure and overheating not fall in their respective forms, that is if you go in the armored form overpressure will remain, but if you go in your mobile turret form the one that is maintained is overheating. And so they could make interaction with the passive that I mentioned before.

1 0
Reply

Hello,

I’ve read your feedback (here as well as on the french forum) and I’d like to intervene on this thread to answer you.

Spell values and costs

It’s currently WIP, and there will be a lot of modifications. In ranges, costs, damage ratios, state bonuses…  The balancing work is generally added after the global, macro mechanics are designed and refined. We want to check that they work properly first, then we’ll balance the class into being actually efficient.

It is our intent not to make Foggernaut weak or unefficient. We don’t have anything to gain from it. We will adapt to create a satisfying class on this matter.
Some of the content in the game requires a lot of quick, constant damage. We believe it’s not very interesting to give a class 100% of its potential from turn 1 until turn 999. There is a certain balance to find though. It’s a matter of cursor, we need to set and adjust the abilities of the class until we find the proper balance.

If a content demands a certain class or a certain archetype and the others can’t even hope to compete, then that content should be reworked. The content will adapt to the classes, not the other way around.

WP regeneration

A lot of players pointed out some problems on the Foggernaut’s WP regeneration system.

  • Killing an enemy hasn’t a consistent efficiency depending on the content.
  • Gaining a WP when killing an enemy can be counter-intuitive. WP are more frequently used to finish an enemy off, or to apply more pressure into the game.
  • There is a need to use two spells very frequently (Charring and Dissolution).
  • A third spell makes too good of a use of big WP gains (Outpouring).

We will think on this issue to create something nicer.

Spells identity

I’ll take the liberty of reminding a tricky difference : simplicity and ease.
Spells have to be simple and easy to understand, even if they can also be hard to use in a optimized, perfect way. This basis is essential for creating a game that’s very interesting for both beginners and seasoned players.

We think Foggernaut spells are simpler than before, which can lead to a feeling of having less than before. But they have in fact more variety. If we tweak Dissolution, Charring (and Outpouring if need be), we’ll have a clearer view of the global kit we want for the Foggernaut.

In summary : We want to improve some spell concepts following your feedback.

Passives with constraints

We see your point on the number of constraints on passives.

We explained in the December devblog that we wanted to operate a change of approach about passives.
Some passives have active effects, or very situationnal effects. Which feels unnatural. They’re complex compared with their contribution. We intend to modify a lot of passives on a lot of classes, and in turn, these modifications can bring tweaks on spells or natural gameplays.

This will be a fully dedicated update.

We have some objectives or, so to say, a set of rules for this ongoing revamp :
  • Remove « spell variants ». Some passives improve a spell from a specific class (better range, reduced cooldown, additional effect...).
    • In our opinion, that’s not a passive. That’s a spell variant. If a spell needs a passive to be competitive, then we should improve the spell naturally.
  • Make passives more universal. Every passive from every class should be an interesting pick for every player. For example, a « critical damage bonus » passive may be not that interesting, because a character that’s not specialized in Critical Hits isn’t going to consider this passive at all.
    • We want to create more room for choices. We want players to be regularly tempted to change their passive sets. Players could change from one fight to another, to better counter their enemies or to better synergize with their allies.
    • No matter the role, no matter the build. Each passive should be considered and should feel consistent.
  • Avoid passives that block each other, or complement each other too well. We don’t want a passive to become way too viable because of another passive. We don’t want a passive not to be a viable pick, just because another passive has already been picked.
  • Passives have one level and don’t evolve anymore.

We’ve already imagined the potential of these « new passives » on five classes : Foggernaut, Cra, Pandawa, Rogue, Sacrier.

Since classes might also be subject to tweaks on elemental spells, we feel like it will be a very time-consuming task. We hope to achieve it all by the end of 2020.
I deeply and sincerely wish that you will accompany us in the conception of these new passives.

Back to Foggernaut. I’ll see if I can take another look at the constraints. It’s possible that I focused too much on passives that are less free, because I think that’s more interesting. But the sole fact of having to choose one passive over a variety of others is already a big constraint.

There will still be constraints, conditions, maluses on some passives, maybe less systematically.



If we wished for a class to be presented to the community with no intent to listen to the community’s feedbacks, we would drop it patch day without the beta process. We sincerely want to listen to the community to achieve the best possible revamp. Keep in mind that opinions often differ from one player to another, so it’s not possible to listen to everyone.
Whatever happens, we will take your feedback into consideration when making our decisions.

Siu.
 
Reply
Score : 5028

Remove « spell variants ». Some passives improve a spell from a specific class (better range, reduced cooldown, additional effect...).

  • In our opinion, that’s not a passive. That’s a spell variant. If a spell needs a passive to be competitive, then we should improve the spell naturally.
So you are thinking of removing badabang from Rogues, or does this only apply to non-innate spells?

But yeah I like the "powerfull but downside" passives, they feel like something that really focuses your build
0 0
Score : 715

I'm not too sure how I feel about the new Foggernaut yet. While I feel like it's a step towards better balance and more expressive gameplay for the class, on a macro level it seems to me that the class borrows too many mechanics from other classes for it to have it's own identity. Many of its new core mechanics play too similarly to other classes for the Fogger to be unique. Overheating and High Pressure positioning requirements make me think more of Cra or Ouginak than a Fogger. Or some of the spells, like Furnace (5th Fire Spell) remind me a lot more of a balanced attempt at Rogue's Piercing Shot, and Stasification looks like Hupper's Heart of Fire. I do enjoy the idea of the WP mechanics that were added as well as how modular the passives are all though they are both very restrictive.

I think that the Fogger should cement itself in some of the more unique aspects of the class, such as it's steampunk theme. I would look towards maybe making Overheating and High Pressure more fundamental in the kit as well as adding a cooling/venting mechanic to the water branch which can play into both Overheating and High Pressure.


I think that the Water spells should be a Overheating/High Pressure consuming branch. Water Spells could have a different effect depending on whether it consumes some Overheating or High Pressure. If it Cools (consumes) Overheating, maybe the Water Spell gets stronger like a scald or adds an effect, and if it Vents (consumes) High Pressure it applies a utility, like a buff or a debuff. A downside to this though would be getting locked out of using Water spells if you want to save your states. Maybe if another state is active water spells consume and gain an additional effect.

Perhaps when the Fogger reaches max stacks in a state they get a Debuff, like -Res at 4 stacks of Overheating or -MP for 4 stacks of High Pressure, and the next water spell you use either is empowered and reduces your Overheating/High Pressure. Thematically the Fogger would become more malleable when too hot or it's too hard for them to move efficently when they've built up too much pressure. 

To me the position requirements for Overheating/High Pressure are a bit too restrictive, I feel that swapping between Overheating and High Pressure shouldn't be tied to positioning as it would lead to frustration in small dense maps for ranged Foggers, or maps with positioning requirements where you need to stand near or far from mobs. Maybe a toggle ability that's once per turn, removes Overheating/High Pressure and gives 1 level of the other and you generate stack of the state 1 per turn if you do the positioning requirement. 

I think that the Mechanics I've listed are simple enough with more potential for in-depth play. Fire and Earth are based on Overheat/High Pressure, while water removes Overheat/High Pressure for an effect.

Also cosmetic option for Human Foggernauts.

Anyways, thanks for reading. Tibi out.
 

5 0
Reply
Score : 5028

I do like the idea of some spells have diferent effects dependin on if you have overheating or pressure (maybe heating could make the water cash cheaper, while pressure could give it more range?)

As for positioning problems, what if ending your turn in the other position simply removed 1 lvl of the state and gave you 1 level in the other instead of the whole state?
Maybe flaming carapace could remove it all but trigger a bonus like currently?

3 0
Score : 1925

I am very much in love with the new fogger theres now countless ways to build a fogger its no longer a choise between ranged dmg or tank.

The passives are magnificent you can even build the old ranged dps style fogger with them wich is a plus but personally i dont really care for that but some people will.

what i like a lot is the new overheat and pressure mechanic as a melee guy the up keep of preassure will be easy and really load off since in the old system you needed to spend a lot of resources to maintain the buffs while it was kinda fun and all i do prefer this one

mostly because it makes you more active not needing to babysit you blockade for example your focus is now moved to mobs and shield building (and since blockade will eat the first few turns dmg received fogger can build some impressive shields while under block and just keep ramping em up)

rails being permanent is also good move as it was not very fun to keep track of their despawns now its just set it up and modify when needed the microbot ap price pump up is bit nasty tho but passives allow some crazy mobility schemes so i understand why its there.

i do have one concern tho on one passive that might be litle too strong the tripling of lock. Dont get me wrong i absolutely love it but getting 3x lock might be a tad bit strong as my fogger now walks around in 4000 lock wich seems utterly bonkers especially when combined with stab, block and sacing of mp to gain 100 resi. Granted there are some high dodge mobs but with proper enchants and gear you can get this lock easily to upper 5k


i was focusing on water/earth frontline fogger and based on my testing of this specific combination i have to say this is solid re work (even spells are engaging enough compared what they were earth branch lost some effects but they were simplified and still present extra points of giving hammerclaw pulls a extra factor on it as you can pull to your sides or front and multiple targets at once)


kinda rare to give nothing but praise but this is literally all i wanted and more for fogger

5 -5
Reply
Score : 18

Recent problems with Fogger are:

1 ) You are forced to have a 5 A.P WP regen in your deck, and you are forced to use then in order to perform decently. You can't wait to kill and enemy before being able to position with your water spell, you can't wait to kill an enemy before using your actives, and so on.

2 ) It takes forever to build up your stats and a single missplay can take away four turns of build up, and it involves positioning. So in most dungeons and PVP you're faded to not stack. And it takes too long, even if nothing bothers you during the battle, to have an actuall buff with them.

3 ) Movement is extremelly detrimental to your own turn. You either waste a lot of W.P, or wast A LOT of A.P in order to move around long distances. I'm fine with the idea that not every character should be able to move freely in the battle field, but having this as an "almost option" that literally kills your turn is not the way to go.




 For the second problem I'd like to suggest that we should have a spell to "lock" our overheating/underpressure states. They go up at the end of our turns, so we could always decide when to lock, without being punished for killing an enemy, and there's nothing near you to keep stacking underpressure, for example. Or being locked by a mob and losing 4 turns of overheating stacks.

3 -4
Reply
Score : 1925

mm i fail to see the issue with a position with pressure and heat since the effect will only change if youre not filling the condition after your turn and as melee fogger has lock that i categorize as bonkers nothing is gona run from it and even if my any magical sense it does run you can generate mp using wakfu points so you just walk it of or pull with hammerclaw

as for range its basicly just same thing as elusive cras and fogger has a lot more ways to make sure he has the distance i really cant think its an issue

the fogger stats build up tho its fine since melee fogger at least will never ever under any condition loose it and even 1 stack of it gives a lot of benefits.


i do however wish the blockade cd be 1 turn shorter but as it allows fogger to ramp into insane generated shields and is healble by supports its ok but ish

 

3 -4
Reply
Score : 18

I don't know in which level you are playing, but I'll tell you this. Anything can run from steamer if they have any kind of movement spell. Any teleportation, anything that moves the steamer or the block can ruin the new steamer Tank. You'll have to cast one or two 5 A.P spells to get the W.P necessary to reposition, plus the spell you wanna use for that. Be it microbot, at a minimun of 3 A.P, or the water teleportation spell, 4 A.P. That's just for catching up. Unless you have already wasted your turns building W.P prior to this.

You don't see the movement as an issue cause you can use W.P to gain M.P? That slow built W.P you gain by wasting almost half your A.P to get one per turn, or having to kill an enemy to get, right? It seems to me that you're only thinking in confortable situations where you'll be standing in place all the battle. That's not gonna happen.

No, fogger has no way to ensure no one is gonna be around. His spell that takes M.P from the enemy is close range. His teleportation is 4 A.P 1 W.P. His microbots costs all your turn if you actually want to go somewhere, unless you have that built prior to this point.

And the stats build takes at least 4 turns, if you don't have the passive that increasses it by 2. When you're alone, sure. You can play up to four turns. When there is a full powerful mob group, or two full teams in pvp, or a boss. A 4 turn to build 40% damage (or less if you're building the ranged one) really isn't going to happen.

3 -5
Score : 5028

 

X-IV|2020-02-19 11:53:59
I don't know in which level you are playing, but I'll tell you this. Anything can run from steamer if they have any kind of movement spell. Any teleportation, anything that moves the steamer or the block can ruin the new steamer Tank. You'll have to cast one or two 5 A.P spells to get the W.P necessary to reposition, plus the spell you wanna use for that. Be it microbot, at a minimun of 3 A.P, or the water teleportation spell, 4 A.P. That's just for catching up. Unless you have already wasted your turns building W.P prior to this.

You don't see the movement as an issue cause you can use W.P to gain M.P? That slow built W.P you gain by wasting almost half your A.P to get one per turn, or having to kill an enemy to get, right? It seems to me that you're only thinking in confortable situations where you'll be standing in place all the battle. That's not gonna happen.

No, fogger has no way to ensure no one is gonna be around. His spell that takes M.P from the enemy is close range. His teleportation is 4 A.P 1 W.P. His microbots costs all your turn if you actually want to go somewhere, unless you have that built prior to this point.

And the stats build takes at least 4 turns, if you don't have the passive that increasses it by 2. When you're alone, sure. You can play up to four turns. When there is a full powerful mob group, or two full teams in pvp, or a boss. A 4 turn to build 40% damage (or less if you're building the ranged one) really isn't going to happen.



Hard to run from a fogger when a passive tripples his lock
Also you just have to be near an enemy not a specific enemy like ouginak's prey and he manages just fine.
Also you have a MP removal spell and a ranged AoE pull in earth.
4 -1
Reply
Score : 1925

 

cody5|2020-02-19 14:10:58
 
X-IV|2020-02-19 11:53:59
I don't know in which level you are playing, but I'll tell you this. Anything can run from steamer if they have any kind of movement spell. Any teleportation, anything that moves the steamer or the block can ruin the new steamer Tank. You'll have to cast one or two 5 A.P spells to get the W.P necessary to reposition, plus the spell you wanna use for that. Be it microbot, at a minimun of 3 A.P, or the water teleportation spell, 4 A.P. That's just for catching up. Unless you have already wasted your turns building W.P prior to this.

You don't see the movement as an issue cause you can use W.P to gain M.P? That slow built W.P you gain by wasting almost half your A.P to get one per turn, or having to kill an enemy to get, right? It seems to me that you're only thinking in confortable situations where you'll be standing in place all the battle. That's not gonna happen.

No, fogger has no way to ensure no one is gonna be around. His spell that takes M.P from the enemy is close range. His teleportation is 4 A.P 1 W.P. His microbots costs all your turn if you actually want to go somewhere, unless you have that built prior to this point.

And the stats build takes at least 4 turns, if you don't have the passive that increasses it by 2. When you're alone, sure. You can play up to four turns. When there is a full powerful mob group, or two full teams in pvp, or a boss. A 4 turn to build 40% damage (or less if you're building the ranged one) really isn't going to happen.




Hard to run from a fogger when a passive tripples his lock
Also you just have to be near an enemy not a specific enemy like ouginak's prey and he manages just fine.
Also you have a MP removal spell and a ranged AoE pull in earth.

Not to mention fog can stab enemy or himself and the buff changes after fog turn there just aint gona be situation where you cant keep ur buff unless you fail due misclicks. 


Also to the fella i run myy trio 200,197 and 190 
3 -3
Reply
Score : 18

Our friend mentioning triple the lock when I argued about teleporting and spells that moves characters around. Nice.
Ouginak's prey is 6 Range, not 3. Like I already mentioned, M.P removal is close combat only.

Yes, he has the aoe pull, that's nice to have, but please read the thing to it's entirety.

Also I like the stab too. I have no arguments around that, tho I don't think it's enough, but that's just me.

Also, let's take a look at the classes that can outrun fogger burning less resources than him and aren't troubled by the "triple the lock" thing because they have actual mobility, just for funsies.

Huppermage, Osamodas, Rogue, Sran, Feca, xelor, Ecaflip, iop,  Cra, sacrier, pandawa, maske, eliotrope.

Note that Feca is the only one that relies on cooldown.

If you run from fogger they will have to ditch the block, so they are very vulnerable. They have to use at least 3 A.P (2 microbots) or 4 A.P + 1 W.P to get back to you easily, if you didn't run too far. If you run too far, and that's most of the time, he has to use both, or waste W.P that he has to cast spells with a cost of 5 A.P to get back.

And good luck keeping your distance bonus in dungeons.

3 -4
Reply
Score : 1925

honey..

what lv do you play in? Coz you dont seem to understand that the buff goes away ONLY if you end up too close or far meaning if mob comes closer to you.. well you know move?

Also fogger has literal truckload of movement from rails to teleports to mp generating keeping the 3 cell distance from mobs is not gona be issue most cras did run elusive and managed to do it just fine (dunno if its still there after mii revamp but did you ever hear any cra complain about that passive? I didint.. like.. ever.

as for melee buff lock the mob with for example my fogger with low lock gear and stats has 4000 lock you aint gona dodge that your only option is to teleport but the thing is fog will stab you place blockade behind himself and just kinda laugh as you cant move and slowly but surely pummel you to death. (this is for pve)


as for pvp sure many of those can escape but hupper requires runic trickery, osa needs summon, feca ill give you since buble gives full lock immunity, xelor can tempus fugit but aint gona get far if dial is down and on cd, eca can feline but not very far it has 3 uses per turn sure he/she can use up to scratch too but at this point its saccing entire ap pool just to escape, cra roly poly or beacon sneak prolly sure but again its a cra and even melee fog will cathc him fast, and so on but im gona say one thingy here:

microbots

you can make em and remove them and they have stupid range with the passive. You can run from fogger but hes gona get back to you very fast you need 1-2 turns to set up fully functioning map covering movement system and you can stab them a lot.

point being you can run but fogger will cathc you and keeps the buff.

3 -4
Score : 1925

ow some actual feedback fro devs:

the bloackades this might just be my head in action but it seems i need to kill my blockade before i can replace new one and sure its better mobs to kill it buuut sometimes you do need to place new one when the old is there and manually whacking it down with spells is kinda well bad.

so slight mod for this recasting blockade after cd would destroy old one? if this already the case sorry for being dum dum but the spell was grayed out from use for me when i had it active

ow also other quality of life suggestion.

allow the fogger to decide the direction turret is facing: like if fog is facing backside the turret will too if side its side ways etc. The turret is really good addition to fogger arsenal and im already toying with max control deck ideas to just make literal fortified bunkers with turrets on all directions but since the usage of turret is kinda hard since you need mp to make face the direction you want its not gona see a lot use and will become niche spell at best


Buuut if the fogger can decide the direction the turret is looking by facing certain directions while casting, the problem goes away.

huge fan of the turret btw i can see some fun shenanigans brewing up with these. those who have not already tested theese btw its 4 ap stationary summon that is not stabbed and will shoot any target within 4-8 cells of doing 2 shots of 40 base dmg with light. Limited by control and since blockade nor microbot eats the control anymore..


im just saying my 40k role play is gona go on whole new direction with these :-D

3 -4
Reply
Score : 5028

I'm preaty sure turrets shoot in all directions, not jsut the one they are facing

4 0
Score : 4596

I would like to see a passive or spell that gives Foggers a way to interact with their blockade, even if it is just to heal or shield it or not block line of sight, atm foggers have no interactions with it other than placing it and that feels like a lost opportunity to do a cool thing. 

Otherwise, I am happy with passives and Pressure and heat works well for what its worth. I think the 3x lock is excessive but I like big numbers and its just a laughably high amount.  It would be nice to have a WP regen option that isn't 5ap cost, like bringing back when blocks die fogger gets 1 wp.  The Turrets would be nice to have something that unsummons them because I find myself having to Smack them down to place them if I miss click (just a thought).

I'm hoping the Earth spell that produces a shield doesn't stay as a static number (reminds me of srams shield steal which is pitiful). But I trust that this new fogger will be more versatile. 


I am excited biggrin, also beta is so nice to see people it makes the game feel like its glory days!

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Score : 1925

I wouldnt scoff at with interaction spells for blockades but i do actually think after some more testing that the blockade needs a small buff.

i can crate 10k (barely tho) total hp blockade with my current gear but only with full melee buff. This is kinda weak considering the tinme needed to get the full buff and the cd of blockade.

meanwhile in live server i can do the same blockade hp (its also pure hp and not hp + shield) and heal it next turn and build another just as potent blockade. tankernaut lives or die weather the block is up or not and the up keep of that.


while the pummel does allow you to build shield wich is nice but the thing with that is you now need to choose wakfu or shield building.

solution: lower the block cd or give it higher hp 10% is kinda too little. or my prefered option link fogger shield generation with blokade.

fogger receves shield --> blockade receves shield

this way fogger can use its pummel to generate shield and keep the blockade alive bit longer.

or give fogger a spell via something lets call this "link" cast link on blockade and 1 turn all healing fogger receves and shield goes also to the blockade sure this might be bit over powered but the value can be cut in half if its too strong for example heals and shields block receves would be cut by 30% or in similar fashion.


edit: or if making spell effect or new spell from scratch is too off puting how about adding it inside microbot spell and have it work kinda along the way like this:

fogger standing on rail and if a blockade is on rail also hp or shield fogger received goes thro microbot to blockade  you could call the effect "power cable"

3 -2
Score : 1925

 

cody5|2020-02-19 19:20:03
I'm preaty sure turrets shoot in all directions, not jsut the one they are facing


i was too but mine didint seem to shoot xd like if the mob was behind it and 4 cells of the turret did not shoot and i had to use claw to move it so it saw it
3 -3
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Score : 3

The earth branch/ tanking passives need to be worked on.Old Fogger Had:
Spells:
1.       Blockade to take dmg of any allies in a 2 cell aoe.
2.       Stasis flux which could redirect dmg taken by an allies to the fogger.
3.       Fogginator to stab themselves and increase res
4.       And cybot which could move the block around.
5.       A spell to pull in an aoe around the block and gives fogger flaming+ pressure+highpressure
6.       A spell to push in an aoe  +pressure+highpressure
7.       A spell to increase hp of block +pressure+highpressure
8.       A spell to heal the block +pressure+highpressure
9.       A spell that had no other effects but gave pressure+highpressure as well
9 Spells that were a part of tanking
General mechanics
1.       High Pressure: FOW,res,block
2.       and pressure armor to  nearby allies
As for passives they had
1.       advance post for armor generation
2.       stasis shield for hp increase
3.       critical turbo which encouraged blockade placing for wp regen and dmg reduction
4.       armor plating which increases the effects of 2 earth spells on the blockade  and gave res to fogger and allies near block
5.       and finally Transfer which gave armor to nearby allies based on dmg fogger received and encouraged you to use stasis spells to have a dmg reduction on the enemie’s near based current stasis lvl of the enemy.
All together that’s 9 spells and 5 passives 2 mechanics for tanking.A total of 16 things for tanking.

**Beta fogger has:**

General Mechanic:
1.       High Pressure: only block, and 2%hp of fogger increase on block per lvl
Spells:
1.       a spell that gives fogger but doesn’t scale with anything but lvl
2.       a-3mp spell
3.       4ap pull 2 cell pull
4.       Blockade which has a 4 turn cd and has fixed hp after placed
5.       Ironclad which just gives res
6.       Stranglehold a spell that stabilizes the target
Passives
1.       Reinforced Armor Plating: blocks have 20% less hp but stabilized.
2.       Ironclad covering:Hp increase but -3wp the hp total is less than the
3.       Transformer: Crit conversion into Res
4.       Limiter removal: High pressure max increase
5.       Amputation:start at lvl 2 High pressure but can’t increase

That’s a total of 1 general mechanic  6 spells and 5 passives for a total of 12 things.
16 total mechanics you had before vs 12 things you have now in beta.

But of the 5 current Beta passives
The hp increasing one is worse than the old one with 3 or more allies (600%hp vs 660%hp(3allies)).
Transformer is useless without Theory of matter sublimation since tanking gears have little or no crit.
And finally Reinforced Armor plating is useless because why would you want to stab a blockade you can only have 1 of and that has a 4 turn cd?


Things the fogger can no longer do:
1.       move the block without spending any ap
2.       give armor to allies
3.       apply dmg reduction on enemies,
4.       gain FOW
5.       heal block,
6.       increase hp of block after placing
,7.       have more than 1 block,
8.       take dmg in place of an ally,
9.       push an enemy
10.   give res to allies
For a total of 10 thingsThings the fogger gained:
1.        a stabilizing spell
2.       lock increase
3.       crit into res conversion.
4.      gain armor

For a Total of 4 things
Fogger lost 10 tanking things and only gained 4back one of which is useless without an expensive rare sublimation.

4 -3
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Score : 5028

1, 5, 6, 7. The block is now stronger then the base block and you don't need to buff it manually with your AP, also it scales with pressure
2, 8. Yes, that's fair, but you can facetank now unlike before
3, 10. They never did?
4. This is intentional, they want to give classes less FoW
9. This is intentional

2a. They already had this

They also gained
1. Better rails
2. More sensible innate passive
3. MP removal
4. fire glyphs
5. MP buff self/ally

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Score : 5028

My suggestions:

1. A passive that makes you loose 1 level of OverPressure instead of all of it when in the wrong position, could be called flywheels

2. Flaming carapace giving a bonus on both transitions, not just Over to Pressure (rename to adaptive armour?)

3. Changing foggers WP to SP (stasis points), just a decorative change but very flavourful

4. A passive simiar to oil reserve for high pressure (maybe gives more block but you loose the damage bonus?)

5. Visual indicator of turret range, like the rails have

6. Maybe some spells could have diferent/bonus effects in Over/Pressure/Ironclad/Gunner? I like how simple they are but some interactions are always cool. Maybe blazing fire and frothing?

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Score : 1925

 

cody5|2020-02-19 23:36:13
1, 5, 6, 7. The block is now stronger then the base block and you don't need to buff it manually with your AP, also it scales with pressure
2, 8. Yes, that's fair, but you can facetank now unlike before
3, 10. They never did?
4. This is intentional, they want to give classes less FoW
9. This is intentional

2a. They already had this

They also gained
1. Better rails
2. More sensible innate passive
3. MP removal
4. fire glyphs
5. MP buff self/ally

I get what hes saying before fog could set up blockade fort that let you face tank bosses i did panda romb with fog as my tank and it was fine. 

And ye fogs could actually buff whole teams resi starting turn near block gave 60 resi. The new blockade is actually also nerfed versio of the old one its cheaper now but my tankernaut can now in live make 4 stronger blocks

That being said new tankernaut has lost its practicly immoratality but gained some necesery things for tank making him more efficent

And the 40k extra hp by surrrounding urself with blocks was maeby bit op since lower stasis boss cant even destroy 1 block unless it was the 6th turn that despwans all summons and mechs
3 -4
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Score : 3

 

cody5|2020-02-19 21:36:13
1, 5, 6, 7. The block is now stronger then the base block and you don't need to buff it manually with your AP, also it scales with pressure
2, 8. Yes, that's fair, but you can facetank now unlike before
3, 10. They never did?
4. This is intentional, they want to give classes less FoW
9. This is intentional

2a. They already had this

They also gained
1. Better rails
2. More sensible innate passive
3. MP removal
4. fire glyphs
5. MP buff self/ally

1,5,6,7. You're comparing block with lvls in pressure to base block now. In  almost every case it is weaker than before since you can't buff it anymore.You can't even summon it without waiting turns or it will get 1 shot and then you will have to wait 4 turns to summon it again. And how does this effect point 7? Multiple blocks is always better than 1.
10. Yes they could Armor plating passive gave res to allies near the block.
9. So the intentionally took away a thing they could do before with no compensation. How does that change my point?


2,8 How can they face tank unlike they could before? That is simply not true.
They got worse at tanking.
Ironclad is just the new name for fogginator they both give 100res except Ironclad costs 2 more ap.
The new High pressure now gives 42% block at lvl 6 with Limiter removal with and no res. The old high pressure gave 100res and 10%block at max lvl.
Armor plating passive gave fogger 80 res in lowest element.
Old fogger had 20%dmg reduction around blockade.

New fogger has 550 stacking armor spell.

Hp passive is worse than the current one if you have 3+allies.

That's it for tanking.
So in total old fogger had a potential 280 res and 10%block,20%dmg reduction on enemies, and more hp
New fogger has a potential for ,550stacking armor, 42% block, no res increase, and less hp, no dmg reduction on enemies.

Not even going to mention blockade because it is so much worse.
and you say this is better for face tanking.


2a. No they didn't. They had  a self stabilize in fogginator. They now have a stabilize that can be cast on any target,
1. How is this revelant to tanking?
2.Which passive? I already talked about the new passives.5 of them can be used for tanking and 3 of them suck.
3. I mentioned this.
4. What glyphs and how is this related to tanking?
5. Again how is this related to tanking?
2 -3
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Score : 4596

You might have missed it but there is an Active Spell that gives 100 res -1mp to fogger too, but I agree I would like some -final damage on monsters and a way to buff/interact more with blockade. The old way had the full turn on blocks which was boring but this version seems even less about using a blockade sad. I get chuncked with 80+ res on my fogger vs panda ghost mobs where before I was taking marginal damage.  (live- was with some enchants, beta- with perfect runes :| )
 

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This is about the Eliotrope and the debuffs given depending on portal usage.  you get -60 res and -20% dmg inflicted, to a max of 3 times, per time you use the portal for kiting. This seems too harsh of a nerf if it's on times used but not distance travelled/ range difference from portal to portal. Maybe if you travelled a distance/ range of 5 tiles through the portals you'd get 1 level of the debuff, 7 tiles travelled level 2 of the debuff 9+ level 3 etc. This method/ technique is more about kiting as not all portals are used for kiting, some are even pretty important like Sham moon.

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Score : 4596
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Score : 1806

I want to add on the overheat/pressure topic that disapearing if you end close/away is full of flaws. Some were already pointed out, like misplay, avoidance of aoe and more.

Those two buffs take a while to charge up and are quite vital for this new fog to be able to get it's damage to acceptable levels.

I want to add 3 scenarios where the loss of all stacks is bad:
1. Archetypes. Distance archetype asks you to be further than 4 cells away, which completely kills pressure unless you give boss final damage.
2. Small maps. There are tons of maps that are way too small for you to end away from enemies, which completely kills overheating.
3. Mobs Mechanics. Lastly there are a lot of specific mechanics that also mess this up. Hushquarter boss with it's glyph entering and Badgeroxxor with it's phases are two quick examples I could think off.

So, like someone else pointed out, there need to be some kind of change to it. Lower a stack if you mess up, allow both to exist at the same time so you don't have to kill the other are two possible fixes for this.
 

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Score : 5028

I mean you can just run amputated gears there, but yeah a bit of flexibility seems reasonable (maybe a spell that locks in your OverPressure for a turn?)

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